C25K

zsha

Hi, so I started this last year and damaged my knees come wk two:eek: Had to give it up and a few wks ago I started back, but decided to do it on grass field this time. Thankfully, Im still at it and just finished wk 3. But my gosh, I found wk 3 tough, I ended up doing it four days rather than just 3! Is this normal? Im not running at any particular speed but just found it tough....
What did you do to keep you at it. I downloaded running music last wkend and put it on to play today for the last jog part, and it was exactly what I needed to give me that last boost.....How often would you repeat a wk, if finding it tough? Any tips??

Alf Veedersane

First off, don't do it 4 days in the week. You're new to running so your body needs the recovery. If you're struggling to keep running as long as you need to be on any given day, you're probably just running too fast too soon. It's about building up how long you can run for. When you've built that up,then you can work on speed.

Repeat weeks if you need to, I definitely had to when I was starting
say it's fairly common
don't do 4 days, just repeat the week the next week.
slow down if you need to as well, doesn't matter if the power walkers overtake you

zsha

Thanks a mill, I think that's it, I think I could be running to quickly....glad to hear don't worry if the power walkers take over me:D I can slow it down a bit.
O I meant I did it four days over the two wks, I norm run on a tues and a sat, or some wks a tues, thurs and sat, def not going too hard on myself because of previous history with my knees, want take it really slowly. Thanks really helps me.

Cabaal

If you're unable to tallk when running, then you're running too fast. Thats a good base rule to go on starting off

Maximus Alexander

Slow down, keep at it. You will see improvement, and you will look back in a few weeks and wonder how you ever found week 3 tough, which will give you a huge sense of accomplishment.

Never worry about things like power walkers or other runners going past you, you're not doing it for them, it's for you. There will be plenty of time later for building your speed, right now you need to get your body used to running for extended periods.

Good luck and keep it up!

Mr. CooL ICE

I give this advice to everybody I know that is starting to run. I might sound insufferable, but it really made running much much easier for me.

Change the way you run. If your heel is hitting the ground first, then stop. Make sure that the ball of your foot hits the ground first on every stride, and that you push off with the ball of your foot. This requires much more work from your calf muscle than before and it will get tired in no time (not to mention painful the following days) but once your calf muscles gets stronger, this won't be a problem. By landing this way, your calf + achilles will be absorbing the majority of the impact instead of your shin and knee bones, which could help with your ongoing injuries. Aside from injuries, running this way makes it easier to control your pace and makes running at a lower speed easier.

Give it a try. You will curse me at first while you are crippled from painful calf muscles but if you keep it up, you will laugh at how easy 5k is.

The Diddakoi

Also make sure you have good running shoes, preferably get a foot analysis done (elverys or foot locker do them), don't just pick an expensive fashion pair.
As others have said, slow down, the speed comes later after you have built up endurance.
I repeated a couple of runs early on, found week 5 particularly daunting, but later on was less of a problem.
Good music is a must for me too.
Good luck

Alf Veedersane

LordChessington wrote: »

Make sure that the ball of your foot hits the ground first on every stride, and that you push off with the ball of your foot.

So land on the ball of your foot and push off from the ball of your foot?

I don't know if running solely on the balls of your feet is advocated hugely...I'm open to correct though.

I'd have thought landing mid-sole and rolling along the foot.

Edit: I think I see what you mean now?

I had a vision of a running event at the Ministry of Silly Walks.

zsha

Everybody thanks so much, this is great advice and I'm taking it all on board. I def cant talk when running so thats a good measure to go by.
I am running in old runners at the min as I said I'd start off in these on the soft ground as I'm hoping to wear these for hell & back and I'd be use to them, but maybe as you say, if I run in my proper runners, I suppose I could use the old ones on the day etc.
Thanks a million really appreciate it all and roll on week four now :D
You are all a great support

Mr. CooL ICE

Yeah, it sounds weird but you don't look much different if you run that way. Rolling on the foot is fine. It's the landing in this way to prevent the constant impact from hurting yourself further up the leg. Also, pushing off with the ball of your foot and using that as the primary way of propelling forward is much more energy efficient (IMO). The calf is a smaller muscle than the quad so once trained up, you use less energy to move the same distance.

