Insurance for a 17 year old on fathers name getting quoted at 4,000€?

Frolt

Okay so I'm trying to get my dad to open up a policy under his name and have me insured as second driver. I've asked my friends how much are they getting quoted and most of them get it between 1,000€ and 2,000€ however I'm being quoted 4,200€ by FBD and 4,500€ by Axa on my dads name. The car I'm trying to insure is a 1.4 Volkswagen Bora. I don't understand why it's amounting to that much? I'm from Lithuania, could it be discrimination?

I'm 17 and I have a provisional license. My father has a full Lithuanian license. We've been here 13 years.

Sobanek

Frolt wrote: »

Okay so I'm trying to get my dad to open up a policy under his name and have me insured as second driver. I've asked my friends how much are they getting quoted and most of them get it between 1,000€ and 2,000€ however I'm being quoted 4,200€ by FBD and 4,500€ by Axa on my dads name. The car I'm trying to insure is a 1.4 Volkswagen Bora. I don't understand why it's amounting to that much? I'm from Lithuania, could it be discrimination?

1.4 Bora is ridiculous to insure! Try a 1.9 TDI perhaps?

corkgsxr

Being a foreign driver is a mark against you. Still seems very high.

Sobanek

Oh, it's your dad's car.

Try your own policy then? You're only 17, don't expect anything better than a 1.25 Fiesta at this stage tbh.

ironclaw

VAG Diesels are attracting a big premium at the moment. Silly but true.

If they are online quotes, ignore them. They will (should) be far low if you ring direct. Just so you know, your Dad would have to be the registered owner of the car. So if its not his daily driver (i.e. Its your car, he's just on the paperwork), he'll have two policy's to his name. This can affect his no claims if you have an accident. You'd want to be careful and read the T&C's carefully.

And yes, you will have a bigger premium having a foreign license. Its not discrimination, its part of the risk calculation i.e. Your used to driving on the other side of the road, driving standard mismatch etc. Nonsense I know, but its legal apparently.

Also, I presume your on a full license?

lau1247

If you don't have full licence, one of the best way is to get a good few lessons and apply for test right away. Once you pass it should come down a good bit.

Where about do you live? I understand location can affect it too.

Frolt

Sobanek wrote: »

Oh, it's your dad's car.

Try your own policy then? You're only 17, don't expect anything better than a 1.25 Fiesta at this stage tbh.

Yeah I won't be driving it much and I wouldn't mind paying 1-2k€ on it but like 4,200€ just doesn't seem right.

Sobanek

Frolt wrote: »

Yeah I won't be driving it much and I wouldn't mind paying 1-2k€ on it but like 4,200€ just doesn't seem right.

€1,950 to insure a 1.4 Bora on my own name.

I pay €1,470 for a 2.2 320Ci M-Sport.

Like I said - they're ridiculous to insure.

I'm 20 and have 2 years of Named Driver Experience.

GvidoR

I found that 1.6 Bora was cheap to insure.

It was cheaper for me to insure than 1.3 Colt, 1.4 Astra and 1.7 diesel E36.

Foxhole Norman

You're going to find it hard to get quoted on most VW's, Audi's and SEAT's due to the current crowd that are driving them. I'm getting quoted on 2.2's and up at reasonable price but once I tried a 1.8T Audi A4 they wouldn't quote me.

Moneymaker

Don't the likes of the Passat, Bora etc have massive average insurance premiums at the moment?

You're best off steering clear of them. Pick up a Fiesta/Yaris/Clio and get your own premium would be my advice.

MadsL

Frolt wrote: »

I'm from Lithuania, could it be discrimination?

I'm 17 and I have a provisional license. My father has a full Lithuanian license. We've been here 13 years.

Have a read of this thread. Are you being asked any questions as to your residency or nationality?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056989463

Also your father should get an Irish licence really under Irish law. His insurance rates should drop.

bazz26

Insurance companies seem to have the hump for VAG stuff alright but not surprising seeing as they are so popular with the 17 to 21 year olds. Was looking at a 330d a few weeks ago and asked my insurance company how much it would increase by from my current Passat CC - €25 to go from 140bhp to 250bhp.

jd6920s

Best thing to do would be for your father to take out the policy and then a few months later get your father to add you on , it should be far cheaper.
I know of several 17/18 year olds on VAG 1.9tdi cars so don't see that as a major issue.

ProudDUB

MadsL wrote: »

Have a read of this thread. Are you being asked any questions as to your residency or nationality?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056989463

Also your father should get an Irish licence really under Irish law. His insurance rates should drop.

Yes, he really should.

OP, holders of foreign licenses are only allowed drive in Ireland for a year on a foreign license. Then it becomes invalid. Your dad should have gotten his Irish license 12 years ago. If he gets pulled over, he risks a ticket, a fine and having the car seized due to his not having a valid license. Just because the license is valid for driving in Lithuania, it is not valid for driving on Irish roads, once the holder of it has been a resident here for more than 12 months.

He may have evaded being caught for years, but the Guards are really starting to crack down on this sort of thing, as people are using their foreign license to evade getting penalty points on an Irish one. That is definitely one of the reasons why your insurance quote is so high.

MadsL

ProudDUB wrote: »

That is definitely one of the reasons why your insurance quote is so high.

Maybe one day the EU will allow the Irish to purchase insurance FROM Lithuania.

GvidoR

MadsL wrote: »

Maybe one day the EU will allow the Irish to purchase insurance FROM Lithuania.

That'd be great, it would be extremely cheap compared to the prices here.

djimi

GvidoR wrote: »

That'd be great, it would be extremely cheap compared to the prices here.

Would it? How many insurers are going to want to get involved in selling insurance in a region where they are not familiar with the risks? Nice idea in theory, but I can see it being difficult to work.

ProudDUB

MadsL wrote: »

Maybe one day the EU will allow the Irish to purchase insurance FROM Lithuania.

Best of luck to you if are in an accident here & you trying to make a claim with an insurance company in Lithuania. That will be great craic altogether if you aren't from there, you have no idea how their insurance system works & oh yeah....you don't speak Lithuanian. :P

GvidoR

djimi wrote: »

Would it? How many insurers are going to want to get involved in selling insurance in a region where they are not familiar with the risks? Nice idea in theory, but I can see it being difficult to work.

True, I'd say there's a very slim chance that will ever be allowed too.

kfdb

ProudDUB wrote: »

OP, holders of foreign licenses are only allowed drive in Ireland for a year on a foreign license. Then it becomes invalid. Your dad should have gotten his Irish license 12 years ago. If he gets pulled over, he risks a ticket, a fine and having the car seized due to his not having a valid license. Just because the license is valid for driving in Lithuania, it is not valid for driving on Irish roads, once the holder of it has been a resident here for more than 12 months.

From here

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driver_licensing/exchanging_foreign_driving_permit.html
>>
Holders of licences issued by an EU member state
If you have a driving licence issued by an EU member state you can drive in Ireland as long as your existing licence is valid. If you wish to exchange your driving licence for an equivalent Irish driving licence, you must do so within 10 years of your driving licence expiring.
>>

You could certainly argue that living long term in another EU state means you should transfer but you do not have to.

Sam Kade

lau1247 wrote: »

If you don't have full licence, one of the best way is to get a good few lessons and apply for test right away. Once you pass it should come down a good bit.

Where about do you live? I understand location can affect it too.

Won't they need insurance for driving between lessons? You can't just do 12 lessons and pass your test first go without plenty practice as well.

djimi

Sam Kade wrote: »

Won't they need insurance for driving between lessons? You can't just do 12 lessons and pass your test first go without plenty practice as well.

I did :cool:

Okay, I had some practice, but very little in reality. I spent most of the time I was learning to drive living away from home for college with no car, and I worked most weekends a the time. If you can drive to a decent standard starting out (ie youre not spending your first three lessons learning how not to stall the car when you let off the clutch) then Id say its perfectly possible to pass the test with just lessons alone.

ProudDUB

I stand corrected. The one year thingy applies to holders of DL's from non EU states.

Still think his not having an Irish DL is affecting the quote though. The holder of a foreign license is deemed to be a greater risk. The holder of an Irish DL can be put off the roads once they accumulate 12 penalty points. The holder of a foreign one could be speeding all over the place and doing God knows what, but he won't ever get points for any of it, as the powers that be can't keep track of a foreign license & put points on to it.

MCD.

Does you father have a No Claims Bonus which he has earned over the course of 3-5 years?

If so what vehicle was this bonus earned on?

Where has it suddenly dissapeared to now that you have turned 17?

If you are being completely up front and stating that its your fathers car (ie the main user) and you are genuinely a second/named driver then presumably he hasnt been driving up to this point as the car has just been purchased and has no ncb.

In reality the insurance company aren't buying the story and quoting based on the most rateable driver. It has very little to do with nationality (although the Lithuanian licence is probably impacting it slightly) and more to do with your age, experience and the vehicle.

CiniO

MadsL wrote: »

Also your father should get an Irish licence really under Irish law. His insurance rates should drop.

ProudDUB wrote: »

Yes, he really should.

OP, holders of foreign licenses are only allowed drive in Ireland for a year on a foreign license. Then it becomes invalid. Your dad should have gotten his Irish license 12 years ago. If he gets pulled over, he risks a ticket, a fine and having the car seized due to his not having a valid license. Just because the license is valid for driving in Lithuania, it is not valid for driving on Irish roads, once the holder of it has been a resident here for more than 12 months.

He may have evaded being caught for years, but the Guards are really starting to crack down on this sort of thing, as people are using their foreign license to evade getting penalty points on an Irish one. That is definitely one of the reasons why your insurance quote is so high.

There is no time limits you can use licence issued in another EU member state.
He is allowed to use his Lithuanian licence as long as it's valid.
However indeed some insurers don't issue "no penalty points" discounts to policies for drivers with foreign licence, as their penalty points can not be tracked.

CiniO

Sam Kade wrote: »

Won't they need insurance for driving between lessons? You can't just do 12 lessons and pass your test first go without plenty practice as well.

That's what people do in most countries.
Learning is only during lessons with instructor, and then you need to pass the test. Only once you pass it, you are allowed on the road (without instructor). Makes sense really...
However amount of lessons required is usually higher.

I had to do 20 lessons in Poland before I went for driving test. Now I think it's even 30h lessons required.
But before I passed my test, I wasn't allowed on the road without my instructor.

MadsL

ProudDUB wrote: »

Best of luck to you if are in an accident here & you trying to make a claim with an insurance company in Lithuania. That will be great craic altogether if you aren't from there, you have no idea how their insurance system works & oh yeah....you don't speak Lithuanian. :P

If they are doing business in a market chances are you don't have to speak the language other than that market's language. I don't recall having to speak German to get insured with Allianz.

lau1247

Sam Kade wrote: »

Won't they need insurance for driving between lessons? You can't just do 12 lessons and pass your test first go without plenty practice as well.

The driving instructor would have insurance cover, hence the lesson.

Well, I certainly did it back in 2008, took about 16 lessons IIRC, pass on the first go (I was passionate about driving and know the ins and out of it), so it is possible depending on your skill level

djimi

MadsL wrote: »

If they are doing business in a market chances are you don't have to speak the language other than that market's language. I don't recall having to speak German to get insured with Allianz.

Bit of a difference between dealing with a German insurer based in Ireland and a Lithuanian insurer based in Lithuania in fairness. If you are talking about availing of EU wide insurance then chances are you will be dealing with the insurer in their own country, not from an office in Ireland.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

That's what people do in most countries.
Learning is only during lessons with instructor, and then you need to pass the test. Only once you pass it, you are allowed on the road (without instructor). Makes sense really...
However amount of lessons required is usually higher.

I had to do 20 lessons in Poland before I went for driving test. Now I think it's even 30h lessons required.
But before I passed my test, I wasn't allowed on the road without my instructor.

This is the system that we need to have over here also. The idea that you can pass a multiple choice exam and be basically free to drive however you please is utter nonsense.

corktina

lau1247 wrote: »

The driving instructor would have insurance cover, hence the lesson.

Well, I certainly did it back in 2008, took about 16 lessons IIRC, pass on the first go (I was passionate about driving and know the ins and out of it), so it is possible depending on your skill level

Me too, I never drove any car except the driving schools before I passed

Sam Kade

djimi wrote: »

I did :cool:

Okay, I had some practice, but very little in reality. I spent most of the time I was learning to drive living away from home for college with no car, and I worked most weekends a the time. If you can drive to a decent standard starting out (ie youre not spending your first three lessons learning how not to stall the car when you let off the clutch) then Id say its perfectly possible to pass the test with just lessons alone.

You had some practice were you insured while practicing? There's a big difference between driving a car in a field to driving in heavy traffic.

lau1247 wrote: »

The driving instructor would have insurance cover, hence the lesson.

Well, I certainly did it back in 2008, took about 16 lessons IIRC, pass on the first go (I was passionate about driving and know the ins and out of it), so it is possible depending on your skill level

Of course the instructors car covered I never said it wasn't. What age were you when you passed and how long were you driving?

djimi

Sam Kade wrote: »

You had some practice were you insured while practicing? There's a big difference between driving a car in a field to driving in heavy traffic.

Id say the number of lessons I had combined with the amount of time I spent practicing on the road amounted to little more than the mandatory 12 lessons that people need to do nowadays.

I actually believe that it can be better to drive less before you take the test. The Irish driving test is not hard, and if someone has a reasonable grasp of car control (ie can make the car move without stalling) before taking lessons and they are confident about what they are doing, then I believe it can be better to go into the test on the back of 12 solid instructed hours of driving under your belt, and the "proper" way of doing things fresh in your mind.

corktina

djimi wrote: »

Id say the number of lessons I had combined with the amount of time I spent practicing on the road amounted to little more than the mandatory 12 lessons that people need to do nowadays.

I actually believe that it can be better to drive less before you take the test. The Irish driving test is not hard, and if someone has a reasonable grasp of car control (ie can make the car move without stalling) before taking lessons and they are confident about what they are doing, then I believe it can be better to go into the test on the back of 12 solid instructed hours of driving under your belt, and the "proper" way of doing things fresh in your mind.

and before you pick up bad habits

H3llR4iser

djimi wrote: »

This is the system that we need to have over here also. The idea that you can pass a multiple choice exam and be basically free to drive however you please is utter nonsense.

And yet, they apply higher premiums to holders of foreign licenses - who had to actually pass proper tests...

CiniO

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And yet, they apply higher premiums to holders of foreign licenses - who had to actually pass proper tests...

My experience with it was, that most insurers didn't.
Those who did (apply higher premium to holders of foreign licences) did it because of penalty point which can not be accumulated on foreign licence, so effectively they couldn't give discount for no penalty points.

That was the case with me anyway - I got cheapest quote from aviva (hibernian then), and it came even cheaper after I swapped licence for Irish (because of penalty points).
But many insurers offered the same premium, no matter if I had Irish licence or foreign.

CiniO

Sam Kade wrote: »

Exactly the right way to do it but you need plenty practice between lessons and you are still learning even after passing the test. My son passed his test at 17 last year 9 weeks after his first lesson but he did lots of practice driving between lessons.

You should be learning to drive (improve your skills) all your life.

But IMO no one should be allowed on the road without instructor (in dual control car) before passing the driving test.

Sam Kade

djimi wrote: »

Id say the number of lessons I had combined with the amount of time I spent practicing on the road amounted to little more than the mandatory 12 lessons that people need to do nowadays.

I actually believe that it can be better to drive less before you take the test. The Irish driving test is not hard, and if someone has a reasonable grasp of car control (ie can make the car move without stalling) before taking lessons and they are confident about what they are doing, then I believe it can be better to go into the test on the back of 12 solid instructed hours of driving under your belt, and the "proper" way of doing things fresh in your mind.

You'd say you only had 12 hours driving experience before your driving test You don't do 12 lessons in 12 days, you do them once or twice a week even the instructor will tell you to practice what you have learned between lessons. My son passed his test 9 weeks after first going on the road last year when he was 17. He had plenty practice between lessons.

djimi

Sam Kade wrote: »

You'd say you only had 12 hours driving experience before your driving test You don't do 12 lessons in 12 days, you do them once or twice a week even the instructor will tell you to practice what you have learned between lessons. My son passed his test 9 weeks after first going on the road last year when he was 17. He had plenty practice between lessons.

I had very little practice between lessons as I was in college during the week with no car, so was doing a lesson at the weekends when I wasnt working.

