Irish Times and Bus Lanes

bluesteel

Over the last few days the Irish Times have published some rather odd letters from a gentleman who does not understand how bus lanes work - and who seems to feel entitled to use them because he works and pays taxes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/opening-up-bus-lanes-1.1749291
I'd encourage you to make your opinions and expertise know to the Irish Times

Sir, – How curious it is that bus lanes are generally open to all traffic up to 7am and after 7pm when there is no pressing need for them to be and then, just when they could serve to aid traffic flow and dissipate jams, they are closed during rush hours to enable a very few quite empty duos and trios of buses to wheel past while tailbacks of workers’ cars reach back for miles?

As the first green shoots of economic recovery appear, would it be possible to measure the impact of suspending scarcely used bus lanes for a few months and allowing rush hour traffic the full road space to flow more quickly? Surely it is in everyone’s interest to make unnecessary traffic jams disappear?

Yours, etc,
SHANE O'XXXX,

after a few more informative letters he comes back with this:
http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/opening-up-bus-lanes-1.1749291

Sir, –

The primary failing of largely empty bus lanes at rush hour is that they force two lanes of cars into one lane where motorists intending to turn left further along must wait an unnecessarily long time to reach the filter, meanwhile clogging up the single lane now allowed to them. This is very evident on the Con Colbert Road on the approach to the junction leading to Conyngham Road and on Wolfe Tone Quay on the approach to the junction leading to Blackhall Place and on the Merrion Road approaching various left turns.

The arbitrary priority given to the – often absent – bus passengers is difficult to justify given that individual motorists going to and coming from work are contributing y more to the national economy through buying cars, paying exorbitant motor tax and insurance, regularly buying petrol or diesel, paying for NCTs and for a range of other motor-related repairs and parts, while bus passenger may contribute nothing toward road use.

With regard to the safety of pedal cyclists in Dublin, it is some years since I have seen any cyclist stop for a red light at any junction, while many of them refuse to sport lights or high visibility vests at night, even during the winter months.

If, as is argued, opening up bus lanes at rush hour is a folly, then let it be proved by a measured study.
Yours, etc,

SHANE O'XXXX,

Once again he seems to not fully appreciate that queuing in a Bus Lane is not improving the motorists' lot - and would greatly reduce the efficiency of the bus system... Neither does he realise than many bus users own cars but choose to leave them at home.

Ben D Bus

Is he seriously claiming the bus lane on Wolfe Tone Quay is largely empty?

He should be forced to take an eye test before he is allowed back behind the wheel.

As for contributing to the economy, how much money is exported to corrupt oil states each year by private motorists?

Mec-a-nic

Ben D Bus wrote: »

He should be forced to take an eye test before he is allowed back behind the wheel.

I concur, as it's "some years since I have seen any cyclist stop for a red light at any junction". Stopped reading the letter after that.

Reminds me of a taxi driver, many years ago, giving out about the new cycle lane on the Merrion Road - something along the lines of - he's never seen anyone use them so they should be returned to car/parking use... :rolleyes:

TINA1984

Not that I agree with it, but the letter writer is saying what many Irish motorists like to think.

AngryLips

Why are the IT publishing multiple letters from this guy?

uck51js9zml2yt

Why do we have 24/7 bud lanes.

..... Written from bus in a bus Lane

Spook_ie

Ryder Early Wiper wrote: »

Why do we have 24/7 bud lanes.

..... Written from bus in a bus Lane

I don't know, very few 24/7 bus services

iba

IMO the problem is too many motorists driving to work, doing the school run etc.

If more people took the bus it would be better for everyone and teh enviroment.

And before people complain that tehre are not enough buses, bus services would increase as demand increases therefore creating employment.

The quays are jam packed all the time and I notice the return of many HGV's on them too.

It is IMO about time that a city tax be imposed to stop the amount of cars in Dublin City Center; like in London.

Is there really a 24/7 bus lane?

Alun

iba wrote: »

Is there really a 24/7 bus lane?

Yes, plenty of them.

steamengine

AngryLips wrote: »

Why are the IT publishing multiple letters from this guy?

You get the daftest letters in the IT - it's getting near the time for the 'first cuckoo of the year' letter to appear.

Red Nissan

bluesteel wrote: »

Once again he seems to not fully appreciate that queuing in a Bus Lane is not improving the motorists' lot - and would greatly reduce the efficiency of the bus system... Neither does he realise than many bus users own cars but choose to leave them at home.

Actually, the common 'new' thinking is not to stop native turning traffic at all, let it yield right of way and proceed.

Be that a right turn from a highhanded lane of a single flow system or the left hand lane in a two way system.

