Men doing the mini marathon? Mod Note#81

Mrs W

Yes I know it's the women's mini marathon but there's a big family of us doing it for a charity very close to our hearts and in order to raise as much money as we can the boys have agreed to dress up and do it too.
Can they just turn up on the day? Will they be allowed to the starting line with no number or should we just register them with girls names?

menoscemo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055520128

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056557547

An annual favourite thread that never ends well :P :pac:;)

Laois_Man

I did it in 2005 or 2006 under a female name and dressed up. I believe they've clamped down on it since then for some reason. Although I'm not sure they can stop anyone walking/running down the public road. They probably won't give out the finishers medal to men tho. If that matters.

Mrs W

Whoops! I did search it but wasn't finding anything recent, I don't want to start a row, was just wondering about the practicalities of it


The medal doesn't matter, it was just suggested that the boys dressing up and doing it means they can ask their own friends/workmates for sponsorship and raise money too.

We wanted to make sure they could actually run most of the race after raising the money though

menoscemo

Mrs W wrote: »

Whoops! I did search it but wasn't finding anything recent, I don't want to start a row, was just wondering about the practicalities of it

The rules state that men are not allowed to run.
In reality they will be allowed to run but will not get medal at the end. The stewards and volunteers are under strict instructions about this and it causes a fair amount of angst. Having stewarded last year and had to put up with the grief of listening to grown men whinging about not getting a cheap 50c medal I would rather the men didn't run at all

* My Opinion* Also to be frank men dressing up as women to run a women's only race is pretty pathetic and smacks of attention seeking. It might have been funny about 15 years ago but nowadays it is very old, boring and worn. I never saw anyone laughing about it last year, just a lot of :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:. * My Opinion*

HelenAnne

Mrs W wrote: »

Yes I know it's the women's mini marathon but there's a big family of us doing it for a charity very close to our hearts and in order to raise as much money as we can the boys have agreed to dress up and do it too.
Can they just turn up on the day? Will they be allowed to the starting line with no number or should we just register them with girls names?

It's great that you're raising money for charity, but if you wanted to be sure that you could all run / walk the whole course and get your medals / goody bag / whatever, you could pick a different mixed-gender 10k and just all do it together? I'm not discouraging you from the Flora MM, it's just that I know that people who aren't regular runners / joggers mightn't know that there are 5k / 10k events on all the time and you can do any of them for charity if you choose. For example, for a few years I was away for the June Bank Hol weekend so I just picked another fun 10k around the same time and did that for charity, and because it was mixed my husband could do it too. I did the Burren 10k one year, and one in Co. Roscommon another year. There are always races on in and around Dublin and around the country. There's a nice 10k in Swords in June or July, for example that gets loads of beginners and fun runners, and there's the great Pink Run in the city centre in August, and loads of others.

Just suggesting that in case it was an idea you might all like.

HelenAnne

Sorry Mrs W, this isn't a response to you, it's because we were told to take the sexism argument to this thread instead of the other Mini Marathon thread:

Oops69 wrote: »

This race is a dinosaur , it should be open to everyone otherwise it is simply discrimination no matter what anyone says .

Why?? Someone says this every year and I don't understand it. I know for most people the Flora Mini Marathon is a day out and it's for raising money, but it's also a RACE -- and in athletics, women race other women. In road races, they usually do so within a mixed field, but not always. In the Olympics, you have a women's marathon -- on the roads -- and women's track races. Is that sexist? Different races have different criteria. Is it sexist that I can't rock up to a track and jump into a junior boys' race? No, it's not, because that race is for junior boys, so I can't run in it; on the other hand, I can do the Master's Women's Cross country and the junior boys can't.

Is it sexist that Paddy Barnes and John Joe Nevin can't fight Katie Taylor? Is it sexist that the men's Toulouse team can't play the Irish women's Leinster team?

Running and running clubs are open to men and women equally, and most road races are mixed-gender (and you get an overall and gender finishing position), but some aren't, and I think that's fine. I think people forget that these events are races, and that's why they cry sexism. In a race, of course I want to pass every single person in front of me, but when it comes to prizes etc, I know I'm racing women, and more particularly women in my age group. That's just the way the competition is run in athletics.

robinph

My biggest issue is the words mini marathon. That naming should be banned.

It's the Flora Womens 10km Fun Run/ Walk.

HelenAnne

robinph wrote: »

My biggest issue is the words mini marathon. That naming should be banned.

It's the Flora Womens 10km Fun Run/ Walk.

'Mini Marathon' has been taken to mean '10k' for many years. If people want the word 'marathon' banned for anything but 26.2 miles, fine, then take it out of 'half marathon', 'ultra marathon' etc.