Only anecdotal. Nothing scientific.

Alf Veedersane

LordChessington wrote: »

Yeah, it sounds weird but you don't look much different if you run that way. Rolling on the foot is fine. It's the landing in this way to prevent the constant impact from hurting yourself further up the leg. Also, pushing off with the ball of your foot and using that as the primary way of propelling forward is much more energy efficient (IMO). The calf is a smaller muscle than the quad so once trained up, you use less energy to move the same distance.

Only anecdotal. Nothing scientific.

Gotcha. Actually, the more I think of it, you're probably not far off what i'm thinking. It's not so much that you come up and down but move across the ground. If that makes sense.

It does to me, inallinanywayaz.

CassieManson

LordChessington wrote: »

I give this advice to everybody I know that is starting to run. I might sound insufferable, but it really made running much much easier for me.

Change the way you run. If your heel is hitting the ground first, then stop. Make sure that the ball of your foot hits the ground first on every stride, and that you push off with the ball of your foot. This requires much more work from your calf muscle than before and it will get tired in no time (not to mention painful the following days) but once your calf muscles gets stronger, this won't be a problem. By landing this way, your calf + achilles will be absorbing the majority of the impact instead of your shin and knee bones, which could help with your ongoing injuries. Aside from injuries, running this way makes it easier to control your pace and makes running at a lower speed easier.

Give it a try. You will curse me at first while you are crippled from painful calf muscles but if you keep it up, you will laugh at how easy 5k is.

I am confused by this... I recently started C25k and downloaded the UK health service podcasts. They recommend always landing heel first "to avoid injuries".

Alf Veedersane

CassieManson wrote: »

I am confused by this... I recently started C25k and downloaded the UK health service podcasts. They recommend always landing heel first "to avoid injuries".

The problem with heel striking is when it's combined with overstriding. If your stride length is right and you're foot is contacting the ground relatively close to you, then the part of the foot that is striking the ground first isn't hugely important.

zsha

Thanks all, starting my long runs the next day I go out. My first 20 min run! I have all of your advice going through my head when Im running. If I find it tough I tell myself to slow down slow down slow down:D Really helps so thanks very much.....

Wexy86

zsha wrote: »

Thanks all, starting my long runs the next day I go out. My first 20 min run!

Snap, my first run 20 min run will be done over the weekend, not sure if gonna be able to do it but I'll give it a shot and hope for the best!! :-)

zsha

Wexy86 wrote: »

Snap, my first run 20 min run will be done over the weekend, not sure if gonna be able to do it but I'll give it a shot and hope for the best!! :-)

Hey just did mine today, did it slowly and completed it, so proud of myself and what a feeling.....I could of jumped up and down with joy after completing it but thought the people around me might of thought I was very strange:D
Best of luck, if you believe you can do it

vixdname

The C25K really is a great program.

I for one, was never a long distance runner, I was always best in my younger days at 100 mtr - 200 mtr sprints.
I succeeded in winning county, provincial and all Ireland medals in these distances, but long distance endurance running.....nope

Roll on 25years and I'm in work one day when one of the girls tells me that shes heading out for a run after work.
She tells me all about and app she downloaded onto her mobile and how this tells her in her head phones what distance shes running, her current pace and all that stuff.

I, having been thinking for a while about getting into the running again more to keep fit rather then competitively now that I'm about to hit 40 decide to download the app and give it a go.

Like everyone else I've read about and their experiences with the C25K program was daunted at the idea of running for extended amounts of time and doubted that I would be ever able to run 5K without stopping.

