Female Staff must wear make up

Panzer7

Heard a story where the manager of a shoe shop told a female employee that she should wear make up when working. That would pi55 me off if I were a woman and told that, do you think the manager should have the right to insist female employees wear make up?

Jesus Wept

Only if they're ugly.

Rachiee

Ive heard of that in a few places. Its disgraceful

partyguinness

Personally no. He could have been a little bit more subtle about it and played the girls off each other i.e. hired good looking lady who is dolled up every day and soon the others would follow...;)

The owner of our local is quite blatant in hiring 17-18 year old good looking girls and the less attractive ones are put serving food/waiting tables...:eek:

Duggy747

I'd love it if my boss told me to come into work with make up on.

I'd paint a cat's face on mine. :pac:

Irish Halo

Duggy747 wrote: »

I'd love it if my boss told me to come into work with make up on.

I'd paint a cat's face on mine. :pac:

http://assets-s3.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/exclusive-book-excerpt-peter-criss-makeup-to-breakup-my-life-in-and-out-of-kiss-20121008/1000x306/20121005-makeup-to-breakup-peter-criss-306x-1349448665.jpg

Dravokivich

I remember when I used to work in Dunnes and they were going on about dress code and appearance policies. At the time they didn't mind if blokes got their ears pierced. As long as it was both of'em. :pac: Trolling feckers.

Blazer

I'm all for it especially after those bloody no makeup selfies around on facebook.
Really ruined my thoughts of certain people afterwards

Artful_Badger

Yeah my boss told me one time to wear a shirt and try look respectable. Who do these bastards think they are :mad:

Vel

Don't know if it's true but have heard that one of the major department stores even sets out the shade of lipstick that the floor girl's wear

SEPT 23 1989

Depends what the women are selling

stefan idiot jones

She would not get a start for Virgin Airlines.

They're all top notch totty and beautifully presented.

Artful_Badger

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Yeah my boss told me one time to wear a shirt and try look respectable. Who do these bastards think they are :mad:

You don't need makeup to look respectable though.

If your boss told you to paint your face 'tis a whole different thing altogether.

Artful_Badger

Candie wrote: »

You don't need makeup to look respectable though.

If your boss told you to paint your face 'tis a whole different thing altogether.

You dont need a shirt to look respectable either. Fact is your employer has a certain right to tell you how to look when your job involves being the public face of a business. Whether its a suit, shirt, uniform, no jewellery, or makeup its not out of order to request it from sales staff in the interest of the business.

Censorsh!t

If the women should have to wear makeup, so should the men! Imagine going into that shop.

Artful_Badger

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You dont need a shirt to look respectable either. Fact is your employer has a certain right to tell you how to look when your job involves being the public face of a business. Whether its a suit, shirt, uniform, no jewellery, or makeup its not out of order to request it from sales staff in the interest of the business.

It's an extra expectation above what is required of male employees, as both genders are required to dress appropriately for work. That makes it sexist, it's saying a womans appearance has extra significance above her male colleagues and that her looks are judged in a way that men escape.

It also puts added expense and time constraints on her daily life, for which presumably she gets no extra salary. Unless you're working in TV or modelling or some other industry that is very specifically dependent on appearance, it's unreasonable, intrusive, sexist, and unacceptably onerous.

Legs.Eleven

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Yeah my boss told me one time to wear a shirt and try look respectable. Who do these bastards think they are :mad:

It's hardly the same thing? They're basically saying cover up your natural, normal face with paint because you don't look smart or respectable without it. Think about it.

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You dont need a shirt to look respectable either. Fact is your employer has a certain right to tell you how to look when your job involves being the public face of a business. Whether its a suit, shirt, uniform, no jewellery, or makeup its not out of order to request it from sales staff in the interest of the business.

Being obliged to wear a shirt is not the same thing. Both men and women are required to dress smartly in the business environment but only women are required to hide their faces by some companies.

Artful_Badger

Candie wrote: »

It's an extra expectation above what is required of male employees, as both genders are required to dress appropriately for work. That makes it sexist, it's saying a womans appearance has extra significance above her male colleagues and that her looks are judged in a way that men escape.

It also puts added expense and time constraints on her daily life, for which presumably she gets no extra salary. Unless you're working in TV or modelling or some other industry that is very specifically dependent on appearance, it's unreasonable, intrusive, sexist, and unacceptably onerous.

