Insurance Blackboxes for safer driving

godtabh

Do any Irish insurance companies still offer these? Did axa offer them at one stage?

RobbieTheRobber

Boxymo do it www.boxymo.ie

bear1

godtabh wrote: »

Do any Irish insurance companies still offer these? Did axa offer them at one stage?

I believe AXA still do it.
When I took out my policy with them in 2012 they offered it to me with a 20% reduction in the premium.
But because I do a lot of EU driving it wasn't in my interests as it penalises you heavily if you go above limits etc

godtabh

Just doing some research on it. From what I can see its only for young drivers who would be desperate

Mycroft H

godtabh wrote: »

Just doing some research on it. From what I can see its only for young drivers who would be desperate

Its pretty poor alright.

I find this a bit laughable though.

Why will you cancel my policy if I go over 160kph?

As BoxyMo rewards you for safer driving, dangerous speeds are treated seriously. Driving at/or over 160kph would probably result in an instant ban if you were caught by the Garda and we believe that, as this is a policy aimed at safe drivers, anyone driving at such an illegally high speed is not suitable for such a product. As a result we would write to you and provide you with seven days’ notice of cancellation before your policy is terminated.

Drummerboy08

Mycroft H wrote: »

Its pretty poor alright.

I find this a bit laughable though.

In fairness I dont think asking the type of person who this product is ained at to stay away from 160kph is laughable.

Most of these people wouldnt drive nails, never mind a car.

bear1

Why is being banned from driving at 160 laughable?
If I found out my son had gone to that speed I'd be making damn sure he won't be getting the keys back.
The product is there to teach and force young drivers not to act to idiot in the car, do the speed limit everywhere and you are fine.

Mycroft H

bear1 wrote: »

Why is being banned from driving at 160 laughable?
If I found out my son had gone to that speed I'd be making damn sure he won't be getting the keys back.
The product is there to teach and force young drivers not to act to idiot in the car, do the speed limit everywhere and you are fine.

Its something akin to having a TC garda sitting in the passenger seat. Go for work early in the morning? Not good. Come home late at night? Forget it. Stray over the 50k limit a few times? Goodnight.

Like it'll suit a few people but for vast majority of people they'll find something wrong with your driving, all cos a little black box says so.

godtabh

Mycroft H wrote: »

Its something akin to having a TC garda sitting in the passenger seat. Go for work early in the morning? Not good. Come home late at night? Forget it. Stray over the 50k limit a few times? Goodnight.

Like it'll suit a few people but for vast majority of people they'll find something wrong with your driving, all cos a little black box says so.

From what I've read of the axa one is that it scores you over a 3-4 month period and rates you between 0-100. Over 70 you are a safe driver and you get your discount. The odd lapse is ok. Consistency is key

djimi

Mycroft H wrote: »

Its something akin to having a TC garda sitting in the passenger seat. Go for work early in the morning? Not good. Come home late at night? Forget it. Stray over the 50k limit a few times? Goodnight.

Like it'll suit a few people but for vast majority of people they'll find something wrong with your driving, all cos a little black box says so.

I find the entire concept utterly ridiculous, but to be fair there is nothing wrong with them cancelling your policy for driving at that speed; anyone who is dumb enough to drive in excess of 100mph with a black box monitoring their driving is most likely too stupid to belong behind the wheel of a car in the first place.

markpb

Mycroft H wrote: »

Like it'll suit a few people but for vast majority of people they'll find something wrong with your driving, all cos a little black box says so.

If it finds something wrong with your driving, it's because _something is wrong_. The only reason people dislike them is because, without them, the chances of getting caught breaking the law is tiny. Now it's guaranteed.

You can argue (plausibly) that some of the things they'd catch you for aren't dangerous but it doesn't change the fact that they're illegal. Likewise, you could argue that the law is silly, the limit is too low, the road should really be a motorway, etc, etc or that it shouldn't apply to you because you're a good driver, but it doesn't matter because the law is still the law.

If you don't like them, at least have the honesty and conviction to come out and say it: I don't like them because I regularly break the law, justify it to myself that I'm a good driver and I want to be able to continue breaking the law with immunity.

you can drive at any time of the day or night with no curfew – however frequently driving at risky times, such as after midnight, may lower your driving score and therefore reduce your ability to earn ”Reward” Kilometers.

