Personally addressed religious mail

IT-Guy

So I came home from work this evening to find an envelope addressed to me with my name and address handwritten on it. Opened it to find photocopied printouts and articles from religious websites and publications/newspapers with handwritten xenophobic notes on some of them and the overall tone is very there's-a-conspiracy-against-the-church.

I'm a bit stunned to have this kind of shiite posted to me personally by persons unknown so before I start making phone calls to friends and family to see if they've given my name and address to anyone recently, I just wanted to find out if anyone else has received anything like this i.e. is this some personalised mass marketing bs or just some holy joe with a creepy interest in my non existent soul?

Link to pdf of mail: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9zJCTjZPDXiY2lIWklFbHBJal9MaEdyTWhpX0t4dmMtRTlV/edit?usp=sharing

Sheldons Brain

Who phones their family when they get spam? This would be both a waste of time and offensive to your family. Religious nuts can take names from the electoral register/phone book etc the same as everyone else.

IT-Guy

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Who phones their family when they get spam? This would be both a waste of time and offensive to your family. Religious nuts can take names from the electoral register/phone book etc the same as everyone else.

Not listed in either of those I'm afraid. The point of asking friends/family would be to ideally track down the idiot doing this and if it persists, to ask him/her to stop. I don't think this qualifies as spam or junk mail either tbh...

Gordon

That's nuts! I take it the handwriting was in actual pen, as opposed to printed script that looks like handwriting?

IT-Guy

Gordon wrote: »

That's nuts! I take it the handwriting was in actual pen, as opposed to printed script that looks like handwriting?

Yep it's actual handwriting. All of it is photocopied bar the page with the vatican II tree on it, the handwriting referring to St. Vincent is in pen writing on the page, the rest is photocopied. Still can't get my head around it tbh

gctest50

IT-Guy wrote: »

........I don't think this qualifies as spam or junk mail either tbh...

If it was posted - bit tricky to find

If it was hand delivered - get a security camera with motion-sensing before the looper is boiling your bunny-rabbit or whatever they do

sopretty

Have you spoken out publicly recently in relation to religion, where someone would establish your name and address?

That sh*t be freaking me out to be honest! :eek:

percy212

I have seen stuff like this before; written by schizophrenics living on the streets. I would ignore it for now. If you receive anything further take the lot to the police.

IT-Guy

gctest50 wrote: »

If it was posted - bit tricky to find

If it was hand delivered - get a security camera with motion-sensing before the looper is boiling your bunny-rabbit or whatever they do

Posted but the amount of people who know my address is relatively limited. It's fairly easy info to find if you really wanted to but why anyone would want to is the question! Hopefully there won't be any more unsolicited religious ramblings in the post for me. Any bunny boilers will have to bring their own rabbit I'm afraid

sopretty wrote: »

Have you spoken out publicly recently in relation to religion, where someone would establish your name and address?

That sh*t be freaking me out to be honest! :eek:

Yeah it's weird alright, housemate got a good laugh out of it though! Anyone who knows me knows I'm an atheist and I wouldn't be all that outspoken about religion and the church etc but at the same time not afraid to speak my mind if the topic comes up in conversation and never where my name and address could be determined.

IT-Guy

percy212 wrote: »

I have seen stuff like this before; written by schizophrenics living on the streets. I would ignore it for now. If you receive anything further take the lot to the police.

Doesn't explain how they got my name and address though? As I said earlier, I'm not listed in the phonebook or in the electoral register. At the moment there's nothing malicious about it so no need to get the Gardai involved, it's just got me puzzled is all

Peregrinus

1. This is weird.

2. It's not mass-marketing. A hand-addressed envelope, plus original handwritten material inside, means that you personally have been chosen for this (and not in the sense that you are personally chosen to participate in a Readers Digest draw).

3. But I doubt that you have been chosen for this as an atheist. The material you've been sent is not directed at atheism/atheists but at mainstream Catholicism, from a traditionalist perspective. Somebody hopes to influence your opininion in that particulr spat, but an atheist would presumably be indifferent to that particular spat.