Well anyway, to cut a long story short, I got to the 5K non stop running milestone on week 7 out of the 9 week program and have continued on my running journey since.

I'm now running 10 miles pretty easily with a little preparation and look back at how far I've come in such little time (5 mnths).

If I have any advise to any one thinking of starting the program it'd be:

A.\ Get a gait analysis done in a decent sports shop so as they will be able to advise you what kind of runner best suits your running style.
I went out running first with a pair of Asics runners that werent right for my running style and by jaysus did my left foot hurt for a few days after it.

B.\ Dont expect too much from yourself, take your time, you're not training for a race, you're training for yourself.

C.\ Concentrate on covering the distance, forget about your times, get up to the distance first and foremost and then, when your comfortable with that distance, work on your speed

D.\ If youre running alone, and most of you will starting off, use the "Talk Test" to see if you're running too fast for your ability.
If you can recite the alphabet to yourself without stopping and panting before carrying on to the next few letters youre doing ok, if on the other hand you cant say the alphabet out loud (not too loud or else passersby might think youre nuts!!!) without pausing for breath....sloooooooow down, youre going too fast for yourself.

E.\ Dont mind how or what others are doing, this is purely a personal program that you use to get to your goals, so what if someone else is progressing faster then you...chances are they'll injure themselves, put themselves out of the game for a few weeks and not be able to run at all, while you on the other hand will be making slow but very sure progress, relatively pain free.

F.\ Not to be Mammying ye too much but if you're not used to running on the road make sure and always be aware of cars coming and going, especially at junctions, its all to easy get into your stride and lost in the tunes.

G.\ Dont spend a fortune on running clothes. i buy most of my gear on Sportsdirect.com their Karrimor range of cloths are inexpensive and really good quality.

H.\ Most new C25K starters will start running in tracksuit bottoms, these are all fine and well until you start to run good distances.
When you get to the 5K, ditch the bottoms and put on the shorts, they make a huge difference to the freedom of leg movement and keeping cool.
Dont be paranoid if you have white untanned legs in your new shorts, give it a few weeks of training and you'll have and nice farmers tan on your legs !!!

Any ways, I hope ye find the above points useful, keep at it, you'll have good days and bad days when you'll ask yourself why the FCUK am I putting myself through this, but persevere, keep going and when youre finished, you'll be glad you did it.

By the way, the app I use is called "Rundouble", its available for both Android and iphones, heres the website for it where you can upload all of your runs and times etc and view them on a map http://www.rundouble.com

BEST OF LUCK ALL !!!!

fits

LordChessington wrote: »

Yeah, it sounds weird but you don't look much different if you run that way. Rolling on the foot is fine. It's the landing in this way to prevent the constant impact from hurting yourself further up the leg. Also, pushing off with the ball of your foot and using that as the primary way of propelling forward is much more energy efficient (IMO). The calf is a smaller muscle than the quad so once trained up, you use less energy to move the same distance.

Only anecdotal. Nothing scientific.

Just wanted to highlight the bit in bold. Would be very wary about giving advice like this to people. Landing and pushing off from ball of foot can cause major problems in some.

I have the chi running book. Its a bit new age for me but some useful ideas in it about running form.

CassieManson

vixdname wrote: »

The C25K really is a great program.

I for one, was never a long distance runner, I was always best in my younger days at 100 mtr - 200 mtr sprints.
I succeeded in winning county, provincial and all Ireland medals in these distances, but long distance endurance running.....nope

Roll on 25years and I'm in work one day when one of the girls tells me that shes heading out for a run after work.
She tells me all about and app she downloaded onto her mobile and how this tells her in her head phones what distance shes running, her current pace and all that stuff.

I, having been thinking for a while about getting into the running again more to keep fit rather then competitively now that I'm about to hit 40 decide to download the app and give it a go.

Like everyone else I've read about and their experiences with the C25K program was daunted at the idea of running for extended amounts of time and doubted that I would be ever able to run 5K without stopping.

