The Politics of House Viewing

donfers

landlord invites people to view house at 3pm.

15 people show up, 6 of them express an interest in renting the house.

How does the landlord decide who to let the house to?

Is it a case of the first person who offers the landlord the deposit and first month's rent or is it at the landlord's discretion in terms of who they like the look of etc.?

Really confusing - what would the landlord do if 6 people approached him/her offering to pay deposit/first month's rent? How can s/he decide in the space of a 1 hour viewing who should get it?

I am mystified as to how this process works and thus am asking you clever people to enlighten me

TimeToShine

Usually rings the successful viewer later on once everyone leaves. He/she will probably decide by the look of you after asking a few questions. Sad but true.

donfers

TimeToShine wrote: »

Usually rings the successful viewer later on once everyone leaves. He/she will probably decide by the look of you after asking a few questions. Sad but true.

Seriously??!!

Wow - that is sad

Didn't realise I had to wear my Sunday best to a house viewing, maybe bring some flowers and chocolates - what a sham.

I'll try to avoid these from now on.

elysium321

I've never been a landlord myself but I would have thought that they will pick whoever represents the lowest risk (of non-payment, damage to the property, anti-social behaviour, noise,...) and the highest longevity so they don't have to go through the process again. All that by reviewing the references (bank, previous landlords, employer) as well as their gut feel.

donfers

elysium321 wrote: »

I've never been a landlord myself but I would have thought that they will pick whoever represents the lowest risk (of non-payment, damage to the property, anti-social behaviour, noise,...) and the highest longevity so they don't have to go through the process again. All that by reviewing the references (bank, previous landlords, employer) as well as their gut feel.

Firstly I don't believe they have any right to request bank records nor have I ever been asked for them

Secondly in terms of judging who represents the lowesr risk of non-payment, damage to property, anti-social behaviour and noise - good luck determining that while someone walks around your house for 5 minutes asking a few questions.

The whole process strikes me as absurd and basically necessitates the landlord to be highly judgmental based on very little actual evidence.

A better way?

If I seem like a reasonably normal person, have solid references, am employed and am the first person to tell you that I'll stump up the deposit and first month's rent then bingo let's sign

TimeToShine

donfers wrote: »

Seriously??!!

Wow - that is sad

Didn't realise I had to wear my Sunday best to a house viewing, maybe bring some flowers and chocolates - what a sham.

I'll try to avoid these from now on.

I went for a house (as a student, granted) a few years ago and there was about 50 people there. The LL basically said to the room at large (mostly students) that "Sorry I won't be taking any of the students, professionals/families can stay so I can ask them a few questions". We stayed back pretending we were professionals, and there was about 10 others there, all with the deposit in hand willing to pay up. He pretty much brought us one by one into the kitchen for an interview of sorts, expecting references, proof of our profession etc.

Needless to say we didn't get it, and the house was snapped up by the next day. If you can bring references with you or make an effort to look "professional" then do it. It's very judgemental and pretty much discrimination but there's nothing we can do about it.

elysium321

I was asked for bank references for my first rented property. It was basically a letter from the bank confirming that I have been their client for such and such period and I am well able to pay a monthly rent of €xxx. No other details. I agree with you that they have no right to request any bank records. On the other hand it's solely their decision whether they rent the property to you or to someone else.

donfers wrote: »

If I seem like a reasonably normal person, have solid references, am employed and am the first person to tell you that I'll stump up the deposit and first month's rent then bingo let's sign

Which is exactly what I said. That was my experience anyway.

Some landlords prefer families over a group of students. Some prefer individuals over families with children. It really depends on the landlord.

Ann Landers

donfers wrote: »

landlord invites people to view house at 3pm.

15 people show up, 6 of them express an interest in renting the house.

How does the landlord decide who to let the house to?

References usually decide it, a person's profession might come into it (for example, a stable job would be favourable), offering more rent sometimes helps. A variety of things can decide it.

Certainly being the first won't be the deciding factor. I went to a viewing with my BF last week, approximately 10 people there. One girl beelined for the letting agent and says "I'll take it!" Cue sharp and slightly amused glances from everyone else in the place! :pac: The agent was like "aaahhhh, put your name and number on the list if you're interested". In fairness, she wasn't Irish so maybe her English wasn't perfect and she meant "I'm interested in taking it". No idea if she got it in the end.

elysium321 wrote: »

All that by reviewing the references (bank, previous landlords, employer) as well as their gut feel.

If a prospective landlord wanted to see my bank balance, I'd tell them where to go. :eek:

daelight

Has this recently started to happen again?! - Which town(s) is this common?