4. Percy suggests going to the police if there is any repetition. You won't get much joy there; I can't see that any offence, or anything even remotely close to being an offence, is being committed. Somebody is sending you stuff that you have no interest int, and you don't know why they think you might be interested in it? Pffft!

mikom

Peregrinus wrote: »

1. This is weird.

It's not mass-marketing.

I think you'll find it is...........

SpaceTime

Did you have any major row or debate with anyone about religion recently ?

Very strange.

The camera is a good idea!

Was it stamped and posted?

IT-Guy

Peregrinus wrote: »

1. This is weird.

2. It's not mass-marketing. A hand-addressed envelope, plus original handwritten material inside, means that you personally have been chosen for this (and not in the sense that you are personally chosen to participate in a Readers Digest draw).

3. But I doubt that you have been chosen for this as an atheist. The material you've been sent is not directed at atheism/atheists but at mainstream Catholicism, from a traditionalist perspective. Somebody hopes to influence your opininion in that particulr spat, but an atheist would presumably be indifferent to that particular spat.

4. Percy suggests going to the police if there is any repetition. You won't get much joy there; I can't see that any offence, or anything even remotely close to being an offence, is being committed. Somebody is sending you stuff that you have no interest int, and you don't know why they think you might be interested in it? Pffft!

Yep it's got me stumped! Kudos on point 2, I was thinking that but didn't quite express it clearly. Weird how anyone would think I was in anyway interested in anything to do with mass and traditional catholic views thereof. Haven't the faintest notion of getting the Gardai involved, nothing malicious or threatening in it.

mikom wrote: »

I think you'll find it is...........

Care to elaborate?

SpaceTime wrote: »

Did you have any major row or debate with anyone about religion recently ?

Very strange.

The camera is a good idea!

Was it stamped and posted?

I have a close friend who is religious and we've often rowed about religion amongst many things but she wouldn't be so deeply religious as to be sending out any form of religious literature, let alone material assuming I'm familiar with arguments/controversy regarding new vs traditional mass.

As the letter was stamped and posted I think a camera is a tad premature!

I did give a monthly contribution to St. John of God a few years ago for the space of a year, just wondering if there's anyway my name is on a list of ex-donators that was accessed by a more radical member of their organisation who's got some personal crusade going on?

mikom

Peregrinus wrote: »

This is weird.

It's not mass-marketing.

mikom wrote: »

I think you'll find it is...........

IT-Guy wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

They want you to go to mass.

IT-Guy

mikom wrote: »

They want you to go to mass.

Doh!

Peregrinus

IT-Guy wrote: »

I did give a monthly contribution to St. John of God a few years ago for the space of a year, just wondering if there's anyway my name is on a list of ex-donators that was accessed by a more radical member of their organisation who's got some personal crusade going on?

It's unlikely, to be honest. From the tone of the material you've been sent, the sender would be pretty hostile to the St. John of God brothers, so not in a position to get close enough to them to steal their database.

But then, any explanation of how they got your address is going to sound pretty unlikely.

My (pretty unlikely) guess: Clearly the sender doesn't know you well enough to know that the guff they are sending you is of no interest to you, one way or the other. Thus, although they selected you for this purpose, they selected you knowing not very much about you, and (presumably) knowing that they didn't know very much about you. You're a "shot in the dark", as far as they're concerned. Possibly they feel called to some kind of witnessing about their beliefs, and they have decided on sending material through the post to a few more-or-less randomly selected people, of whom you have the good fortune to be one.

If that's so, they could have got your address from almost any database that you might be on, and that they happen to have access to. The database need not be remotely religious in nature. They work at your bank, or your insurers, or at the ESB, or even at the Post Office. Or they work where you work, and have access to personnel databases. Or they're a neighbour of yours, and they know your name and which house you live in.

Handy hint: It's too late now, but I have a friend in the US who, whenever he gave his name and address to a business, always gave a different middle initial - Sean A Citizen, Sean B Citizen, Sean C Citizen. That way, whenever he got personally addressed unsolicited guff, he knew who was selling his details to others, and he could (and did) withdraw his business from the offender.

Turtwig

That middle initial idea is brilliant. Is it legal though?

