Stopping on a roundabout

Kevwoody

Earlier today in town, going around a roundabout to take 3rd exit, now it's a small enough roundabout with poor vision due to trees planted on it, came to exit and a jeep in front of me stopped suddenly to let people cross from the footpath to the splitter island.

I just about got stopped behind him and in my side mirror saw a car exit from the 2nd exit and nearly run into the side of me!

I threw my hands up to say wtf? He then put his jeep in reverse to try intimidate me, and started mouthing off out his back window!

So my question is, should he have stopped where he did? And if I ran into him would I automatically be to blame?

Synyster Shadow

I would say no in a driving test they drill it into you to keep the flow of traffic moving. I've had something similar happen just yesterday and I can feel your frustration

desbrook

Synyster Shadow wrote: »

I would say no in a driving test they drill it into you to keep the flow of traffic moving. I've had something similar happen just yesterday and I can feel your frustration

Have seen zebra crossings yards from roundabouts. They mean stopping in a roundabout is inevitable. Madness and dangerous!

Synyster Shadow

Yeah westmeath is famous for that and I never understood it. But if there's no crossing I don't think there ment to stop on a roundabout

scottp68877

You'll always have idiots and especially on roundabouts m. The other day when I was on the roundabout the person in front of me actually stopped to leave cars go.

beauf

Had the same before, someone in front stopped suddenly on leaving a roundabout to wave someone across, I wasn't expecting it and only saw it last minute as I was looking for traffic coming from my right. I'd have assumed would be my fault if I'd gone into the back of them. Again peak traffic and there's manned Zebra crossings not 50m away in both directions.

SamAK

I still can't fathom who thought it would be a good idea to have pedestrian crossings positioned ON roundabout exits.

I've seen traffic backed up and the roundabout blocked so many times....happens all over the country.

corktina

no and yes....

bazz26

Could have been worse, imagine stopping in this one.

corktina

the Scilly Isles? Surrey somewhere I think. A large proportion of Irish drivers would lose their lives trying to get off it

Doom

I seen a person stop on a dual carriageway to let a car out....Driving in Ireland is like Russian roulette with cars

cabledude

bazz26 wrote: »

Could have been worse, imagine stopping in this one.

Erm, right. Ok. WTF????

Owryan

At times it feels like every roundabout in Carlow town has at least pedestrian crossings attached to it. Bloody ridiculous

slimjimmc

Kevwoody wrote: »

Earlier today in town, going around a roundabout to take 3rd exit, now it's a small enough roundabout with poor vision due to trees planted on it, came to exit and a jeep in front of me stopped suddenly to let people cross from the footpath to the splitter island.

I just about got stopped behind him and in my side mirror saw a car exit from the 2nd exit and nearly run into the side of me!

I threw my hands up to say wtf? He then put his jeep in reverse to try intimidate me, and started mouthing off out his back window!

So my question is, should he have stopped where he did?

Depends, if the pedestrians had already stepped out or he felt they would then he had to yield to them.

Kevwoody wrote: »

And if I ran into him would I automatically be to blame?

Most likely, since (as you said yourself) "it's a small enough roundabout with poor vision due to trees planted on it" which means you need to drive appropriately.

slimjimmc

Owryan wrote: »

At times it feels like every roundabout in Carlow town has at least pedestrian crossings attached to it. Bloody ridiculous

A great many if not most of them actually do.

redarmy1929

You could be worse

scudzilla

desbrook wrote: »

Have seen zebra crossings yards from roundabouts. They mean stopping in a roundabout is inevitable. Madness and dangerous!

There's one on the roundabout in Artane, on the Malahide Road, just 10 yards from the roundabout and such a busy road, pure madness

Unknown Soldier

bazz26 wrote: »

Could have been worse, imagine stopping in this one.

I came across one of those in Hemel Hempstead many years ago. Much large though with a huge centre.

The first time it was about 4am in the morning and I just drove in a straight line, more or less, to my exit. Hadn't a clue what was going on.

Easy enough to navigate when you know it's there.

Marcusm

bazz26 wrote: »

Could have been worse, imagine stopping in this one.

