Speeding fines (Wexford)

Spudy67

Hope someone can enlighten me on this subject. When you get a speeding fine, does the car/van that clocks you speeding have to be visible or marked? My wife has got caught ten kms over the limit twice since Christmas and she's never had anything like it since she started driving nearly ten years ago. And btw in not condoning speeding of any kind but annoys me because after the first fine we thought we were extra careful. The road in question is the ballyedmond to gorey road. Must have ten different speed limits within a small stretch of road.

Thanks

whomitconcerns

no it doesnt have to be...sorry!

whomitconcerns

Co Wexford speed cameras including the one you reference above
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/localnotes/the-speed-enforcement-zones-identified-in-co-wexford-27335066.html

"R741 Wells. The second zone on the R741 will be located at Wells, on the Wexford side of Ballyedmond. This is a well known speed trap, and motorists are regularly fined for speeding in the 80 km/h section of road."

Spudy67

whomitconcerns wrote: »

no it doesnt have to be...sorry!

Ah b****k's. Thanks

bear1

I have read that they are meant to be seen, I could be wrong but I don't think they are allowed to hide to catch you.

Spudy67

bear1 wrote: »

I have read that they are meant to be seen, I could be wrong but I don't think they are allowed to hide to catch you.

That's exactly what I thought. Two more points. Was thinking about goin into garda station and questioning it but the dopes would just love that.

djimi

Whether they are allowed to hide or not, I doubt there is any way to prove that they couldnt be seen.

Most speed vans I have encountered will be sitting pretty much out in the open anyway as they need to be a decent field of vision.

No Pants

Private (GoSafe) vans have to be marked. Garda vans do not.

Spudy67

djimi wrote: »

Whether they are allowed to hide or not, I doubt there is any way to prove that they couldnt be seen.

Most speed vans I have encountered will be sitting pretty much out in the open anyway as they need to be a decent field of vision.

They must of been hiding behind a wall or something because after the first stop we were like hawks looking for them and sticking by the limits (or so we thought).

Mycroft H

Got caught near doing the same speed over the limit. Garda with a hairdryer. Do you think he was standing in the open with a high vis jacket? No; behind a bush in his navy jacket.

ironclaw

A Garda van, marked or unmarked can issue a fine for speeding on any road in the country. They are generally white D reg Ford Transits.


A GoSafe, marked van, must be in a designated GoSafe zone to issue a fine.

A GoSafe, unmarked van, may appear on any road in the country but cannot issue a fine.

GoSafe are generally country reg (KY, KK) Renault and Ford vans. They have appeared in all colours including White, Red, Blue and Green. The markings on the rear of the van are, in my opinion, deliberately as non-reflective as they can get away with.

Bogger77

get your speedo adjusted so it's reading at least 10km per hour over the actual, might reduce the chances of another ticket.

Just don't tell the wife

gutteruu

I'm pretty sure I passed that exact van just on the bridge coming into wexford town twice last week. I could just about make out a lens through tinted windows. White van, vent on roof, no markings, slide out step under side door, dublin reg.

So no markings means instead of slowing thousands of people down, they just want to catch and fine a tiny few. I really don't understand it. If you want to slow people down have disco lights and lasers hanging off them. People will notice and slow down more.

larchill

Its just a bloody revenue collection exercise

Wheelnut

Bogger77 wrote: »

get your speedo adjusted so it's reading at least 10km per hour over the actual, might reduce the chances of another ticket.

Just don't tell the wife

The speed read-out on the sat-nav should be accurate, at least I hope it is because that's what I use!

I don't think you can adjust a speedo but you can get the same effect with non standard tyres. If the car is fitted with non standard tyres (or wheels) it could be part of the OP's problem.

BTW: I find that you can drive a little faster than shown on the speedo when using the sat-nav. That's because auto makers build in a safety margin but the sat-nav is accurate.

oldyouth

I would see the white unmarked van around Wexford Town as much as the regular ones and it tends to be in less predictable locations.

djimi

gutteruu wrote: »

So no markings means instead of slowing thousands of people down, they just want to catch and fine a tiny few. I really don't understand it. If you want to slow people down have disco lights and lasers hanging off them. People will notice and slow down more.