All its saying is the business wants their employees to look as good as possible when dealing with customers. That's not unreasonable. If men or women don't want to work in a job that puts expectations on appearance then sales is not for them.

pawrick

Years ago in a part time job packing shelves in dunnes one of my mates was given a razor and told to shave his stubble or go home. In fairness he did look scruffy and was probably hung over.

Another job where a uniform was supplied for some staff there was a woman who insisted on wearing one which no longer fit her ( trousers not closing properly etc). Uniform was free. After lots of subtle hints and her trying to order the same size one again she was asked to go and have one fitted instead.

P_1

I suppose you could argue that policies forcing male staff to be clean shaven are equally sexist if you want to go down the whataboutary route.

Stupid policies in my eyes. A female worker wearing or not wearing makeup or a clean shaven or bearded male worker ain't really going to influence my purchasing decisions.

Artful_Badger

Artful_Badger wrote: »

All its saying is the business wants their employees to look as good as possible when dealing with customers. That's not unreasonable. If men or women don't want to work in a job that puts expectations on appearance then sales is not for them.

Fine, as long as the women are paid more so they can finance this extra requirement. And paid for the extra time they have to spend to apply it, and for the required professional care to keep it up, like manicures and leg waxing etc.

And if the men are required to be clean shaven, they should have the razors paid for.

Capt'n Midnight

Panzer7 wrote: »

Heard a story where the manager of a shoe shop told a female employee that she should wear make up when working. That would pi55 me off if I were a woman and told that, do you think the manager should have the right to insist female employees wear make up?

AFAIK they can insist on make up as part of company attire.

But then they also have to do two things

a - provide makeup or tell you how to claim for it on your taxes

b - insist that male members of staff wear makeup too , because otherwise that's sexual discrimination and you are in compo jackpot land \o/

Legs.Eleven

Artful_Badger wrote: »

All its saying is the business wants their employees to look as good as possible when dealing with customers. That's not unreasonable. If men or women don't want to work in a job that puts expectations on appearance then sales is not for them.

You mean as attractive as possible, not professional. Let's call a spade a spade here. It has fcuk all to do with looking professional and more to do with looking attractive. You'd be naive to think it's not (and I know you don't really). Why is this only required of women?

Zillah

I like to imagine that if I was working there, as a man, I would come in the next day wearing full make up. "I'm sorry I heard it was mandatory?"

Artful_Badger

Artful_Badger wrote: »

All its saying is the business wants their employees to look as good as possible when dealing with customers. That's not unreasonable.

I do not think anyone on the thread is saying it is unreasonable. I am with you that employees should be expected to adhere to regulations on minimum standards of appearance.

What people are trying to tell you _is_ unreasonable is something different. They are saying it is reasonable to expect a minimum standard of appearance but unreasonable to define those standards differently based on sex.

Legs.Eleven

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Why is this only required of women?

A womans worth.

After all the advances made in society over the last decades to make it more equitable, all the efforts made in law to level things out for both genders in the workplace, all the strides made by individual women in their various fields to be recognised for their ability, women are still judged on looks, age and willingness to smile in a way that men never have been.

To be fair though, we've never been judged on strength, earning ability or stoicism the way men are either.

Long way to go still for everyone.

SpaceTime

Sadly, the way things are headed women are being treated to more objectification and unfortunately, it's starting to apply to men too in a lot of areas.

I know a guy who was taken off 'front of house' duties because his hair was thinning!
He's now gone paranoid about his appearance and his hairline. Things like he's starting to wear hats a lot on nights out! Beanie hat in the pub ... Totally wrecked his self confidence.

bodice ripper

They told me this when I worked in Dunnes. I came in the next day full goth. That shut them the **** up.

SpaceTime

Can you bill them for your make up artist costs? Since they're requiring it as part of the uniform or would seem reasonable that they pick up the tab.

Lollipops23

In my old receptionist job myself and other other receptionists were asked to wear blazers, high heels and lipstick/gloss.

Thankfully I'd already found another job when this came in.

Lollipops23

Lollipops23 wrote: »

In my old receptionist job myself and other other receptionists were asked to wear blazers, high heels and lipstick/gloss.

Thankfully I'd already found another job when this came in.

There are actual health consequences to wearing high heels, so that's an absolutely outrageous request. :eek:

GenieOz

Where I work the female staff are told NOT to wear make up..weird.

Lollipops23

GenieOz wrote: »

Where I work the female staff are told NOT to wear make up..weird.

Either way I don't think it's right to make demands on your staff's appearance. Uniform etc is one thing, even "Unnatural" hair colourings/piercings.