You have to stop on that one all the time, it's part of the design; it's an hilarious set up to arrive at unbeknownst. The original roundabout is in Hemel, the important thing to remember is that it's not one roundabout, it's 6 of them together meaning that you almost always end up travelling right/counterclockwise at some point.

klairondavis

There is one in Hemel, one in Colchester and another can be found in Swindon:

Voodoomelon

Had a driver in front of me stop on a roundabout to let her son out at the gym. Unreal.

ardmacha

Pedestrians have the right of way when proceeding across any road with a yield, unless the junction is signalised, which pretty much describes a roundabout. The OP should be paying better attention to his driving and stop "throwing up his hands" at other law abiding observant motorists.

DuckSlice

The picture is of the one in Swindon. I've been around it in the passenger seat and didn't know what the feic was going on.

Isn't there some rule, if a pedestrian has started crossing the road they have the right of way. I'm not sure though.

JohnBoy26

bazz26 wrote: »

Could have been worse, imagine stopping in this one.

Kevwoody

ardmacha wrote: »

Pedestrians have the right of way when proceeding across any road with a yield, unless the junction is signalised, which pretty much describes a roundabout. The OP should be paying better attention to his driving and stop "throwing up his hands" at other law abiding observant motorists.

He was exiting the roundabout not entering it!

Any roundabout I've used usually have the yield sign on the approach to the roundabout.

And if I wasn't paying attention I would have hit him

markpb

Where do people think pedestrians should cross a roundabout?

No Pants

Stupid crap happens on roundabouts all the time. Be prepared for it.

djimi

markpb wrote: »

Where do people think pedestrians should cross a roundabout?

Far enough back from it that it doesnt cause cars to have to stop on the roundabout.

ironclaw

markpb wrote: »

Where do people think pedestrians should cross a roundabout?

Was thinking through all the roundabouts in my area and nearly all of them have pedestrian crossings at the 'stop' line into the roundabout. Granted its easier to stop before entering a roundabout but there is no way of knowing (as you often can't see your exit) before you enter if you are going to have to stop. Never happened to me but i can easily see a pedestrian walk out on a roundabout and you have no option but to stop.

I don't see the problem in that circumstance Its not poor driving, its accident avoidance.

markpb

djimi wrote: »

Far enough back from it that it doesnt cause cars to have to stop on the roundabout.

So pedestrians should be inconvenienced by having to walk out of their way to avoid causing a motorist (who should already be travelling slowly) from having to stop briefly? Perhaps all roundabouts should be replaced with traffic lights so motorists are forced to stop while pedestrians cross?

djimi

markpb wrote: »

So pedestrians should be inconvenienced by having to walk out of their way to avoid causing a motorist (who should already be travelling slowly) from having to stop briefly? Perhaps all roundabouts should be replaced with traffic lights so motorists are forced to stop while pedestrians cross?

My issue is more to do with having pedestrian lights at roundabouts; something that I experience first hand every day and imo is genuinely dangerous as it means cars are not stopping briefly but for long enough time as to have them back up around the roundabout.

But yes, I do believe that pedestrians should not be crossing at a roundabout exit. I dont care if it inconveniences pedestrians to walk a few meters away from the roundabout exit; its preferable to having cars stopping on the roundabout.

beauf

markpb wrote: »

So pedestrians should be inconvenienced by having to walk out of their way to avoid causing a motorist (who should already be travelling slowly) from having to stop briefly? Perhaps all roundabouts should be replaced with traffic lights so motorists are forced to stop while pedestrians cross?

They'll be inconvenienced a lot more if they get knocked down.

A roundabout can be a busy complex junction. Common sense would suggest putting pedestrians right at the critical point is not a good idea.

Pedestrian crossing
Crosswalks at each entry/exit may be located at least one full car length outside the circle. The extra space allows an exiting vehicle to stop for a pedestrian without obstructing through traffic.