On the other hand, this I'm less keen on. I think everyone should be free to drive whenever they want without being penalised.

bear1

I think it is only necessary for those who are 18/19 and need to get their foot "cheaply" through the insurance door.
As Djimi said, if you know there is a box monitoring your driving and you still decide to act the tosser then you deserve to be removed from the road.

sebastianlieken

I had a black box from admirals 'bell' insurance here in Belfast for my first year driving on my own policy (3 years previous on parents in the south, but that didn't count :mad:)

... I was desperate... it was my lowest quote by far at £1279.69 (next lowest was into the 1500's)

Cancellation clause above 100mph aswell.

I could log into an online portal to see a weekly review of my driving behaviour; it was nothing more than one of the following of five emoticons:




:mad:

Additionally it would give you some tips as to how you could improve your score as follows:

What you're doing right: Sticking to the speed limits gives you time to react to unexpected situations.
How you could improve: Harsh acceleration detected, Accelerating and braking harshly or suddenly gives other road users less time to react to your movements

These change on a weekly basis and your progress is tracked on a graph. If you're in the top 25% of drivers, you can call to ask for a good driver discount, conversly if you fall into the bottom 25% they will call you and inform you of a policy increase.....

I drove like a feckin granny when it came to speeds and acceleration for the first few months, it was pretty rediculous tbh and I RARELY got more than a ":o", usually I got sad or frowny faces.

After the first 6 months when they couldn't increase my policy anymore I started driving more "normally", 40 in a 30 zone, having a frisky drive on a country road from time to time, overtaking, driving at night and at rush hour, and so on so forth... to my surprise I started getting mostly ":)" and ":D"

I couldn't find any logic in their program at all - it was pure retarded.

I started takin' the piss with speeds and acceleration to test their program even more and it kept giving me happy faces!

There are pros and cons to the blackbox insurance.

Pros:

• Makes you drive in a more fuel efficient manner
• Lower insurance premium
• Doubles as a free car tracker

Cons:

• It feels very rigged and dishonest as you can't see or request any raw data, all you get is a smiley face and a generic comment.
• It makes driving very tedious, constantly watching the speed gauge
• Gives insurers the (pre-agreed to) ability to increase your premium for "unsafe" driving.

Just my 2 cents on these black boxes. (and hey they are actually black!)

markpb

sebastianlieken wrote: »

After the first 6 months when they couldn't increase my policy anymore I started driving more "normally", 40 in a 30 zone, having a frisky drive on a country road from time to time, overtaking, driving at night and at rush hour, and so on so forth... to my surprise I started getting mostly ":)" and ":D"

Is it possible your driving got better in those six months and that's why the evaluation improved?

CiniO

Mycroft H wrote: »

Its pretty poor alright.

I find this a bit laughable though.

Why will you cancel my policy if I go over 160kph?

As BoxyMo rewards you for safer driving, dangerous speeds are treated seriously. Driving at/or over 160kph would probably result in an instant ban if you were caught by the Garda and we believe that, as this is a policy aimed at safe drivers, anyone driving at such an illegally high speed is not suitable for such a product. As a result we would write to you and provide you with seven days’ notice of cancellation before your policy is terminated.

What if someone does this speed over 160km/h in Germany on autobahn?
Will his policy also be cancelled?

Besides - this unit is called km/h.
Someone could argue with them, that they simply had no clue what "kph" is.

Pov06

CiniO wrote: »

What if someone does this speed over 160km/h in Germany on autobahn?
Will his policy also be cancelled?

Besides - this unit is called km/h.
Someone could argue with them, that they simply had no clue what "kph" is.

Boxymo has mileage limits on their policies so I suppose people wouldn't be really using such a policy to go abroad, but even if they do, the policy is cancelled 10 days or so after the incident.

I am pretty sure someone would notice that they are driving abroad in Germany and would cancel such a warning or perhaps maybe their systems don't even monitor speeds in other countries because they don't know the limits?

CiniO

Pov06 wrote: »

Boxymo has mileage limits on their policies so I suppose people wouldn't be really using such a policy to go abroad, but even if they do, the policy is cancelled 10 days or so after the incident.

I am pretty sure someone would notice that they are driving abroad in Germany and would cancel such a warning or perhaps maybe their systems don't even monitor speeds in other countries because they don't know the limits?

While for someone desperate to lower insurance premium this might be fine, but even a small think about fact that in some future we all be using those black boxes freitens me.
This would take away a lot of our freedom.

Pov06

CiniO wrote: »

While for someone desperate to lower insurance premium this might be fine, but even a small think about fact that in some future we all be using those black boxes freitens me.
This would take away a lot of our freedom.

This is indeed true.

I am a young driver myself so BoxyMo will probably be the only thing I will be using for the first few years

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

Besides - this unit is called km/h.
Someone could argue with them, that they simply had no clue what "kph" is.