Peregrinus

Jernal wrote: »

That middle initial idea is brilliant. Is it legal though?

Don't see why it wouldn't be legal. In general you can call yourself anything you like, as long as you are not doing so in an attempt to defraud.

Signed,

Professor Sir Peregrinus de Valera

Gordon

On that note, also protect your email address by buying a domain name for 20 quid a year and setting up your email address on that website. Set it up as a catch-all address (if an email is sent to an address that doesn't exist, it will pick it up) and when you need to give your email out to businesses give out personalised addresses - business1@mydomain.com, business2@mydomain.com.

That way you will get those incoming emails into your catchall mailbox and know who signs you up for spam. And if you want to switch them off, create the emailbox with that name and set it up with a zero/small inbox size in your Admin cp.

smacl

@IT-Guy

Maybe a bit obvious, but why not just contact the source of the letter, ask them where they got your name and address, and whose permission they have to use it. Reminding them of course that they would require permission to hold such details on file or be in breach of the data protection act, that your contact details are all ex-directory, and that you take this kind of thing very seriously indeed.

It could also be a wind up. We had a God botherer at work some years back who was forever leaving pamphlets on our desks, so a couple of us made it our business to sign him up for every hooky religious and self help group around in retribution.

Peregrinus

smacl wrote: »

@IT-Guy

Maybe a bit obvious, but why not just contact the source of the letter . . .

Because he doesn't know who the source of the letter is. He says so in the OP.

smacl

Peregrinus wrote: »

Because he doesn't know who the source of the letter is. He says so in the OP.

How about the hand written contact details advertising the mass in question? i.e. St Peter and Paul's, Cork



Edit: Or for extra bonus points, show up in a long coat and dark glasses, and see who you recognise coming out of the church after mass.

SpaceTime

IT-Guy wrote: »

Yep it's got me stumped! Kudos on point 2, I was thinking that but didn't quite express it clearly. Weird how anyone would think I was in anyway interested in anything to do with mass and traditional catholic views thereof. Haven't the faintest notion of getting the Gardai involved, nothing malicious or threatening in it.



Care to elaborate?



I have a close friend who is religious and we've often rowed about religion amongst many things but she wouldn't be so deeply religious as to be sending out any form of religious literature, let alone material assuming I'm familiar with arguments/controversy regarding new vs traditional mass.

As the letter was stamped and posted I think a camera is a tad premature!

I did give a monthly contribution to St. John of God a few years ago for the space of a year, just wondering if there's anyway my name is on a list of ex-donators that was accessed by a more radical member of their organisation who's got some personal crusade going on?

I would doubt it's anything to do with them.

Sounds more like someone you know or an acquaintance.

I know people who work in family planning and some politicians who've had this kind of thing before.

Did you sign any petitions? Have a blog or Twitter account that might identify you?

If you've a domain it may have Whois records with your home address.

Just beware that photos often have embedded GPS coordinates in the metadata so, sometimes it can be quite easy to inadvertently give away your home address on social media or even in blog or forum posts.

You can Tweet a pic of your cat and discover it has coordinates for your kitchen embedded!


Also make sure your phone isn't sending posts to any social media with GPS tagging switched on.

eviltwin

Are you living in such a way that someone in your locality might feel you need to find God? Could you ask your neighbours if they received anything similar?

Its creepy, I would hate to think I had been singled out by someone for that kind of stuff.

FanMahBrow

I'm in Cork too and got one of these last year, posted and addressed to me. I only skimmed it and used it to start the fire that morning. Burned quite nicely, please send more.

The nearest church to me (Shanakiel) does a Tridentine Latin mass every Sunday so I assumed it was them or someone who thought my soul needed a bit of saving.
Next-door neighbour said she'd gotten the same stuff a while previously so was probably a mass-marketing exercise...

Benny_Cake

eviltwin wrote: »

Are you living in such a way that someone in your locality might feel you need to find God? Could you ask your neighbours if they received anything similar?

Its creepy, I would hate to think I had been singled out by someone for that kind of stuff.