Well anyway, to cut a long story short, I got to the 5K non stop running milestone on week 7 out of the 9 week program and have continued on my running journey since.

I'm now running 10 miles pretty easily with a little preparation and look back at how far I've come in such little time (5 mnths).

If I have any advise to any one thinking of starting the program it'd be:

A.\ Get a gait analysis done in a decent sports shop so as they will be able to advise you what kind of runner best suits your running style.
I went out running first with a pair of Asics runners that werent right for my running style and by jaysus did my left foot hurt for a few days after it.

B.\ Dont expect too much from yourself, take your time, you're not training for a race, you're training for yourself.

C.\ Concentrate on covering the distance, forget about your times, get up to the distance first and foremost and then, when your comfortable with that distance, work on your speed

D.\ If youre running alone, and most of you will starting off, use the "Talk Test" to see if you're running too fast for your ability.
If you can recite the alphabet to yourself without stopping and panting before carrying on to the next few letters youre doing ok, if on the other hand you cant say the alphabet out loud (not too loud or else passersby might think youre nuts!!!) without pausing for breath....sloooooooow down, youre going too fast for yourself.

E.\ Dont mind how or what others are doing, this is purely a personal program that you use to get to your goals, so what if someone else is progressing faster then you...chances are they'll injure themselves, put themselves out of the game for a few weeks and not be able to run at all, while you on the other hand will be making slow but very sure progress, relatively pain free.

F.\ Not to be Mammying ye too much but if you're not used to running on the road make sure and always be aware of cars coming and going, especially at junctions, its all to easy get into your stride and lost in the tunes.

G.\ Dont spend a fortune on running clothes. i buy most of my gear on Sportsdirect.com their Karrimor range of cloths are inexpensive and really good quality.

H.\ Most new C25K starters will start running in tracksuit bottoms, these are all fine and well until you start to run good distances.
When you get to the 5K, ditch the bottoms and put on the shorts, they make a huge difference to the freedom of leg movement and keeping cool.
Dont be paranoid if you have white untanned legs in your new shorts, give it a few weeks of training and you'll have and nice farmers tan on your legs !!!

Any ways, I hope ye find the above points useful, keep at it, you'll have good days and bad days when you'll ask yourself why the FCUK am I putting myself through this, but persevere, keep going and when youre finished, you'll be glad you did it.

By the way, the app I use is called "Rundouble", its available for both Android and iphones, heres the website for it where you can upload all of your runs and times etc and view them on a map http://www.rundouble.com

BEST OF LUCK ALL !!!!

Thanks for the information, thats great progress. I am hoping that your starting level of fitness was much better than mine. I am in week 7, running 25 minute sessions, covering just over 3km in 25 minutes so its pretty slow. I am using a podcast so can only base my sessions on times, not distance.

Also wondering about your thoughts on the stretching before/stretching after/not stretching at all? Is the 5 minute warm up walk before and after sufficient?

Alf Veedersane

Stretching is something that's caused a lot of debate but I would typically avoid static stretching, e.g. touching your toes etc. A bit of dynamic stretching during the walk to make sure your muscles are ok to move in the range they'll need to for the run will suffice.

If you feel a little tight after, then a bit of static stretching will help.

Other than that, you may not need to stretch much. The warm-up should get your muscles in order for a run.

No harm in working on flexibility/mobility separate to your run though.

zsha

Thanks a million for all the info. Its great to get it. I am very proud to say that last Sun week I ran my first 5k after 7 wks of c25k programme. I then ran my second 5k on Fri night just gone for Darkness into Light and I was so proud:D

However since the run on Fri night my ankles have been sore and my body tired. Having said that, I slept v little Fri night / Sat, so I'm really hoping that is half my problem.
I went to go for a run yesterday and physically just couldn't! My ankles were sore, legs tired and I ended up just walking the block rather than running it. I'm resting up now for the rest of the week, and hoping to start back next wk.