The unit is called kilometers per hour. I dont think that km/h has any more of a legal standing than any other abbreviation.

KPH is actually used in places to denote kilometers per hour.

sebastianlieken

markpb wrote: »

Is it possible your driving got better in those six months and that's why the evaluation improved?

Not likely. I was driving for 3 years prior to that so there's unlikely to be a major jump at that stage. Also, I was testing it on and off for the whole insurance period and I did some granny style driving for a few weeks in the latter 6 months and I stopped getting my smiley and happy faces.

I even got a call one afternoon asking about an incident that appeared on their system which indicated that I had been involved in an accident - my car was parked in a private driveway well away from anything that could have touched it. (nothing did) - so told me that their system is a bit... erroneous

jimgoose

CiniO wrote: »

What if someone does this speed over 160km/h in Germany on autobahn?
Will his policy also be cancelled?...

Frankly, it would amaze me if anyone with one of these fitted found themselves driving on a Black Autobahn. :pac:

jimgoose

Mycroft H wrote: »

Its something akin to having a TC garda sitting in the passenger seat. Go for work early in the morning? Not good. Come home late at night? Forget it. Stray over the 50k limit a few times? Goodnight...

Bit of a difference between all those things and a young-fella-miladdo doing the ton out on the road.

Valetta

CiniO wrote: »

While for someone desperate to lower insurance premium this might be fine, but even a small think about fact that in some future we all be using those black boxes freitens me.
This would take away a lot of our freedom.

Take away a lot of our freedom to break the law?

What's wrong with that?

cplwhisper

AXA Drivesave is App on Smartphone now

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

The unit is called kilometers per hour. I dont think that km/h has any more of a legal standing than any other abbreviation.

See all those units are SI units (International System of Units)

They provide very strict guidelines for unit symbol, where each using is assigned exact symbol.

meter symbol is "m".
hour symbol is "h".
and "k" is prefix meaning 1000.

All are unique and it even makes difference if capital or standard letters are used. So it's can't be KM/H. It must be "km/h"

Unit symbols and the values of quantities [edit]
Although the writing of unit names is language-specific, the writing of unit symbols and the values of quantities is consistent across all languages and therefore the SI Brochure has specific rules in respect of writing them

Also Irish law makes reference to km/h - not kph.

So in other words - kph, kmph, K/h, and other cr@p like that, is pretty much meaningless.

KPH is actually used in places to denote kilometers per hour.

It is, but not rightly.
As you can see all speed limit road signs say km/h.
If they said kph, you would have good legal grounds not to obey it, by explaining you had no clue what kph actually means.

CiniO

Valetta wrote: »

Take away a lot of our freedom to break the law?

What's wrong with that?

Because freedom is the most important.

Also note that those devices record where you go and when.
They record how hard you accelerate and brake, and probably penalise you for harsh acceleration, braking or cornering. This is not illegal, so why do you want to be penalised for it.

And beside - are you serious that would be happy with 100% surveillance of your driving?
Come on.

I'm sure that won't happen (those boxes for everyone) unless people agree to it. And I'm really hoping there is still some self preservation left in people's minds.

jimgoose

Valetta wrote: »

Take away a lot of our freedom to break the law?

What's wrong with that?

It all depends on whether you take a Catholic (or counter-Reformist), or Protestant view of driving, theologically speaking. If on the one hand you subscribe to the notion that salvation, or at least not having a toe in the hole administered by a Big Tick Culchie Gard(TM) is achievable by everyone through following simple, formulaic rules together with sumptuous iconry and step-by-step catechism, then the Black Box system is for you. However, if you first begin with the assumption that not everyone can be saved, and proceed to a more Calvinistic paradigm of difficult personal decisions, free interpretation of scripture and a spartan adherence to core ideals, then you'll eschew such things as the work of Stan. :cool:

Valetta

CiniO wrote: »

Because freedom is the most important.

Also note that those devices record where you go and when.
They record how hard you accelerate and brake, and probably penalise you for harsh acceleration, braking or cornering. This is not illegal, so why do you want to be penalised for it.

And beside - are you serious that would be happy with 100% surveillance of your driving?
Come on.

I'm sure that won't happen (those boxes for everyone) unless people agree to it. And I'm really hoping there is still some self preservation left in people's minds.

People see me driving every day of the week.

If I brake hard the car behind me knows all about it. He could well be from my insurance company. Why should it bother me?

CiniO

Valetta wrote: »

People see me driving every day of the week.

If I brake hard the car behind me knows all about it. He could well be from my insurance company. Why should it bother me?