I thought at this stage most people in Ireland just hit the brakes when they see a van (any van!) parked at the side of the road?!!

ironclaw

djimi wrote: »

I thought at this stage most people in Ireland just hit the brakes when they see a van (any van!) parked at the side of the road?!!

I think speed vans go to categorically prove that most people have absolutely no idea whats going on around them. Its rare, if ever, that I don't spot one hunfreds of metres in advance. With a little wits, you can guess where they are going to be. 'Ah, the limit has changed, GoSafe zone and a blind corner. I wonder where they could be?'

I kinda half pride myself on knowing every single car around me, in front and that I have past. Its basic situational awareness.

djimi

ironclaw wrote: »

I think speed vans go to categorically prove that most people have absolutely no idea whats going on around them. Its rare, if ever, that I don't spot one hunfreds of metres in advance. With a little wits, you can guess where they are going to be. 'Ah, the limit has changed, GoSafe zone and a blind corner. I wonder where they could be?'

Its not even like they are parked in random locations; I know exactly where the vans might be in my area, and I dont think I have ever seen one not parked in its usual location.

maurz

recieved a speeding fine last friday 25th april, doin 63 in a 50 mile zone. so fair enough must pay up in 28 days ....or so I thought......on Weds 30th I recieved a letter from the gardai stating there was a "systems error" and so no further action was required on my part regarding this fine. has anyone ever heard of this "systems error" before. the letter does not go in to detail bout this error. Glad to have "got away with it/no payment" but curious to know what was wrong.

Maurz

allthedoyles

larchill wrote: »

Its just a bloody revenue collection exercise

Its not ...............Speed kills and I don't need to prove this to anyone .

readytosnap

allthedoyles wrote: »

Its not ...............Speed kills and I don't need to prove this to anyone .

It's for revenue purposes, yeah speed kills and that van with the flashing blue lights you can see a mile away will slow everyone down, so they wont be speeding and killing, the sneaky van with no markings and parked round a bend or hidden in a lay-by or the guard hiding behind the bush, that is strictly about revenue no matter what anyone tells you.

corktina

nonsense. The Gards have no interest in raising revenue even if the Govt have. THat you don't know where the next van will be is the reason you hold down your speed

ironclaw

corktina wrote: »

nonsense. The Gards have no interest in raising revenue even if the Govt have. THat you don't know where the next van will be is the reason you hold down your speed

I don't know corktina. In any job, performance is measured and needs to be evaluated. If I was a meter reader for the ESB, I'd have my quota of meters to read in a day, week and month. If I didn't consistently reach that quota, I'd be asked why.

If I was on patrol for say 200 hours per month as a Traffic Corp Garda and pulled no one, there would be questions raised as road offences are extremely common compared to other offences.

Whilst there may not be written or official quotas, I'd say you'd be on the fast track to dismissal if your 'catch' quota was below the country average.

corktina

I didn't say they don't have a quota, I said it was about enforcing the Law, not revenue generation.

I saw a program on tv last night which featured camera cars in the UK. Simple hatchback parked strategically with a camera on the roof, sending tickets out (in this example) to people turning right on a no right turn. It'll happen here next. The no right turn is there for a reason and it's right it should be enforced.I don't think it's primarily revenue collecting


edit....i'm not sure it improves the Quality of Life though

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

nonsense. The Gards have no interest in raising revenue even if the Govt have. THat you don't know where the next van will be is the reason you hold down your speed

Pretty much agree, Gards are more interested in the deli counter of the local Spar or Centra most of the time.
We should be glad we don't live in Austria.
Speedcameras concealed in bins, rear-facing, so you can't see them until it's too late, cops hiding in bushes and my favourite:
My parents where coming out of a village, limit goes from 50 to 60 to 100.
After a short stretch of road, limit goes from 100 down to 60 and back up to 100 for no apparent reason.
Cop with radar gun in hiding behind a bush and he radios reg and speed to his colleagues down the road, who are in a courtyard.
Cop at the courtyard signals people to turn into the car park, where there is a dozen or so coppers just going from car to car, handing out on-the-spot fines.
As in, pay up right now, or you're going nowhere.
Copper told my dad "we clocked you at 70!"
My dad "But I'm only 64!"

