Drink Driving charge

my_self · 08-04-2014 7:05pm #1

Hi,

A close friend of mine recently got caught drink driving. He was well over the limit. He knows he was completely in the wrong and was prepared to accept the consequences. He had a quick Google and read that he should have a barrister represent him in court, even if pleading guilty.

However, he rang one particular barrister that told him, he might be able to get him of on a technicality. He, was given too prices one for pleading guilty and a much higher price for fighting the case. The barrister has also convinced him that it's worth a shot.

I'm a little skeptical that the barrister might be just looking for easy money. Is the case worth fighting? Or is the barrister just looking for business?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Pro Hoc Vice · 08-04-2014 7:09pm

my_self wrote: »

Hi,

A close friend of mine recently got caught drink driving. He was well over the limit. He knows he was completely in the wrong and was prepared to accept the consequences. He had a quick Google and read that he should have a barrister represent him in court, even if pleading guilty.

However, he rang one particular barrister that told him, he might be able to get him of on a technicality. He, was given too prices one for pleading guilty and a much higher price for fighting the case. The barrister has also convinced him that it's worth a shot.

I'm a little skeptical that the barrister might be just looking for easy money. Is the case worth fighting? Or is the barrister just looking for business?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

I assume you mean solicitor, barristers do not deal directly with the general public and a barrister can not act in such a matter unless instructed by a solicitor. A large % of such cases are won on a pure legal argument with a number of recent SC decisions causing much issues with cases.

tomdempsey200 · 08-04-2014 7:09pm

it will depend on what the technicality is

Hunter Mahan · 08-04-2014 7:13pm

If he was pleading guilty then an experienced solicitor should suffice, especially one familiar with that particular court or Judge.

Has your friend met with this barrister or was it just a phone call? How can he give you a good idea or not if he is not aware of all the facts surrounding your case?

Colash · 08-04-2014 7:15pm

How far over the limit was your friend and what does the barrister reckon the technicality is?

my_self · 08-04-2014 7:17pm

Sorry a solicitor and yes it was just a phone call. Just to add, my friend put his hands up and accepted he was wrong when pulled by the Guards. He was in the highest bracket in terms of being over the limit. The solicitor didn't specify the technicality, but mentioned he'd have to apply for more time to investigate in the court.

Colash · 08-04-2014 7:25pm

my_self wrote: »

Sorry a solicitor and yes it was just a phone call. Just to add, my friend put his hands up and accepted he was wrong when pulled by the Guards. He was in the highest bracket in terms of being over the limit. The solicitor didn't specify the technicality, but mentioned he'd have to apply for more time to investigate in the court.

Don't go down the "investigating in court" route . Accept what's happened and make sure your friend dosent do it again. If he/she was that far over the limit it may be pointless fighting anything

Hunter Mahan · 08-04-2014 7:31pm

Fight it if he can easily afford it and the car is a necessity. Otherwise it may not be worth the risk? I would want to be in possession of more information than you appear to have before deciding.

Colash · 08-04-2014 7:33pm

Unless ther is a clear cut mistake by the Garda . Then don't fight it . Trust me

Skatedude · 08-04-2014 7:37pm

"the highest bracket in terms of been over the limit" should be an automatic ban i believe. not sure what technicality will offset this

my_self · 08-04-2014 7:37pm

@colash, why not fight it? If my friend looses, can he be subject to a worse sentence?

Hunter Mahan · 08-04-2014 7:41pm

Might get a smaller fine if he pleads guilty early. I don't think the ban from the road would differ either way.

Colash · 08-04-2014 7:44pm

my_self wrote: »

@colash, why not fight it? If my friend looses, can he be subject to a worse sentence?

Not only that, but the cost of fighting it may be huge . People do often fight these cases and do infact get away with them through technical mistakes . But if your friend was in the highest bracket of being over the limit, I can't see this going any other way , than a conviction and a lengthy ban . I myself had a 6 month driving ban a while ago and was told there was loop holes and ways around things to get out of these situations but that there was also a good chance it could all back fire . I held my hands up in the end, did my ban and made sure I will never be as stupid as I was before to land myself with a ban .

blindside88 · 08-04-2014 7:47pm

A friend of mine was caught for drink driving. Very similar to your friend he was well over the limit. He got off on a number of technicalities combined, wrong area noted as to where he was stopped etc. apparently the solicitor he used specialises in these kind of cases. I can try and get the solicitors name if your friend is interested.

wiz569 · 08-04-2014 7:49pm

Accept he was wrong and take his punishment,it could have turned out far worse in fairness

Pat Mustard · 08-04-2014 7:53pm

my_self wrote: »

I'm a little skeptical that the barrister might be just looking for easy money. Is the case worth fighting? Or is the barrister just looking for business?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Guilty pleas in simple drink driving cases can be straightforward enough work, for experienced practitioners who know their stuff.

