Advice on supplements, training and diet?

Deedsie

Hi,

I was discussing the appropriate supplement for me to purchase over on the supplements thread and some of the posters there suggested I make a daily diet thread so they could advise me better. I tried to be as hard on myself as possible below. I totally understand that diet is my problem, I have struggled with it for years. If someone could take a look below and offer me some advice I would appreciate it.

Personal details

Age 30

Height 178cm

Weights 83.5kg

Body fat ~16%


I have improved a good bit in the last few months exercise wise, diet is clearly stopping me lose the remainder of the body fat etc. I have added a relatively large amount of muscle mass to my arms, shoulders, back, legs etc. Most body fat remains around my waist.


Training


For the last three months I have been training four days a week at lunch time 12:35 to 13:15


Monday Bench press 75 kg 5x5 60kg 5x10

Tuesday Squat 85 kg 5x5 65kg 5x10

Wednesday Overhead press 50 kg 5x5 40kg 5x10

Thursday Deadlift 100kg 5x8

Friday Rest Day

Saturday It varies from: Push ups/run/incline sprints/swim/cycle/hill walk

Sunday Rest Day


I also occasionally cycle to work 8km each way but I am usually exhausted with the gym and work for the last few months so that has reduced a lot.


Diet/Nutrition


My diet is absolute bull****. There is no consistency to it so giving an example of a diet is difficult. I have tried many many times to structure it, always falls apart unfortunately. 100% my fault.


Monday to Thursday


Get up at seven, office for 8 ish:


I just drink water until break time in the work canteen


10:00: I would usually have a boiled egg, cup of tea, beans and a sausage roll ( big meal to give me energy for the gym and work)


11:30 banana


13:30 banana/spoon of peanut butter and a true whey protein shake


15:00 Tesco sandwich chicken and stuffing, sliced fruit packet & a yop (€3.50 meal deal)


17:30 cup of tea at home. Usually some treat with it.


Dinner around 19:00 meat and two veg usually. A lot of “occasional” chicken curries lately from the take away


Friday


10:00


Fried egg, two sausages and two slices of McCambridges bread toasted and a butter.


12:30


Brown roll, mayo, chicken, stuffing, peppers, cheese from spar or an obriens triple decker sandwich


16:00


Sandwich


18:30

Fish and chips dinner


Saturday & Sunday


10:00 crunchy nut cornflakes or some other crap cereal. Occasionally porridge


13:00 Sandwich


16:00 dinner/take away


The odd weekend I would go for a few drinks, much less in the last year. 5 or 6 pints once or twice every two months would be an average id say.


Now as bad as that diet is it would still be made worse by the treats and snacks that could sneak in here there and everywhere at the weekends. I don’t even realise it is happening and I have wolfed down a bar and crisps etc.


I do drink a lot of water during the day in work and i have tried to increase water consumption throughout the evening.


Sorry that was so long. Just trying to be comprehensive.

Stench Blossoms

You know your diet is bad already and it needs to change so what advice do you want?

tmc86

Simply cut out the takeaways, curries, sausage rolls, treats & snacks.

Replace with meat/fish & loads of veg. If you find you don't have enough energy then add in low GI carbs e.g. sweet potato/brown rice

There's a lot of bread in your diet so look to replace with high protein salads at lunch etc.

Best thing you could do is look at preparing your lunches and snacks at home and bring them into work. That way you won't have to go for convenient, less nutritious options.

Finally, the main thing is to work out your daily calorie intake and ensure you're running a calorie deficit. (calculations in the stickies)

Deedsie

tmc86 wrote: »

Simply cut out the takeaways, curries, sausage rolls, treats & snacks.

Replace with meat/fish & loads of veg. If you find you don't have enough energy then add in low GI carbs e.g. sweet potato/brown rice

There's a lot of bread in your diet so look to replace with high protein salads at lunch etc.

Best thing you could do is look at preparing your lunches and snacks at home and bring them into work. That way you won't have to go for convenient, less nutritious options.

