Car Tax rip off?

readytosnap

Maybe this should be in rip off Ireland, but i am putting it here cos it is to do with Motor tax.
So the story is, bought a used car on march 24th, the RF101 arrived today (4/4)
checked the situation about declaring the car off the road for march ( wasn't used) I would of had to declare the car off the road for minimum of 3 months. Plan was go into tax car in April for 3 months. However this must be done within 10 days of the date of change of ownership. I enquired at the tax office and they told me I needed the RF101 to do this ( so as to prove date I bought the car) as it has arrived today 11 days after the purchase date I cannot declare the car off the road for march, so not only am I liable for the last week of march (when I bought the car but didn't use it) but also for the first 24 days of march when I never even owned the car. Now I could just be a paranoid Cnut but the RF101 was sent by registered mail and was received by the tax office in Clare on Fri 25th March. so why the convenient 11th day arrival? I wonder how many other people have been caught out by this con?.
Paranoia or not I am convinced they delay the returning of the form to just rip us off. RANT OVER.

Guy:Incognito

11 days would be considered a decent turn around time since long before the recent changes to the tax system.

Voodoomelon

Have you worked out what the first 23 days will cost you? Is it really worth getting wound up about.

EDIT: just saw your username, maybe it is then.

readytosnap

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

11 days would be considered a decent turn around time since long before the recent changes to the tax system.

Well on that basis they should allow 14 days instead of 10.

readytosnap

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Have you worked out what the first 23 days will cost you? Is it really worth getting wound up about.

EDIT: just saw your username, maybe it is then.

€38.50 per month arrears, it's not just the €38.50 its the rip off thats irritating me. I should be able to go and tax for 3 months at €108 till end of June, instead I have to fork out €146.50 for 3 months.

MadYaker

ardmacha

A whole €1.25 per day! Terrible.

readytosnap

ardmacha wrote: »

A whole €1.25 per day! Terrible.

well if it's so little why dont you pay it for me? you are as much liable for it as I am!.

This is about a rip off con by the government, not about me giving them money I don't owe them.

dantastic

Seems to me a wee bit of research beforehand would have averted this situation completely. Can't see how you are being 'ripped off'.

Guy:Incognito

readytosnap wrote: »

Well on that basis they should allow 14 days instead of 10.

That's a different argument though. Why don't you asked the relevant people. Your first issue was that you reckon they are deliberately delaying sending you the VRC to cost you in arrears, which is what I replied to .

corktina

ther is no minimum period you can declare a cr off the road for, you can declare it off today , change your mind and tax it tomorrow. I don't know why they say 3,6 or 12 months, it's meaningless.

Soarer

The brother in law wanted to declare his car off the road online yesterday. It hasn't been insured or driven this year, and the tax ran out at the end of March.
Turns out that because the tax is out, he can't declare it off the road. He has to tax it first, then declare it off the road.

This is online like. Might be different face to face.

corktina

Doubt it. Should have been declared before the tax ran out

readytosnap

dantastic wrote: »

Seems to me a wee bit of research beforehand would have averted this situation completely. Can't see how you are being 'ripped off'.

What research are you referring to? I rang the local tax office and was told i need the RF101 before i can declare the car off the road. as soon as i got the RF101 i went to the tax office (today) the 11th day after the sale. the info on the government website states that the otr application must be made within 10 days of the sale, so make sure the seller posts asap. I followed the instructions and am being penalised for their (shannon) slow turn around.

Further to initial rant, I went ot the tax office (local) and explained the situation to the clerk, she was very helpful but couldn't do anything about the arrears as it was the 11th day, then she informed me that you DO NOT need the RF101 to declare it off the road, I then explained that I rang this office and enquired and was told by a female that I did need it, she insisted that you don't need it and that she certainly would not of told me that on the phone, There are 5 women working in that office so at least 1 of them doesn't know the procedure.
end of the day I taxed the car for 3 months and had to pay for March, now no matter how many people come on here saying "shuda wudda cudda", I still had to pay tax on a vehicle that I didn't own, so hopefully someone might not get caught by this situation after reading this post.

Gumbo

readytosnap wrote: »

What research are you referring to? I rang the local tax office and was told i need the RF101 before i can declare the car off the road. as soon as i got the RF101 i went to the tax office (today) the 11th day after the sale. the info on the government website states that the otr application must be made within 10 days of the sale, so make sure the seller posts asap. I followed the instructions and am being penalised for their (shannon) slow turn around.