Last year the winner of the above mentioned Fun Run / Walk finished in 34.19. That's faster than most people's fun-running / walking pace.

robinph

HelenAnne wrote: »

'Mini Marathon' has been taken to mean '10k' for many years. If people want the word 'marathon' banned for anything but 26.2 miles, fine, then take it out of 'half marathon', 'ultra marathon' etc.

Last year the winner of the above mentioned Fun Run / Walk finished in 34.19. That's faster than most people's fun-running / walking pace.

Marathon is a specific distance.
Half marathon is a specific distance, it is half a marathon.

Ultra marathon is not a specific distance so would agree with it not being used for that, but ultra marathons are not something that will be coming up in conversation around the water cooler the day after for most people. Anyone doing an ultra marathon is fully aware of the fact that a marathon is 26.2 miles.
People discussing marathons when they mean 10kms or some other random distance is what we should be avoiding. It is not in the common usage for mini-marathon to mean 10km. It just means something that the person saying doesn't understand.

HelenAnne

robinph wrote: »

Marathon is a specific distance.
Half marathon is a specific distance, it is half a marathon.

Ultra marathon is not a specific distance so would agree with it not being used for that, but ultra marathons are not something that will be coming up in conversation around the water cooler the day after for most people. Anyone doing an ultra marathon is fully aware of the fact that a marathon is 26.2 miles.
People discussing marathons when they mean 10kms or some other random distance is what we should be avoiding. It is not in the common usage for mini-marathon to mean 10km. It just means something that the person saying doesn't understand.

When it comes to the actual official name of the Flora-sponsored race being discussed, it has a modifier in it -- mini -- so it's not calling itself a marathon. I know some people do then start calling this 10k race a 'marathon', but you can't police all the people in the world making mistakes. Well, you could follow them around correcting them, but you'd just drive yourself mad. You just need to make your peace with people getting it wrong (like I'm still trying to do with people saying 'loose some weight' or 'threadmill' on the internet all the time :-))

if you google 'Mini Marathon' loads of 10k races around the world come up. I know it's not a marathon, and most people interested in running know it's not a marathon. That's what matters really. To charity walkers at the back, correcting their usage of the word 'marathon' is like some car enthusiast coming up to me and telling me I've got the naming convention of some mysterious piston in my car engine or something wrong.

Sacksian

robinph wrote: »

It is not in the common usage for mini-marathon to mean 10km. It just means something that the person saying doesn't understand.

I'd imagine that anyone in Ireland who actually gives a **** about what distance any race is would know the length of the mini-marathon. Personally, I've never heard it being used to refer to anything other than 10k, so would assume a 10k distance.

robinph

Never heard people dropping the mini bit and saying they did the marathon in two hours the day after? There just isn't enough :rolleyes: for that.

Nothing wrong with correcting people and pointing out mistakes.
There was a thread on here a couple of days ago with someone talking about doing a "10k marathon" and then referred to it as just a marathon a couple of other times in their post.

We should be encouraging people to run, but helpfully pointing out mistakes.

Cabaal

HelenAnne wrote: »

'Mini Marathon' has been taken to mean '10k' for many years. If people want the word 'marathon' banned for anything but 26.2 miles, fine, then take it out of 'half marathon', 'ultra marathon' etc.

With a half and a ultra you clearly know what they are.

A half is half the distance and ultra is something bigger then a marathon and in fairness ultra's don't come up much in general conversations with new runners aiming to train or run their first 10km.

An awful lot of people doing the mini marathon don't use the word mini when they refer to it, I've heard it numerous times. Its far more accurate to call it a 10km.

If mini marathon was so common then every 10km up and down the country would be called a mini-marathon, the reality is they aren't. Big runs like the great Ireland run are called 10km's as are the vast majority of locally run 10km races up and down the country.

rainbow kirby

At this stage it's called "Mini-Marathon" more for historical reasons than anything else, the race started 30ish years ago to get women running and the name has just stuck in people's minds.

That said - when people describe the 10km distance as the "women's marathon" it does get on my nerves.

statss

yeah, the ad for this on radio at the moment says "register with the marathon organisors...."

yaboya1

Women saying to their friends "Are you doing the marathon again this year?" when referring to this race bothers me.
Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.

AK333

yaboya1 wrote: »

Women saying to their friends "Are you doing the marathon again this year?" when referring to this race bothers me.
Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.

this + 1

HelenAnne is correct in her posts IMO.

Its a historical race to get women up and moving, when women never ran on a more casual basis and to raise money. It does what it says on the tin.