Roundabouts are not as cheap as they look. Some cost over $2m to build. But they are less expensive to run than traffic lights, which can cost $100,000 a year to power and maintain. They cut congestion because they do not require drivers to stop completely—that makes them greener, too. Their biggest benefit is safety. American authorities say swapping crossroads for roundabouts cuts deaths by 90% and crashes by a third......Nor are the safety benefits shared with all road users. Researchers at Hasselt University in Belgium say that cyclists are 41% more likely to die at a roundabout than at a crossroads.

A 1992 study [33] found that the risk to bicyclists is high in all such intersections, but much higher when the junction has a marked bicycle lane or sidepath around its perimeter

Iwannahurl

djimi wrote: »

But yes, I do believe that pedestrians should not be crossing at a roundabout exit. I dont care if it inconveniences pedestrians to walk a few meters away from the roundabout exit; its preferable to having cars stopping on the roundabout.

Pedestrians should be crossing where it is most convenient for pedestrians.

There is no good reason, in urban and residential areas where people are regularly walking, to divert pedestrians away from the most direct route in order to prioritise traffic flow.

Having pedestrian-priority crossings on roundabouts is normal in many parts of Europe. Motorists are required to yield to pedestrians and cyclists when entering and exiting the roundabout.

Get used to it, because it's on the way here too. Where roundabouts are not modified they will be replaced by signals. There will be much moaning, foot-dragging and prevarication for many years yet, but awareness is slowly starting to dawn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VapKuLqJ9M

beauf

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Pedestrians should be crossing where it is most convenient for pedestrians.

There is no good reason, in urban and residential areas where people are regularly walking, to divert pedestrians away from the most direct route in order to prioritise traffic flow....

There is if its more dangerous.

We've lazily copied old outdated cycle lane design which is known to be flawed.
Just because its popular in Europe doesn't always mean it isn't outdated.

Iwannahurl

Irish roads engineers have not copied European best practice. They have bowdlerised it.

There are also serious deficiencies in Irish legislation that routinely makes things worse for pedestrians and cyclists.

beauf

Even looking it up I'm not sure "bowdlerised" is the right word. But I know what you mean.

Cantona's Collars

Had an incident a couple of years ago on the roundabout outside Lidl/Aldi in Enniscorthy,a woman on a Honda 70 stopped on the roundabout.They have since lowered the height of the roundabout as there was a massive blind spot.I confronted the woman as she parked outside the store & asked her why she stopped,her answer was "to let a car out",she had the right of way,had I been going any faster than a crawl.I'd have ploughed her out of it as I couldn't see her until I was literally a couple of feet away.

Enniscorthy also has pedestrian crossings at the roundabout in Abbey Square which means having to stop on it.At least there,the crossings are the lesser of 2 evils as before pedestrians used to literally step out into the traffic or use the roundabout as a shortcut to get from the Credit Union to the Bank or Post Office.

Iwannahurl

zerks wrote: »

Enniscorthy also has pedestrian crossings at the roundabout in Abbey Square which means having to stop on it.At least there,the crossings are the lesser of 2 evils as before pedestrians used to literally step out into the traffic or use the roundabout as a shortcut to get from the Credit Union to the Bank or Post Office.

Where exactly is there "evil" in pedestrians wishing to cross a road in order to go about their business?

beauf

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Where exactly is there "evil" in pedestrians wishing to cross a road in order to go about their business?

Are you in favour in reckless pedestrian crossing of a roadway?

Iwannahurl

beauf wrote: »

Even looking it up I'm not sure "bowdlerised" is the right word. But I know what you mean.

Bowdlerise means to remove material that is considered offensive or objectionable.

Irish roads engineers (and other decision makers) have long regarded priority for pedestrians and cyclists as offensive and objectionable.

beauf

Still make no sense as I was on about them adding priority features for cyclists. When they did they copied outdated practise. Not that they removed priority.

Iwannahurl

beauf wrote: »

Are you in favour in reckless pedestrian crossing of a roadway?

I'm not in favour of Irish engineers and "planners" designing urban areas in a reckless manner that creates danger and inconvenience for pedestrians and cyclists.

beauf wrote: »

Still make no sense as I was on about them adding priority features for cyclists. When they did they copied outdated practise. Not that they removed priority.

