Led Strip Light.

galwaydude18

I'm wondering if I can wire this into the back of my Renault Trafic van http://www.ebay.ie/itm/ROBUS-5M-LED-Flexistrip-in-Remote-Controllable-RGB-IP67-R5MRGBK-IP-/360459899226?pt=UK_Light_Fittings&hash=item53ed15915a

I want to use it to light up the back of the van. I have one sitting idle in the shed.

Stavros Murphy

Surely that's 220v with a step-down transformer?

eringobragh

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Surely that's 220v with a step-down transformer?

Its 12v its stepped down to so will be fine...also thats wayyyyyyyy overprice :P

galwaydude18

Ya its 220v with a stepdown transformer. The van is 12v so how do I use 220v transformer into the light system? I usually put a plug on the end of the transformer and plug it into a socket.

Zubeneschamali

galwaydude18 wrote: »

I want to use it to light up the back of the van.

You do mean the interior, I hope.

eringobragh

galwaydude18 wrote: »

Ya its 220v with a stepdown transformer. The van is 12v so how do I use 220v transformer into the light system? I usually put a plug on the end of the transformer and plug it into a socket.

straight wire to the vehicle - no need for the transformer

Stavros Murphy

eringobragh wrote: »

straight wire to the vehicle - no need for the transformer

DC or AC 12V though?? Stepped down by the transformer I mean.. I'm guessing AC, in which case...

galwaydude18

Ya its to light up the interior of the van. Does it matter if it DC or AC? Ya its stepped down by the transformer.

eringobragh

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

DC or AC 12V though?? Stepped down by the transformer I mean.. I'm guessing AC, in which case...

Nope all transfromers I've ever seen are DC

EDIT: I have something similar to this and its 100% DC

Stavros Murphy

eringobragh wrote: »

Nope all transfromers I've ever seen are DC

EDIT: I have something similar to this and its 100% DC

Err, no. No they're not. I just pulled out the nearest trans from a light pack in the office(there's lots- work) and it's 220 - 24v AC, another is 220 - 9V AC...

eringobragh

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Err, no. No they're not. I just pulled out the nearest trans from a light pack in the office(there's lots- work) and it's 220 - 24v AC, another is 220 - 9V AC...

Hardly the same thing now -is that for LED office lights?

Stavros Murphy

eringobragh wrote: »

Hardly the same thing now -is that for LED office lights?

No, they're transformers for low-voltage lights, we use them on outdoor signs. Never considered this angle before, will AC LEDS tolerate 12v DC without issues? Maybe they will, I never tried tbh...opens a few angles as it happens...

I'm genuinely curios, no smart-pants angle to what I'm saying at all. Is it the AC switching that causes them to light or are they the same as DC leds?

eringobragh

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

No, they're transformers for low-voltage lights, we use them on outdoor signs. Never considered this angle before, will AC LEDS tolerate 12v DC without issues? Maybe they will, I never tried tbh...opens a few angles as it happens...

I'm genuinely curios, no smart-pants angle to what I'm saying at all.

I'm no electrician but I'm certain that what your on about is DC - AC is 120/220v ...........is there a symbol on the tranformer at all ?

Stavros Murphy

eringobragh wrote: »

I'm no electrician but I'm certain that what your on about is DC - AC is 120/220v ...........is there a symbol on the tranformer at all ?

No, you're taking me up wrong. The input to the tranny is 220v AC - alternating current. The output is 24V(eg) AC - alternating current. 12V DC is direct current, it doesn't switch back and forth like AC. So the output is 12V, but it's AC, not DC. A car battery is 12V DC.

fred funk }{

I bought an led 12vdc strip from dealxreme for about a fiver and wired it directly into the existing interior light. Lights up the entire van brilliantly.

eringobragh

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

No, you're taking me up wrong. The input to the tranny is 220v AC - alternating current. The output is 24V(eg) AC - alternating current. 12V DC is direct current, it doesn't switch back and forth like AC. So the output is 12V, but it's AC, not DC. A car battery is 12V DC.

