Dirty little mouth

jane82

Ive cut the carbs down hugely this past week compared to what Ive been eating. Kind of just out of a bulking stage you may call it.
Average day
Couple pints milk
3 egg omellette with two rashers 3 mushrooms and a tomato.
3 tablespoons of peanut butter and 4 large slices of ham.
Small potatoes 3 pork chops and broccoli.
Im exercising a fair bit kinda convict workout stuff and cycling. Trying to build muscle cut fat the usual.

Past few days my fouth feels like a sewer. Is this my body not used to a lower amount of carbs or is it unrelated. Will it pass?

generic2012

You could be in ketosis. How many carbs do you get in a day do you think? You're doing a lot of work for a person on low carbs and if you're timing your carbs around workouts it's very plausible that you're gone into ketosis. Is there any specific reason you're on low carb and how long do you plan to keep it up?

jane82

I just wanna see if the muscles are growing. Whilst bulking Id be eating huge amounts of bread and spuds just to kill the boredom of the constant good diet. I dont think Im too carb free am I?
I planned to keep going until sunday but now Im scared.

jane82

Actually sounds scarier than it is. Im just exhaling the ingredients in nail varnish remover cause Im burning fat instead of carbs. Grand so.

MaceFace

Highly unlikely you are in ketosis. Your carbs are not very low and your protein intake is high. Both should stop you going into ketosis.

Mellor

MaceFace wrote: »

Highly unlikely you are in ketosis. Your carbs are not very low and your protein intake is high. Both should stop you going into ketosis.

Depending on portions, carbs could be easily below 50g, which will have a lot of people in ketosis.
Moderate protein never stopped me for getting into ketosis either

MaceFace

Mellor wrote: »

Depending on portions, carbs could be easily below 50g, which will have a lot of people in ketosis.
Moderate protein never stopped me for getting into ketosis either

The milk alone would have about 50g of carbs and assuming a small portion (150g) of potatoes, that's another 25g. Easy to see another 10-20g in the rest of the daily diet.
Protein wise, there is about 170g protein there.

Overall, this diet looks like it's about 2000 calories and for someone who is...

Im exercising a fair bit kinda convict workout stuff and cycling. Trying to build muscle cut fat the usual.

If 2000 calories is maintenance with this exercise, the amount of protein could be quite large (as you would be reasonably small in stature or female).

Protein is 58% anti-ketegonic so if 2000 is maintenance, 170g protein would be high for a keto diet considering there is already close to 100g of carbs already in the diet.

If this is a cutting diet, then I find it bizarre as milk and peanut butter are strange food choices for losing weight.

Of course another major problem here is a snapshot of a diet was posted. What are eaten on other days and weekends, any cheats etc.

OP, you say your mouth "feels" like a sewer. I assume you mean texture wise and not taste. A symptom of Ketosis is a bad taste (almost like metal) in your mouth.

jane82

Nope not like metal just feels like morning breath/mouth all day. Maybe its a cold coming on or something. Should I cut protein when cutting? Would that mean I have to either carry around a gut or lose muscle building time?
Ive ran out of peanut butter Ill eat something else instead for a week its just very handy yet disgusting. Maybe its the peanut butter causing the sewer mouth I only started that last week.

Oh 2000 isnt maintenance Im male 5 8 11 stone. I cut calories to get a little belly fat off.

generic2012

jane82 wrote: »

I just wanna see if the muscles are growing. Whilst bulking Id be eating huge amounts of bread and spuds just to kill the boredom of the constant good diet. I dont think Im too carb free am I?
I planned to keep going until sunday but now Im scared.

jane82 wrote: »

Actually sounds scarier than it is. Im just exhaling the ingredients in nail varnish remover cause Im burning fat instead of carbs. Grand so.