Ann Landers

daelight wrote: »

Has this recently started to happen again?! - Which town(s) is this common?

Dublin, reckon everywhere else is grand. All the jobs are here and there's an accommodation shortage. We need more high-density housing basically.

daelight

Amazing - I went through all that in 2006 in Dublin, most people were taking rooms without even see them. Can't believe its rearing its ugly head again. Good luck to all of those having to go through that charade.

Ann Landers

daelight wrote: »

Amazing - I went through all that in 2006 in Dublin, most people were taking rooms without even see them. Can't believe its rearing its ugly head again. Good luck to all of those having to go through that charade.

Another factor is that fewer people are buying now so staying in rentals longer. But in the six months, things have gone really crazy. My new landlord said that post 2008, it always took him a while to find new tenants but this time he was inundated with very interested parties.

Peregrinus

The landlord wants a good tenant who'll pay the rent punctually, treat the property will and preferably will stay for a while. Being first across the threshold waving your chequebook is not evidence of any of these things. The landlord is no more obliged to let to the first person who offers than the tenant is obliged to rent the first property he sees.

Its not easy for a landlord reliably to identify the tenant with the desirable characteristics. Still, he's certainly going to try, rather than adopt an arbitrary rule of selecting a tenant on the basis of a frankly irrelevant criterion. Employment status, bank references, etc are not perfect, but they're better than nothing.

The_Conductor

daelight wrote: »

Amazing - I went through all that in 2006 in Dublin, most people were taking rooms without even see them. Can't believe its rearing its ugly head again. Good luck to all of those having to go through that charade.

Dublin never had an abundance of supply- and despite being the area most in demand even during the boom- had the fewest completions per head of population- of anywhere in the country. We need high density housing essentially- with proper services and amenities. Ironically- the latest amendments to planning permissions for developments in the Dublin area which were mothballed- are to lower the densities (the most visual of these is Adamstown)- while concurrently, relaxing the need to provide services and amenities to the developments.

Its a cluster****- the lack of a central planning authority being the major issue.

No Pants

Ann Landers wrote: »

a stable job would be favourable

What if you've never worked in a stable?

murphaph

donfers wrote: »

If I seem like a reasonably normal person, have solid references, am employed and am the first person to tell you that I'll stump up the deposit and first month's rent then bingo let's sign

What if the next guy 2 minutes after you has all that and happens to be a civil servant (more or less job for life). Who would you offer the place to if you had to make the decision?

Rachiee

Another thing that's happened it's rents are gone up so much that landlords are evicting people on lower rents/ or rent allowance because they know they can get more with a new tenant. I've recently heard of people offering first months rent and deposit up front at viewings and agreeing to pay over the asking price even starting a bidding war with other perspective tenants on a rental!! It's crazy in Dublin at the mo

The_Conductor

murphaph wrote: »

What if the next guy 2 minutes after you has all that and happens to be a civil servant (more or less job for life). Who would you offer the place to if you had to make the decision?

Don't offer it to the civil servant- god only knows what salary he'll be on after the next budget- civil servants and social welfare recipients- need not apply, as neither have a predictable income- and both are budget targets. We're going to cut another 2 billion from the budget in October- its politically expedient to target civil servants- and social welfare recipients- to pay for small income tax adjustments for PRSI employees.

The_Conductor

No Pants wrote: »

What if you've never worked in a stable?

Quit horsing around.......:p

Mrs OBumble

Ann Landers wrote: »

If a prospective landlord wanted to see my bank balance, I'd tell them where to go. :eek:

Ya, and they'd then tell you where to go, and call up the next person on the list.

murphaph

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya, and they'd then tell you where to go, and call up the next person on the list.

Yup. As the state has singly failed to deliver some protection for landlords from delinquent tenants (and yes, it has also failed to provide tenants adequate protection from delinquent landlords, but the delinquent tenant holds much stringer cards: an entire property) so landlords are using the squeeze on rentals to change the rules a bit in their favour: bank statements will be asked for as there is no credit scoring system. In Germany no LL will rent to anyone without seeing their credit rating which is a standard document available at nominal cost (free once every 12 months) with a simple percentage score on it. LLs want to see 97%+. If a newcomer to Germany has no rating yet, they generally offer their work contract and/or bank statements to prove they have the funds to actually pay for what the LL is handing to them.

BeatNikDub

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya, and they'd then tell you where to go, and call up the next person on the list.