Further to initial rant, I went ot the tax office (local) and explained the situation to the clerk, she was very helpful but couldn't do anything about the arrears as it was the 11th day, then she informed me that you DO NOT need the RF101 to declare it off the road, I then explained that I rang this office and enquired and was told by a female that I did need it, she insisted that you don't need it and that she certainly would not of told me that on the phone, There are 5 women working in that office so at least 1 of them doesn't know the procedure.
end of the day I taxed the car for 3 months and had to pay for March, now no matter how many people come on here saying "shuda wudda cudda", I still had to pay tax on a vehicle that I didn't own, so hopefully someone might not get caught by this situation after reading this post.

You bought the car on the 24th of march so you did own it and are liable for march motor tax.

Common sense would of put the 1st April as the sale date, or wait until the 1st of April to do the deal or indeed print the rf101 form from online and check your vehicle transaction online on motortax.ie to see when it goes into your name and then do it straight away.

kona

I have to say I'm very suprised , I find the motor tax system to be very fair.:rolleyes:

corktina

It's a fair system once everyone pays their dues. As someone who always pays his Motor Tax before the due date, it is me that has cause to complain of unfairness when people don't pay as required and get away with it. The system is too lax

readytosnap

kceire wrote: »

You bought the car on the 24th of march so you did own it and are liable for march motor tax.

Common sense would of put the 1st April as the sale date, or wait until the 1st of April to do the deal or indeed print the rf101 form from online and check your vehicle transaction online on motortax.ie to see when it goes into your name and then do it straight away.

I wanted to declare the car off the road (because it was off the road) and was prevented from doing so. thanks for the hindsight though.

slimjimmc

corktina wrote: »

ther is no minimum period you can declare a cr off the road for, you can declare it off today , change your mind and tax it tomorrow. I don't know why they say 3,6 or 12 months, it's meaningless.

The minimum period of between 3-12 months they refer to applies only to the expiry of the declaration you made, it has nothing to do with how long you must keep the car off the road. For example if you declared that your car will be off for the next 4 months then that declaration will automatically expire after the 4th month (if you haven't taxed it prior) and you must either tax it or declare it off for another 3-12 months.
http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/QA-DeclaringaVehicleOffTheRoad/

Jesus.

I have to be honest, that is one weak-ass OP. I thought I was going to read something about someone being genuinely ripped off - like the extortionate price of the tax itself

Seriously lad, is a few pound like that really worth winding yourself up over?

Jesus.

corktina wrote: »

It's a fair system once everyone pays their dues. As someone who always pays his Motor Tax before the due date, it is me that has cause to complain of unfairness when people don't pay as required and get away with it. The system is too lax

Well that's just nonsense now mate. Of course its not fair. Its extortion, pure and simple.

OP, why did it take you 11 days to get the form? Why didn't you go down and pick one up or print one off the Net?

readytosnap

Jesus. wrote: »

I have to be honest, that is one weak-ass OP. I thought I was going to read something about someone being genuinely ripped off - like the extortionate price of the tax itself

Seriously lad, is a few pound like that really worth winding yourself up over?

Ok maybe I should clear up a few points seeing as it is Jesus
The car in question is my daughters, I didn't bother with all the daughter this daughter that info ( not that, that should matter), so I was speaking for her and having a little rant about the situation, regardless of whether it is 1 euro or a hundred euro in my (our) opinion it was a rip off, obviously many on here do not agree with that and I find it very hard to believe that those who disagree would just hand over the cash no questions asked unless, that is, they have plenty of it. Now for a young woman working part time earning less than 40 euro a week more than she would get on the dole, 38.50 is a lot of money.

So in reply to your question Jesus, for me (us) yes, it is worth getting wound up over, there are many things in life that wind us up, somethings may wind you up but not bother me in the slightest. I was trying to make a point (albeit a rambling one) about the situation but as is the norm on boards, you get a variety of responses, some constructive, others not so. others resort to calling names, others offer smart ass (most likely from the people who do everything right and never make mistakes) comments, thats the way of boards.

No matter what anyone on here says, we tried to do the right thing and we were given the wrong information by the local tax office and the delay in getting the RF101 back resulted in my daughter having to cough up 38.50
I think that is wrong and so does she.

readytosnap

Jesus. wrote: »

Well that's just nonsense now mate. Of course its not fair. Its extortion, pure and simple.

OP, why did it take you 11 days to get the form? Why didn't you go down and pick one up or print one off the Net?

im talking about the log book RF101 they have to be issued by shannon??

