Afraid I won't get 250 points

Hollister11

Hi I'm afraid I won't get 250 points in my LC. I did awful in my mocks and I spend a lot of time studying

English 54% O
Maths. 38% O
Irish 29% O
Biology 34% H
Business 79%O
Geography 46% H
History 58% O

I got 125 points overall

Is it possible and if I just focused on papers would that be enough ?

Mr Pseudonym

Hollister11 wrote: »

Hi I'm afraid I won't get 250 points in my LC. I did awful in my mocks and I spend a lot of time studying

English 54% O
Maths. 38% O
Irish 29% O
Biology 34% H
Business 79%O
Geography 46% H
History 58% O

I got 125 points overall

Is it possible and if I just focused on papers would that be enough ?

Who the hell let you do five Ordinary subjects?

Your Geog grade will improve somewhat because of the field study. An extra six percent in Biology would have bumped your points total by 45. A C in Geog and a high-D in Bio should be more than achievable. I don't know how easy it is to do well on Ord papers (I would have thought pretty easy to get at least a C), but you clearly need to improve your grade in those. I would focus on only two of Maths, Irish, and English (assuming you don't need any of them for college entry). Seeing as you're getting a B2 in Ord Business, could you not get a D1 or higher on the Higher paper?

If you can motivate yourself to work, and do so productively, nine weeks is definitely sufficient time. Purely past papers in conjunction with marking schemes would work for Bio, Maths, and Business, but not the others. Can you ask your teachers what areas you could concentrate on? Don't become demoralised by thinking you need to know everything - you can get a C while not knowing an awful lot!

rainbowtrout

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Who the hell let you do five Ordinary subjects?

Your Geog grade will improve somewhat because of the field study. An extra six percent in Biology would have bumped your points total by 45. A C in Geog and a high-D in Bio should be more than achievable. I don't know how easy it is to do well on Ord papers (I would have thought pretty easy to get at least a C), but you clearly need to improve your grade in those. I would focus on only two of Maths, Irish, and English (assuming you don't need any of them for college entry). Seeing as you're getting a B2 in Ord Business, could you not get a D1 or higher on the Higher paper?

If you can motivate yourself to work, and do so productively, nine weeks is definitely sufficient time. Purely past papers in conjunction with marking schemes would work for Bio, Maths, and Business, but not the others. Can you ask your teachers what areas you could concentrate on? Don't become demoralised by thinking you need to know everything - you can get a C while not knowing an awful lot!

Maybe the OP is not able for higher level. That's why ordinary level exists.

OP, do you think you are able to get higher grades in these subjects or are you having difficulties. It is important that you pass your maths. While there are courses that don't require it, the majority still do. Passing your biology will bring your points up a lot.

Practising exam papers will certainly help, but you really need to get going as and from tomorrow. Plan to focus on one or two topics per night, work with marking schemes free on examinations.ie to see what is needed in different questions. See which questions repeat over and over again. Focus on these topics to maximise chances of success.

Mr Pseudonym

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Maybe the OP is not able for higher level. That's why ordinary level exists.

Thank you for clarifying that. "Not able for Higher Level" sounds awfully patronising to me.

spurious

Many LC students do all OL subjects. Doing just two HL is certainly not unusual.

Some students are not able for HL. This can be because of a number of factors.

Boards fora do not represent the full spectrum of ability levels.

rainbowtrout

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Thank you for clarifying that. "Not able for Higher Level" sounds awfully patronising to me.

No, it isn't. I've taught plenty of students over the years and plenty of them are simply not capable of comprehending and learning the material required on some of the higher level courses. Some are not capable of this at ordinary level sometimes. Foundation level courses exist in Irish and Maths. If everyone was able for higher level in all of their subjects or the majority of them, then we would be teaching at university level as higher level would be the basic standard. This is not the case.

Mr Pseudonym

spurious wrote: »

Many LC students do all OL subjects. Doing just two HL is certainly not unusual.

Some students are not able for HL. This can be because of a number of factors.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No, it isn't. I've taught plenty of students over the years and plenty of them are simply not capable of comprehending and learning the material required on some of the higher level courses. Some are not capable of this at ordinary level sometimes. Foundation level courses exist in Irish and Maths.

I don't want to involve myself in a discussion about the suitability of different students for different levels. Taking all Ordinary subjects would have been incredibly unusual in my school. Geography, Business, Biology, as well as some of the practical subjects, are sufficiently unspecialised as to allow all but the very least academic students to obtain a pass at Higher level.

If everyone was able for higher level in all of their subjects or the majority of them, then we would be teaching at university level as higher level would be the basic standard. This is not the case.