This free freeflow concept has been experimented with down through the years and only changed after a serious accident when the yield was not given. But overall it is a perfectly sensible idea and does in fact free up traffic for all.

As does allowing cyclists to past with care and attention through SOME red lights.

Banjoxed

I am sure plenty of vested interests in Dublin would love to see this happening to the BRT project before it gets off the ground:

http://m.ndtv.com/article/assembly-polls/delhi-sheila-dik****-finally-promises-to-scrap-bus-rapid-transit-corridor-451738

Red Nissan

Banjoxed wrote: »

I am sure plenty of vested interests in Dublin would love to see this happening to the BRT project before it gets off the ground:

Why innovate when we can subject our citizens to misery for any individual's lifetime.

bk

Ryder Early Wiper wrote: »

Why do we have 24/7 bud lanes.

..... Written from bus in a bus Lane

Yes, as there are many bus services running 24 hours *

- Airlink
- Aircoach
- All the private intercity coach companies (Aircoach, Citylink, GoBus, etc.)
- Private hire coach companies, etc.
- They are also used by Taxi's which have their part to play in public transport.
- Cyclists

* Though I agree not enough, Dublin Bus should be running 24/7 IMO.

iba

bk wrote: »

Yes, as there are many bus services running 24 hours *

- Airlink
- Aircoach
- All the private intercity coach companies (Aircoach, Citylink, GoBus, etc.)
- Private hire coach companies, etc.
- They are also used by Taxi's which have their part to play in public transport.
- Cyclists

* Though I agree not enough, Dublin Bus should be running 24/7 IMO.

I am sure that they would run 24/7 if they had enough customers - supply and demand.

Remember a decade ago when there was much more Nitelinks for example, but because of lack of passengers they were cut.

Red Nissan

bk wrote: »

* Though I agree not enough, Dublin Bus should be running 24/7 IMO.

So we make special privileges for private companies to make a profit. IMO, disgraceful.

I have had my arguments with these companies who tried to tell me I could not park. But then again, I'm in Cork.

I would not give TAXI's any privileges either, UNLESS, they were charging the same as the bus and in fact providing a semi humanitarian service.

Too many services out to make a profit and suck the life's blood out if our citizens and given these rights by questionable government policies and civil service administration.

If the millions who lived in Dublin travelled by bus or taxi, then maybe so, but riddle me this, how many busses and taxis would one need to service the need?

THINK about it.

iba

Red Nissan wrote: »

So we make special privileges for private companies to make a profit. IMO, disgraceful.

I have had my arguments with these companies who tried to tell me I could not park. But then again, I'm in Cork.

I would not give TAXI's any privileges either, UNLESS, they were charging the same as the bus and in fact providing a semi humanitarian service.

Too many services out to make a profit and suck the life's blood out if our citizens and given these rights by questionable government policies and civil service administration.

If the millions who lived in Dublin travelled by bus or taxi, then maybe so, but riddle me this, how many busses and taxis would one need to service the need?

THINK about it.

I would not agree with your point of view in that you would rather have taxis not using bus lanes. If taxis had to use the car lanes, then they would be stuck in traffic jams more, which means the meters would keep running making the taxi driver even more money and costing the customer more.

Same goes for private bus companies etc. Do you really want their passengers spending time in car lanes/traffic jams?

Red Nissan

iba wrote: »

Same goes for private bus companies etc. Do you really want their passengers spending time in car lanes/traffic jams?

TBH, if traffic flow was managed, everyone benefits. A few years ago in Cork I was made an honourary member of the San Fransisco Police by its Mayor, who has that sort of power.

We asked him about our traffic problems, that is Cork, not Dublin, and he said the traffic could not be managed so badly that it had to be policy, but he could not speak for any individual city but he manages much more traffic and he also wondered why the city manager answered the questions he put to the Lord Mayor, "Why is a subordinate answering my questions" he asked.

It is true today, though we have taken on board some of his suggestions, and where implemented they do work. Delaying traffic is no longer a valid strategy.

Maybe I can find his number.

AngryLips

Red Nissan wrote: »

So we make special privileges for private companies to make a profit.

What's wrong with that if they are providing a valuable public service?

paddyland

Red Nissan wrote: »

TBH, if traffic flow was managed, everyone benefits. A few years ago in Cork I was made an honourary member of the San Fransisco Police by its Mayor, who has that sort of power.

We asked him about our traffic problems, that is Cork, not Dublin, and he said the traffic could not be managed so badly that it had to be policy, but he could not speak for any individual city but he manages much more traffic and he also wondered why the city manager answered the questions he put to the Lord Mayor, "Why is a subordinate answering my questions" he asked.

It is true today, though we have taken on board some of his suggestions, and where implemented they do work. Delaying traffic is no longer a valid strategy.