corktina

ah well you know what they say "All Coppers are " don't you! It's a fact of life that jobs such as Traffic Corps and Wardens /clampers/bailiffs etc do attract a percentage of bully-boys who like to push people around. Hopefully it is kept to a minimum , but it's inevitable the odd one will slip through

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

ah well you know what they say "All Coppers are " don't you! It's a fact of life that jobs such as Traffic Corps and Wardens /clampers/bailiffs etc do attract a percentage of bully-boys who like to push people around. Hopefully it is kept to a minimum , but it's inevitable the odd one will slip through

I think it can be said with a certain degree of certainty that these kind of jobs do not attract shy, retiring people who are mostly polite and friendly. :P
You need to have a robust personality and a thick hide, I certainly wouldn't want to do it.

Spudy67

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Pretty much agree, Gards are more interested in the deli counter of the local Spar or Centra most of the time.
We should be glad we don't live in Austria.
Speedcameras concealed in bins, rear-facing, so you can't see them until it's too late, cops hiding in bushes and my favourite:
My parents where coming out of a village, limit goes from 50 to 60 to 100.
After a short stretch of road, limit goes from 100 down to 60 and back up to 100 for no apparent reason.
Cop with radar gun in hiding behind a bush and he radios reg and speed to his colleagues down the road, who are in a courtyard.
Cop at the courtyard signals people to turn into the car park, where there is a dozen or so coppers just going from car to car, handing out on-the-spot fines.
As in, pay up right now, or you're going nowhere.
Copper told my dad "we clocked you at 70!"
My dad "But I'm only 64!"

Love the last bit. :-)

But it's so true when people say there's always someone, in this case the Austrians, that are worse off than you. (in terms of policing)

Cantona's Collars

allthedoyles wrote: »

Its not ...............Speed kills and I don't need to prove this to anyone .

Explain as to why go safe vans are parked outside the VEC in Enniscorthy at a 50kph zone,it's shooting fish in a barrel there.Further on where the road is more dangerous you can tear along if you so desire as you know a van will never be around even if it's a designated go safe zone.

They also park outside the old Davis' Mill where it's literally impossible to go faster than 40kph due to the layout of the road.

The cops were told from on high to target "revenue based" convictions,so basically they are collecting fines to pay their wages.

djimi

corktina wrote: »

nonsense. The Gards have no interest in raising revenue even if the Govt have. THat you don't know where the next van will be is the reason you hold down your speed

I dont really agree with this to be honest. When these vans first came on the scene the Gardai made a big song and dance about putting them in places where accidents have happened, as if to suggest that they are there as a safety measure. So far all I have seen from these vans is that they park in the easiest places to catch people speeding (usually just after a speed limit change). For example, one parks on the road outside of my house, where the limit changes from 80 to 50. Now if I sat there for a month and watched an endless stream of cars drive past that van at twice the speed limit even, I can absolutely guarantee you there would not be a single accident; its about as safe a stretch of road as you are ever likely to find, so nobody will ever convince me that the van parking there is anything other than revenue generating/quota boosting. This is just one such example; I dont think I can think of a single example of seeing a van parked somewhere where I thought to myself its good to see them trying to slow people down on this stretch of road. Usually its a case of wondering what the hell the van is doing on road A when its road B that really needs to enforcement of the speed limits.

I have no problem with speed vans; ultimately if you break the law then you cant complain about getting caught, regardless of the circumstances. However, I would have a lot more respect for the Gardai if they just told it like it is and dropped this ridiculous charade about "safety vans", because its actually insulting to our intelligence for them to try and suggest that safety is their number one concern when they choose the locations of these vans.

djimi

zerks wrote: »

They also park outside the old Davis' Mill where it's literally impossible to go faster than 40kph due to the layout of the road.

