which dog to buy

rugermk3

hi all looking to buy a dog soon have three breeds in mind, lab, springer, or german pointer but Im really spilt between witch to go for , I need a good all rounder , I hunt all types of game and will be starting at the stalking next season , id be interest to hear peoples thoughts on witch they think I should go for, , I had a pointer as a young lad , he came ready trained as a gun dog, but I never hunted him because I was just a kid, I can remember he was a really smart but cant remember if he liked water or not, and ill need a good water dog for the ducks , any info would be great heads wrecked lol all three breeds are cracking ,

allan450

whats the ground like you hunt on is it open,heavy cover,or bog.these all come into consideration.where i am its a mix of land types so i have gsps and cockers{dont forget the cockers ha ha].germans are so good in water as out.so if you like the duck hunting your good up to the point of the really cold weather.its not fair putting them in when its very cold.they will go in though.german top dog for pheasnts and snipe but lack for the real heavy cover.springer/cocker great in cover and hard bet on the woodcock also as good in water.labs cant really comment but if your a duck hunter thats what to go for hardy in all weather and very strong in water swimming against tide if you shoot foreshore ect ect.why dont you buy both ha ha.:)

TriggerPL

Lab! I've hunted everything there is to offer with my lab and tracked 2 deer with her last year too . I've a springer too well able for the job but hard get a gud one and very energetic all the time

Traumadoc

Lab, will track deer, swim to retrieve ducks, and hunt cover.

rugermk3

cheers guys thanks for the advice, think at the min im leaning towards a pointer , if not a pointer a lab ,

sheebadog

Get a well bred English Setter and you won't go too far wrong.
Look for a dog called Heegards Kody in the pedigree. Throwing good stuff.

Longranger

A buddy of mine had a vizla for years. Great dog and worked just as well in the water as on the hill, but I believe they ain't cheap.

snipe49

rugermk3 wrote: »

hi all looking to buy a dog soon have three breeds in mind, lab, springer, or german pointer but Im really spilt between witch to go for , I need a good all rounder , I hunt all types of game and will be starting at the stalking next season , id be interest to hear peoples thoughts on witch they think I should go for, , I had a pointer as a young lad , he came ready trained as a gun dog, but I never hunted him because I was just a kid, I can remember he was a really smart but cant remember if he liked water or not, and ill need a good water dog for the ducks , any info would be great heads wrecked lol all three breeds are cracking ,

What u must bare in mind is not all german pointers are fond of water so make sure if your getting a pup both parent retrive from water. Maybe get a poiner and a springer. They would be company for each other. I dont think its fair to keep one dog on it own. Just my taughts.

allan450

i wouldnt keep one dog on their own either i dont think its right.if i was you id get a pointer and springer and you would have all aspects of shooting covered.if you are ever down this end of the country pm me and il show you germans and cockers working if you want its a hard call to make.

vincentf

Doesnt matter to some extent what breed. The strain or bloodline has to be right. It must come from proven dogs that have massive drive to hunt anything you train it to hunt.you also know these dogs dont make good pets and need housing that locks them up. My bitch will go over walls 6ft plus.
Be prepared to spend alot if needed. I was in the same boat. I waited and got sorted with gwp. Shes outa german deutsch drahthaars.imports.tested dogs. If they fail.they dont breed with papers etc.
Ive been out with lads who have springers and shes going through hard heavy cover that the springer lads are trying to train their dogs to hit. Shes tracks deer and all feather n fowl.
I wouldnt touch another breed or other gwp bloodlines to be honest.
Do your home work.

rugermk3

snipe49 wrote: »

What u must bare in mind is not all german pointers are fond of water so make sure if your getting a pup both parent retrive from water. Maybe get a poiner and a springer. They would be company for each other. I dont think its fair to keep one dog on it own. Just my taughts.

I had a pointer years ago as a kid , and as far as I can remember he wasn't mad on water, I can only get one dog because I have a terrier that's 18 and a husky , the terrier hasn't much time left sadly he`s been a smashing dog , so the new dog will replace him , could always shoot the husky < that's a joke > he is useless lol but a good pet he`s the wife`s dog. and she wont let me get two dogs I'd have to move in with them if I did,

garyc007

if your looking for an all rounder i wouldnt go with the pointer,it can be pot luck with them where as with a springer or lab you can be sure if you put the time in you will have a good all round dog.i lean towards the springer but have a lab springer x that i enjoy the best of both breeds with (on good days )

interize

Had the same problem myself a few years ago, didn't know what breed to get so i went for the best all rounder, a good springer spaniel, just get a good dog and train it well and you wont be sorry you got one.

TriggerPL

Haha that's the hard part a good spaniel
dog !!

rugermk3

sheebadog wrote: »

Get a well bred English Setter and you won't go too far wrong.
Look for a dog called Heegards Kody in the pedigree. Throwing good stuff.

I had forgot all about the English setter , I have an uncle that has two English setters and ive been out with them a few times , and there two good dogs got to be said , ok one of them **** off one day and didn't come back , the uncle got him back a week later in a different county haha other than that slip up they were great, jayus this is getting harder to make up my mind lol

blackpearl

red setters I would not pass them use them for all round shooting retrieving land and water, cover and I am talking about heavy cover shooting ducks on shore and lakes, pheasant ,woodcock,snipe and grouse they will not bother with rabbits that is the only thing I will falt them with but rabbits are very scarce in my part of the country so it does not matter to me.

snipe49

blackpearl wrote: »

red setters I would not pass them use them for all round shooting retrieving land and water, cover and I am talking about heavy cover shooting ducks on shore and lakes, pheasant ,woodcock,snipe and grouse they will not bother with rabbits that is the only thing I will falt them with but rabbits are very scarce in my part of the country so it does not matter to me.

Yes the Red setter is wort thinking about.But finding one that works and is red' not red with a white chest is very had.

sheebadog

snipe49 wrote: »

Yes the Red setter is wort thinking about.But finding one that works and is red' not red with a white chest is very had.

What do you mean " red with a white chest" ?

irish setter

snipe49 wrote: »

Yes the Red setter is wort thinking about.But finding one that works and is red' not red with a white chest is very had.

Not at all hard to find. but nothing wrong with a white chest either. That's like saying a solid coloured pointer is ok but not a part coloured

snipe49

irish setter wrote: »

Not at all hard to find. but nothing wrong with a white chest either. That's like saying a solid coloured pointer is ok but not a part coloured

A Irish red setter should only be red.If it was ment to have white then it would be call red and white And we allready have that dog. What u say about the pointer does'nt stand up. They are not call brown pointers they are call englist german and so on. If a litter of setter pup's come up for sale the all red's ones will be always sold first. As long as people accept white on RED setter then this lovely breed will be lost.You'll never see the bus eireann dog with a white chest.

sheebadog

snipe49 wrote: »

A Irish red setter should only be red.If it was ment to have white then it would be call red and white And we allready have that dog. What u say about the pointer does'nt stand up. They are not call brown pointers they are call englist german and so on. If a litter of setter pup's come up for sale the all red's ones will be always sold first. As long as people accept white on RED setter then this lovely breed will be lost.You'll never see the bus eireann dog with a white chest.

Bullshyte. Read up on the breed standard of the reds and educate yourself. Fact is, reds started out as red and white and "fashion" made them self coloured. I know of many reds that are outstanding dogs and have a lot of white markings on them.
It has been known that a litter of purebred red setters often have a red and white in them.

allan450

that is correct they where original red and white.it was for shows the full red dogs where bred.

snipe49

sheebadog wrote: »

Bullshyte. Read up on the breed standard of the reds and educate yourself. Fact is, reds started out as red and white and "fashion" made them self coloured. I know of many reds that are outstanding dogs and have a lot of white markings on them.
It has been known that a litter of purebred red setters often have a red and white in them.

Don't mind what they starter of as. All i know given the choice most peope would go for a full red.Most dog breeds have been improved no. but there going back words with the red setter. U must have a litter for sale with white on.:D

sheebadog

snipe49 wrote: »

Don't mind what they starter of as. All i know given the choice most peope would go for a full red.Most dog breeds have been improved no. but there going back words with the red setter. U must have a litter for sale with white on.:D

Disagree. Reds are the best that they have been for years - fact.
Btw I've never bred red setters.
Anybody that can say that a red dog is no good because it has some white on is a misinformed ............!

allan450

The color in any dog breed has no bearing on working ability.

snipe49

sheebadog wrote: »

Disagree. Reds are the best that they have been for years - fact.
Btw I've never bred red setters.
Anybody that can say that a red dog is no good because it has some white on is a misinformed ............!

I never said they were less of a working dog. just that in MY OPINION yhey just dont look right. An example of this is i had two setter bitches for sale both the same age both of simular working abbility. only differance was one was all dark red. And the other was white and red.I could have sold the all red bitch 10 times. And now one wanter the white and red bitch.Ended up giving her to a good home. I rest my case.:D

sheebadog

snipe49 wrote: »

I never said they were less of a working dog. just that in MY OPINION yhey just dont look right. An example of this is i had two setter bitches for sale both the same age both of simular working abbility. only differance was one was all dark red. And the other was white and red.I could have sold the all red bitch 10 times. And now one wanter the white and red bitch.Ended up giving her to a good home. I rest my case.:D

Weak argument. You'd be better off discussing fashion on another thread.

Anyone that colour influences buying a working dog haven't a clue.
In fact I've noticed that the reds that are more "yellow" than a deep mahogany red make the best workers - it goes back to Jack Nash's breeding. But that's another story.

snipe49

sheebadog wrote: »

Weak argument. You'd be better off discussing fashion on another thread.

Anyone that colour influences buying a working dog haven't a clue.
In fact I've noticed that the reds that are more "yellow" than a deep mahogany red make the best workers - it goes back to Jack Nash's breeding. But that's another story.

I've been shoot for 35 years .And had red setters when i started.I do like a good looking dog and red and white just doesent do it for me. And i would say a lot more.I'm going out at the weekend what would u recomend black tie or gray.

sheebadog

snipe49 wrote: »

I've been shoot for 35 years .And had red setters when i started.I do like a good looking dog and red and white just doesent do it for me. And i would say a lot more.I'm going out at the weekend what would u recomend black tie or gray.

Length of rope!!:)

irish setter

A lot of things being said I don't really understand. First there is the Irish setter. Colour red. Also can have traces of white on chest head or feet.
Then you have the Irish red and white setter. Colour white with solid patches of red.
These are two different breeds that is generally thought to have a common ancestry. But they are two different breeds so most arguments here are mute.
Which breed is better is a different argument

sonofthegun

sheebadog wrote: »

Weak argument. You'd be better off discussing fashion on another thread.

Anyone that colour influences buying a working dog haven't a clue.
In fact I've noticed that the reds that are more "yellow" than a deep mahogany red make the best workers - it goes back to Jack Nash's breeding. But that's another story.

I cant agree we hunt red setters here for years but the look of the red setter has being diluted why cant you have good hunting dogs that bear the traditional look of the deep solid red dog my family have hunted over setters for 50 years or more,
sotg

snipe49

sonofthegun wrote: »

I cant agree we hunt red setters here for years but the look of the red setter has being diluted why cant you have good hunting dogs that bear the traditional look of the deep solid red dog my family have hunted over setters for 50 years or more,
sotg

Well said. I have some 20 year old video of my self and my father shoot beet fields with 3 full red setters. And my father still shoots over a full red bitch at the age of 76.

irish setter

sonofthegun wrote: »

I cant agree we hunt red setters here for years but the look of the red setter has being diluted why cant you have good hunting dogs that bear the traditional look of the deep solid red dog my family have hunted over setters for 50 years or more,
sotg

Reading the history of individual dogs will tell you they came in different sizes and shades back then as they do now. My two don't come much darker

sonofthegun

my boy rua. this is how I have always seen red setters its what I grew up with I suppose this is what I think a hunting red setter should look like
sotg

jap gt

irish setter

sonofthegun wrote: »

my boy rua. this is how I have always seen red setters its what I grew up with I suppose this is what I think a hunting red setter should look like
sotg

Lovely dog but not as uncommon as you think. But I'll always pick ability over looks and the red setter is stronger now than it has ever been.

sonofthegun

irish setter wrote: »