As I said - I'm really hoping there is still some self preservation left in people's minds.
Luckily not everyone thinks like you

Valetta

jimgoose wrote: »

It all depends on whether you take a Catholic (or counter-Reformist), or Protestant view of driving, theologically speaking. If on the one hand you subscribe to the notion that salvation, or at least not having a toe in the hole administered by a Big Tick Culchie Gard(TM) is achievable by everyone through following simple, formulaic rules together with sumptuous iconry and step-by-step catechism, then the Black Box system is for you. However, if you first begin with the assumption that not everyone can be saved, and proceed to a more Calvinistic paradigm of difficult personal decisions, free interpretation of scripture and a spartan adherence to core ideals, then you'll eschew such things as the work of Stan. :cool:

I've no idea what all that means, but I certainly don't want to upset Stan.

He's the man.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

If they said kph, you would have good legal grounds not to obey it, by explaining you had no clue what kph actually means.

There isnt a hope in hell that you would get away with that defense in fairness, especially not when youre talking about an insurance policy and it is blatantly obvious what it refers to.

In any context, if you asked a 1000 people what you meant by 160kph Id be utterly amazed if even one of them said anything other than kilometers per hour.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

There isnt a hope in hell that you would get away with that defense in fairness, especially not when youre talking about an insurance policy and it is blatantly obvious what it refers to.

In any context, if you asked a 1000 people what you meant by 160kph Id be utterly amazed if even one of them said anything other than kilometers per hour.

When I first drove here, I've seen one of those electronic signs saying "road works - speed limit 40kph". I must say I had not clue what it means then.

Pov06

djimi wrote: »

There isnt a hope in hell that you would get away with that defense in fairness, especially not when youre talking about an insurance policy and it is blatantly obvious what it refers to.

In any context, if you asked a 1000 people what you meant by 160kph Id be utterly amazed if even one of them said anything other than kilometers per hour.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPH

Keystrokes per hour

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

When I first drove here, I've seen one of those electronic signs saying "road works - speed limit 40kph". I must say I had not clue what it means then.

Yes you did. What else could it possibly have meant, considering it was preceded by the words "speed limit"?

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Yes you did. What else could it possibly have meant, considering it was preceded by the words "speed limit"?

It was 2005, just after exchanging mph to km/h.
I've seen most signs referring to km/h.
How could I know what they mean by kph if I've never heard about it before.
As student of Physics, I was really attached to correct usage of SI units, so it didn't come to my mind they could have used kph as km/h on official road information. I honestly hadn't no clue what it was.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

It was 2005, just after exchanging mph to km/h.
I've seen most signs referring to km/h.
How could I know what they mean by kph if I've never heard about it before.
As student of Physics, I was really attached to correct usage of SI units, so it didn't come to my mind they could have used kph as km/h on official road information. I honestly hadn't no clue what it was.

It would have taken your brain a fraction of a second to put two and two together. Its on a road sign that refers to a speed limit; there is quite literally nothing else that it could have meant.

You could argue this in court and Id love to see how you get on, but Id be amazed if you found a single judge who would give this defense the time of day.

jimgoose

CiniO wrote: »

It was 2005, just after exchanging mph to km/h.
I've seen most signs referring to km/h.
How could I know what they mean by kph if I've never heard about it before.
As student of Physics, I was really attached to correct usage of SI units, so it didn't come to my mind they could have used kph as km/h on official road information. I honestly hadn't no clue what it was.

Why couldn't you have studied chemistry? Then I could call you IUPAC Shakur!! :pac::pac::pac:

SouperComputer

Somewhat similar system in the US called snapshot. It didn't try to map your speed agasint posted speed limits though, which is good because really thats not the safety issue. Constantly not keeping up with traffic and paying too much attention to your speedo instead of surroundings is not my idea of "safe".

What it did log, is hard acceleration or hard stops.
Any deceleration greater than 7mph/s2 (I think it worked out at .3G) would give you a point/red mark. You could login and check every day to see how you are doing and see how many (if any) hard stops had been recorded.

So basically don't drive like a tool and give yourself room.

sebastianlieken

CiniO wrote: »

It was 2005, just after exchanging mph to km/h.
I've seen most signs referring to km/h.
How could I know what they mean by kph if I've never heard about it before.
As student of Physics, I was really attached to correct usage of SI units, so it didn't come to my mind they could have used kph as km/h on official road information. I honestly hadn't no clue what it was.

As a student of Aeronautical Engineering, I get awfully confused by anything that isn't true SI convention. I thought a sign that displayed "50" meant 50 m/s. :pac: