Is this really all there is?

loveisdivine

I've been feeling a little bit down/frustrated lately about certain things and I'm wondering if anyone else ever feels the same.

I don't like the structure of society at all. I think humans have created a complicated, hard and tiresome life for ourselves and I don't really see a way out of it. We spend the majority of our time working, a lot of us in jobs we have no real passion for.

Over the last few years my outlook on life has changed. I've realised that the only goal in life that actually matters is happiness. I am happy now, but I feel I could only achieve true fulfilment in a world entirely different to ours.

In my ideal world, my husband and I would live on a small piece of land. In ahouse we built ourselves using natural/sustainable resources. The majority of our food would come from our garden and anything esle we needed we could trade for. We would be in balance with environment around us. Unfortunately, to do that in this world I would need to win the lotto!
Now I know people will laugh when they read that, because people think I need a "reality check" and "thats now how the world works". But why can't the world work that way? No higher beings forced this style of living upon us, its something we have created. If some of us want to live differently, why can't we?

I'm just sad because humans are capable of great things, our advancements in technology are astounding, but I feel our own lives are very limited to what we can actually do.

Penny Tration

It doesn't work that way simply because people don't want it to.


It's a shame, but I don't think we'll change how the world works, not in this lifetime.

Tbh, when I see threads like this, I have to say that I don't think you're doing yourself much good brooding on it.

You say you're happy, but if you're constantly seeking a different life to the one you have, you could lose that happiness.

Ultimately, it comes down to accepting that we can't have everything we would like in life (unfortunately) sometimes, so we should just focus on seeking happiness where we can, and changing what we can to achieve that happiness, rather than focusing on unrealistic goals.

loveisdivine

Thanks for the reply. You're right, I shouldn't dwell on it too much. I've been having a hard time at work lately which brought it to the forefront. If I could find a job which I actually have abit of interest in, then that would be great, I know it can be a rarity, but the kinda jobs I would like are few and far between.

I know I have to just suck it up and be grateful for what I do have. But I'm always gonna hope that change, on a grand scale, is possible. Vive la Révolution and all that!

username123

I totally agree with you loveisdivine.

I feel that we are all being conned into "working for the man" and that I slave away for 40+ hours a week at a job I dont like, and its a huge waste of time.

My own outlook changed after being made redundant from a job I was in for 14 years where we had a good team and I was in a senior position. It wasnt the "dream" but I liked it ok. Then I lost it and there was a huge emotional upheaval, I was really devastated. But, I stayed redundant for 2 years and it was the best 2 years I ever had!! I didnt have much money but all my time was my own, I really enjoyed my life, I swam, I ran, I went to the park almost daily and just hung out with nature, I listened to great podcasts, watched great movies, read great books, and studied. Just such a nice life.

Now im back working for the man and I can only do the above things in a limited capacity. Im tired all the time, I get no satisfaction from the job, I get annoyed each month when I look at my payslip and see how much is taken in tax, I physically wanted to vomit being forced to pay property tax, I just hate the corruption and vileness that is exposed almost daily in the higher echelons of government, justice system etc...

Now Im working towards just getting rid of the goddam mortgage so I can work less hours and just be happier. Its not all about making loads of money, its just about not struggling imo, but with the society we have created we force people to struggle to pay taxes and huge mortgages and interest rates trap people in debt for most of their lives etc...

Anyway, Im gonna read some Nietzsche and ponder it some more.

I wonder if the economic crash has contributed to how I feel, certainly companies in general seem to be taking the P out of their staff more often with longer hours, higher expectations, lower pay etc.... The work life balance is all wrong with a 40+ hour week.

Sorry for the long rant.

Potatoeman

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Try and enjoy life now. If you dont like work try and get a three day week where you dont spend more than half your week in work.

Do you garden? It would be pretty difficult to live off the land and pretty tough work. What would happen if you get ill? If you would be happy to live like this have a look at some remote places that would be cheap.

zoobizoo

Surely that's not unachievable.

Houses in the country are at the lowest prices they have been for years. Life is made simpler when you're not living in a city and if you can do without technology and the modern day appliances etc.

You sacrifice other things though such as a pension and travel.. but if that's what your priorities are then aim to achieve them.

I don't think that it's that difficult to do if that is what you want to do.

miamee

loveisdivine wrote: »

In my ideal world, my husband and I would live on a small piece of land. In ahouse we built ourselves using natural/sustainable resources. The majority of our food would come from our garden and anything esle we needed we could trade for. We would be in balance with environment around us.

There is nothing out of this world or unattainable here. If this is a shared dream that yourself and your husband have, what is to stop you saving towards living like this in 5 or 10 years time? No one is going to turn up at your door and say hey I have this great piece of land going free, do you want it? You need to work to make your dreams come true. In the meantime, could you put parts of the plan into action? An allotment or garden plot to grow your own veg, go to meet like-minded people, learn about ecologically-sound housing, etc.? You could be an expert by the time you actually get to do it for real

It is very easy to get sucked into the 'rat race'. I don;t know how people live from weekend to weekend doing nothing except work Monday-Friday. Most of my socialising and fun stuff happens during the week because I don't want to look back and realise that I have spent 5/7 of my life waiting...for Friday.

Best of luck OP, grab the bull by the horns and do even one thing that takes you a step closer to realising your dream

loveisdivine

Yes it would be nice to live in the country. But I'd still need to save thousands of euro for a deposit, then continue to work full time so I could pay the mortgage. Then pay god knows how many taxes on it. I can't imagine many people only work part time and can still afford to buy a house?

We rent currently and we can't afford for either of us to go part time. I'm always looking for cheaper rentals but theres nothing in this area.

I do realise there are small changes that I could make but my sadness is more about the grander scheme of things. Not just my own life but the world as a whole.

I get very sad when I see all the terrible things the human race has done to the planet and its other inhabitants, we've ruined it and covered it with concrete glass and metal. The general population don't seem too fussed about living in balance with nature, younger generations especially don't realise that we are connected to all of it and people don't respect nature anymore.

Edit - on a positive note, I have relly been getting into meditation which helps me feel more "at peace" with myself and my surroundings. We've also made a bit of a pact to try and be more creative as a means to express ourselves. So we're having a painting session on Friday

meeeeh

loveisdivine wrote: »

Yes it would be nice to live in the country. But I'd still need to save thousands of euro for a deposit, then continue to work full time so I could pay the mortgage. Then pay god knows how many taxes on it. I can't imagine many people only work part time and can still afford to buy a house?

We rent currently and we can't afford for either of us to go part time. I'm always looking for cheaper rentals but theres nothing in this area.

I do realise there are small changes that I could make but my sadness is more about the grander scheme of things. Not just my own life but the world as a whole.

I get very sad when I see all the terrible things the human race has done to the planet and its other inhabitants, we've ruined it and covered it with concrete glass and metal. The general population don't seem too fussed about living in balance with nature, younger generations especially don't realise that we are connected to all of it and people don't respect nature anymore.

The reason we don't live in harmony with nature anymore is because even more people would starve if we did. Earth is overpopulated and unless we find another similar planet or drastically reduce population that symbiotic freestyle that also means hunger when the weather is bad or because of some other reasons (and Irish know that very well), lack of medicine, shorter life span, higher mortality and so on.

I'm not saying life today is ideal but we can't and will not go back to the romantic old ways. There are too many of us and the reason we went intro direction we did is because we want to live. .

Chazz Michael Michaels

loveisdivine wrote: »

I've been feeling a little bit down/frustrated lately about certain things and I'm wondering if anyone else ever feels the same.

I don't like the structure of society at all. I think humans have created a complicated, hard and tiresome life for ourselves and I don't really see a way out of it. We spend the majority of our time working, a lot of us in jobs we have no real passion for.

Over the last few years my outlook on life has changed. I've realised that the only goal in life that actually matters is happiness. I am happy now, but I feel I could only achieve true fulfilment in a world entirely different to ours.

In my ideal world, my husband and I would live on a small piece of land. In ahouse we built ourselves using natural/sustainable resources. The majority of our food would come from our garden and anything esle we needed we could trade for. We would be in balance with environment around us. Unfortunately, to do that in this world I would need to win the lotto!
Now I know people will laugh when they read that, because people think I need a "reality check" and "thats now how the world works". But why can't the world work that way? No higher beings forced this style of living upon us, its something we have created. If some of us want to live differently, why can't we?

