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Ivor Bell arrested and charged in Jean McConville murder investigation

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    #182
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Which is once again, ignoring the realities in order to climb onto the high moral ground.
    No you're going to just ignore what I said so?

    BTW, still waiting for a scenario as to what the IRA might have done around Bloody Sunday that would in any way modify the culpability of the paratroopers?


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    #183
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    holyhead wrote: »
    the SDLP were the dominant political force on the Republican side.

    I wouldnt agree with this totally. yes, overall they were the majority, but at a grass root working class level, SF always had the majority of the vote. the SDLP were very much a middle class party (as far as I remember anyway growing up)


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    #184
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    so basically you want a scapegoat and not the truth? It doesnt matter to you if it ends up he wasnt in the IRA etc etc?

    Well done. Great sense of justice there indeed.
    holyhead wrote: »
    Yes happyman I am highly educated and well versed in the english language. Nobody will take Gerry Adams seriously as long as he continues to deny he was in the IRA and as long as he continues to deny having any hand act or part in Ms McConville's disappearance. It is Gerry who is insulting the intelligence of his fellow Irishman.


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    #185
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    holyhead wrote: »
    It is true that the IRA tapped into a well of discontent at Catholics being treated as second class citizens in N.I. as well as a desire for a united Ireland. They had no official policital mandate and indeed as I say until Sinn Fein embraced peace the SDLP were the dominant political force on the Republican side.

    Yes most Irish people wanted/want a 32 county Ireland but not by violent means.

    Oh yes, they forgot to hold the referendum like other revolutionaries did before them. :rolleyes:


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    #186
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    There wasnt much of an IRA when bloody sunday occured. 'I Ran Away' was the slogan of the time
    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    No you're going to just ignore what I said so?

    BTW, still waiting for a scenario as to what the IRA might have done around Bloody Sunday that would in any way modify the culpability of the paratroopers?


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    #187
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    holyhead wrote: »
    Yes happyman I am highly educated and well versed in the english language. Nobody will take Gerry Adams seriously as long as he continues to deny he was in the IRA and as long as he continues to deny having any hand act or part in Ms McConville's disappearance. It is Gerry who is insulting the intelligence of his fellow Irishman.

    I think you really need to sit down and have a long hard educated look at what you just typed there.


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    #188
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    No you're going to just ignore what I said so?
    Yes I probably am, like other people living in a real world.
    BTW, still waiting for a scenario as to what the IRA might have done around Bloody Sunday that would in any way modify the culpability of the paratroopers?

    I have no idea what your'e talking about or looking for.


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    #189
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I have no idea what your'e talking about or looking for.

    What I gleaned off it is that bloody sunday was probably caused by the IRA ... or something along those lines


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    #190
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Oh yes, they forgot to hold the referendum like other revolutionaries did before them. :rolleyes:

    That's irrelevant. The Tooting Popular Front could take up arms and claim to be revolutionaryies. It does not in any way legitimise their actions.


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    #191
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I have no idea what your'e talking about or looking for.
    Yeah, you do.


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    #192
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    It does not in any way legitimise their actions.

    It would to them which is the important thing. The fact is, they are not waiting to be legitimised by the state they are fighting.


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    #193
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    Yeah, you do.

    I don't.


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    #194
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Happyman Irish people are intelligent. Gerry would be wise not to insult their intelligence. Both Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price have said he was linked to the death of Ms McConville.


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    #195
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    That's irrelevant. The Tooting Popular Front could take up arms and claim to be revolutionaryies. It does not in any way legitimise their actions.

    if the Tooting Popular Front had enough popular support to avoid the authorities for years, then you would have to consider it a mandate of sorts. If the Tooting Popular Front didnt have popular support they would be caught and rounded up quickly. If they existed that is.


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    #196
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    both of whom disagreed with him on the peace process. axe to grind anyone?

    I think you are insulting their intelligence by deciding to speak for Irish people. You'd think you'd be interested in finding out the truth rather than making a manhunt out of it.
    holyhead wrote: »
    Happyman Irish people are intelligent. Gerry would be wise not to insult their intelligence. Both Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price have said he was linked to the death of Ms McConville.


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    #197
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    maccored wrote: »
    I wouldnt agree with this totally. yes, overall they were the majority, but at a grass root working class level, SF always had the majority of the vote. the SDLP were very much a middle class party (as far as I remember anyway growing up)

    The sdlp had a larger percentage of people that actually voted. A lot of people did not vote nor wanted to participate in the sham that tried to pass itself off as a political process pre 1998. A large bulk of people felt completely disenfranchised and this only changed after the gfa


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    #198
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    holyhead wrote: »
    Happyman Irish people are intelligent. Gerry would be wise not to insult their intelligence. Both Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price have said he was linked to the death of Ms McConville.