Resistance training is hard to maintain and increase ('just wanna see if the muscles are growing') when on a ketogenic diet. Keto is all right for low intesnsity exercise like cycling and jogging but intense work uses carbs/glycogen predominately as fat is too slow to liberate to use for energy. There is nothing advantageous about burning fat instead of carbs when you are consuming more fat than carbs, it's 6 of one half a dozen of another, except fat isn't as efficient a fuel source as carbs.

MaceFace wrote: »

The milk alone would have about 50g of carbs and assuming a small portion (150g) of potatoes, that's another 25g. Easy to see another 10-20g in the rest of the daily diet.
Protein wise, there is about 170g protein there.

If 2000 calories is maintenance with this exercise, the amount of protein could be quite large (as you would be reasonably small in stature or female).

I'll just say I don't see any benefit to ketogenic diet myself to announce my bias! But I agree with you there, if you are going to implement it, fat should be higher and protein should be lower.

MaceFace wrote: »

If this is a cutting diet, then I find it bizarre as milk and peanut butter are strange food choices for losing weight.

You can lose weight with any foods, it's the amount of specific foods within the overall context of the diet that matters.

I think it's plausible that that diet could induce ketosis due to the amount of aerobic exercise being done. Ketosis is the use of fat as a fuel source in the absence of stored glycogen, not carbs per se. I don't know about getting into ketosis in a week with that amount of carbs though, again it's dependant on exericse.

MaceFace

jane82 wrote: »

Nope not like metal just feels like morning breath/mouth all day. Maybe its a cold coming on or something. Should I cut protein when cutting? Would that mean I have to either carry around a gut or lose muscle building time?
Ive ran out of peanut butter Ill eat something else instead for a week its just very handy yet disgusting. Maybe its the peanut butter causing the sewer mouth I only started that last week.

Oh 2000 isnt maintenance Im male 5 8 11 stone. I cut calories to get a little belly fat off.

I have no idea what causes morning breath/mouth all day. I spent 11 weeks in ketosis and just recently went back to eating carbs and didn't feel any real difference in my mouth except that the protein/fat food sources had different textures than carbs and my brain sometimes craved for something soft and creamy:)

Unless you want to be in ketosis, I personally would not cut protein if I was your height/weight. Its very satisfying and critical for preserving muscle on a cut. I am a strong believer in eating whatever you want as long as it fits your macros. You would need to limit your carbs quite a bit though.

jane82

11 weeks? Thats like dragon warrior stuff fair play to you. Could you draft a typical days eating there. Ill give it a go if there is nothing to exotic or expensive in it.

Mellor

MaceFace wrote: »

The milk alone would have about 50g of carbs and assuming a small portion (150g) of potatoes, that's another 25g.

I missed that milk was a couple of pints. Thought it was just a normal glass.

OP ketosis aside, That amount of milk when you want to lose fat is ridiculous.

jane82

Mellor wrote: »

MaceFace wrote: »

The milk alone would have about 50g of carbs and assuming a small portion (150g) of potatoes, that's another 25g. /quote]

I missed that milk was a couple of pints. Thought it was just a normal glass.

OP ketosis aside, That amount of milk when you want to lose fat is ridiculous.

But but but the protein.

MaceFace

generic2012 wrote: »

Resistance training is hard to maintain and increase ('just wanna see if the muscles are growing') when on a ketogenic diet. Keto is all right for low intesnsity exercise like cycling and jogging but intense work uses carbs/glycogen predominately as fat is too slow to liberate to use for energy. There is nothing advantageous about burning fat instead of carbs when you are consuming more fat than carbs, it's 6 of one half a dozen of another, except fat isn't as efficient a fuel source as carbs.

Sorry, but this is not correct. The people who have performance issues on a ketogenic diet tend to be those that are not fully adapted or flirt in and out of the diet. Once fully adapted after 3-4 weeks, there should be no issues with performance. Personally, I hit pb's while on a standard keto diet with no carb ups. I also always do 50 mins semi-intense cardio on rest days and 16 mins semi-intense cardio on lifting days. During my research into this last year, anyone who complained about poor performance was only on a keto diet for less than 2 weeks.