Contesting drink driving cases can be difficult and time consuming in the preparation. Many details need to be taken. The law needs to be checked for plausible arguments that can be put to a judge. It can be difficult to gauge the chances of success or failure in contesting a case without carrying out a certain amount of this time consuming work beforehand. The time and effort costs money.

If your friend does not trust his solicitor, he should go somewhere else.

my_self · 08-04-2014 7:55pm

@wiz569 I agree that's morally the correct thing to do, but my question is not about morals. My friend felt the same until he spoke to a certain solicitor.

wiz569 · 08-04-2014 7:58pm

my_self wrote: »

@wiz569 I agree that's morally the correct thing to do, but my question is not about morals. My friend felt the same until he got spoke to a certain solicitor.

Speaking to a solicitor should not change things,I'm not having a pop at your friend but it could have been a life changing event for somebody,

If he does not take it on the chin,whats to stop him doing it again?

MAD MAN 2014 · 08-04-2014 8:01pm

my_self wrote: »

Hi,

A close friend of mine recently got caught drink driving. He was well over the limit. He knows he was completely in the wrong and was prepared to accept the consequences. He had a quick Google and read that he should have a barrister represent him in court, even if pleading guilty.

However, he rang one particular barrister that told him, he might be able to get him of on a technicality. He, was given too prices one for pleading guilty and a much higher price for fighting the case. The barrister has also convinced him that it's worth a shot.

I'm a little skeptical that the barrister might be just looking for easy money. Is the case worth fighting? Or is the barrister just looking for business?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

guilty end of

zenno · 08-04-2014 8:43pm

He was way over the limit as you said, and in this, I would just say to him to bite the bullet and deal with it like a man. He was way over the limit, and thinking like many a folk that they are grand and happily merry/drunk, and don't ever think that they could lose control of the vehicle while listening to the best music pumping out of it, ahh, sure it's a blissful felling when intoxicated, and the feeling of full false-control.

His best bet is to plead guilty, because he is guilty, and when in court, be honest to the judge, because the judge is not a robot, s/he will know immediately if you are genuine or not and might go easier on this person.

I honestly think that challenging this in court would possibly be a bad failure.

Pro Hoc Vice · 08-04-2014 9:54pm

Colash wrote: »

Not only that, but the cost of fighting it may be huge . People do often fight these cases and do infact get away with them through technical mistakes . But if your friend was in the highest bracket of being over the limit, I can't see this going any other way , than a conviction and a lengthy ban . I myself had a 6 month driving ban a while ago and was told there was loop holes and ways around things to get out of these situations but that there was also a good chance it could all back fire . I held my hands up in the end, did my ban and made sure I will never be as stupid as I was before to land myself with a ban .

A conviction is based on the evidence, it does not matter if a person is slightly over the lint or way over the limit for conviction what matters is the evidence. The accused is entitled to see what evidence will be presented to the courts before he decides on plea. Any half decent solicitor will be able to set out chance of success based on all the facts and the costs of fighting the case.

Pat Mustard · 08-04-2014 9:56pm

There has been certain advice on this thread to the effect that the motorist could not successfully contest the charge.

This is just guesswork.

There isn't enough information in the OP to form an accurate opinion, one way or the other. Experienced lawyers could not to give an opinion on the matter, without all of the relevant information and paperwork.

For example, there are no details of:
1. The reason for the roadside stop.
2. The full circumstances of the roadside stop.
3. Details of the arrest.
4. The location of the arrest
5. The relevant district court area.
6. The relevant townland.
7. Whether the Garda brought the breathalyser with him from the Garda car or whether he had to go back to retrieve it.
8. Whether the motorist was accompanied at all times or whether the Garda left him unaccompanied for any period of time, before the intoxilyser test etc.
9. The custody details.
10. The actual (breath) alcohol reading.

The advice that has been given is not based on reasoned analysis. It is guesswork. Bad guesswork.