Finally, the main thing is to work out your daily calorie intake and ensure you're running a calorie deficit. (calculations in the stickies)

Ya I guess it really is as straightforward as you point out. I have calculated my daily calorific need before, I should do it again really. I think it was 2200 the last time around.

The canteen in work is a bit rubbish, but it would be so handy if I could just have a healthy mid morning snack from there. I'll try swap the beans and sausage roll for something else. I'll def try cut out the take aways and rubbish snacks. It's just hard for me for what ever reason to have discipline when it comes to food.

In three months I haven't missed a session in the gym so I am happy with that side of things. Anyone any comments on my training schedule?

Do you use the same weight for each lift each time, or do you attempt to increase the weight regularly?

tmc86

Deedsie wrote: »

Ya I guess it really is as straightforward as you point out. I have calculated my daily calorific need before, I should do it again really. I think it was 2200 the last time around.

The canteen in work is a bit rubbish, but it would be so handy if I could just have a healthy mid morning snack from there. I'll try swap the beans and sausage roll for something else. I'll def try cut out the take aways and rubbish snacks. It's just hard for me for what ever reason to have discipline when it comes to food.

In three months I haven't missed a session in the gym so I am happy with that side of things. Anyone any comments on my training schedule?

I bring mid morning snacks to work with me, something simple like nuts, fruit, yoghurt etc somedays I'll bring 2 eggs and then use the microwave at work to make scrambled. Are there any kitchen facilities at work?

To be honest, that last bit of bodyfat around the waist (the most stubborn) will be shifted with a calorie deficit diet rather than your training.

If you can increase the intensity of your workouts and include cycling more often to work then you should start to see a gradual difference but if it's a bit of bodyfat that you're looking to shift then the calorie deficit is your man.

Deedsie

gvn wrote: »

Do you use the same weight for each lift each time, or do you attempt to increase the weight regularly?

Oh sorry I should have been clearer, that was the weights I lifted last week.

I try to lift more where possible but recently changed it to increase reps at a slightly lower weight as I don't feel as **** after that. 5x5 at 85 kg & 5x10 squats at 65kg instead of just 5x5 at 100kg?

Mellor

Your diet is awful. There's no point discussing it.
You need to change it, and commit to the new diet for a week of more, write every thing down. Then come back and discuss that diet, refine it if needed.

thegreatiam

seems by your comments in this thread and the supplement thread that you (like 99% of people) think that supplement are the way to plug the holes in a bad diet.

They are not.

I can categorically state as fact that the overwhelming majority of people taking supplement do not need them, in fact only those in extreme situations either through activity. limited diet of medical problems need supplement.

Fix your diet. This will involve a little bit of knowledge and a little bit of effort, but once that is accomplished your diet will be fine.

Learn how your body uses food. protein for structure, carbs for energy and fats for hormone production/energy

learn how to get it into you, eat meat, fish and veg at every meal time. and you will have almost no need for any supplements.

Once you are consistently eating regular meals of meat and veg and tracking the amounts you consume you can work out what supplement, if any you need.

there is no point trying to get a range of supplement into you now as your diet is all over the place.

supplement are there to boost what already exists, not to shore up junk. fix the foundations before you decorate the ceiling.

Deedsie

thegreatiam wrote: »

seems by your comments in this thread and the supplement thread that you (like 99% of people) think that supplement are the way to plug the holes in a bad diet.

They are not.

I can categorically state as fact that the overwhelming majority of people taking supplement do not need them, in fact only those in extreme situations either through activity. limited diet of medical problems need supplement.

Fix your diet. This will involve a little bit of knowledge and a little bit of effort, but once that is accomplished your diet will be fine.

Learn how your body uses food. protein for structure, carbs for energy and fats for hormone production/energy

learn how to get it into you, eat meat, fish and veg at every meal time. and you will have almost no need for any supplements.

Once you are consistently eating regular meals of meat and veg and tracking the amounts you consume you can work out what supplement, if any you need.

there is no point trying to get a range of supplement into you now as your diet is all over the place.

supplement are there to boost what already exists, not to shore up junk. fix the foundations before you decorate the ceiling.

"Fix the foundations before you decorate the ceiling" is a good way to explain my diet issue.

I might try mock up a possible diet for the next week for somewhere to maybe critique?

generic2012

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/tools/bmr-and-daily-calorie-calculator.html using this calculator and your stats your basal metabolic rate is 2607 calories. 'Mock up' your possible diet and put it into a calorie counter, post the calories and macronutrients it tallies up for you, then post. Then you will get advice on whether people think you will progress in the gym with those calories or if you might be able to lose weight faster with a bigger calorie deficit. The foods are largely irrelevant at the calorie level, you should only need to ask for advice on specific foods if you want to know stuff like - do people find food 'x' makes them feel full for long, does food 'y' sit in their stomach all right during training, peoples advice on what worked for them etc

Mellor

Deedsie wrote: »

"Fix the foundations before you decorate the ceiling" is a good way to explain my diet issue.

I might try mock up a possible diet for the next week for somewhere to maybe critique?

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

Unless you've been shopping for the week and half all the food already (unlikely) than a mocked up diet probably won't be what you'll eat unless you really commit to it.
A good way to do this is to turn the mock up into a shopping list for the week.

Deedsie

Mellor wrote: »

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

Unless you've been shopping for the week and half all the food already (unlikely) than a mocked up diet probably won't be what you'll eat unless you really commit to it.
A good way to do this is to turn the mock up into a shopping list for the week.

I'm going to go shopping Saturday and between now and then I will try to plan out what structure my diet will take.

@generic2012

I did a calorie counter for today on myfitnesspal just to see how it worked etc there are still massive problems with this diet but tho is what I ate today. Had the rashers just to clean out the fridge.

I entered the details of my strength training workout today and it came up with 250 calories. Is that a bit low or does it sound about right?

Deedsie

My daily summary is a little confusing, what does Net 1776 mean in the below image?

Mellor

Deedsie wrote: »

I did a calorie counter for today on myfitnesspal just to see how it worked etc there are still massive problems with this diet but tho is what I ate today. Had the rashers just to clean out the fridge.

That's the gist of how it works. Just be careful with the option you select, because they are user inserted, and some of them are wrong.
Eg, two slices of butter toast is never 110 calories. Prob 250.
Check the data on the label.

I entered the details of my strength training workout today and it came up with 250 calories. Is that a bit low or does it sound about right?

Thats sounds about right for 1 hour of strength training. Personally I don't add my strength training calories on top, as this can over estimate. Eg, the 250 your burned wasn't 250 extra, as you would have burned c.100 cals just watched TV.

Deedsie wrote: »

My daily summary is a little confusing, what does Net 1776 mean in the below image?

Your goal calories are 2030.
You've calculated that you ate 2026, almost all you daily calls.
But you did 250 cals of work extra, so it allows to take this away from what you've eaten, this is your net intake. 2026-250 = 1776. In theory you could allow an extra 250 cals today compared to a non-training day.


However the above highlights the biggest problem with trying to track cals and exercise. People tend to over estimate the work they do, and under estimate the food they are eating. Through no fault of your own, you are doing both above (under est the toast, not discounting rest cals form training)

thegreatiam

Always enter your food your self or scan the bar code. Do not use the pre generated meals.

If that means weighing 3 rashers of bacon and 2 slices of bread then that's what you should do.

Weigh everything you eat at least for the first 2 weeks. This will get you able to understand what your food is worth macrowise.

And don't bother tracking exercise in Myfitnesspall.com. its random at best and at worst it's miss leading. Just use the food log.

Deedsie

Mellor wrote: »

That's the gist of how it works. Just be careful with the option you select, because they are user inserted, and some of them are wrong.
Eg, two slices of butter toast is never 110 calories. Prob 250.
Check the data on the label.

Thats sounds about right for 1 hour of strength training. Personally I don't add my strength training calories on top, as this can over estimate. Eg, the 250 your burned wasn't 250 extra, as you would have burned c.100 cals just watched TV.



Your goal calories are 2030.
You've calculated that you ate 2026, almost all you daily calls.
But you did 250 cals of work extra, so it allows to take this away from what you've eaten, this is your net intake. 2026-250 = 1776. In theory you could allow an extra 250 cals today compared to a non-training day.