As to the advantages of a keto-diet and sourcing energy primarily from fat, I agree that I don't believe it makes much of a difference as long as protein intake is adequate.

Mellor

"jane82 wrote:

But but but the protein.

There are plenty of sources of protein without all the sugar and calories

Blacktie.

MaceFace wrote: »

Sorry, but this is not correct. The people who have performance issues on a ketogenic diet tend to be those that are not fully adapted or flirt in and out of the diet. Once fully adapted after 3-4 weeks, there should be no issues with performance. Personally, I hit pb's while on a standard keto diet with no carb ups. I also always do 50 mins semi-intense cardio on rest days and 16 mins semi-intense cardio on lifting days. During my research into this last year, anyone who complained about poor performance was only on a keto diet for less than 2 weeks.

As to the advantages of a keto-diet and sourcing energy primarily from fat, I agree that I don't believe it makes much of a difference as long as protein intake is adequate.

Wait are you saying you had a decent amount of protein intake? Cause protein can be used for glucose...

jane82

Everytime you think you have it figured out it all changes.
What happened to eating huge protein large fat and lowish carbs to making you look like superman?

MaceFace

jane82 wrote: »

11 weeks? Thats like dragon warrior stuff fair play to you. Could you draft a typical days eating there. Ill give it a go if there is nothing to exotic or expensive in it.

This is a copy/paste from my food log from two different days. Everything I consume is weighed or measured.

Food Protein Carbs Fat
150g Smoked Salmon 38 0 11
BulletProof Coffee 0 0 16

Round Steak (200g) 44 0 15
75g mushroms 1 2 0
Bulletproof Coffee 0 0 15

Bulletproof Coffee 0 0 15
290g cod 52 1 2
Veg Mix 150g 2 4 1
Oil 0 0 15
Ceaser Dressing 1 1 10
Cheese (50g) 13 0 18

40g Mixed Nuts 7 2 26
Cream Coffee 1 1 8
Daily Total 159 11 152

2048 calories

Food Protein Carbs Fat
2 eggs 15 0 15
2 sausages 10 5 10
Oil 0 0 10
Cream Coffee 0 0 9

Gammon Steak 32 1 18
2 eggs 15 0 15
1xHam 5.5 0 0

Bulletproof 0 0 15

360g salmon 72 0 47
Oil 0 0 10
Cauliflower 200g 3 4 0

152.5 10 149

1991 calories

As I (and others) said though, a keto diet is a personal preference but the jury is out (and maybe back in) as to it being more effective than a standard low calorie diet.

jane82

So I wouldnt be far off if I just ditched the potatoes and peanut butter and milk?

generic2012

jane82 wrote: »

Everytime you think you have it figured out it all changes.
What happened to eating huge protein large fat and lowish carbs to making you look like superman?

I don't think that was ever the case, lack of carbs will make your muscles look flatter and smaller from lack of glycogen than if you upped the carbs. Low carb diets are good for losing wait when someone isn't able to structure a calorie deficit with carbs in it and doesn't care about reduced performance, superman definitely loved carbs!

jane82

So its a matter of getting the carbs spot on to get rid of the little stomach fat rather than cutting right down on them?
Man its so much tougher than just looseing or gaining weight.

generic2012

jane82 wrote: »

So its a matter of getting the carbs spot on to get rid of the little stomach fat rather than cutting right down on them?
Man its so much tougher than just looseing or gaining weight.