DanWall

kona wrote: »

I have to say I'm very suprised , I find the motor tax system to be very fair.:rolleyes:

If you buy a car on the 30th of the month, you must pay for the whole month (from the 1st)

readytosnap

Maybe I have led many to misunderstand the situation I was referring to the LOG BOOK I called it RF101 because that is what it says on the back left corner of it. is it not called that? I meant the Log Book not the form that you fill in for taxing the car, sorry if I caused confusion.


DOH its called the registration certificate (log book) my mistake
but thats what the delay was.

Stheno

readytosnap wrote: »

Maybe I have led many to misunderstand the situation I was referring to the LOG BOOK I called it RF101 because that is what it says on the back left corner of it. is it not called that? I meant the Log Book not the form that you fill in for taxing the car, sorry if I caused confusion.


DOH its called the registration certificate (log book) my mistake
but thats what the delay was.

You don't need that to declare a car off the road

From http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/QA-DeclaringaVehicleOffTheRoad/#Q14

Q14. I’ve just bought a vehicle – how can I make a declaration that I intend to keep it off the road for a while?

A14. If you have just bought a new vehicle or just acquired a second hand one and do not intend to use it immediately, you will have ten days from the date of purchase (as specified in the registration document or the notification of transfer of vehicle ownership) to furnish a declaration of non-use. In that case, the declaration will commence from the first day of the month in which the sale takes place, or the first day of the month of registration in the case of new vehicles.

Make sure you notify the seller that you are intending to declare the vehicle off the road and that you need him or her to ensure that the change of ownership is notified to the National Vehicle and Driver File as soon as possible.

The form you use to declare it off the road is the RF150 form.

Google could have been your friend, you could have double checked it.

Out of curiosity how did you get the car from the seller to the buyer?

readytosnap

Stheno wrote: »

You don't need that to declare a car off the road

From http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/QA-DeclaringaVehicleOffTheRoad/#Q14




The form you use to declare it off the road is the RF150 form.

Google could have been your friend, you could have double checked it.

Out of curiosity how did you get the car from the seller to the buyer?

Did you read my post? I checked online and got the info you put up, then I rang the local tax office and they told me that I needed the log book ( so they could verify the date of purchase ). Turns out I only needed the RF150, like I have said several times I was given incorrect information by the local tax office. The seller brought the car to the buyer.

Stheno

readytosnap wrote: »

Did you read my post? I checked online and got the info you put up, then I rang the local tax office and they told me that I needed the log book ( so they could verify the date of purchase ). Turns out I only needed the RF150, like I have said several times I was given incorrect information by the local tax office. The seller brought the car to the buyer.

Did you not query it with them and point them to the website? I'd have done that tbh, or asked to speak to a supervisor.

Jesus.

readytosnap wrote: »

im talking about the log book

Ah! You never said! Well, that's different alright.

I know what you're saying mate but we do live in a Rip-off Republic. I guess the way I'd look at that is that its best to be ripped off by 38 quid than by 380 or 3,800 which easily does happen in this Country. So yes, in effect, you should probably be happy with only being ripped off to a small degree when living in Ireland.

If I was only ripped off by 38 notes anytime I do anything in this land, I'd be a pretty happy Saviour of Mankind

readytosnap

Stheno wrote: »

Did you not query it with them and point them to the website? I'd have done that tbh, or asked to speak to a supervisor.

well obviously I didn't I thought I could fill out the RF150 and hand it in but it does not make it clear that you don't need the log book on the gov website in fact the last sentence would leave one to believe that the log book was required.

"Make sure you notify the seller that you are intending to declare the vehicle off the road and that you need him or her to ensure that the change of ownership is notified to the National Vehicle and Driver File as soon as possible."

Stheno

readytosnap wrote: »

well obviously I didn't I thought I could fill out the RF150 and hand it in but it does not make it clear that you don't need the log book on the gov website in fact the last sentence would leave one to believe that the log book was required.

"Make sure you notify the seller that you are intending to declare the vehicle off the road and that you need him or her to ensure that the change of ownership is notified to the National Vehicle and Driver File as soon as possible."

I read that completely differently as in it's saying in paragraph two to do your declaration, and make sure then in that one above that the seller sends off the logbook.

Bruthal

ardmacha wrote: »

A whole €1.25 per day! Terrible.

A yea, a post from a genius no doubt.

If your TV licence went up to 1.25 a day, and ESB bill increased by 1.25 a day, I'm sure you'd be seeing it differently.

readytosnap

Stheno wrote: »

I read that completely differently as in it's saying in paragraph two to do your declaration, and make sure then in that one above that the seller sends off the logbook.