One that I have never understood is the van that regularly parks outside the old Red House beside Toughers in Newbridge. It parks just off a roundabout, facing into the roundabout, where the cars that are approaching it are just coming off a roundabout, and the cars that are driving away from it cannot be seen because the roundabout blocks the view of the far side of the road. I have no idea what they are hoping to catch :pac:

No Pants

The view that this is only a revenue raising exercise was not helped by the recent Garda whistleblower revelations and the focus that was placed by the media on the potential revenue loss to the state.

pa990

zerks wrote: »

.

The cops were told from on high to target "revenue based" convictions,so basically they are collecting fines to pay their wages.

WOW


Do you have a source that that Scoop, if so you should get that on the front page of every newspaper

pa990

No Pants wrote: »

The view that this is only a revenue raising exercise was not helped by the recent Garda whistleblower revelations and the focus that was placed by the media on the potential revenue loss to the state.

But how was it raising revenue by/for the Garda, when they were cancelling tickets left right and center.

Doesn't make for a good business model

corktina

they park where they are contracted to park and where it has been surveyed and passed as a safe place to park. Thus in many cases they aren't parked at the spot that a fatac took place, but somewhere near it that is likely not to be a danger spot at all. The zone near Mallow Racecourse is a case in point...everyone one knows it's by the petrol station that the accidents have happened, but there's no where to park as that is the only narrow bit, so they park on the wide bit beyond with the big hard shoulders.

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

they park where they are contracted to park and where it has been surveyed and passed as a safe place to park. Thus in many cases they aren't parked at the spot that a fatac took place, but somewhere near it that is likely not to be a danger spot at all. The zone near Mallow Racecourse is a case in point...everyone one knows it's by the petrol station that the accidents have happened, but there's no where to park as that is the only narrow bit, so they park on the wide bit beyond with the big hard shoulders.

I love the argument though.
Speed cams can't park on accident black spots because It's not safe. LMAO.

corktina

does make it all a bit ridiculous. Fixed cameras, even with no film in, would do the job better and could be bang on the spot in question

No Pants

pa990 wrote: »

But how was it raising revenue by/for the Garda, when they were cancelling tickets left right and center.

Doesn't make for a good business model

The media kept going on about the potential revenue loss to the state, not the safety aspects.

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

does make it all a bit ridiculous. Fixed cameras, even with no film in, would do the job better and could be bang on the spot in question

They'd be digital these days I guess.

corktina

the situation in the UK is that only some of the boxes have camera equipment in them and it's moved around, but yes, digital I would hope

ironclaw

I think people are kinda taking the whole 'where accidents happen' a little too literally. Obviously on a bad road you can't smack a camera on the exact site of an accident. I'm probably one of the most vocal against these systems but I have no issue in them appearing anywhere along a bad or troublesome road. My issues is a lot of the roads in questions are not bad or remotely dangerous. Outbound at the Castleknock / Navan road is a prime example. Arrow straight 80km/h road.

ABC101

A few weeks ago I was driving from the Walkinstown roundabout along the R112, St Peters Road ( I think) heading in the direction of Templeogue.

It's a fairly long stretch of straight road, with houses either side. Every so often there are pedestrian traffic lights.

About mid way along there are shops on the left, and of course outside the shops there are cars parked.

Right at the end of the line of parked cars was a unmarked speed detector van.

It would be hard to notice, as only its windows were prominent above the line of parked cars.

Of course I was driving legally, so no worries.. but it was a good one... as drivers would be concentrating on the pedestrian lights and forget to check out the parked van. Effectively any van with windows on the back is suspicious.

I would agree that the revenue does come in handy for the authorities.. and if everybody chose to drive 5 kph under all the limits.. there would be big pressure to have all current speed limits reduced by 5 Kph. So a 50 zone would become 45 kph etc.

They will just move the goal posts when it suits them.

doctorneeded

Can't believe this country has let them in so meekly.

The UK is removing a lot of them now due to the fact that it is common knowledge that they are revenue generators.


Oh and there are privately contracted companies doing this as well as state enforced cameras.

john47

Suppose she will just have to slow down.

DanWall

Some points why our system is flawed.