As Peregrinus pointed out though, the intended audience for this would appear to be mainstream Irish Catholics, not atheists. Why would an atheist care less about the differences between the Tridentine and Novus Ordo Mass? I would guess it was sent to a large group of people by a single weirdo with a list of names and addresses and a lot of time on their hands.

The anti-Muslim stuff about Turkish barbers and so on is particularly nasty though. I'd hate to think there might be a group involved in something like this.

Flippyfloppy

FanMahBrow wrote: »

I'm in Cork too and got one of these last year, posted and addressed to me. I only skimmed it and used it to start the fire that morning. Burned quite nicely, please send more.

The nearest church to me (Shanakiel) does a Tridentine Latin mass every Sunday so I assumed it was them or someone who thought my soul needed a bit of saving.
Next-door neighbour said she'd gotten the same stuff a while previously so was probably a mass-marketing exercise...

Why they think anyone would find this type of stuff appealing stumps me!

Doctor DooM

OP if it helps I wouldn't let this bother you as I've heard of several people receiving similar letters.

I have one friend who works in a radio station who frequently receives them too there.

I don't know if it is one unwell person or this is something that a lot of people get as a symptom, but I don't think it is worth the worry.

vibe666

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Why they think anyone would find this type of stuff appealing stumps me!

they don't, they're just trying to spread their particular brand of nutbaggery as far and wide as possible, that's just what they do.

get their faithful flock to send out personal looking letters far and wide and every now and again it piques someone's interest and they go along out of curiosity, job done.

i have a mate who's a mormon and as part of their faith spreading requirements he has to go door knocking to spread the word like the JW's do. he married into it and i'm pretty sure he just goes along with it for a quiet life.

old hippy

IT-Guy wrote: »

So I came home from work this evening to find an envelope addressed to me with my name and address handwritten on it. Opened it to find photocopied printouts and articles from religious websites and publications/newspapers with handwritten xenophobic notes on some of them and the overall tone is very there's-a-conspiracy-against-the-church.

I'm a bit stunned to have this kind of shiite posted to me personally by persons unknown so before I start making phone calls to friends and family to see if they've given my name and address to anyone recently, I just wanted to find out if anyone else has received anything like this i.e. is this some personalised mass marketing bs or just some holy joe with a creepy interest in my non existent soul?

Link to pdf of mail: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9zJCTjZPDXiY2lIWklFbHBJal9MaEdyTWhpX0t4dmMtRTlV/edit?usp=sharing

The handwriting reminds me of a letter we were faxed at work, back in the 90s. I have a copy of it knocking about, somewhere. Basically this chap wanted Gerry Adams, Ian Paisley and whoever was the Taoiseach at the time to go to the Hill of Tara and retrieve the stone of destiny and the Ark of the Covenant. Or something like that. He left contact details but we didn't follow up on his idea

SpaceTime

It could be a group doing handwritten letters to make it seem more 'personal' i.e. freaky.

SpaceTime

This Glove and Boots video may help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkBPxfJTjK8

smacl

Do someone say spam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE

FanMahBrow

Bloody Vikings.

tricky D

You could sign up for more of this crap. At least it would mean that some of that type of literature is redirected away from those with badly calibrated or plain broken bullsh1t detectors. Also might provide some degree of humour and keep us appraised of what currant nuttiness is doing the rounds.

FouxDaFaFa

The stuff about Turkish barbers is...unsettling. As annoying as it would be to get all the waffle about Latin Mass, that kind of xenophobic crap would make me livid. I can understand why you want to find out who sent it.

I mean, it sounds insane:

Turkish barber shops are springing up all over the city. It's their way of coming in for the take over (sic) and our own are supporting them. Defend your country. Support our own while there is still time.

It reminds me of that weird anti-Muslim leaflet from a while back. I'll have a look to see if I can find a link to it. edit: here

And the whole "Masons", "One World Religion", "religious warfare" thing in the handwritten section. They're not the kind of people I'd be thrilled with having my personal details.

Maybe get in touch with the organisation in Kentucky that it originally came from? Their email is library@olrl.org. They say on their site that anyone can copy and distribute the material from their site provided they don't alter the text, which whoever sent it to you did (barbers, etc). Maybe they'd be inclined to let you know if they've been contacted by anyone near you regarding the use of materials. That could help you narrow it down.