They're decades behind. It may take a new generation of road/traffic engineers to bring about real change.

beauf

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm not in favour of Irish engineers and "planners" designing urban areas in a reckless manner that creates danger and inconvenience for pedestrians and cyclists.....

Sounds more like you won't accept any inconvenience/compromise.

djimi

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm not in favour of Irish engineers and "planners" designing urban areas in a reckless manner that creates danger and inconvenience for pedestrians and cyclists.

Just to play devils advocate, why is it okay to inconvenience motorists but not pedestrians and cyclists?

If moving a pedestrian crossing 50m further from a roundabout means that cars are not being forced to stop on the roundabout, where at best they are blocking the roundabout and at worst are creating a dangerous situation, then surely it makes sense to do so. Does it really matter that much to a pedestrian if a crossing a few meters further up the road?

beauf

I don't get it either. Even on the bike I might prefer a longer way around if its a nicer route.

Kevwoody

I actually think it's a bit safer having the crossing at the roundabout, because,

A. Pedestrians only have to cross one
lane of traffic at a time, as there is
usually the safety of a splitter island.

B. People will be travelling faster as they
come away from a roundabout, so if
the crossing was further away it would
be even more dangerous.

What happened me yesterday was due to the idiot driving the jeep thinking it was ok to stop ON a roundabout to wave pedestrians across, not the actual pedestrians.

Iwannahurl

djimi wrote: »

Just to play devils advocate, why is it okay to inconvenience motorists but not pedestrians and cyclists?

If moving a pedestrian crossing 50m further from a roundabout means that cars are not being forced to stop on the roundabout, where at best they are blocking the roundabout and at worst are creating a dangerous situation, then surely it makes sense to do so. Does it really matter that much to a pedestrian if a crossing a few meters further up the road?

Roundabouts are junctions. Pedestrians want to cross at junctions, because that is the most direct route. A pedestrian crossing located 50 metres from a roundabout is a 100 metre detour for someone who just wants to cross the road from A to B. I know of one roundabout (in Salthill, Galway) where pedestrians wishing to access shops and cafes are expected to cross the road twice on one side or take a total 250 metre detour on the other. Either that or engage in what some people call "reckless pedestrian crossing" or "jaywalking".

The reasons for prioritising pedestrians and cyclists are obvious. These modes of travel cause little or no death or injury to anyone, do not burn non-renewable fossil fuels, do not emit noxious exhaust gases, do not contribute to climate change, do not cause traffic congestion and do not cause noise pollution, while contributing to public health as well as being the most efficient use of both energy and finite urban space.

beauf wrote: »

Sounds more like you won't accept any inconvenience/compromise.

On the contrary. As a motorist I'm more than happy to yield to pedestrians and cyclists, whether entering or exiting a roundabout. And if a particular roundabout is beyond redemption, I'd be more than happy to have it signalised. And when the signals are in, I'm quite content to let pedestrians and cyclists get more green time. As a motorist I'm also in favour of lower speed limits, traffic calming and safety cameras in such places.

beauf

Iwannahurl wrote: »

...These modes of travel cause little or no death or injury to anyone..

The point isn't that they cause deaths. But that they get killed or injured themselves.

keithclancy

djimi wrote: »

Just to play devils advocate, why is it okay to inconvenience motorists but not pedestrians and cyclists?

If moving a pedestrian crossing 50m further from a roundabout means that cars are not being forced to stop on the roundabout, where at best they are blocking the roundabout and at worst are creating a dangerous situation, then surely it makes sense to do so. Does it really matter that much to a pedestrian if a crossing a few meters further up the road?

If the junction is 50 meters down the road then people won't use it and will just cross where there is a gap in traffic.

All users Cyclists/Pedestrians/Car/Truck etc should be equal on the road.

beauf

keithclancy wrote: »

..All users Cyclists/Pedestrians/Car/Truck etc should be equal on the road.

Some roads do not allow certain type of traffic.

Iwannahurl

beauf wrote: »

The point isn't that they cause deaths. But that they get killed or injured themselves.

An even more compelling reason to prioritise pedestrians and cyclists.