Is this normal after running, I know 5k isn't far for some but for me its a great achievement, so I'm just wondering is it just tiredness????

vixdname

CassieManson wrote: »

Thanks for the information, thats great progress. I am hoping that your starting level of fitness was much better than mine. I am in week 7, running 25 minute sessions, covering just over 3km in 25 minutes so its pretty slow. I am using a podcast so can only base my sessions on times, not distance.

Also wondering about your thoughts on the stretching before/stretching after/not stretching at all? Is the 5 minute warm up walk before and after sufficient?

To be honest, I've always done the 5 minute warm up, 5 minute cool down and then 3 X 30 sec stretches of both thigh and calf muscles.
i.e. stertch right thigh for 30 secs, then left thigh for 30 secs, then right calf for 30 secs then left calf for 30 secs and do that 3 times.

I really dont know if the stretches make a big difference to how my legs feel or recover after the run but yesterday, for examp,e, i went for a 6 mile run and just about had enough time to eat my dinner and shower before heading into work on the night shift and didnt get any stretches in at all and I really dont feel any the worse for it.

Now, I know theres website that advocate the necessity of stretching beforte and after runs but my personal experience is the 5 minute warm up \ cool down brisk walk seems to do just fine

vixdname

zsha wrote: »

Thanks a million for all the info. Its great to get it. I am very proud to say that last Sun week I ran my first 5k after 7 wks of c25k programme. I then ran my second 5k on Fri night just gone for Darkness into Light and I was so proud:D

However since the run on Fri night my ankles have been sore and my body tired. Having said that, I slept v little Fri night / Sat, so I'm really hoping that is half my problem.
I went to go for a run yesterday and physically just couldn't! My ankles were sore, legs tired and I ended up just walking the block rather than running it. I'm resting up now for the rest of the week, and hoping to start back next wk.

Is this normal after running, I know 5k isn't far for some but for me its a great achievement, so I'm just wondering is it just tiredness????

Dont underestimate what you've achieved by running your 1st 5Km , its a huge step for someone to achieve when theyre not long distance runners by trade as it were.

By the sounds of it you mayhave slightly jumped the gun a little bit by doing 2 X 5Km runs so close to each other, you may have felt great after your 1st 5Km run and felt invinsible but remember youre only running 7 short weeks in total.

It takes longer for most peoples joints,bones and ligaments to strengthen and get fit then it does for their leg muscles, heart and lungs to get fit, so sometimes you'll not be even out of breath when running but your legs may feel sore at the knees or ankles during \ after your run.

Its important to not run if your feeling properly sore in a joint or muscle, we all get little niggley pains and aches when running and 9 times outof 10 you can run them off but if you start getting bad pain its your body telling you to stop what youre doing now.

As annoying as it can be, especially when youve just hit your 5Km milestone, that your body is telling you to stop even when your mind is telling you to keep going, you have to listen to your body.
If you dont and keep on going by God you'll pay for it when you get home and may end up causing yourself an injuy.

I read somewhere once that most injuries happen to new runners within the first 3 months or so, usually around the time that they start getting more confident in their new found abilitys and go and take it too far, resulting in a painful injury that'll, if youre lucky will, stop you running for a few weeks and unlucky if it stops you for good.

I myself had wicked hassle with both of my knees after about week 3 into the C25k, and instead of stopping, I went running again and basically limped back to the car with both my knees killing me.
I stopped running for about 3 weeks and even after that had to wear a knee brace on my left knee for the next 3 weeks or so.
I also had to ice pack both knees for 15 mins each as soon as I got home and then rub in ETOFLAM anti-inflammatory gel to keep the inflamation down, thsi went on for a few weeks until finally the pain went and my knees had built up enough strength for me to run on the roads again without any problems.