Tbh, I could operate a car before I took lessons (in so far as I knew how to operate a clutch and a gearbox), so my 12 hourly lessons were mostly about getting used to driving on public roads and getting experience of driving, but my original point was that it is perfectly possible to pass the driving test with just driving schools lessons, if you are not a total novice and have some level of confidence about you. The Irish driving test is about as easy as they could possibly make it; if you can operate a car, are comfortable driving in traffic, can pull off a hill start, three point turn and reverse around a corner then youre laughing. For a lot of people that can be done in 12 hourly lessons.

corktina

Sam Kade wrote: »

You'd say you only had 12 hours driving experience before your driving test You don't do 12 lessons in 12 days, you do them once or twice a week even the instructor will tell you to practice what you have learned between lessons. My son passed his test 9 weeks after first going on the road last year when he was 17. He had plenty practice between lessons.

I had no practise between lessons. Better to be under the eagle eye of the Instructor. He told me that as a rule of thumb you need one lesson for each year of your age

djimi

corktina wrote: »

I had no practise between lessons. Better to be under the eagle eye of the Instructor. He told me that as a rule of thumb you need one lesson for each year of your age

Id hate to be a 40 year old learning to drive so :pac:

corktina

I'd bloody love to be 40 yr old :-(

H3llR4iser

CiniO wrote: »

My experience with it was, that most insurers didn't.
Those who did (apply higher premium to holders of foreign licences) did it because of penalty point which can not be accumulated on foreign licence, so effectively they couldn't give discount for no penalty points.

That was the case with me anyway - I got cheapest quote from aviva (hibernian then), and it came even cheaper after I swapped licence for Irish (because of penalty points).
But many insurers offered the same premium, no matter if I had Irish licence or foreign.

Lucky you my man; From what I can tell, insurance companies have been trying to recover the business they might have lost through the gender rates equality regulation by shafting foreign license holders - in my case, all the companies I got quotes with really only started applying the increased premium after the 1st of January 2013.

In the end I switched to AA, which only applied a ~100 euro "penalty" compared to an Irish license holder of the same age and NCB; Most companies gave me the same quote they give Learner Permit holders, which really reveals it's not just about "not being able to check the penalty points".

Certainly one can always exchange documents, but with a very clear law that allows the use of EU licenses until their natural expiration date, people should not be forced to do the swap by insurance companies...

MadsL

H3llR4iser wrote: »

a very clear law that allows the use of EU licenses until their natural expiration date, people should not be forced to do the swap by insurance companies...

Huh? Could you quote such a law or link to it?

CiniO

Sam Kade wrote: »

You'd say you only had 12 hours driving experience before your driving test You don't do 12 lessons in 12 days, you do them once or twice a week even the instructor will tell you to practice what you have learned between lessons. My son passed his test 9 weeks after first going on the road last year when he was 17. He had plenty practice between lessons.

That's why assuming it would be not allowed to practice on your own (without instructor) 12 lessons is bit too little.
In most countries this is between 20 - 40 hours with instructor before sitting driving test.

CiniO

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Lucky you my man; From what I can tell, insurance companies have been trying to recover the business they might have lost through the gender rates equality regulation by shafting foreign license holders - in my case, all the companies I got quotes with really only started applying the increased premium after the 1st of January 2013.

In the end I switched to AA, which only applied a ~100 euro "penalty" compared to an Irish license holder of the same age and NCB; Most companies gave me the same quote they give Learner Permit holders, which really reveals it's not just about "not being able to check the penalty points".

Certainly one can always exchange documents, but with a very clear law that allows the use of EU licenses until their natural expiration date, people should not be forced to do the swap by insurance companies...

But for someone living here anyway, exchanging licence to Irish is actually quite handy.
I did it straight away after I could get extra discount with hibernian for no penalty points.

Frolt

I'm going to be 18 and have a full license soon enough and I was just wondering would I be able to get insured in a passat cc, perhaps a 2010 one cheap enough if I was to buy one? I know I should probably ring a few insurance companies but it's 4 in the morning now. Also would the cheaper option always be insured under the mothers or fathers name?

yawhat!

there is online quotes ya can check

dar83

Another Frolt trolling thread. Give it a rest dude they're getting more obvious each time.

colm_mcm

Threads merged