However the above highlights the biggest problem with trying to track cals and exercise. People tend to over estimate the work they do, and under estimate the food they are eating. Through no fault of your own, you are doing both above (under est the toast, not discounting rest cals form training)

I am a little disappointed to read that. I thought just having extra muscle burns more calories. That was the plan anyway why I cut out the cardio and just focused on strength training. My goal now is just to cut off the stomach fat or at least the majority of it. If I could get down to 80kg that would be great.

thegreatiam wrote: »

Always enter your food your self or scan the bar code. Do not use the pre generated meals.

If that means weighing 3 rashers of bacon and 2 slices of bread then that's what you should do.

Weigh everything you eat at least for the first 2 weeks. This will get you able to understand what your food is worth macrowise.

And don't bother tracking exercise in Myfitnesspall.com. its random at best and at worst it's miss leading. Just use the food log.

I will have to familiarise myself a bit more with myfitnesspal. We have a scales at home but for work it will be harder to weigh things. Is it necessary to weigh a weetabix or a boiled egg or McCambridges bread for example? When I search on the site an option comes up for them.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread by the way.

Alf Veedersane

Deedsie wrote: »

Is it necessary to way a weetabix or a boiled egg or McCambridges bread for example? When I search on the site an option comes up for them.

No, you can just enter the number of weetabix and slices of McCambridges bread and it will spit out the info. You should just cross-check with the nutritional info on the packet to make sure it's right but usually they are for items like that.

You need to measure the milk you're putting on the weetabix initially as well though. That's easy though.

You just need to itemise what ingredients for a week or two. After that you should be familiar with the portions and the associated calories and macros.

Deedsie

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

No, you can just enter the number of weetabix and slices of McCambridges bread and it will spit out the info. You should just cross-check with the nutritional info on the packet to make sure it's right but usually they are for items like that.

You need to measure the milk you're putting on the weetabix initially as well though. That's easy though.

You just need to itemise what ingredients for a week or two. After that you should be familiar with the portions and the associated calories and macros.

I get the calorie side of things but I am clueless when it comes to Macros? No idea about macronutrients really. Is that the breakdown of carbs, protein and fats within whatever you are eating?

Alf Veedersane

Deedsie wrote: »

I get the calorie side of things but I am clueless when it comes to Macros? No idea about macronutrients really. Is that the breakdown of carbs, protein and fats within whatever you are eating?

That's it in one.

I wouldn't get too tied up in it yet because you just want to work on calories but it's a useful layer of information.

thegreatiam

Some processed foods are standardised. So they are in mfp and accurate. Most non processed food is not standard so you should weigh it.
A weetabix is a weetabix. Most likely all the same as each other.
Eggs can vary widely. As can veg meat fish dairy etc. Weigh that.

maxwell88

If your serious about bodybuilding/rugby/mma etc

Cut out drink, train naturally for five years, then evaluate your progress

If your bodybuilding then you will probably have to jump on the sauce

If you wanna turn pro in rugby DON'T BE NAIVE everyone pro rugby player is on gear.You will have to jump on it to compete

But train at least 5 years naturally first

Deedsie

How would you add a vegetable juice drink to a myfitnesspal calorie counter? I am starting juicing today to try get the veg into my diet.

Slobbery

Deedsie wrote: »

How would you add a vegetable juice drink to a myfitnesspal calorie counter? I am starting juicing today to try get the veg into my diet.

weigh out all the vedge individually and add them to a recipe in my fitness pal (settings , My recipes, enter recipe), this is a handy way because you can just select that recipe in future if you make juice the same way from now on.

Looking at the timings you eat during the week (10AM - 18:30) you are eating for 8.5hrs and fasting for 15.5hrs.... are you familiar with intermittent fasting? (16/8 leangains) might be something to look into if you are tidying up your diet and maybe considering early morning fasted training. one of my friends did it with great results, it does make the bellyfat disappear but I myself prefer a few punishing cardio sessions instead - just brought it to your attention when i noticed your eating patterns
this website may be useful
http://simplesciencefitness.com/#exercise