Well that proves my theory that it isn't clear enough ( we both see it differntly) the wording should say
"you do not need the registration cert to declare the car off the road just the RF150"
ah well at least I know now and so does anyone who has read the thread ( if they didn't already)

Stheno

readytosnap wrote: »

Well that proves my theory that it isn't clear enough ( we both see it differntly) the wording should say
"you do not need the registration cert to declare the car off the road just the RF150"
ah well at least I know now and so does anyone who has read the thread ( if they didn't already)

You think it's bad the tax office didn't know it.

I once rang the revenue to query a slightly obscure piece of the tax regulations, and was told it was wrong.

I did point them to the revenue site and they looked it up, giggled down the phone and said "well you learn something new every day"

slimjimmc

Stheno wrote: »

You don't need that to declare a car off the road

Form RF150 has a field for the VRC number, is this optional?
If not, how is the new owner supposed to complete this field, does the VRC number not change with each issuance?

power pants

corktina wrote: »

It's a fair system once everyone pays their dues. As someone who always pays his Motor Tax before the due date, it is me that has cause to complain of unfairness when people don't pay as required and get away with it. The system is too lax

it's a fair system? :rolleyes:

I havent paid road tax in almost a year now, will never bother either. Ill see how long my luck runs, done well so far :cool:

mlumley

ardmacha wrote: »

A whole €1.25 per day! Terrible.

OK, you go to Tesco, and see how you would like it if they charged you €1.25 a day for not using their store, youd soon shout foul. :eek:

I see what the op is saying, why should he be charged for when he didn't own the car.

The truth is, its greedy government, not much you can do about it, except try your local TD.

Jesus.

power pants wrote: »

it's a fair system? :rolleyes:
I havent paid road tax in almost a year now, will never bother either. Ill see how long my luck runs, done well so far :cool:

Even though I always pay mine, I do have some sympathy for that kind of action. There comes a tipping point when people say "you know what, enough's enough. This is outrageous. I refuse to comply."

The Government have taken the piss so much with the ludicrous tax system we have, they are forcing compliance rates down and mistrust in authority at the same time. Motor tax rates have been a farce for a long time now and its no wonder there's so many people that won't pay it.

More power to ye power

ironclaw

Bruthal wrote: »

A yea, a post from a genius no doubt.

If your TV licence went up to 1.25 a day, and ESB bill increased by 1.25 a day, I'm sure you'd be seeing it differently.

My car costs about €2.50 per day just sitting on the drive way. Thats insured and taxed. Add a little maintenance, and it probably averages closer to €3. If I drive it, its costs on average €11 every single day of the year.

If your worried about €2 in the motor game then you have bigger problems ahead. Cars are expensive. Can people just deal with that or get the bus / cycle? Cheers.

visual

ironclaw wrote: »

My car costs about €2.50 per day just sitting on the drive way. Thats insured and taxed. Add a little maintenance, and it probably averages closer to €3. If I drive it, its costs on average €11 every single day of the year.

If your worried about €2 in the motor game then you have bigger problems ahead. Cars are expensive. Can people just deal with that or get the bus / cycle? Cheers.

Just imagen you found a 4 liter car you always wanted it tax is out because 1809 euro a year is hard to come by. It close to the end of the month you have little option if you want to buy it other than trust a stranger to mind it for a week or so. Its not going to be used till next month you dig deeper into your pocket and willing to pay 500 euro for 3 months only to discover they Gov want last monts tax and your not legally able to drive it because it hasn't got a current tax disk. You have 10 days from buying car to declare it off the road but the car take 11 + days to transfer to your name.

So being obliged to pay tax for a period you didnt get to use and if you had wanted to it would be illegal.

Its gotten like this because of Sheep minded people only too willing to accept any crap

ironclaw

visual wrote: »

Just imagen you found a 4 liter car you always wanted it tax is out because 1809 euro a year is hard to come by. It close to the end of the month you have little option if you want to buy it other than trust a stranger to mind it for a week or so. Its not going to be used till next month you dig deeper into your pocket and willing to pay 500 euro for 3 months only to discover they Gov want last monts tax and your not legally able to drive it because it hasn't got a current tax disk. You have 10 days from buying car to declare it off the road but the car take 11 + days to transfer to your name.

If you can afford to run and insure a 4L car and €1800 a year in tax, a months backtax is pretty meaningless to you. If you are that tight that you arn't prepared to pay it or don't have the sense to legally evade it, then you probably shouldn't be buying that car. The tax will be the least of your expenses. And when purchasing such vehicles, I accept that. Its the same with any high value, high tax commodity.