Needless to say, this is wrong. The standard of Higher Level is not dictated by that of Ordinary.

rainbowtrout

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

I don't want to involve myself in a discussion about the suitability of different students for different levels. Taking all Ordinary subjects would have been incredibly unusual in my school. Geography, Business, Biology, as well as some of the practical subjects, are sufficiently unspecialised as to allow all but the very least academic students to obtain a pass at Higher level.

Needless to say, this is wrong. The standard of Higher Level is not dictated by that of Ordinary.

You really have no idea what you are talking about and have quite a narrow view of academic ability. While taking all ordinary level subjects might have been unusual in your school, taking more than 2 higher level subjects is very unusual in other schools. I have taught in a school where out of every 30 students only 1 goes to university and maybe 3 to an IT. There are other schools like that.

It's an insult to the subjects, their teachers and the students taking the subjects to suggest that the ones you have listed along with the practical subjects are unspecialised enough that pretty much everyone should be able to for higher level. They just aren't.

Look at the statistics on examinations.ie for the subjects you named. One quarter of all students taking geography and biology last year (and in previous years) sat the exam at ordinary level. That's not just s small minority. They are fairly representative subjects too given that they are some of the most popular subjects aside from Irish, English and Maths. One third of Business students sat the exam at ordinary level last year. Similar for Construction, Engineering and DCG. Again one quarter - one third take the subject at ordinary level, subjects I assume you are referring to when you say practical subjects and claim to be sufficiently unspecialised. Given that practical examiantions and project work make up 50% of the mark in Construction, it can't be that easy if 25% of students are opting for it at ordinary level and they have probably been doing the subject since first year.

the_syco

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Taking all Ordinary subjects would have been incredibly unusual in my school.

Public or private school?

=-=

OP, do foundation for Irish. I think it's only really useful for the Civil Service, as other than that, I can't see you using it. Don't do Foundation maths if you can help it, as a pass in Ordinary a requirement in most PLC/college courses, etc.

As for Biology; a pass in Ordinary gets you more points than a fail in Honours. Not sure about Geography, but if you think you can do it in honours, go for it.

Mr Pseudonym

the_syco wrote: »

OP, do foundation for Irish. I think it's only really useful for the Civil Service.

Irish no longer required.

rainbowtrout

the_syco wrote: »

Public or private school?

=-=

OP, do foundation for Irish. I think it's only really useful for the Civil Service, as other than that, I can't see you using it. Don't do Foundation maths if you can help it, as a pass in Ordinary a requirement in most PLC/college courses, etc.

As for Biology; a pass in Ordinary gets you more points than a fail in Honours. Not sure about Geography, but if you think you can do it in honours, go for it.

Mr Pseudonym is studying Economics in TCD and got an A1 in Applied Maths in the Leaving Cert and presumably got 500+ points in the Leaving Cert too based on TCD points, so perhaps is not in the best position to understand how some students genuinely find academic life incredibly difficult and in many cases higher level is simply not an option. I wonder what he would have made of one of my leaving cert ag science students last week who looked at me in blind panic and fear when I asked them to convert 19/100 into a percentage for a result in an experiment. They would rather have gouged their eyes out with a rusty spoon such is their difficulty with maths.

tazzzZ

OP your mocks are always going to be a bit harder than the actual exam. admittedly you havent done great by any means but i would look at what you want to do when you leave and focus on subjects that apply to that course. at all costs do not fail maths or english as it leaves you little to no option other than repeating your leaving. i suggest getting grinds to help you.

and with a 79% in ordinary business maybe you should speak to your teacher about moving up to the HL class. hopeful they should at least be honest with you about weather your capable of it or not.

i was always reasonably good at maths and one suggestion i would give you is to learn the process of doing each question as you can get the majority of your marks from showing your work without actually getting the right answer. i gave maths grinds to pass students while a student myself and managed to help someone to an A2 in ordinary when she had failed it the first time around. and most of that was down to her not showing her work.

PLL

Yes, just study like hell. You'll be miserable for the next 2 months but it will be worth it. It's 2 months of your life and trust me it will make things easier in the long run. I'm speaking from experience.

Mr Pseudonym

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You really have no idea what you are talking about and have quite a narrow view of academic ability. While taking all ordinary level subjects might have been unusual in your school, taking more than 2 higher level subjects is very unusual in other schools. I have taught in a school where out of every 30 students only 1 goes to university and maybe 3 to an IT. There are other schools like that.

It's an insult to the subjects, their teachers and the students taking the subjects to suggest that the ones you have listed along with the practical subjects are unspecialised enough that pretty much everyone should be able to for higher level. They just aren't.

Look at the statistics on examinations.ie for the subjects you named. One quarter of all students taking geography and biology last year (and in previous years) sat the exam at ordinary level. That's not just s small minority. They are fairly representative subjects too given that they are some of the most popular subjects aside from Irish, English and Maths. One third of Business students sat the exam at ordinary level last year. Similar for Construction, Engineering and DCG. Again one quarter - one third take the subject at ordinary level, subjects I assume you are referring to when you say practical subjects and claim to be sufficiently unspecialised. Given that practical examiantions and project work make up 50% of the mark in Construction, it can't be that easy if 25% of students are opting for it at ordinary level and they have probably been doing the subject since first year.