Which they are entitled to do, and which would be mutually beneficial. I would prefer deal with a different landlord myself in that case also (ie one that wasn't demanding personal financial documents after all else has been given).
I have been renting on and off for almost 15 years and track record should speak for itself.

murphaph

BeatNikDub wrote: »

Which they are entitled to do, and which would be mutually beneficial. I would prefer deal with a different landlord myself in that case also (ie one that wasn't demanding personal financial documents after all else has been given).
I have been renting on and off for almost 15 years and track record should speak for itself.

If you go for a 1k bank loan they'll ask to see this stuff. No reason a LL who is about to hand over legal control of an asset worth hundreds of thousands shouldn't see the same information really.

Ann Landers

Rachiee wrote: »

Another thing that's happened it's rents are gone up so much that landlords are evicting people on lower rents/ or rent allowance because they know they can get more with a new tenant. I've recently heard of people offering first months rent and deposit up front at viewings and agreeing to pay over the asking price even starting a bidding war with other perspective tenants on a rental!! It's crazy in Dublin at the mo

We pipped someone else to the post recently by offering more rent. Unfair maybe, but we needed somewhere to live.

Ann Landers

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya, and they'd then tell you where to go, and call up the next person on the list.

And I'd be fine with that. Unless every single landlord starts asking for bank balance info, and so far that's nowhere near happening from my experience, even in Dublin. So, yup, telling them where to go would be what I would happily do. :cool:

BeatNikDub wrote: »

Which they are entitled to do, and which would be mutually beneficial. I would prefer deal with a different landlord myself in that case also (ie one that wasn't demanding personal financial documents after all else has been given).

+1

I'd have no interest in renting a property from such a person.

What would landlords do if absolutely everyone refuses to give them that documentation? Back to the drawing board, I guess.

Potatoeman

murphaph wrote: »

If you go for a 1k bank loan they'll ask to see this stuff. No reason a LL who is about to hand over legal control of an asset worth hundreds of thousands shouldn't see the same information really.

Banks are bound by compliance to protect the information they receive. Its tightly controlled even within the bank.

OldNotWIse

People have now started turning up with more money and I imagne that appeals to LL too.

Ann Landers

OldNotWIse wrote: »

People have now started turning up with more money and I imagne that appeals to LL too.

Well, I guess that's the market finding its rate, unfortunately.

OldNotWIse

Ann Landers wrote: »

Well, I guess that's the market finding its rate, unfortunately.

Indeed. Going back to Mammy's (rather give money to her than LL until I can buy). Now....about the pets...

Zulu

As a LL i set up all viewing on the same day. I give every one a 15 mins slot. I show them about, as for references, talk them through what will happen next. I ask them questions about employment, what they like to do etc.. I have 15 mins to try and suss them out. (aside: I'm trying to evaluate if I can trust them with the only asset I have for the mortgage that is crippling my family.) I take notes, and move on to the next person/people.

At the end of the process, I think back to who i liked the most. I offer it to them and if they take it, I text everyone else back to say "sorry, thanks, and good luck".

It's not ideal, but thats all we have.

The last tenants I gave it to offered didn't offer me the most, and I took a risk that they mightn't be able afford it. But you know what, they seemed like lovely people. I had an instant feeling about them. I was glad to rent to them, and thankfully we get on great.

I'm sorry, but you wouldn't believe how some tenants act. Showing up really late (like an hour late), walking around with a sense of entitlement. Picking an argument about rent relief (when you've CLEARLY stated NO RENT RELIEFAllowence). Some people are mad.

Show up on time. Dress appropriately. Act appropriately. Like it or not, it's essentially an interview.

Potatoeman

Zulu wrote: »

As a LL i set up all viewing on the same day. I give every one a 15 mins slot. I show them about, as for references, talk them through what will happen next. I ask them questions about employment, what they like to do etc.. I have 15 mins to try and suss them out. (aside: I'm trying to evaluate if I can trust them with the only asset I have for the mortgage that is crippling my family.) I take notes, and move on to the next person/people.

At the end of the process, I think back to who i liked the most. I offer it to them and if they take it, I text everyone else back to say "sorry, thanks, and good luck".

It's not ideal, but thats all we have.

The last tenants I gave it to offered didn't offer me the most, and I took a risk that they mightn't be able afford it. But you know what, they seemed like lovely people. I had an instant feeling about them. I was glad to rent to them, and thankfully we get on great.

I'm sorry, but you wouldn't believe how some tenants act. Showing up really late (like an hour late), walking around with a sense of entitlement. Picking an argument about rent relief (when you've CLEARLY stated NO RENT RELIEF). Some people are mad.