Dixie Chick

I think there is good reason behind it. Front line retail is all about the experience and presentation. There are not many of us given a fantastic complexion and a bit of make up makes people look healthier and bit more groomed, its simple enough really. I think that people who give out about it probably didn't have time to get dolled up before they jumped on their high horse.

Penny Tration

Dixie Chick wrote: »

I think there is good reason behind it. Front line retail is all about the experience and presentation. There are not many of us given a fantastic complexion and a bit of make up makes people look healthier and bit more groomed, its simple enough really. I think that people who give out about it probably didn't have time to get dolled up before they jumped on their high horse.

Bollocks.

I'm expected to wear make up in work every day (front line sales and management), and I refuse to do it unless I feel like it. I have plenty of time in the mornings to do it, but I don't actually feel the need to dress up for work.

I go in to work clean, well dressed, with my hair neat and tidy. My boss has accepted that I will not wear make up unless I feel like it, and funnily enough, my sales have not been impacted. I'm a consistently high sales achiever.

I'm blessed with clear skin, but an allergic reaction has seen my face covered in hives and spots for the past two weeks.

My boss told me to put on make up to hide it. But guess what - make up can make acne, spots, dry skin and allergic reactions worse. Why the fcuk would I put chemicals on damaged skin?

If they want us to be tarted up, they can ask the same of male staff.

They tried this in my last job, too, telling me I was too pale without make up. They were also told where to go.

I wear make up a few times a week, when I choose to. If a boss thinks he/she can demand I paint my face, they can fire me when I refuse, and face me in court for gender discrimination.

SpaceTime

Candie wrote: »

There are actual health consequences to wearing high heels, so that's an absolutely outrageous request. :eek:

What if she fell over and injured herself... Just wondering would that leave the employer liable as she's no choice except to wear them.
If she'd worn high shoes of her own choice, that would be her own problem.

Just a query...

SpaceTime

green_screen wrote: »

Bollocks.

I'm expected to wear make up in work every day (front line sales and management), and I refuse to do it unless I feel like it. I have plenty of time in the mornings to do it, but I don't actually feel the need to dress up for work.

I go in to work clean, well dressed, with my hair neat and tidy. My boss has accepted that I will not wear make up unless I feel like it, and funnily enough, my sales have not been impacted. I'm a consistently high sales achiever.

I'm blessed with clear skin, but an allergic reaction has seen my face covered in hives and spots for the past two weeks.

My boss told me to put on make up to hide it. But guess what - make up can make acne, spots, dry skin and allergic reactions worse. Why the fcuk would I put chemicals on damaged skin?

If they want us to be tarted up, they can ask the same of male staff.

They tried this in my last job, too, telling me I was too pale without make up. They were also told where to go.

I wear make up a few times a week, when I choose to. If a boss thinks he/she can demand I paint my face, they can fire me when I refuse, and face me in court for gender discrimination.

Telling you that you're too pale could even be racism in some contexts.
I've had 'you pasty Irish ######' hurled at me as a term of abuse in England.

Legs.Eleven

Dixie Chick wrote: »

I think there is good reason behind it. Front line retail is all about the experience and presentation. There are not many of us given a fantastic complexion and a bit of make up makes people look healthier and bit more groomed, its simple enough really. I think that people who give out about it probably didn't have time to get dolled up before they jumped on their high horse.

They want women to look more attractive on reception (there's also a good reason women are put there in the first place). Men don't have the same pressure.

It should be the choice of the individual. I have good skin and would resent having to wear it. I don't look healthier with foundation on.

The quantity of make up some people wear only makes them look made up, not healthy at all. Hair hostesses spring to mind (who are required to cake it on for many airlines).

SpaceTime

It's a good thing I'm not a woman... I'd have to test a few legal theories on these make-up fascists

Legs.Eleven

The implication that women don't look passable/respectable/attractive/healthy/professional/whatever-the fcuk without make up on is really insulting and demeaning.


I really hate this policy :mad:

Penny Tration

SpaceTime wrote: »

Telling you that you're too pale could even be racism in some contexts.
I've had 'you pasty Irish ######' hurled at me as a term of abuse in England.

I was the only white woman in the job, and I pointed out potential racial motives for insisting that I was too pale. They pretty quickly shut up. Well, for a few weeks.

gramar

Panzer7 wrote: »

Heard a story where the manager of a shoe shop told a female employee that she should wear make up when working. That would pi55 me off if I were a woman and told that, do you think the manager should have the right to insist female employees wear make up?