I'm uncomfortable with the level of acrimony. I can understand, if some of the advice I gave the OP was contentious, that others may feel it necessary to forcefully disagree. But, a composed argument should have been enough to object to what was an inconsequential comment of mine. The ad hominem attack on my argument by rainbowtrout was bad form.

I may have a narrow view of ability (though I don't think I do!). But, I don't know how I could be accused of having a narrow view of academic ability.

I don't think I was insulting anyone or anything: by mentioning those subjects, I was not implying that high grades in each are easy or easier to attain - merely that most would find a Higher Pass in them more manageable than in other subjects (that is supported by the level of their uptakes).

However, I will recognise that I was likely wrong in saying that "all but the very least-academic students (ought to be able to) obtain a pass at Higher level" in specified subjects that I deemed "sufficiently unspecialised". My point was that almost everyone has the innate ability to achieve such. But, I see now that that position was not relevant in this situation, where we are considering whether one, who is approaching the end of their schooling, is capable of doing so. And, as seems to be the case, many are not.

Btw, to clarify any potential misconceptions: I replied to this thread because I felt sorry for the OP, and thought my response may provide useful or comforting advice; I did not do so to condescendingly set forth my opinions.

eoins23456

Hollister11 wrote: »

Hi I'm afraid I won't get 250 points in my LC. I did awful in my mocks and I spend a lot of time studying

English 54% O
Maths. 38% O
Irish 29% O
Biology 34% H
Business 79%O
Geography 46% H
History 58% O

I got 125 points overall

Is it possible and if I just focused on papers would that be enough ?

Go over a topic , make notes on that topic and then learn those notes. Attempt exam questions on the topic and then correct informations gaps with markings schemes and going over the topic again .repeat for each subject

Hollister11

OP here.
Thanks for your replies.
I do so much study and it doesn't pay off. Sometimes I feel like dropping out.

moc moc a moc

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Thank you for clarifying that. "Not able for Higher Level" sounds awfully patronising to me.

Jaysus, has the 'political correctness' problem gotten so bad that we need to tiptoe around when talking about Leaving Cert levels now?

Not everyone is capable of doing well in the exams at Higher Level. That's why it's called Higher Level.

spurious

I've noticed in recent years a drift towards an attitude of 'if you really want something you can make it happen' and 'if you work hard enough for something you will get it'.
Unfortunately, neither are true.

partyguinness

OP...

I think you need to plan the remaining time very carefully between now and the exams. A detailed schedule/timetable is needed and, as mentioned early, focus on answering past papers. Don't start anything new.

I am sure you can pick up marks by improving your ability to structure your answers in the most efficient manner.

You seriously need to sit down with a teacher at your school asap and ask for a detailed study plan and stick to it.

Mr Pseudonym

spurious wrote: »

I've noticed in recent years a drift towards an attitude of 'if you really want something you can make it happen' and 'if you work hard enough for something you will get it'.
Unfortunately, neither are true.

"Neither is true." And, clearly, the second can be true if that "something" isn't excessively difficult to achieve! IMO, a pass at a Higher LC subject (well, most) falls into that category.

coffee_cake

Hollister11 wrote: »

OP here.
Thanks for your replies.
I do so much study and it doesn't pay off. Sometimes I feel like dropping out.

Hi OP
there are different ways to study so perhaps it might be a question of changing your approach. Sometimes if you understand the material you are better off writing a summary of what you have just covered, in your own words, rather than trying to learn it by brute force. Pretend someone is asking you "what are you reading about" and how would you explain it to them?
If there are things you need to memorise, you could make up acronyms or rhymes.

Ask a teacher or other friends in your class how they do it. If there are maths questions you don't understand, ask for help.

partyguinness

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

"Neither is true." And, clearly, the second can be true if that "something" isn't excessively difficult to achieve! IMO, a pass at a Higher LC subject (well, most) falls into that category.

Without exaggeration, the OP is posting here in the middle of a very delicate and critical stage in her/his life to date and clearly in need of some rational sound advice from 'adults' and all some posters can do is engage in a petty immature game of one man upship...it's absolutely pathetic..:rolleyes:

burtslimpslon

Hi, i would advise doing higher business as your result is quite good

spurious

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

"Neither is true." And, clearly, the second can be true if that "something" isn't excessively difficult to achieve! IMO, a pass at a Higher LC subject (well, most) falls into that category.

Neither is true. You're right of course - the retirement has melted my brain.:o

For people who are literate and confident in their own ability, I would agree a pass in HL is not impossible, but that is not everyone.