- thats a game change from the offset - I'll eat my hat if any of these LED strips are anything but DC 12v

Stavros Murphy

eringobragh wrote: »

- thats a game change from the offset - I'll eat my hat if any of these LED strips are anything but DC 12v

If what Fred said is correct, it might not matter, and why it interests me is that a dedicated "vehicle" led strip is about fifty snots...but I have loads of "building" leds that cost peanuts - never dawned to try them on a van..might now!

Mycroft H

I would eat my hat if they're anything other than DC. LEDs don't work right on AC.

Stavros Murphy

Mycroft H wrote: »

I would eat my hat if they're anything other than DC. LEDs don't work right on AC.

Again, not so, we use 70watt Leds on direct 220v AC on loading bays - absolute stunning light out of them but it comes at a hefty purchase price but tiny running costs. The transformer sitting here on my desk is 24v AC output for a led light too. As it happens, I'd say if you can get me a 24v output DC transformer with 220v input, I'll eat my hat as I've tried before to run 24v DC hydraulic systems that way and gave up - too spendy(big dosh, not hundreds)- same goes for 12V DC output with usable amperage- mad money, and I don't mean chargers, I mean usable voltage/amperage.

slimjimmc

A simple check of the manufacturer's website confirms they're 12V LEDs but nothing to confirm if AC/DC.
http://www.ledgrouprobus.com/catalogue/l3/product?item_id=R5MRGBK-IP

Check the plate on the transformer, it will tell you the output is either 12V DC or 12V AC. If DC you can get rid of the transformer and you should be good to go, you might even be able to keep the remote controller.

Zubeneschamali

Some sorts of LED fixture have an AC-DC inverter built in, like the ones you can buy to stick in a 220V light fixture at home, but the actual LEDs run on DC. The clue is that the D stands for Diode.

keithclancy

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Again, not so, we use 70watt Leds on direct 220v AC on loading bays - absolute stunning light out of them but it comes at a hefty purchase price but tiny running costs. The transformer sitting here on my desk is 24v AC output for a led light too. As it happens, I'd say if you can get me a 24v output DC transformer with 220v input, I'll eat my hat as I've tried before to run 24v DC hydraulic systems that way and gave up - too spendy(big dosh, not hundreds)- same goes for 12V DC output with usable amperage- mad money, and I don't mean chargers, I mean usable voltage/amperage.

I think in that case the rectifier is built into the LED itself.

Very unusual though and not common at all due to the high risk of failure within the LED unit itself which can cause an electrical fire.

I wouldn't be buying anything like that of Alibaba or some other chinese wholesale site

Zubeneschamali

keithclancy wrote: »

I think in that case the rectifier is built into the LED itself. Very unusual though and not common

You haven't been in a hardware shop lately, any bulb that isn't halogen is an LED with a built in rectifier.

ted1

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Again, not so, we use 70watt Leds on direct 220v AC on loading bays - absolute stunning light out of them but it comes at a hefty purchase price but tiny running costs. The transformer sitting here on my desk is 24v AC output for a led light too. As it happens, I'd say if you can get me a 24v output DC transformer with 220v input, I'll eat my hat as I've tried before to run 24v DC hydraulic systems that way and gave up - too spendy(big dosh, not hundreds)- same goes for 12V DC output with usable amperage- mad money, and I don't mean chargers, I mean usable voltage/amperage.

Most LEDs are either mains or 12v DC I have yet to see one that takes 12V AC.
Diodes can only take very little reverse bias.


There is a huge difference between the current needed to drive a hydraulic system and that needed for LEDs. I don't think your fit to comment on the matter

galwaydude18

Here's the info on the transformer. I take it I can disconnect the led from the transformer and take out an interior light and use the connection there for the power source?

ted1

galwaydude18 wrote: »

Here's the info on the transformer. I take it I can disconnect the led from the transformer and take out an interior light and use the connection there for the power source?