1/ If you think they have made a mistake and challenge them on it, you get twice the fine and twice the penalty points if you cannot prove it. That is not justice.
2/ Unless you have a cruise control in your car your speed is bound to drift up and down depending how many times you look at your speedo, ( difference between 50 and 60 km/ph is very small) the new average system being introduced in the UK is much more fair system.
3/ In the UK you do not need constant reminders of the speed limit because the type of road determines it.
Why is it that in the UK dual carriage ways and motorways are 70 mph , but in Ireland Dual carriage ways are 63mph and some motorways are 63mph (100kmh)?

ironclaw

DanWall wrote: »

2/ Unless you have a cruise control in your car your speed is bound to drift up and down depending how many times you look at your speedo, ( difference between 50 and 60 km/ph is very small) the new average system being introduced in the UK is much more fair system.

The difference between 50 and 60 is 10km/h. If you can't keep your car bang on, then you shouldn't be driving

And average doesn't matter. If you average 50km/h over say a 1km section, to be 'done' for speeding, you have to spend at least 50% of that time above the speed limit. Instant or average is the same thing. There is no advantage to average speed limit cameras other than causing people to slow down for a longer period of time that a single van.

pablo128

allthedoyles wrote: »

Its not ...............Speed kills and I don't need to prove this to anyone .

These vans while well intentioned, are unable to catch Paddy who's just been fcuked out of the local nightclub and is weaving his way home manky drunk. Once he's not speeding, well he won't suffer any consequence.

zerks wrote: »

Explain as to why go safe vans are parked outside the VEC in Enniscorthy at a 50kph zone,it's shooting fish in a barrel there.Further on where the road is more dangerous you can tear along if you so desire as you know a van will never be around even if it's a designated go safe zone.

Now I'm not a fan of camera vans at all, but if they are to be used anywhere, surely one of the first places you'd pick is outside a school?

dr.fuzzenstein

DanWall wrote: »

Some points why our system is flawed.

1/ If you think they have made a mistake and challenge them on it, you get twice the fine and twice the penalty points if you cannot prove it. That is not justice.
2/ Unless you have a cruise control in your car your speed is bound to drift up and down depending how many times you look at your speedo, ( difference between 50 and 60 km/ph is very small) the new average system being introduced in the UK is much more fair system.
3/ In the UK you do not need constant reminders of the speed limit because the type of road determines it.
Why is it that in the UK dual carriage ways and motorways are 70 mph , but in Ireland Dual carriage ways are 63mph and some motorways are 63mph (100kmh)?

Yeah, I think this is really dodgy, I am certain that would not hold up when challenged.
It's going in the direction of denying the accused due process.
It's just one of those "strong man beating his chest" laws, that politicians throw out there every so often for vote gathering purposes.
Everyone should have a right to appeal against a conviction without fear of landing himself in even bigger sh*t.
It's one of those things the Irish gubberment know exactly is wrong, but due to the financial barriers that are put up against ordinary people to challenge the might of the state, they know it will be a long time before someone brings this to the highest court, who will find in favour of the state (as it would), before bringing it to Europe, who will see it for what it is, something some minister scraped off the sole of his shoe and decided to stick it in a lawbook.

pablo128

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yeah, I think this is really dodgy, I am certain that would not hold up when challenged.
It's going in the direction of denying the accused due process.
It's just one of those "strong man beating his chest" laws, that politicians throw out there every so often for vote gathering purposes.
Everyone should have a right to appeal against a conviction without fear of landing himself in even bigger sh*t.
It's one of those things the Irish gubberment know exactly is wrong, but due to the financial barriers that are put up against ordinary people to challenge the might of the state, they know it will be a long time before someone brings this to the highest court, who will find in favour of the state (as it would), before bringing it to Europe, who will see it for what it is, something some minister scraped off the sole of his shoe and decided to stick it in a lawbook.

My understanding of it is that the penalty for speeding is 4 points, but if you admit your guilt and pay the fine, you only get 2 points. If you fight it and lose, you get all 4.

Snake

Ah for god sake if you don't speed you don't need to worry about the vans.