Was his name Al Bundy?

Dixie Chick

But make up doesn't have to be plastered on at all, if your skin is good then only a bit of eye makeup and gloss would be enough. I wouldn't be happy if I was told to plaster make up on but its something I would understand in retail, clothes shops etc. Now I worked in centras and spars for years and never wore anything but then I wouldnt deem that as luxury sales then either.

SpaceTime

The things I'd find odd about it are :

1) Make-up is a cocktail of chemicals that someone may chose to apply to their skin. Some people don't necessarily want to do that and shouldn't be obliged to. Some people may have allergies to it, some people may have skin conditions that don't work well with it, others may just not like wearing it.

2) Commenting on someone's dress code is one thing, but commenting on their facial appearance and saying they look 'too pale' or 'washed out' because they've no make up on, is actually a personal insult. Commenting on someone as being an inappropriate skin colour is basically coming down to nearly racism. A lot of Irish people are extremely pale, that's just how we are.

Would you turn around and say : I'm sorry Mary, would you just get some colour changing contact lenses, those blue eyes are freaking out the customers??

Or, would you mind just wearing a hat, you've a bit of a huge head. It's distracting.

3) High heels are actually potentially dangerous. People trip, fall, may suffer back problems etc. There's nothing difficult to prove about that. It's one thing if a woman decides to wear them because she wants to wear them, however if you're an employer and you're compelling staff to wear unstable footwear.. does that not mean you're liable for any injuries? Just a thought.

If anything, employers should be asking staff NOT to wear high heels on health and safety grounds.

I've actually never understood that on airlines in particular. You'd think that cabin crew would need to be relatively practically dressed in the event of an emergency they're going to have to operate emergency slides and all sorts of things. Sensible footwear would seem to be a fairly good thing!

I'd just add one other thing:

High pointed heels destroy a lot of flooring and even cause huge amounts of damage to escalators because a large % of the woman's body weight is concentrated into a single sharp point. Even relatively hardy floor surfaces get absolutely wrecked.

RoboRat

In my last place I was always getting grief about shaving. I don't like shaving because I have very sensitive skin and I like to have stubble.

It wasn't scruffy stubble, it was trimmed and neat and I also has a little soulpatch. Every week I was brought to task about it and what really annoyed me was that I went for the interview with this look and it was never once mentioned to me until I was working there. What's worse was the MD has a moustache but that was OK.

vitani

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

The quantity of make up some people wear only makes them look made up, not healthy at all. Hair hostesses spring to mind (who are required to cake it on for many airlines).

A friend of a friend used to work as check-in staff for one airline. She was given regular 'make-up breaks' to make sure her make-up was immaculate.

I do tend to wear make-up every day, but I'd resent it being a mandatory policy.

P. Breathnach

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

The implication that women don't look passable/respectable/attractive/healthy/professional/whatever-the fcuk without make up on is really insulting and demeaning.

This man agrees with you.

I am more likely to take a poor view of excessive amounts of makeup or badly-applied makeup than of the absence of makeup.

In my opinion, the best makeup is not really noticeable.

[Don't get me started on fake tan!]

fleet_admiral

girl i know works in a major american label in town. the staff have to buy clothes that are on sale in the shop to wear in work. they dont get a discount and they must wear the clothes that are on sale at that time

Penny Tration

fleet_admiral wrote: »

girl i know works in a major american label in town. the staff have to buy clothes that are on sale in the shop to wear in work. they dont get a discount and they must wear the clothes that are on sale at that time

My sister worked in River Island several years back, same policy, plus all staff had to have full tan and make up, and styled hair. She quit after a month

SpaceTime

PS: I'm saying this as a man. I'm quite baffled by some of this stuff to be honest and I think a significant % of it comes from peer-pressure, fashion-industry/media expectations and social conformity.

I actually can be kinda put off by over-the-top make up and especially by that orange fake tan applied everywhere!

Probably the most attractive looking woman I've ever encountered was wearing flat shoes, old jeans, old random t-shirt covered in paint splashes, hair totally messed up and had no make up.

It's got very little to do with sexual attraction that's for sure. It's definitely more about social conformity.

czechlin

fleet_admiral wrote: »

girl i know works in a major american label in town. the staff have to buy clothes that are on sale in the shop to wear in work. they dont get a discount and they must wear the clothes that are on sale at that time

green_screen wrote: »

My sister worked in River Island several years back, same policy, plus all staff had to have full tan and make up, and styled hair. She quit after a month

Well that is just mental.