Pro Hoc Vice · 08-04-2014 9:58pm

wiz569 wrote: »

Speaking to a solicitor should not change things,I'm not having a pop at your friend but it could have been a life changing event for somebody,

If he does not take it on the chin,whats to stop him doing it again?

Speaking to a solicitor should of course change things. The State have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt based on the evidence any charge brought against any person. If they can not do that then the person is innocent.

wytch · 08-04-2014 10:22pm

I was working in a solicitors house recently and he was explaining that the drink driving prosecutions are hard to get. He said that he thought 80% of cases of people who were caught red handed, and pleaded not guilty got away with it. He said his advise nowadays was for everyone to plead not guilt.

Personally I think drink drivers of the higher levels should be locked up.

Gas country we live in.

Pat Mustard · 08-04-2014 10:32pm

wytch wrote: »

I was working in a solicitors house recently and he was explaining that the drink driving prosecutions are hard to get. He said that he thought 80% of cases of people who were caught red handed, and pleaded not guilty got away with it. He said his advise nowadays was for everyone to plead not guilt.

Personally I think drink drivers of the higher levels should be locked up.

Gas country we live in.

This is not accurate by a long shot.

IIRC, Mark de Blacam quoted a figure of a 98% conviction rate overall.
http://www.amazon.com/Drunken-Driving-Law-Mark-Blacam/dp/1858002877

Most drink driving cases are disposed of by way of guilty pleas.

Pro Hoc Vice · 08-04-2014 10:34pm

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-convictions-for-oneinfive-drink-drivers-26672070.html

my_self · 08-04-2014 10:39pm

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-convictions-for-oneinfive-drink-drivers-26672070.html

Thanks, 679 in 9,275 revived a prison sentence. Considering my friend is above the highest bracket, how likely is such an outcome?

Martina82 · 08-04-2014 10:40pm

Surprised with that statistic. Crazy how people can avoid convictions in what you would imagine would be a fairly cut and dry case for the guards to prosecute

my_self · 08-04-2014 10:40pm

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-convictions-for-oneinfive-drink-drivers-26672070.html

Thanks, 679 in 9,275 received a prison sentence. Considering my friend is above the highest bracket, how likely is such an outcome? Would pleading innocent increase his chances of such a sentence?

Martina82 · 08-04-2014 10:47pm

It would prob be worth your while meeting with a solicitor and getting advice. I imagine (s)he would be more useful than a group of anonymous internet posters who know very few details about your case

Martina82 · 08-04-2014 10:47pm

*your friends

A40D · 08-04-2014 10:47pm

if your friend is pleading guilty,then he doesn't need a solicitor,no point paying someone 250 euro ,the length of the ban is mandatory,depending on the reading,if he's well over and its his first time,it'll be a 3 year ban,tell the judge you made a mistake and it wont happen again,do two years of the ban,get your licence back and dont get caught again.end of story.

my_self · 08-04-2014 10:57pm

Martina82 wrote: »

It would prob be worth your while meeting with a solicitor and getting advice. I imagine (s)he would be more useful than a group of anonymous internet posters who know very few details about your case

I agree, I was just looking for people's opinions on the solicitor wanting to try and fight the case. I myself thought he was just looking for money, now I'm not so sure. I will tell "my friend" to chat to more solicitors and get other opinions. He just seemed quite impressed/taken in by a certain solicitor.

Martina82 · 08-04-2014 11:09pm

If you don't already have a family solicitor and don't know any solicitors maybe a friend could put you in touch with one they have used(and trust). A solicitor saying he can get you off on a technicality then saying that it will cost you extra strikes me as a little odd. Perhaps he intends hiring a barrister for you? There are a couple of barristers that travel the country and specialise in drink driving/road traffic cases. If you were to hire him then it would cost you extra, but in many cases it may be money well spent. Unless you were inquiring about prices I find it strange that the solicitor would say that to you. You should contact the Citizens Information crowd or take a look on their website, there are solicitors who offer free legal advice in different areas. Don't have a link but shouldn't be too hard for you to find

hullaballoo · 08-04-2014 11:26pm

Moderator: Legal advice cannot be sought or given in this forum and this thread is the perfect example of why.

OP, your friend needs to consult a legal professional in relation to this. If he got a quote, he can talk through the reasons why there is a difference between pleading or not. Also, the solicitor should advise in relation to the various sanctions - including the effect of failing to plead early.

Thread closed.

Drink Driving charge

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