(Sorry if this is overboard, I've been watching a lot of Veronica Mars lately).

robindch

Peregrinus wrote: »

I have a friend in the US who, whenever he gave his name and address to a business, always gave a different middle initial - Sean A Citizen, Sean B Citizen, Sean C Citizen.

It's a good idea and I've been doing it for ages though some of the companies have been sold and changed name, so the initials don't always match up these days.

Hotblack Desiato

SpaceTime wrote: »

Also make sure your phone isn't sending posts to any social media with GPS tagging switched on.

Especially not if you're a TD

vibe666 wrote: »

i have a mate who's a mormon and as part of their faith spreading requirements he has to go door knocking to spread the word like the JW's do. he married into it and i'm pretty sure he just goes along with it for a quiet life.

Some guys really will put up with anything for the prospect of a very occasional ride. Sexy mormon undies or no!

Kidchameleon

OP do you go headhunting for the source of every spam that comes in your door? Does this extend to email spam aswell?

Gordon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OP do you go headhunting for the source of every spam that comes in your door? Does this extend to email spam aswell?

Completely different to personalised, handwritten letters addressed to the OP. Surprised anyone would think email spam and the OP's mail is comparable.

Brian Shanahan

Gordon wrote: »

Completely different to personalised, handwritten letters addressed to the OP. Surprised anyone would think email spam and the OP's mail is comparable.

That's Kidchameleon for you, "I'm an atheist, but religion, it's the best!"

Turtwig

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OP do you go headhunting for the source of every spam that comes in your door? Does this extend to email spam aswell?

Why is that in just about every thread you post lately it's always you making these type of remarks? Post something constructive to discuss or you may find your posts being actioned on.

Kidchameleon

Jernal wrote: »

Why is that in just about every thread you post lately it's always you making these type of remarks? Post something constructive to discuss or you may find your posts being actioned on.

My point is to throw the religious mail in the bin, like every other bit of spam the OP receives!

smacl

Kidchameleon wrote: »

My point is to throw the religious mail in the bin, like every other bit of spam the OP receives!

Do you receive much personally addressed hand written spam containing objectionable xenophobic content that you suspect comes from someone you know as your contact details are ex-directory?

TwoShedsJackson

Kidchameleon wrote: »

My point is to throw the religious mail in the bin, like every other bit of spam the OP receives!

No, your 'point' is that because you wouldn't be bothered by it, no-one else should be either.

gaynorvader

Peregrinus wrote: »

{...}

4. Percy suggests going to the police if there is any repetition. You won't get much joy there; I can't see that any offence, or anything even remotely close to being an offence, is being committed. Somebody is sending you stuff that you have no interest int, and you don't know why they think you might be interested in it? Pffft!

Illegal dumping?

SpaceTime

Sending anything that could be seen as incitement to hate is potentially an offence.

Banbh

I think you can complain to An Post.
Sending unsolicited, anonymous material, bordering on the sinister, is grounds for investigation. I think there is a department within An Post that deals with this sort of thing. They may have already received some other samples and be able to set your mind at ease.

SpaceTime

As far as I am aware, you make a complaint to the Gardaí in the first instance and they'd follow up with An Post. Although, I don't think An Post would have much in the way of an ability to trace a letter.

The Gardaí could get finger prints or DNA from it though if it were a really serious threat.

What you posted up though doesn't look like a particularly threatening letter, just more like physical spam.
Although that being said, I haven't read it in detail as I don't really have time.

My advice would be keep it on file in case there's any reason to follow up in the future. However, I'd say it's just some unusual character thinking they're doing missionary work.

Could even be a chain letter scenario where someone's been told they have to write X of these or they will receive 'bad luck'.

Kidchameleon

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

No, your 'point' is that because you wouldn't be bothered by it, no-one else should be either.

Why would anybody be bothered by it though? Did the OP start a thread on the television forum complaining about the leaflet dropped in by UPC? Open up a phone book and you have hundreds of thousands of names and addresses, so the fact that this bit of spam was personally addressed to the OP is a moot point.