Granted its unfair but on the grand scale of things, its a drop in the ocean of the money your going to be spending overall. For instance, one months back tax in that band is €180.90. I could easily put €120 to €150 in a car every week. So in three weeks of ownership, you've spent the back tax.

I don't spend my evenings lighting the fire with €50's but I understand that there is stuff worth getting riled about and things that overall, are just not worth it because they are so insignificant in the grand scheme.

Stheno

visual wrote: »

Just imagen you found a 4 liter car you always wanted it tax is out because 1809 euro a year is hard to come by. It close to the end of the month you have little option if you want to buy it other than trust a stranger to mind it for a week or so. Its not going to be used till next month you dig deeper into your pocket and willing to pay 500 euro for 3 months only to discover they Gov want last monts tax and your not legally able to drive it because it hasn't got a current tax disk. You have 10 days from buying car to declare it off the road but the car take 11 + days to transfer to your name.

So being obliged to pay tax for a period you didnt get to use and if you had wanted to it would be illegal.

Its gotten like this because of Sheep minded people only too willing to accept any crap

I have a "thing" about being tax compliant, comes from living in Laois and the amount of checkpoints and evil judges there.

I bought my last car on the 31/11 and went to tax it.

I included the November.

The wan in the tax office told me I was a fool and should go to the copshop and declare it off the road for that time (this was pre the current rules)

I said no thanks as I'd gone through tolls etc and paid up.

What's so wrong with that? I drove the car, used it on the roads, and paid what I was supposed to

power pants

do what you want

Jesus.

visual wrote: »

Just imagen you found a 4 liter car you always wanted it tax is out because 1809 euro a year is hard to come by

1800 quid for a years tax. Seriously lads, have you ever heard the likes?

Can anyone name me one other Country in the whole World that has such a ludicrous Motor tax system?

bigboss1986

Jesus. wrote: »

1800 quid for a years tax. Seriously lads, have you ever heard the likes?

Can anyone name me one other Country in the whole World that has such a ludicrous Motor tax system?

In Japan NCT cost 700-800 euro

Vizzy

readytosnap wrote: »

I wanted to declare the car off the road (because it was off the road) and was prevented from doing so. thanks for the hindsight though.

How did you get the car home ?

Stheno

Vizzy wrote: »

How did you get the car home ?

Seller apparently delivered it and they did no test drive?

JohnBoy26

Stheno wrote: »

I have a "thing" about being tax compliant, comes from living in Laois and the amount of checkpoints and evil judges there.

I bought my last car on the 31/11 and went to tax it.

I included the November.

The wan in the tax office told me I was a fool and should go to the copshop and declare it off the road for that time (this was pre the current rules)

I said no thanks as I'd gone through tolls etc and paid up.

What's so wrong with that? I drove the car, used it on the roads, and paid what I was supposed to

So you used your car for less than one whole day of the month and then back taxed it for the 30 days prior to your ownership, paying for someone else's arrears? Sorry but If this is the case I'd have to agree with the "wan" in the tax office.

So what if you went through tolls. You had a good excuse to wait one more day, I highly doubt you'd of got in any trouble tbh.

readytosnap

Vizzy wrote: »

How did you get the car home ?

read the comments and you will find your answer.

Stheno wrote: »

Seller apparently delivered it and they did no test drive?

The car was bought from a friend we knew the car and its history and had previously driven the car.
Sorry to disappoint y'all, stay focused on the topic instead of trying to find fault with the circumstances.

Bruthal

Stheno wrote: »

I have a "thing" about being tax compliant, comes from living in Laois and the amount of checkpoints and evil judges there.

I bought my last car on the 31/11 and went to tax it.

I included the November.

The wan in the tax office told me I was a fool and should go to the copshop and declare it off the road for that time (this was pre the current rules)

I said no thanks as I'd gone through tolls etc and paid up.

What's so wrong with that? I drove the car, used it on the roads, and paid what I was supposed to

Yes well done there, straight to heaven for ye.

lomb

Paying the government 600+ euro on any kind of an enthusiast car when a 1liter car pays 160 odd or 1/4 of the rate is ridiculous, Its nothing more than begrudging anyone who likes a large engine. There is no way that a car weighing 1.2 tonne say is going to damage the roads 4 times more than a 1 tonne car.
The system is morally bankrupt so who cares if someone evades it. All cars should be taxed on road USAGE. ie weight. So a 1liter 1 tonne yaris pays half the tax of a 6 liter v12 2 tonne saloon. Or for simplicity the tax should be averaged so all cars pay the same.
Taxing on co2 is even more of a joke. CO2 is plant and tree fertiliser and is useful so the more that's produced the less it should cost to tax if morals came into it.