I'm just sad because humans are capable of great things, our advancements in technology are astounding, but I feel our own lives are very limited to what we can actually do.

There are communes out there that may accommodate your dream. Have a Google around.

tvc15

You have two major options for society, one is as simple as you have said you wanted, one is complex and frustrating like reality

If you want the simple agrarian/libertarian society you have to accept the following :

No modern medicine
Mass starvation due to over population
Mass starvation due to wet winters/cold summers
Constant threat of war/unrest
Arbitrary local justice systems
Arbitrary social systems for poor, elderly, disabled people

At this point in time there is the least hunger, least slavery, least war and least disease compared to any point in human history. Society has never been better in any measurable way but one thing it is not is simple!

loveisdivine

meeeeh wrote: »

The reason we don't live in harmony with nature anymore is because even more people would starve if we did. Earth is overpopulated and unless we find another similar planet or drastically reduce population that symbiotic freestyle that also means hunger when the weather is bad or because of some other reasons (and Irish know that very well), lack of medicine, shorter life span, higher mortality and so on.

I'm not saying life today is ideal but we can't and will not go back to the romantic old ways. There are too many of us and the reason we went intro direction we did is because we want to live. .

Oh I absolutely agree, it would be silly to go back to the days when food was scarce and disease was rife.

But, again in an "ideal world" surely with all the technology/science and great minds we have these days, we could find a middle ground.

R.D. aka MR.D

As another poster said, you could go live on a commune with like minded people. What's stopping you?

I'd also recommend doing some voluntary work in another country. You could find one that would take you and your husband for 2 years and you could be actively making the world a better place. The one's where you make a big time commitment are free and sometimes they will pay you a small living allowance.

dipdip

I went to see a career coach long ago to help give my career and life in general a bit of direction. I forget nearly everything he said, but one thing stuck. I was talking about something I wanted to achieve.

He asked:

Is it a goal, or a 'someday honey'?

I asked:

Huh?

And he said:

A goal is something you plan and work towards. A 'someday honey' is a vague notion that will never materialise. "Someday, honey, we'll have our own home" or "Someday, honey, I'll earn €80k a year" or "Someday, honey, we'll go see the Grand Canyon".

His point is clear. I went away and talked to my other half and by the end of the evening we had made plans to build just the kind of house you are describing. We drew up a ten year plan to make it happen. We still live in rented accommodation but we are on schedule for this goal to be realised.

• Decide what you want out of life.
• Make it a goal.
• Plan, prepare and work long-term to make it happen.

If you fail, at least you did your damndest to live according to your own values.

I would also encourage you to volunteer one night a week. Help to make your community a better place.

And if you can, get a bit of land from an allotment. I am on a waiting list to get a little plot that is just 7 metres by 7 metres. I plan to grow vegetables all year round so that by the time our new home is built (in 10 + years) we will have the skills to maximise our plot of land.

Potatoeman

Well genetic manipulation has enabled crops that produce a greater yield per sqr foot. Wheat has a far greater yield than a hundred years ago and this was from just cross breeding and seed selection.

Tiddlypeeps

I find it a bit strange that it gets you down that other people do not want the same lifestyle that you aspire too. The lifestyle you dream of is quite attainable, you'll have to work hard to get it but it can certainly be done. But it really shouldn't bother you that other people do not share this dream. The idea of having to go out and farm my food is terrifying to me. I like my job and my hobbies and not being able to do those because I need to grow my food for the year would make me very sad.

I like cities, I like the concrete, the glass and the metal. I enjoy visiting the countryside and I'm really glad it's there and I hope it never goes away, but I would not want to live there. If there was not countryside anymore and it was all cities and concrete jungles then I would see your point of view, but it is not. There are still plenty of places that are all nature and living in them is even much cheaper than living in a city.

Work towards the life you want and stop worrying yourself about how other people like to live.

loveisdivine

A commune could be a good idea. We have some rescue animals at the minute though so we would need to take them into consideration.

I have looked into allotments in the area, but not seriously enough I suppose. We have a large ish garden and already grow some smaller things like herbs and chillies and such. We make our own vegan milk/cheese/butter. We are gonna try planting some more substantial stuff this year though.