    Not intelligent enough to come up with a shred of proof that will stand the test of a court though.


    If there was any weight to Hughes, Price testimony don't you think action would have been taken?, Why hasn't Gerry been arrested when Bell has been on foot of the Boston College tapes? Can you apply your education to that for us?
    Guess, if you can't get the answer.

    'Gerry would be wise...' you do realise he must be the longest serving party leaders anywhere in the world?
    'Gerry would be wise...', that is truly hilarious, thanks for that! :D


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    #199
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    maccored wrote: »
    both of whom disagreed with him on the peace process. axe to grind anyone?

    Not just 'disagreed'...'vehemently disagreed' about something people have died for. Not hard to see that they might be stirring the pot.
    Anything they have to say is subsequently untrustworthy for that reason. Even the British obviously see that, hence no arrest.


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    #200
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    The sdlp had a larger percentage of people that actually voted. A lot of people did not vote nor wanted to participate in the sham that tried to pass itself off as a political process pre 1998. A large bulk of people felt completely disenfranchised and this only changed after the gfa

    34% didn't vote at all in the first Assembly elections the SDLP contested. Not a very accurate reflection of what was going on, on the ground.


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    #201
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Probably so. Where I grew up, people made a point of voting though, as the perception was that if you didnt, it would be seen as support for the unionist state,
    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    The sdlp had a larger percentage of people that actually voted. A lot of people did not vote nor wanted to participate in the sham that tried to pass itself off as a political process pre 1998. A large bulk of people felt completely disenfranchised and this only changed after the gfa


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    #202
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    The sdlp had a larger percentage of people that actually voted. A lot of people did not vote nor wanted to participate in the sham that tried to pass itself off as a political process pre 1998. A large bulk of people felt completely disenfranchised and this only changed after the gfa

    The political objective of the IRA was a united Ireland. The constituency who needed to mandate this was the people of Ireland. And whether you take them separately in two states or on the island as a whole they did not give this mandate.


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    #203
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Happyman Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes both prominent Republicans whose statements surely cant be dismissed on the grounds that they disagreed with Gerry or can it?

    I suppose it can if it suits your viewpoint. Politically the death of Ms McConville will shadow Gerry until the truth is definitively established.


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    #204
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    The political objective of the IRA was a united Ireland. The constituency who needed to mandate this was the people of Ireland. And whether you take them separately in two states or on the island as a whole they did not give this mandate.

    And? This alters what happened in reality how?


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    #205
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    so the north is a separate state when it suits, and then its part of ireland at other times - again when it suits? Fantastic logic!

    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    The political objective of the IRA was a united Ireland. The constituency who needed to mandate this was the people of Ireland. And whether you take them separately in two states or on the island as a whole they did not give this mandate.


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    #206
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    How would you bring down the peace process? start by bringing down adams. whats the quickest way of doing that? accusing him of killing someone.
    holyhead wrote: »
    Happyman Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes both prominent Republicans whose statements surely cant be dismissed on the grounds that they disagreed with Gerry or can it?

    I suppose it can if it suits your viewpoint. Politically the death of Ms McConville will shadow Gerry until the truth is definitively established.


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    #207
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    holyhead wrote: »
    Happyman Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes both prominent Republicans whose statements surely cant be dismissed on the grounds that they disagreed with Gerry or can it?

    It patently has been dismissed as not credible....no arrest on either count.
    I suppose it can if it suits your viewpoint. Politically the death of Ms McConville will shadow Gerry until the truth is definitively established.

    SF in the ascendancy in both jurisdictions and Gerry party leader. Yeh, them is big shadows alright.


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    #208
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It would to them which is the important thing. The fact is, they are not waiting to be legitimised by the state they are fighting.

    Or the people they represent, because ultimately, nationalism will unify them all for the greater good.

    I believe Mussolini shared the same view.


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    #209
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It patently has been dismissed as not credible.

    Hang on, Brendan Hughes was the beacon of truth earlier, now he's a liar?

    Make your mind up.


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    #210
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Or the people they represent, because ultimately, nationalism will unify them all for the greater good.

    I believe Mussolini shared the same view.

    Terribly close to godwins law there


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    #211
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    And? This alters what happened in reality how?
    You choose to ignore my argument that an army, guerrilla, or regular needs legitimacy. You may as well also ignore why PIRA lacked legitimacy.
    maccord wrote: »
    so the north is a separate state when it suits, and then its part of ireland at other times - again when it suits? Fantastic logic!
    It doesn't matter how you slice and dice it. The IRA did not have the support of the people of Ireland. Whether you take the island as a whole or the two jurisdictions.

    They had minority support in the minority community in the smaller jurisdiction.


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