Lovely dog but not as uncommon as you think. But I'll always pick ability over looks and the red setter is stronger now than it has ever been.

why cant you have both ability and the look I never said my type of dog was uncommon but are becoming less common also consider the piles of sh1t lads are breeding as "hunting" setters when the lads that own them have never seen a field let alone a shotgun I can name 3 in south tipp alone
Im not knocking you dogs a all lad I just prefer a dark red setter and I don't think you would find a hand full of good working setters around me I would hope that the traditional hunting setter is stronger in some parts of the country
sotg

irish setter

sonofthegun wrote: »

why cant you have both ability and the look I never said my type of dog was uncommon but are becoming less common also consider the piles of sh1t lads are breeding as "hunting" setters when the lads that own them have never seen a field let alone a shotgun I can name 3 in south tipp alone
Im not knocking you dogs a all lad I just prefer a dark red setter and I don't think you would find a hand full of good working setters around me I would hope that the traditional hunting setter is stronger in some parts of the country
sotg

I'm in south Tipp and I don't know of anyone breeding red setters round me. The deep red dog is not the only traditional setter. I agree that there is the world of rubbish being bred and I think the darker dog is nicer on the eye. But I also know there is light coloured dogs that would put darker ones to shame. And the same is the case the other way round. When it comes to breeding if you breed two dogs with average ability the average of the resulting pups will be less. That's why only the ones with the best ability should be bred. That's why there is so much rubbish being bred by people without a clue. That's why for me looks are not the highest priority

blackpearl

had reds for 35 years big heavy boned dark dogs with white on chest and top of head even the latest dogs are from nashes breeding and that is only back to grandfather nearly all of the dogs I had were good retrivers and good in heavy cover it cant have been luck but some people shudder when you mention red setters they say had one never have another.i would not have anything else around the place.

paddy2008

Well lads have my first gundog and she is a nice dark red setter 4 months old any straight to the point tips on starting her to set! Thanks in advance

jap gt

paddy2008 wrote: »

Well lads have my first gundog and she is a nice dark red setter 4 months old any straight to the point tips on starting her to set! Thanks in advance

shes only 4 months, let her be a pup until shes a bit older she will need plenty of birds to get her pointing and steady, but its the wrong time of year to meet birds, build a bond etc with her until august/september then start her on birds,

a red was my first dog aswell, its a steep learning curve, but give time and enough work its hard to beat the red setter

snipe49

paddy2008 wrote: »

Well lads have my first gundog and she is a nice dark red setter 4 months old any straight to the point tips on starting her to set! Thanks in advance

well done took my advice on full red. u could try the rod and wing but may be a bit soon. good look with her

TriggerPL

http://youtu.be/5_GvZpN6Bbw

irish setter

paddy2008 wrote: »

Well lads have my first gundog and she is a nice dark red setter 4 months old any straight to the point tips on starting her to set! Thanks in advance

Well done on your choice. The best thing you can do for her now is take her for plenty of walks and forget about trying to get her to point. If she is bred well enough she will point in her own time given opportunity. People get hung up on trying to get their dogs to point that they end up with dogs with loads of point and no hunt. In time when she is at least 8 months take her to game and let her flush and chase birds and learn to love the hunt. Some reds set early and some take up to 2years. Often the later ones are the best. If she starts to set early I'd take her away from game for a while. The wing on a rod is great to demonstrate how a setter learns to set but it usless as a training tool so I'd avoid that. Best of luck with her

blackpearl

have to agree red setter,the best ones I had were the ones who took 2 years to set,one dog took 3 years that was tough going but by god for the next 10 years retrieving, waterwork, cover and setting I would say he came out top of my league ,so I would say give your dog loads of time don't be rushing him it will come togeather when he is ready.

sonofthegun

blackpearl wrote: »

have to agree red setter,the best ones I had were the ones who took 2 years to set,one dog took 3 years that was tough going but by god for the next 10 years retrieving, waterwork, cover and setting I would say he came out top of my league ,so I would say give your dog loads of time don't be rushing him it will come togeather when he is ready.

+1 building a life long bond with the your dog starts now the ability to set is bred into them and just remember to be patient as a red setter is a slower dog to mature
sotg