We also looked into the details of building our own home. I figured if we could save enough to buy a small piece of land, we would only need a small mortgage for the sort of home we want, but it was all so daunting. So many rules and regulations, fees etc. the thought of trying to organise it all and still be working full time was very off putting especially with websites and such saying its one of the most stressful things you can do. I think we need to have money under our belt though before we can take any further steps toward that option.

dipdip

loveisdivine wrote: »

I think we need to have money under our belt though before we can take any further steps toward that option.

But money under your belt would be a key part of the plan?

You are thinking negatively here. Decide to save X amount, however long it takes, and then take the next steps.

Spunge

username123 wrote: »

I totally agree with you loveisdivine.

I feel that we are all being conned into "working for the man" and that I slave away for 40+ hours a week at a job I dont like, and its a huge waste of time.

My own outlook changed after being made redundant from a job I was in for 14 years where we had a good team and I was in a senior position. It wasnt the "dream" but I liked it ok. Then I lost it and there was a huge emotional upheaval, I was really devastated. But, I stayed redundant for 2 years and it was the best 2 years I ever had!! I didnt have much money but all my time was my own, I really enjoyed my life, I swam, I ran, I went to the park almost daily and just hung out with nature, I listened to great podcasts, watched great movies, read great books, and studied. Just such a nice life.

Now im back working for the man and I can only do the above things in a limited capacity. Im tired all the time, I get no satisfaction from the job, I get annoyed each month when I look at my payslip and see how much is taken in tax, I physically wanted to vomit being forced to pay property tax, I just hate the corruption and vileness that is exposed almost daily in the higher echelons of government, justice system etc...

Now Im working towards just getting rid of the goddam mortgage so I can work less hours and just be happier. Its not all about making loads of money, its just about not struggling imo, but with the society we have created we force people to struggle to pay taxes and huge mortgages and interest rates trap people in debt for most of their lives etc...

Anyway, Im gonna read some Nietzsche and ponder it some more.

I wonder if the economic crash has contributed to how I feel, certainly companies in general seem to be taking the P out of their staff more often with longer hours, higher expectations, lower pay etc.... The work life balance is all wrong with a 40+ hour week.

Sorry for the long rant.

Im in this exact mindset too recently, after becoming obsessed with money, over-working, fretting about stupid things, arguing, realised its all meaningless. Was looking at going on a silent mediation retreat for a week or 2, dunno if im just having momentary insanity, we'll see how i feel in a week or 2. Gonna read some nietzsche too.

kjl

I always said if I became a billionaire I would buy and island and build a nice hotel on it and invite 100 of my closest friends to live there. Sadly I live in the real world so chances of that happening are minimal.

MayoSalmon

dipdip wrote: »

But money under your belt would be a key part of the plan?

You are thinking negatively here. Decide to save X amount, however long it takes, and then take the next steps.

This is exactly what I am in the process of doing.

Rat race of Dublin for another 2 years then I'm off to the West Coast to live the good life.

ongarboy

I think you can achieve what you want and be content. Anyone seeking constant happiness is delusional. Happiness is just a brief and intermittent euphoric state over and above how you generally feel as you go about your life and rightly so. It makes those moments of happiness something to be celebrated and truly appreciated because you know they don't last very long. It's not possible or feasible to be truly ecstatic happy all the time. I would think anyone who says they are would be confusing happiness with contentment. Even mega lottery winners stop walking on clouds and waking up with a smile every morning after a while.

OP - maybe it would be worthwhile not focusing on the bigger picture and just on your own life. You can't change the evils of this world but you can't let them dominate or frustrate you either or else you'll drive yourself demented. You just learn to cope and rationalise. If you are really unhappy in your job, try and change it. It sounds cliched but count your blessings too. You have a husband you want to spend your future with (presumably) - that's a wonderful thing in itself. How many posters visit this forum saying their singledom is the biggest source of their unhappiness. Assuming you're healthy, that is another blessing to be grateful for.