Show up on time. Dress appropriately. Act appropriately. Like it or not, it's essentially an interview.

No rent relief, are you not declaring?

Zulu

Potatoeman wrote: »

No rent relief, are you not declaring?

:rolleyes: How pathetic. How do you figure that I'm not declaring Potatoeman? Other than really, really, childish aspersions?

I pay my tax. I register my tenants with the PRTB. And I choose who rents my property.

OldNotWIse

Zulu wrote: »

:rolleyes: How pathetic. How do you figure that I'm not declaring Potatoeman? Other than really, really, childish aspersions?

I pay my tax. I register my tenants with the PRTB. And I choose who rents my property.

So what's your reasoning for refusing RA? I dont think the question is remotely pathetic. From my own experience, I asked our LL for RSI number for rent relief form and was told "oh that wont be possible - thats why we keep the rent so low"...wink wink nudge nuge

Potatoeman

Zulu wrote: »

:rolleyes: How pathetic. How do you figure that I'm not declaring Potatoeman? Other than really, really, childish aspersions?

I pay my tax. I register my tenants with the PRTB. And I choose who rents my property.

Thats the only reason I can think of for not taking RR are you talking about RA. You are kind of tuochie.

johnnyskeleton

murphaph wrote: »

If you go for a 1k bank loan they'll ask to see this stuff. No reason a LL who is about to hand over legal control of an asset worth hundreds of thousands shouldn't see the same information really.

If you apply for a loan that you can easily afford the bank will say yes, no problem, let us know if you want some more. Show it to a landlord and he will suddenly realise that he forgot to add on the €100 surcharge to your rent!

murphaph

Potatoeman wrote: »

Banks are bound by compliance to protect the information they receive. Its tightly controlled even within the bank.

Last time I opened a bank account in Ireland I realised half an hour after leaving the branch that my passport and statements from previous bank hadn't been handed bck to me in the envelope. I went back and all the stuff was sitting on top of a photocopier in the public office.

harpsman

donfers wrote: »

Firstly I don't believe they have any right to request bank records nor have I ever been asked for them

Secondly in terms of judging who represents the lowesr risk of non-payment, damage to property, anti-social behaviour and noise - good luck determining that while someone walks around your house for 5 minutes asking a few questions.

The whole process strikes me as absurd and basically necessitates the landlord to be highly judgmental based on very little actual evidence.

A better way?

If I seem like a reasonably normal person, have solid references, am employed and am the first person to tell you that I'll stump up the deposit and first month's rent then bingo let's sign

By the same token should you have to rent the first appartment you see or do you get to be choosy? im being a little flippant, but why shouldnt the landlord get to choose who he rents to?

harpsman

The_Conductor wrote: »

Don't offer it to the civil servant- god only knows what salary he'll be on after the next budget- civil servants and social welfare recipients- need not apply, as neither have a predictable income- and both are budget targets. We're going to cut another 2 billion from the budget in October- its politically expedient to target civil servants- and social welfare recipients- to pay for small income tax adjustments for PRSI employees.

I would say its politically expedient not to target those 2 groups. Teyve got off pretty lightly.

FrStone

harpsman wrote: »

I would say its politically expedient not to target those 2 groups. Teyve got off pretty lightly.

As if! However, we are going off topic.

My parents rent a house in rural Cork. The last time we held viewings was early 2010.

Basically, we gave everyone who was interested a viewing on their own and had a chat with them. We then decided who to pick based on what type of person they looked like, their employment (professional is best), what sort of family unit they were. We didn't really want young families or groups of young adults.

In the end we picked a lovely man in his forties who was quite nice, down to earth and very helpful. He pays his rent on time every month and my father even goes for a pint with him when he is handing it over.

There were some people we turned away straight away - those who turned up wondering would we accept rent allowance even though we stated on daft that we would not be accepting it. Another person asking would we accept pets, even though again we stated we would not.

Another woman was just quite bossy, demanding this that and the other, thinking that she would be the only one who would be interested in renting "in this climate", she tried to negotiate a lower rate of rent. She was quite shocked when we rang her up and said we weren't interested in having her as a tenant.

The current tenant is moving out of the country in a few months so we will be advertising again and using the same guidelines.

Zulu

OldNotWIse wrote: »

So what's your reasoning for refusing RA? I dont think the question is remotely pathetic.

It is a childish and ignorant conclusion to jump to. My reasoning I've explained here plenty of times. Simply put, I dont want to deal with a 3rd party, I want rent to be paid in advance not arrears, and I don't want to rent to someone who can't afford it (in case the government choose to cut the allowance).