Maybe I can find his number.

I wouldn't ban all cars from city traffic. Just those driven by motorists with attitudes like yours.

That's what I'd do if I was awarded some mickey mouse 'honorary cop' award. Did you get a nice, shiny badge too?

Chris_Heilong

Buses are far too expensive these days, should be a cap at €1, let more private companies in I say, push the price down. Its almost 3 euro just to get into town for me, simply crazy.

devnull

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Buses are far too expensive these days, should be a cap at €1, let more private companies in I say, push the price down. Its almost 3 euro just to get into town for me, simply crazy.

That's ridicolous, there is no way any company could afford to charge such low fares, private or public, they'd go bust very quickly.

corktina

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Buses are far too expensive these days, should be a cap at €1, let more private companies in I say, push the price down. Its almost 3 euro just to get into town for me, simply crazy.

Ok....so we do that and increase everyone's taxes to pay for it...even those people who have no bus service and also those who never use a bus service at all, such as cyclists

monument

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Buses are far too expensive these days, should be a cap at €1, let more private companies in I say, push the price down. Its almost 3 euro just to get into town for me, simply crazy.

Are you using Leap? If not, why not?

Tenzor07

iba wrote: »

I would not agree with your point of view in that you would rather have taxis not using bus lanes. If taxis had to use the car lanes, then they would be stuck in traffic jams more, which means the meters would keep running making the taxi driver even more money and costing the customer more.
Same goes for private bus companies etc. Do you really want their passengers spending time in car lanes/traffic jams?

I stand to be corrected here, but does the laws for Taxi's not state that the must be engaged in the transport of a passenger in order to use the bus lanes? Not forgetting the famous case of Michael O'Leary buying a taxi plate to by-pass the traffic congestion by using bus-lanes.

I have noticed that the majority of Taxi's coming back into city center are empty then I would say they should use normal lanes in line with other traffic?

Also, empty private min-bus's seem to use the Bus-lanes a lot also. And Taxi's without roof-signs, just with the Taxi stickers seems to use them also.
With some drivers seemingly regarding the bus-lane as there own private speedway..:mad:

StreetLight

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Also, empty private min-bus's seem to use the Bus-lanes a lot also. And Taxi's without roof-signs, just with the Taxi stickers seems to use them also.
With some drivers seemingly regarding the bus-lane as there own private speedway..:mad:

Not to mention An Post vans, courier vans, Cash-in-Transit vans, unmarked Garda cars, BMW or Mercedes car drivers........

Chris_Heilong

corktina wrote: »

Ok....so we do that and increase everyone's taxes to pay for it...even those people who have no bus service and also those who never use a bus service at all, such as cyclists

It should be subsidised by the Government and there is no reason for it to cost the people, why is it when ever someone mentions a change to the way things are being done this paranoia of getting taxed more shows its ugly head? I am sure the money is available, its just tied up in other projects.

Also a lot of the tax we pay is being used for services we will never avail of, Thats normal. We are meant to be a first world country, but our standard of living is dropping day by day with new charges and no pay rises. I would just like to see a first world standard of public transport here.

Tenzor07

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It should be subsidised by the Government and there is no reason for it to cost the people.

The CIE group already receive a large subvention from the government. Not to mention the massive social welfare bill for those with free travel passes.

Losty Dublin

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I stand to be corrected here, but does the laws for Taxi's not state that the must be engaged in the transport of a passenger in order to use the bus lanes? Not forgetting the famous case of Michael O'Leary buying a taxi plate to by-pass the traffic congestion by using bus-lanes.

I have noticed that the majority of Taxi's coming back into city center are empty then I would say they should use normal lanes in line with other traffic?
:

Once they are working then a taxi may use a bus lane. This covers when they are available for hire, on the way to a booking and when they are engaged with a fare on board. Mini buses and other public service vehicles, with or without passengers on board, are entitled to use bus lanes as well.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The CIE group already receive a large subvention from the government. Not to mention the massive social welfare bill for those with free travel passes.

But not enough to either bring our bus and train fares down to €1 or to cover the cost of running the services as a whole.

monument

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It should be subsidised by the Government and there is no reason for it to cost the people, why is it when ever someone mentions a change to the way things are being done this paranoia of getting taxed more shows its ugly head? I am sure the money is available, its just tied up in other projects.

Also a lot of the tax we pay is being used for services we will never avail of, Thats normal. We are meant to be a first world country, but our standard of living is dropping day by day with new charges and no pay rises. I would just like to see a first world standard of public transport here.

How many first world capital cities offer public transport use at the cost you're suggesting?

And again: Are you using Leap?

HonalD

I suspect that a number of the responses above are purely to aggravate the situation, so I'll try and be nice about them.