Why you all need to get upset over a name is beyond me. Move on. most of the women competing in this MINI marathon, myself included, will never break speed records, but whats wrong in people having a day out, having the craic, having a bit of exercise (whether you try to go a bit faster each year like me or walk it) and raising money.

Its not affecting you - like my 12 year old says

Cry me a river, build yourself a bridge AND GET OVER IT :D

yaboya1

AK333 wrote: »

this + 1

HelenAnne is correct in her posts IMO.

Its a historical race to get women up and moving, when women never ran on a more casual basis and to raise money. It does what it says on the tin.

Why you all need to get upset over a name is beyond me. Move on. most of the women competing in this MINI marathon, myself included, will never break speed records, but whats wrong in people having a day out, having the craic, having a bit of exercise (whether you try to go a bit faster each year like me or walk it) and raising money.

Its not affecting you - like my 12 year old says

Cry me a river, build yourself a bridge AND GET OVER IT :D

It's not a marathon though

menoscemo

HelenAnne wrote: »

In a race, of course I want to pass every single person in front of me, but when it comes to prizes etc, I know I'm racing women, and more particularly women in my age group. That's just the way the competition is run in athletics.

Totally agree and it's why men should not be allowed to run even if in drag. Imagine if one of the faster male runners dressed up in drag and ended up placing or even winning the thing? That would be a total disaster for the race and would mean a total clampdown on any further men running the race.
It would only take one fast male trying to 'make a point' :rolleyes: to make this happen. Luckily it hasn't happened before but it's a 'accident' waiting to happen IMO.

I Used to have a problem with the term 'mini marathon' but only when I was training for or just completed my first marathon. Nowadays I don't mind at all, 'mini' is explanatory enough. As has been said, some people will refer to a road race of any distance as a 'marathon' anyway. Eventually you just stop caring or being so anal about the term.

yaboya1

menoscemo wrote: »

Totally agree and it's why men should not be allowed to run even if in drag. Imagine if one of the faster male runners dressed up in drag and ended up placing or even winning the thing? That would be a total disaster for the race and would mean a total clampdown on any further men running the race.
It would only take one fast male trying to 'make a point' :rolleyes: to make this happen. Luckily it hasn't happened before but it's a 'accident' waiting to happen IMO.

I used to be in the discrimination boat, but now I've totally jumped ship and can see that women deserve a race that they can be first across the line, not just the winner of the female category in a mixed race behind loads of men.

menoscemo wrote: »

I Used to have a problem with the term 'mini marathon' but only when I was training for or just completed my first marathon. Nowadays I don't mind at all, 'mini' is explanatory enough. As has been said some people will refer to a road race of any distance as a 'marathon' anyway. Eventually you just stop caring or being so anal about the term.

You're probably right about this. When I ran Chicago last year a guy I know asked me how long was the Chicago Marathon, longer or shorter than Dublin's 26.2miles? .

Maybe I'll become less anal about the term as time goes by?

BeepBeep67

menoscemo wrote: »

Totally agree and it's why men should not be allowed to run even if in drag. Imagine if one of the faster male runners dressed up in drag and ended up placing or even winning the thing? That would be a total disaster for the race and would mean a total clampdown on any further men running the race.
It would only take one fast male trying to 'make a point' :rolleyes: to make this happen. Luckily it hasn't happened before but it's a 'accident' waiting to happen IMO.

Had to take a guy out on Leeson St bridge before who was in the top 10 - he wasn't even in fancy dress!

walshb

What possible reason can men have for entering this?

menoscemo

walshb wrote: »

What possible reason can men have for entering this?

Attention seeking??

eoinín

Cabaal wrote: »

With a half and a ultra you clearly know what they are.

No you don't. A half is a half, no problem there, but if someone says to me they are running an ultra I have to immediately ask what distance? I recently insulted someone by saying that their ultra wouldnt be all that much longer than a marathon (I assumed it was 50km). It was actually 39 miles, a lot more than my guess.

Why is it ok for the established running community to consitently use one very confusing term to cover many distances and yet when a newcomer gets confused and uses the wrong word for a race length they seem to create so much bile and ill feeling?

eoinín

walshb wrote: »

What possible reason can men have for entering this?

Maybe some think that they would raise a greater level of money for charity by entering this race as a novelty than they would by entering any other regular 10k marathon.

Cartman78

Now, someone who did a 10k and called it a 'marathon' and were wearing headphones while they did it...how annoying would that be??

I understood it was the largest women's event of this type in Europe or the world or something?

It seems to get a large number of women from this area making the effort, training, raising money and the like. It's almost like a bonding thing for some of them.