Yes, that may really be all there is but it is not the worst. This evening is crappy weather wise but I love when the hour goes forward and have an hour of brightness in April when I come home from work. Seeing the trees start to bud, daffodils appearing and the first smells of cut grass - they are all little things that give me a positive buzz. Others would say so what but you just have to find and celebrate those little things that give you temporary pleasures. It's all about perspective.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Adamantium

loveisdivine wrote: »

I get very sad when I see all the terrible things the human race has done to the planet and its other inhabitants, we've ruined it and covered it with concrete glass and metal. The general population don't seem too fussed about living in balance with nature, younger generations especially don't realise that we are connected to all of it and people don't respect nature anymore.

Humans have never respected nature, because in the beginning nature never respected us. We had to fight it. We never really lived in peace with nature. Nature ain't a peaceful place, at all; it's absolutely brutal and that's not something you'll hear the enviornmental movement espousing all that often. Nature was doing just fine, protecting itself long before we thought it was good to do so.


Young people have never respected their elders and nature, in Ancient Rome and Greece, teenagers: Things were always this way.

Plato:

"The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise. …

Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters."



I think the crusade is a little bit misplaced, improve your own life, but never attempt to fight human nature or change people's minds. You'd end up throwing your life away.

loveisdivine

Adamantium wrote: »

Humans have never respected nature, because in the beginning nature never respected us. We had to fight it. We never really lived in peace with nature. Nature ain't a peaceful place, at all; it's absolutely brutal and that's not something you'll hear the enviornmental movement espousing all that often. Nature was doing just fine, protecting itself long before we thought it was good to do so.
.

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. I'm well aware of the brutality of nature, its another reason I do respect nature because of its ability to be entirely ruthless when needed.There are still quite a few indigenous peoples out there that live entirely disconnected from the modern world and they do it succesfully. They live off nature, not taking too much, respecting the balance of the eco system around them.

I get what people are saying about stop worrying, just make your own life better and try not to worry about everything else. But its not easy to just stop worrying, or to stop being saddened by things. I realise that for the meantime, especially when it comes to my job and such, I have to make a plan for change and try not to dwell on it negatively. But unfortunately it doens't change my disillusion with the world at large. I also know that not everyone out there dreams of the peaceful utopia I do. I just have to live with that and do the best I can to create it for myself.

MayoSalmon

Adamantium wrote: »

Humans have never respected nature, because in the beginning nature never respected us. We had to fight it. We never really lived in peace with nature. Nature ain't a peaceful place, at all; it's absolutely brutal and that's not something you'll hear the enviornmental movement espousing all that often. Nature was doing just fine, protecting itself long before we thought it was good to do so.

I wouldn't really agree with this line of thought. Humans have respected nature, it just depends which humans your talking about.

Native Americans are a fantastic people!!! They truly respected nature and their land. Most native people are to be fair. Native Americans had extreme pride in one’s tribe, took immaculate care of their land and had the utmost respect for the land and nature. The respect they had for nature mean't they even worshipped it religiously. Todays concern about conservation and environmentalism are all inspired by views which are the hallmarks of Native American life.

Before white settlers invaded their continent Native American life was free of European influences, and Native Americans lived simply off the land.

It is these influences that we are all trapped in today. The influences of money, greed, power etc.

Its actually very sad when you take a second to think what has happened to these people and the values we have come to respect today.

Bricriu

It is possible to live where you want to and to live a life you want to, but you need a longterm plan and to save all the money you can manage.

I was born and brought up in Dublin, but always loved the Connemara Gaeltacht, where my parents are from. I realised about fifteen years ago that that was where I wanted to live. I never liked Dublin, I found it an ugly city visually, and I think cities generally are too crowded and noisy and are underpinned by consumerism.

I worked hard for 30 years and saved what I could without having an austere life; I retired early on a small pension, sold my house, and had savings, and moved to Connemara five years ago, eventually got Planning Perm. and built a Passive House (very cheap to heat and super-comfortable), and am now starting an organic vegetable garden.

Life here is very good. You can sail in summer-autumn if you want, go on nice walks, and there is a film club locally that shows the best of European cinema, although there is a strong sense of rural decline in the area. There is a regular Traditional session in the local pub.

I have no interest in Dublin, and the further I am from corrupt Government, elites, and the D4 Chattering Class, the more I like it.

So, start planning today and you can realise your dream.

Adamantium

MayoSalmon wrote: »

I wouldn't really agree with this line of thought. Humans have respected nature, it just depends which humans your talking about.