Hollister11 - it sounds very much like the way you are studying does not suit your learning style. Can you remember other things from other areas of your life? Fixtures and scores in matches, lyrics to songs?

If you can, then there is nothing wrong with your memory - you need to find a way to get the exam information into your long-term memory. This could be through reading facts, re-writing notes, making mind maps, recording yourself reading out summaries, doing visualisations - there are many different methods. You need to find the one suits you.

Mr Pseudonym

partyguinness wrote: »

Without exaggeration, the OP is posting here in the middle of a very delicate and critical stage in her/his life to date and clearly in need of some rational sound advice from 'adults' and all some posters can do is engage in a petty immature game of one man upship...it's absolutely pathetic..:rolleyes:

May I suggest that you read the ongoing interchange on this thread. The post to which you replied was a continuation of that. I was the first person to offer advice to the OP (though some would question its soundness).

partyguinness

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

May I suggest that you read the ongoing interchange on this thread. The post to which you replied was a continuation of that. I was the first person to offer advice to the OP (though some would question its soundness).

My post was a result of reading the ongoing interchange. Thanks for the suggestion though. Worryingly some of the posters appear to be teachers or former teachers.

spurious

partyguinness wrote: »

My post was a result of reading the ongoing interchange. Thanks for the suggestion though. Worryingly some of the posters appear to be teachers or former teachers.

Not sure why it would be worrying. It's not like any of the teachers posting hide the fact that they were/are teachers.
Many of the SEC/examination administration-related queries here would not be able to be answered by current LC students.

partyguinness

Hollister11 wrote: »

OP here.
Thanks for your replies.
I do so much study and it doesn't pay off. Sometimes I feel like dropping out.

At this stage you need to focus. No doubt you put in the hours but clearly what you are doing is not working. Sitting in your room for 12 hours a day is no good unless it is working.

At this stage you need a focused and direct approach. Intensive if you like and you need to sit down with someone who can help you find what works for you ASAP.

While everyone has their own individual needs, can I suggest writing might work? Staring at a book and just reading is limited. Start writing, writing writing and more writing. Summarise chapters, write out notes, write out the formulas and try to write them out again without looking

If you are struggling to concentrate by just reading or tired, it helps to start writing until your mind is focused again. Afterall, the LC rewards regurgitation.

Perhaps some of the retired teachers on here could volunteer some sound advice outside this forum?

TBH OP, I would gladly help you by sitting down with you and devise with some techniques and timetables but I dont live in Ireland any more.

partyguinness

spurious wrote: »

Not sure why it would be worrying. It's not like any of the teachers posting hide the fact that they were/are teachers.
Many of the SEC/examination administration-related queries here would not be able to be answered by current LC students.

What I find worrying is that the petty and immature one man upship posts I was alluding to arecoming from teachers who I would have hoped knew better.

derek214

Hi OP,

In the majority of cases the Mocks are not a true representation of how you will score in the LC. In most cases you have not covered all the course work nor have you been 100% prepared for the exam. In my view the mocks are there to A. Yes get you studying but B. Get you used to the exam format and have you focus your study to the question format etc.

This is my own personal experience, which of course will be different for everyone but if it makes you feel any better OP I scored just 15 points in my mocks (passing one Ordinary subject) and got 295 in the LC. I was always the guy doing the bare minimum in school because I hated it - the one with the "could do better" report card
That said once you, like I did, find something you like (and this is most important) you will excel in it!!

Also bare in mind that while the LC is important, and will get you into that course that you want "the easier way" - there are always other routes to the course/job that you want! Again coming from the guy that took the long route to my career with with multiple courses and a degree at night!

Best of luck with it anyway!

randylonghorn

Folks, there is an ongoing argument in this thread which is in no way helpful to the OP.

It ends here. By all means feel free to start another thread specifically about the issues raised: no-one is silencing you.

But not in this thread.

Specific, helpful advice for the OP only, please


Hollister, as Derek has pointed out, many people who consistently work hard between mocks and the actual LC improve significantly.

The advice about looking at other / better ways to study; asking for help around this from teachers and others; focusing on past papers; etc. ... all good.

What do you want to do after LC? Are high points essential? If the most direct route to what you want does require high points, are there any other less direct routes? ... e.g. through a PLC, or starting with a Level 7 course which will allow you to transfer later?

We have become obsessed with "points" in this country and the Points Race to the extent that it is adversely affecting the self-efficacy and, in extreme cases, even the mental health of some of our young people. This is wrong.

Don't get me wrong, hollister ... I would encourage you to work hard and to improve your LC results as much as you can ... but always be aware in the back of your mind (as Derek again has pointed out) that there are almost always other routes / other ways to get to your long-term goal. Doing less well in the LC than you might like is disappointing; it is NOT the end of the world as you know it!