It would be a shame to see that aspect diluted by some men insisting on entering, though in fairness to the OP his motives are clearly far better than those who want to just make some point.

eoinín

Cartman78 wrote: »

Now, someone who did a 10k and called it a 'marathon' and were wearing headphones while they did it...how annoying would that be??

And if their Garmin measured the course at 9.85km so therefore the course was short...

walshb

menoscemo wrote: »

Attention seeking??

It's the only plausible reason.

rainbow kirby

Deleted User wrote: »

It would be a shame to see that aspect diluted by some men insisting on entering, though in fairness to the OP his motives are clearly far better than those who want to just make some point.

Idea: What about an elite/club men's race going off an hour before the start of the main event? It's a very fast course and it would be interesting to see...

eoinín

eoinín wrote: »

And if their Garmin measured the course at 9.85km so therefore the course was short...

Someone called it a marathon, wore headphones, measured it short on a Garmin that they bought for the event, and then gave out afterwards because they expected more water stations...

drquirky

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Had to take a guy out on Leeson St bridge before who was in the top 10 - he wasn't even in fancy dress!

5 yoyos says it was one of the Sister's Pearse crew desperate for ANY top ten...(actually now that I think of it, pretty sure none of their men would be quick enough over 10k to be in the mini marathon top ten )

Cartman78

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Idea: What about an elite/club men's race going off an hour before the start of the main event? It's a very fast course and it would be interesting to see...

Only if they're in drag, high-heels and wearing gigantic fake boobies

J. Ramone

The answer to the problem might be to run a TV marathon with a start time one hour later. Would that put some of them off?

As said earlier, it was funny 15 years ago.

J. Ramone

J. Ramone wrote: »

...a TV marathon...

"Transvestite"?

Is it not complex enough as it is between men and women without another run aimed at one group?

munkee

Tangent/factoid- just watched 'Run For Your Life', about Fred Lebow, the guy who started the NYC marathon (it's a good film, worth a look).

He created the first all women 'Crazy Legs Mini Marathon' in NY, to encourage women to race. Part of the reason he chose 'mini' was because mini skirts were in vogue at the time. Gotta love the 70s.

More here and here.

Personally, I think men running the mini-marathon is a bit sad. There are tons of other events to take part in to raise money for charity.

J. Ramone

Deleted User wrote: »

"Transvestite"?

Is it not complex enough as it is between men and women without another run aimed at one group?

Not a runner really (pardon the pun) but most men running in a women's race would be more reluctant to do so if the lame (pun not intended) farce was removed.

statss

did I read somewhere before that this is a massive money spinner for the club who organise it?

Deirdree loves Rashid

yaboya1 wrote: »

I used to be in the discrimination boat, but now I've totally jumped ship and can see that women deserve a race that they can be first across the line, not just the winner of the female category in a mixed race behind loads of men.



You're probably right about this. When I ran Chicago last year a guy I know asked me how long was the Chicago Marathon, longer or shorter than Dublin's 26.2miles? .

Maybe I'll become less anal about the term as time goes by?

See all this sh@te starts - patronising women. Seriously man and meno get a life.
if you were any good there would be a mini marathon set up for men where 40000 of you get involved and set records for collecting the most money for charity. Just a shame its only your ego you're interested in and how fast you can beat each other and how much faster you are than women.

theses men have no interest in this race, its just about putting it down.

HelenAnne

Deirdree loves Rashid wrote: »

See all this sh@te starts - patronising women. Seriously man and meno get a life.
if you were any good there would be a mini marathon set up for men where 40000 of you get involved and set records for collecting the most money for charity. Just a shame its only your ego you're interested in and how fast you can beat each other and how much faster you are than women.

theses men have no interest in this race, its just about putting it down.

I don't think it's patronising to say that a women's race allows the fastest women to cross the line first -- I DO like to see women race each other separate from men. The women's race at the Great Ireland Run on TV was really exciting. There wouldn't have been the same sense of tension and of a race going on if groups of men were interspersed between the leading groups of women.

I don't think it's patronising to Fionnuala Britton to admit that Mark Hanrahan and Mick Clohisey ran the 10k race faster than her; she's still the National 10k champion.

Deirdree loves Rashid

HelenAnne wrote: »

I don't think it's patronising to say that a women's race allows the fastest women to cross the line first -- I DO like to see women race each other separate from men. The women's race at the Great Ireland Run on TV was really exciting. There wouldn't have been the same sense of tension and of a race going on if groups of men were interspersed between the leading groups of women.

I don't think it's patronising to Fionnuala Britton to admit that Mark Hanrahan and Mick Clohisey ran the 10k race faster than her; she's still the National 10k champion.

Well I do, thats how I see their response.