You dont need the transformer. The car is already 12V DC

Stavros Murphy

ted1 wrote: »

Most LEDs are either mains or 12v DC I have yet to see one that takes 12V AC.

There is a huge difference between the current needed to drive a hydraulic system and that needed for LEDs. I don't think your fit to comment on the matter

Go way! Who knew. I said a mains 220v DC to 24V AC Transformer with a usable amperage - my comment on that had nothing to do with LEDS.

On the Leds front, I merely commented that the transformer sitting here staring at me is 24v AC output, which it is. It has a 850 mA output, which is tiny and is used to drive a single LED unit. And I'm not too bothered whether you think I'm fit to comment or not. I repair 380V loading bays and pretty damn complex PCB units no-one else will touch on a daily basis and said already I'm no expert on LEDS. I was happily learning a bit about them before you decided to poke me in the ear.

galwaydude18

That's great. One of the interior lights has been severed off by someone in the past so can I just use the wires there and connect the led directly to that?

Zubeneschamali

Even if they are listed as 12V DC, that doesn't mean they are rated for use off a car or van electric system. Car voltage could run up to 15V, or down to 10V, and can suffer big spikes as you start up.

galwaydude18

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Even if they are listed as 12V DC, that doesn't mean they are rated for use off a car or van electric system. Car voltage could run up to 15V, or down to 10V, and can suffer big spikes as you start up.

OK what should I do in that case so?

ted1

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Go way! Who knew. I said a mains 220v DC to 24V AC Transformer with a usable amperage - my comment on that had nothing to do with LEDS.

On the Leds front, I merely commented that the transformer sitting here staring at me is 24v AC output, which it is. It has a 850 mA output, which is tiny and is used to drive a single LED unit. And I'm not too bothered whether you think I'm fit to comment or not. I repair 380V loading bays and pretty damn complex PCB units no-one else will touch on a daily basis and said already I'm no expert on LEDS. I was happily learning a bit about them before you decided to poke me in the ear.

But the OP was asking specifically about LED and your only confusing the issue.

What type LED are you driving with the 24v AC supply have you the make and model handy because it's very uncommon.

galwaydude18

Ok I have a robus R5MWWK 5m warm light led strip IP20 that I can use. The transformer in the pic is the one that belongs to the white led strip light

colm_mcm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You haven't been in a hardware shop lately, any bulb that isn't halogen is an LED with a built in rectifier.

What about CFLs?

Zubeneschamali

galwaydude18 wrote: »

OK what should I do in that case so?

Well, they won't explode in a nuclear blast or anything. If the electronics aren't up to it, they'll just fail, and no more lights.

A surge protector guaranteed to protect them would probably cost more than the LEDs.

Zubeneschamali

colm_mcm wrote: »

What about CFLs?

I think those are just for prisons and orphanages.

colm_mcm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I think those are just for prisons and orphanages.

These yokes?



My house is full of em, thought I was being cutting edge!

Zubeneschamali

colm_mcm wrote: »

These yokes?

Well, the ladies buy some of those for other reasons...

but as actual lightbulbs, no. Stick to halogens or LEDs. And be careful with the LEDs, some of them are a very strange colour.

colm_mcm

LEDs are still too expensive for the gaff. once they hit a reasonable price I might buy some.

Halogens are a joke, constantly need changing.

galwaydude18

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Well, they won't explode in a nuclear blast or anything. If the electronics aren't up to it, they'll just fail, and no more lights.

A surge protector guaranteed to protect them would probably cost more than the LEDs.

What's your advice about wiring them into the van then? I don't want to screw uo the electrics in a 08 van

TheChizler

galwaydude18 wrote: »

What's your advice about wiring them into the van then? I don't want to screw uo the electrics in a 08 van

Any idea what the power rating on the old light was and the new one is? Just be careful when choosing the fuses. If they're similar you won't have to change the fuse. If considerably different choose a fuse rating proportional to the current one at the same proportion as the powers, if that makes sense.