Everyone has different ideas but I think that is lowering calories as much as you can without reducing performance, most people lose muscle when they cut purely because they don't have the carbs in their diet to perform, if you are set on really cutting calories and losing weight as quick as possible only consume your carbs before and after your workout and keep your current diet on the rest days and/or implement intermittent fasting of some sort. I alternated my diet like that for a long time but but I find keeping carbs the same throughout out the week, medium to low, but have a pre/post workout shake/meal of high GI carbs for performance (I only say high GI because it will then be low fat and protein which wont throw out your macros). I myself have always increased my lifts while losing weight, the only reason I ever up calories is for comfort with my diet. Fasted cardio is alot like cardio on keto physiologically, people always lose more weight with fed state cardio as they can do more work with the carbs so this off sets the calories from the carbs.

jane82

Thanks for that I will read up on a few of them terms I dont understand and get working on it. I suppose its been a matter of being too lazy to learn the complicated stuff and a bit of trial and error needed.

generic2012

jane82 wrote: »

Thanks for that I will read up on a few of them terms I dont understand and get working on it. I suppose its been a matter of being too lazy to learn the complicated stuff and a bit of trial and error needed.

The long and short of it here - cut as much calories as you can without affecting performance, including recovery.

It's not complicated at all, it just seems that way because of all the ideas and methods out there.

MaceFace

jane82 wrote: »

So its a matter of getting the carbs spot on to get rid of the little stomach fat rather than cutting right down on them?
Man its so much tougher than just looseing or gaining weight.

Not really. Eat under 50g of carbs a day consistently and you should enter ketosis. Whether you are in ketosis or not is irrelevant to the big picture. Consume less calories than you burn and you will lose weight. Eat enough protein to preserve muscle mass. Protein and fats will satisfy you more than carbs.
As others have said, being in ketosis will make you look somewhat flat is that really important? This is both due to low glycogen in muscles and the lower water your body retains while in keto.
The amount of carbs you eat (assuming protein is sufficient) makes not difference to whether you lose fat from your stomach area. You may think you have, but again, that's down to water loss.
Another important thing to consider here if you are going to do keto is that as your body retains less water, it also has less sodium so you do need to consume more sodium than you normally would. Personally, I have got light headed and dizzy after a heavy set before I realised this.

Again though - if you're just looking to lose fat, I would personally recommend 1.2g protein/lb & .45g fat/lb. The rest of your calories can be made up of whatever you like. (again, personal opinion and what I am doing now)

generic2012 wrote: »

Everyone has different ideas but I think that is lowering calories as much as you can without reducing performance, most people lose muscle when they cut purely because they don't have the carbs in their diet to perform, if you are set on really cutting calories and losing weight as quick as possible only consume your carbs before and after your workout and keep your current diet on the rest days and/or implement intermittent fasting of some sort. I alternated my diet like that for a long time but but I find keeping carbs the same throughout out the week, medium to low, but have a pre/post workout shake/meal of high GI carbs for performance (I only say high GI because it will then be low fat and protein which wont throw out your macros). I myself have always increased my lifts while losing weight, the only reason I ever up calories is for comfort with my diet. Fasted cardio is alot like cardio on keto physiologically, people always lose more weight with fed state cardio as they can do more work with the carbs so this off sets the calories from the carbs.

There are a number of issues I want to pull you up on in this reply.
While preservation of muscle is about lifting heavy and adequate protein, carbs are irrelevant. A person who is keto adapted should not see any degradation in performance.
Macro timing and IF make no difference to the big picture. Any potential result is negligible.
Last year when I was doing GVT I read a lot about the post workout carb intake but the benefits associated with this are so small to the big picture that it is irrelevant.
Fasted cardio is nothing like keto cardio from a physiological point of view. On Fasted (assuming one is not in a state of ketosis), the body looks for glucose as it's primary source. This glucose is either in the blood or produced from glycogen in the liver or muscles. If none exists, the body will then break down muscle and fat.
During ketosis, the body gets its energy primarily from fat (dietary or body) as it has adapted to not look for glucose and directly breaks down fat giving the energy.

JJayoo

Was expecting something else when I read the title

jane82

JJayoo wrote: »

Was expecting something else when I read the title

Yeah I thought itd be funny.