Native Americans are a fantastic people!!! They truly respected nature and their land. Most native people are to be fair. Native Americans had extreme pride in one’s tribe, took immaculate care of their land and had the utmost respect for the land and nature. The respect they had for nature mean't they even worshipped it religiously. Todays concern about conservation and environmentalism are all inspired by views which are the hallmarks of Native American life.

Before white settlers invaded their continent Native American life was free of European influences, and Native Americans lived simply off the land.

It is these influences that we are all trapped in today. The influences of money, greed, power etc.

Its actually very sad when you take a second to think what has happened to these people and the values we have come to respect today.

I agree, I do.

This book, shows how we've reached or overshoot our carrying capacity YEARS AGO. It may well be the most important book I ever read. It was wrote in 1982 and yet is never mentioned on best lists EVER.

http://www.amazon.com/Overshoot-Ecological-Basis-Revolutionary-Change/product-reviews/0252009886/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_2?ie=UTF8&pageNumber=2&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=byRankDescending

tvc15

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Native Americans are a fantastic people!!! They truly respected nature and their land. Most native people are to be fair. Native Americans had extreme pride in one’s tribe, took immaculate care of their land and had the utmost respect for the land and nature. The respect they had for nature mean't they even worshipped it religiously. Todays concern about conservation and environmentalism are all inspired by views which are the hallmarks of Native American life.

Before white settlers invaded their continent Native American life was free of European influences, and Native Americans lived simply off the land.

This is racist condescending bull, people are people no matter what, they will do what is best for them and saying that Native Americans were living in some utopia is fanciful at best. Do you think that if they had eventually made some of the discoverys made in the west like intensive farming and weapon technology that they would have remained at one with nature because that's how those natives like it?!?

People as a whole want technology including Native Americans and other 'natives' as you put it despite the downsides

MayoSalmon

tvc15 wrote: »

This is racist condescending bull, people are people no matter what, they will do what is best for them and saying that Native Americans were living in some utopia is fanciful at best. Do you think that if they had eventually made some of the discoverys made in the west like intensive farming and weapon technology that they would have remained at one with nature because that's how those natives like it?!?

People as a whole want technology including Native Americans and other 'natives' as you put it despite the downsides

How is anything I said racist??

I also never said it was a utopia, I was merely pointing to the fact they as a people were in harmony and respected nature.

"People as a whole want technology including Native Americans and other 'natives' as you put it despite the downsides"

What utter nonsense! Have you ever heard of the "Sami People"??
They are a native people and live close to the Artic.

Believe it or not they have no want for "technology" well at least the type of technology you speak of. I believe native Americans would of carried on similar to these people today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people

Potatoeman

I think people have a idealistic of a simple life. Living off the land would be very hard work and you would have very little support. Illness, injury, crop failure or weather changes would be catastrophic.

loveisdivine

Yes it would be hard work, but I would say it would be a more fulfilling work than sitting at a desk all day. I'm sure it would have its own ups and downs.

The Amish seem to do quite well with regards to growing a large amount of their own food and preserving plenty for harsher times.

Anyway this could easily stray off topic.

MayoSalmon

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think people have a idealistic of a simple life. Living off the land would be very hard work and you would have very little support. Illness, injury, crop failure or weather changes would be catastrophic.

Hydroponics/Aquaponics & greenhouse have all but eliminated this sort of thing.

meeeeh

Ok let's be real here. People who live in sustainable way in tune with the nature, of their own produce are also on top of the trocaire list for free goats and vaccination.

Yes simple life is more fulfilling for some (personally I would take sitting at the desk any time) but it would not work on the big scale. And before someone mentions Native Americans, some of them were also very fond of sacrificing people to make life better for themselves.

Potatoeman

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Hydroponics/Aquaponics & greenhouse have all but eliminated this sort of thing.

Kind of expensive though and you still have pests and disease.

username123

I think people are confusing the idealistic view of living off the land and being self sufficient in a bygone era with a more realistic view of actually living off the land in some sustainable sense in todays world, where there will always be the option of going to the supermarket if the garden crop fails.

I dont think anyone, OP included, would wish to return to uneducated and primitive times where the threat of injury, weather, disease or crop failure could mean yourself and your family were wiped out.