I am of course very proud of Fionnuala blah blah but yes I think they're patronising sh@tes.

Cabaal

Deirdree loves Rashid wrote: »

I am of course very proud of Fionnuala blah blah but yes I think they're patronising sh@tes.

So you think its patronising to say that some men can finish an event faster then say Fionnuala Britton? How exactly is that patronising?

HelenAnne

Deirdree loves Rashid wrote: »

Well I do, thats how I see their response.

I am of course very proud of Fionnuala blah blah but yes I think they're patronising sh@tes.

You say patronising, I say facing facts re physiology

Deirdree loves Rashid

HelenAnne wrote: »

You say patronising, I say facing facts re physiology

Listen the same guys are whinging about the name of the race. I doubt physiology comes into their heads.

You can read that any way you like.

robinph

Deirdree loves Rashid wrote: »

Listen the same guys are whinging about the name of the race. I doubt physiology comes into their heads.

You can read that any way you like.

Not sure what way to read it as I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make.

I'm not overly keen on the idea of the womens only race without a male equivalent. But then I'd also not be keen on the idea of a men only equivalent. There just wouldn't be a reasonable way of doing two separate races, but I also see that there isn't a way of being fair to the elite women in a mixed race.

Now if you had a women only 10km with 100 fastest women in the country running, then ten minutes later you had the 100 fastest men in the country set off, then following that you have 40000 of everyone set off behind the men. You'd then have a festival of running, with appropriate coverage for the fastest women running a solo event and the coverage they deserve, and also everyone gets to take part in an inclusive 10km event together.

Just don't call it anything-marathon.

Krusty_Clown

J. Ramone wrote: »

The answer to the problem might be to run a TV marathon with a start time one hour later. Would that put some of them off?

I think that's a good idea (except that the volunteers would have to stick around for an extra hour). Maybe get the cross-dressers to raise a minimum of €250 for charity and allow them to start 2 hours after the ladies start. Having volunteered a couple of times, I can't say that the lads dressing up as ladies add anything to the occasion, but having them race together would at least provide a modicum of entertainment value.

HelenAnne

robinph wrote: »

Now if you had a women only 10km with 100 fastest women in the country running, then ten minutes later you had the 100 fastest men in the country set off, then following that you have 40000 of everyone set off behind the men. You'd then have a festival of running, with appropriate coverage for the fastest women running a solo event and the coverage they deserve, and also everyone gets to take part in an inclusive 10km event together.

Just don't call it anything-marathon.

For example, the Great Ireland Run, which follows more or less that set up and was televised last Sunday.

pgmcpq

munkee wrote: »

Tangent/factoid- just watched 'Run For Your Life', about Fred Lebow, the guy who started the NYC marathon (it's a good film, worth a look).

He created the first all women 'Crazy Legs Mini Marathon' in NY, to encourage women to race. Part of the reason he chose 'mini' was because mini skirts were in vogue at the time. Gotta love the 70s.

More here and here.

Personally, I think men running the mini-marathon is a bit sad. There are tons of other events to take part in to raise money for charity.

This ^^^^^

But further, remember that women were not allowed run marathons (for risk of having their insides fall out etc :rolleyes: ). So the mini marathon name was attempt to open running to women with the "glamour' of the marathon. Kathrine Switers's biography "Marathon Woman" is worth reading. This may be less relevant today - but sports remain male dominated - so anything that gets people out - and this race certainly does - is to be supported.
By the way - in NY at least the name does not seem to deter the elites - so who am I to scoff.

Re men in the race: please no, taking the p**s for cheap laughs ... really ? There's lot's of other races that could be run together.

Birdie Num Num

robinph wrote: »

I'm not overly keen on the idea of the womens only race without a male equivalent. But then I'd also not be keen on the idea of a men only equivalent.

There is obviously the Arc Men's mini marathon, not sure if previously mentioned in this thread and I am not sure if it is exclusive to men. Think it has struggled to attract the numbers in the past. It begs the question as to why so many guys feel they have to dress up as women in the Women's mini marathon, using 'raising vital funds' as an excuse, when they could so easily take part in this event or raise funds in any other way.

Raising funds for whatever charity should not be the most important aspect about the Women's mini marathon or any other race. The most important aspect is that this event was set up for women. I respect that. It is an event that any woman can take part in for herself, primarily. If she wishes to run on behalf of a charity or in memory of a loved one, that's also her right.

ahnowbrowncow

walshb wrote: »

It's the only plausible reason.

Good man, showing your narrow mindedness once more.

Maybe there's men out there with wives, girlfriends, female relatives or friends who would like to do the race but have no one else to do it with or who need support and encouragement during the race but the only person they have to do that is male.