If youre ankles are still sore, If I was you, I'd ice pack my ankles for 15 mins each, every 3 -4 hours, buy 2 of the ice packs out of the chemist so as youre not waiting for the 1st one to refreeze before using it on your 2nd ankle, wrap the frozen ice pack in a wet t towel, dont put it directly onto your skin as it may burn your skin and get a prescription for ETOFLAM gel and put plenty of it straight on to where the ankle is sorest after iceing it.
Do that for a few days and see how the ankles feel, if the pain is gone, try going for a short run, but if you get any twinges, STOP and wait another few days, continuing the ice packs and ETOFLAM treatment.

Have you had a proper gait analysis done to show how your hitting the ground as youre running ?
If not and youre wearing runners that arent 100% suitable for your running gait, now that youre covering nice distances, you may well be getting sore ankles from that also.

Let me know how you get on !!!

zsha

Vixdname that's all great info thanks a million, really appreciate it. I love the fact that I am running and covering the distances now.
Tbh I had a gait analysis done ages ago and I had proper asic running runners that is suitable for my feet. However they didn't feel all that comfy to me so after running a little at the start I got a pair of running runners in lidl and I couldn't get over how comfy they were, how light they were and how I was so happy with them. They have been what I've been wearing since and what I have being doing so well in. But maybe the fact I am running the distance now I need to rethink that. Might go get another gait analysis done tomorrow and see what they say.

I did damage to my knees when I started running before last year so I def listen to my body now, like you I limped back with sore knees, only I ended up not been able to walk for a day or so:eek: So def cant take the chance of getting injured like that again.
We're doing Hell & Back in June and that really is what spurred me on to try the c25k again and I have to say I'm delighted I did as I'm really enjoying all this.

Thanks for all your info and help it's really great and I'm learning alot from this thread

vixdname

zsha wrote: »

Vixdname that's all great info thanks a million, really appreciate it. I love the fact that I am running and covering the distances now.
Tbh I had a gait analysis done ages ago and I had proper asic running runners that is suitable for my feet. However they didn't feel all that comfy to me so after running a little at the start I got a pair of running runners in lidl and I couldn't get over how comfy they were, how light they were and how I was so happy with them. They have been what I've been wearing since and what I have being doing so well in. But maybe the fact I am running the distance now I need to rethink that. Might go get another gait analysis done tomorrow and see what they say.

I did damage to my knees when I started running before last year so I def listen to my body now, like you I limped back with sore knees, only I ended up not been able to walk for a day or so:eek: So def cant take the chance of getting injured like that again.
We're doing Hell & Back in June and that really is what spurred me on to try the c25k again and I have to say I'm delighted I did as I'm really enjoying all this.

Thanks for all your info and help it's really great and I'm learning alot from this thread

I'd deffo get another gait analysis done, proper fitting runners for your gait should definitely be more comfortable then generic ones from Lidl or Aldi.
The ones in Lidl or Aldi may be lighter on the feet but wont give the required support a properly fitted running shoe of a decent brand would, like Asics especially after a trained person does the gait analysis and recommends X Y or Z runners for you.

The fact that both your ankles are sore aswell is indicative that its your overall foot strike on both legs thats probably the culprit, and proper runners should alleviate that problem.
Get another gait analysis done, preferably by someone different from the 1st place you got it done, bring the runners you were recommended and see if their opinions differ.
If still sore, rest up, ice and anti inflam gel and use your proper runners when you get back on the road.
I'd reckon you'll be fine in no time !!!

Let me know how you get on with everything

zsha

So got another analysis done this morn, it was a different person that did it. She told me the runners I had were very very supportive, so she did the analysis and turns out I can actually go for a neutral runner and don't need that much support, if I want I can go for one with the bare minimum support as just one of my legs are going in when bending, barely.

So my question is, if I can go for a neutral runner does that mean all normal running runners should be fine for me??? I didn't have a lot of time so I'll head back in over the weekend to have a look properly at the runners, but was just asking myself that when I left?