Certainly my own view on it is that I would simply rather not be in this constant rat race, up in the morning to rush hour traffic, at a desk all day doing boring things to make an old grey man richer. I would prefer a more peaceful and balanced existence where I didnt feel that I was being rode silly by an ever more greedy government expecting me to work longer hours for less pay with higher taxes and no let up from it in sight. It just seems so pointless.

MayoSalmon

Potatoeman wrote: »

Kind of expensive though and you still have pests and disease.

Absolutely not expensive once you WILLING to put in the effort. Also in a controlled environment pests and diseases can be easily controlled.
<Mod snip - no youtube>

MayoSalmon

meeeeh wrote: »

Ok let's be real here. People who live in sustainable way in tune with the nature, of their own produce are also on top of the trocaire list for free goats and vaccination.

Plenty of native people still living a self sufficient sustainable life in this world that are not African.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people

loveisdivine

username123 wrote: »

It just seems so pointless.

Exactly. Whats the point of it all? Its all entirely irrelevant. You've got millions of people across the world who are either in poverty or have little money, yet money is an entirely human created concept. Why can't someone who has no paper money go into a shop and say "I really need food and I'm also great a sewing, I'll make you some clothes in return for some food" Or something along those lines.

loveisdivine

meeeeh wrote: »

Ok let's be real here. People who live in sustainable way in tune with the nature, of their own produce are also on top of the trocaire list for free goats and vaccination.
.

But they are not really living in tune with nature are they? They are living on land which is by and large incompatible with large human populations.

If in the future we could slowly but greatly reduce our population size, there would be a better quality of life for all.

I do often feel like I'm fighting against the tide with some of my views, which is probably why I get sad. I'm not on a crusade to change everyones opinion/goals to match my own, I'm just sad that the vast majority don't really think about these things.

meeeeh

loveisdivine wrote: »

But they are not really living in tune with nature are they? They are living on land which is by and large incompatible with large human populations.

If in the future we could slowly but greatly reduce our population size, there would be a better quality of life for all.

I do often feel like I'm fighting against the tide with some of my views, which is probably why I get sad. I'm not on a crusade to change everyones opinion/goals to match my own, I'm just sad that the vast majority don't really think about these things.

I know of couple ways but none will put you on the of the Nobel peace prize list. You can also go for one child policy which would either heavily tax burden them when working or significantly lower the quality of living of pensioners and those on social welfare. As for offering sewing services, money makes possible for those without any relevant or needed skills in that moment to get things. Actually similar concept works in business sometimes but it is not a prefered option.

It's not that nobody is thinking about those issues it just might not be your way of thinking.

Potatoeman

loveisdivine wrote: »

Exactly. Whats the point of it all? Its all entirely irrelevant. You've got millions of people across the world who are either in poverty or have little money, yet money is an entirely human created concept. Why can't someone who has no paper money go into a shop and say "I really need food and I'm also great a sewing, I'll make you some clothes in return for some food" Or something along those lines.

If we all done that there would be no safety net for people that need help.

Jenneke87

Potatoeman wrote: »

If we all done that there would be no safety net for people that need help.

Actually this is something that's has been developing over the years, it's what known as Weconomy, kind of a local economy set up by struggling communities where people help each other out by trading thing, be it clothes, time, food, childminding,or other services offered. There are towns in America who have created there own currency so they are less dependent on the dollar and it's this kind of trading that allowes people with little money to get the things they need without paying for it.

limnam

loveisdivine wrote: »

Exactly. Whats the point of it all? Its all entirely irrelevant. You've got millions of people across the world who are either in poverty or have little money, yet money is an entirely human created concept. Why can't someone who has no paper money go into a shop and say "I really need food and I'm also great a sewing, I'll make you some clothes in return for some food" Or something along those lines.

Would it not make more sense to go and work in a job like sewing or start your own sewing business and then go to the shop to buy your food?

From your posts it sounds to me like you just don't want to take responsibility for how your life is and blame everyone and everything else for your unhappiness.

Why can't the world change and be more like how I want it to be.
It's a pretty mighty ask.

thegreatgonzo

Have you checked out the smallholding forum here? There is a thread about renting land I think

Taltos

Thread closed as this last page was pure discussion.

Thanks
Taltos