If the power consumption is maybe twice or more the old lighting I'd think about updating the wiring as it might not be able to handle the current. You don't want to go starting fires...

Don't worry about voltage fluctuations, unless the LEDs are either high spec and expensive or really terrible and cheap they'll handle normal fluctuations. Have a look at the data sheet (if they come with one) and it will tell you what is acceptable.

galwaydude18

TheChizler wrote: »

Any idea what the power rating on the old light was and the new one is? Just be careful when choosing the fuses. If they're similar you won't have to change the fuse. If considerably different choose a fuse rating proportional to the current one at the same proportion as the powers, if that makes sense.

If the power consumption is maybe twice or more the old lighting I'd think about updating the wiring as it might not be able to handle the current. You don't want to go starting fires...

Right this seems to be more difficult than I thought it would be. I think I need a pro to do it for me :-(

colm_mcm

Would you not just get other LED lights, what's the craic with having christmas lights in the back of the van?

TheChizler

galwaydude18 wrote: »

Right this seems to be more difficult than I thought it would be. I think I need a pro to do it for me :-(

In all likelihood it will be grand but I would never advise someone to risk it you know? If they work without the fuse blowing you should be fine from a safety point of view. Not the end of the world if the LEDs blow. And pretty unlikely.

galwaydude18

colm_mcm wrote: »

Would you not just get other LED lights, what's the craic with having christmas lights in the back of the van?

I have these for free. I want good light in the back of the van. Sick of crap light in the back of vans

galwaydude18

TheChizler wrote: »

In all likelihood it will be grand but I would never advise someone to risk it you know? If they work without the fuse blowing you should be fine from a safety point of view. Not the end of the world if the LEDs blow. And pretty unlikely.

Would it only blow the fuse for the lights or cause more serious electrical issues than that?

Nekarsulm

With the best Will in the world, after that last question, I think you should pay an expert and not go near your vans wiring yourself.

TheChizler

galwaydude18 wrote: »

Would it only blow the fuse for the lights or cause more serious electrical issues than that?

Just the fuse for the lights. If it's the correct fuse in the first place!! The fuse in the panel is primarily to prevent the wiring in the circuit from overheating, and should be selected in accordance with the maximum safe current the wires can take. The devices would be rated at less current than the circuit, and normally have fuses of their own, or in the case of lighting, act as a fuse itself and blow (hopefully safely!).

Secondarily the fuses in the box can be selected to protect the devices as well as the wiring, normally if they don't have fuses of their own.

So basically, if you don't touch the fuse (and the LEDs don't draw more current than the original lights [you'll know this by the fuse not blowing when you turn them on, ideally with the engine running]) the wiring will be fine but the LEDs might blow at some stage.

Zubeneschamali

TheChizler wrote: »

the LEDs might blow at some stage.

You don't have any expensive audio equipment in the van, right?

If not, and you don't care about the LEDs, try it, your car will not explode from some 12V LEDs being connected.

If the LEDs are going to blow, it'll probably be the first time you start the van.

galwaydude18

OK I have them wired into the back of the van now. They are lighting up. Next question is how do I get them to turn off like the normal lights do? I sat in the van for 10mins and they didn't turn off so I have them disconnected now

Zubeneschamali

galwaydude18 wrote: »

ONext question is how do I get them to turn off like the normal lights do?

You've wired it to the same circuit as an existing light, so they should turn off. There's usually a 3 position switch somewhere for "on all the time", "off all the time" and "turns-off-when-you-close-the-doors".

galwaydude18

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You've wired it to the same circuit as an existing light, so they should turn off. There's usually a 3 position switch somewhere for "on all the time", "off all the time" and "turns-off-when-you-close-the-doors".

Ya the same circuit as the existing light. I had to use connector blocks as there was only a small bit if wire sticking out from where the old wire was connected and used the positive and negative from that and the led light to connect it all up. Here in the van.now and no sign of them to to turn off. I even fully disconnected the other interior light