From my own experience, I asked our LL for RSI number for rent relief form and was told "oh that wont be possible - thats why we keep the rent so low"...wink wink nudge nuge

Why did you rent from them so? Your landlord does not equate to every landlord.

Potatoeman wrote: »

Thats the only reason I can think of for not taking RR are you talking about RA. You are kind of tuochie.

Well I just gave you three more. And if you put your mind to it (as opposed to jumping to conclusions), I'm sure you'll think of some more. I'm "touchy" because I pay enough tax without being accused of tax evasion - to assume I'd dodge tax (without ever knowing me) is pretty rude; what do you expect? I came on here an gave an honest answer to which you choose to accuse me of criminal activity.

Axwell

Zulu wrote: »

It is a childish and ignorant conclusion to jump to. My reasoning I've explained here plenty of times. Simply put, I dont want to deal with a 3rd party, I want rent to be paid in advance not arrears, and I don't want to rent to someone who can't afford it (in case the government choose to cut the allowance).

The two of you are talking about 2 separate things..

You stated no RENT RELIEF...you meant no Rent Allowance it seems i.e. where the council pays an amount of the tenants rent.

Rent relief is the claim back given in tax refunds to people who pay rent on accommodation.

Zulu

Axwell wrote: »

The two of you are talking about 2 separate things..

You stated no RENT RELIEF...you meant no Rent Allowance it seems i.e. where the council pays an amount of the tenants rent.

Rent relief is the claim back given in tax refunds to people who pay rent on accommodation.

Apologies - you are correct. Rent Allowance. Thanks for clarifying Axwell.

TheBandicoot

In fairness I've never even heard of rent relief, I thought it was a historical thing and didn't apply anymore. Can you really get a few hundred euro in tax credit this very year? Had no idea!

Citizenpain

TheBandicoot wrote: »

In fairness I've never even heard of rent relief, I thought it was a historical thing and didn't apply anymore. Can you really get a few hundred euro in tax credit this very year? Had no idea!

it's almost gone....

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html

TheBandicoot

Citizenpain wrote: »

it's almost gone....

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html

That's what I mean though:

No credit is due to individuals who began renting after 7 December 2010.

So it doesn't actually exist unless you started renting somewhere 4 years ago and are still there? So for all intents and purposes, to the average person it is not available.

Santa Cruz

OldNotWIse wrote: »

So what's your reasoning for refusing RA? I dont think the question is remotely pathetic. From my own experience, I asked our LL for RSI number for rent relief form and was told "oh that wont be possible - thats why we keep the rent so low"...wink wink nudge nuge

I advertise, take five calls, ask a bit about each background. Then arrange a viewing, they give me details of place of employment and I tell them that I will let them know the next day. A quick call to HR to see if they are working there.
If happy with the answers I will make a decision on who I think will be the best.

I do everything by the book. I don't take Rent allowance because I don't need to and I have heard too many true stories about people on rent allowance wrecking properties, not paying up, fighting with neighbours etc.
Not all on rent allowance are troublemakers but it's not worth the risk

baldbear

I recently found a 1 bed in Dublin after 3 weeks viewing. Any place that was around the 850-950 mark had alot of others viewing. I found it a pain in the arse looking around a place with other people tripping over your feet.

The landlord we have now wanted references and a chat to make sure we are decent tenants and rang our refernece/work to check us out.

Happy hunting!

dRNk SAnTA

The girlfriend and I were looking to rent somewhere late last year. It took almost 2 months to find the right spot - there are some atrocious properties out there.

The most worrying experience was viewing a small house on Harty Place, Dublin 8. The letting agent expected all interested parties to transfer full deposit (equal to 1 month rent) to the landlord's account, and then all unsuccessful parties would have the money returned.

"How else would we know people are serious" we were told. I think the expression on my face told her what I thought of that proposal.

Ann Landers

murphaph wrote: »

bank statements will be asked for as there is no credit scoring system.

In my experience, that's not happening currently in general, even in Dublin.

The_Conductor

Ann Landers wrote: »

In my experience, that's not happening currently in general, even in Dublin.

Its quite hit and miss- and really depends on the landlord- from annecdotal evidence it would appear to be more common in areas where there might be a higher than normal student population- as a mechanism for rooting out students aspiring to rent a house and house share.

Its far from unusual though- and becoming more and more popular by the day.

drumswan

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its far from unusual though- and becoming more and more popular by the day.

Have you got an actual source on this?