dgt's 156 thread

dgt

Evening all

Seeing as this is a new sub forum I might aswell make a thread on a project of mine!

Mostly copy and paste job but meh

A few years back I got this 156:


Parked beside an epic Xantia :cool:

Soon joined by an SW


I started with small stuff



Uh oh, rear wheel

Twas fairly straight on the other side


Before long, I removed the engine


Found my crossmember was bent.... :mad:

dgt

......So off I went and acquired a donor vehicle. Straight crossmember is straight!


And this lurked under the bonnet


So I had a brainwave.... I began working immediately







By the time I was done there was nothing left. Poor car was absolutely rotten....!

dgt

As if one donor car wasn't enough, there was another one. The red one in the background was a V6 too at one stage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLsz7M-E7Io

It too, suffered the same fate






The main part I need


Not much left atall....


For those wondering, this car was absolutely rotten too. Here's the drivers footwell for example

dgt

These days I haven't done very much with the actual project car. I installed the velour rears but not the fronts and it has to come out again. I also replaced my scraped door




I'll be getting more free time with the car in the next few weeks so things should move quicker

Plans:

• Body loom swap
• Suspension swap
• Interior swap
• 5x108 hub conversion with 310mm discs and 4 pot Brembos

Just need the time that's all!

This ECU fiasco had me left absolutely speechless!!! :eek::eek::eek:

166man

Just realised how many silver Alfa's you have/had...5???

Still though it's going to be a mega project, I'll hopefully be following suit with the brembo conversion on the V6, though I suspect it's a tad more urgent with your yoke than mine....:pac:

dgt

I haven't forgotten about my 156. Been doing bits and bobs in the background

Hopefully soon enough I'll relocate it to the yard and have ready access to stripping it fully

A for my post, a simple observation. I have a 156 and 166 hub assembly side by side. Apart from the throw on the track rod (approx 10mm longer with the 166 assembly) it's the same (will the eagle eyed cop what type of 156 hub this is)

See where this is going?





(I'm using a TS hub, which as a 2mm smaller spline diameter than a V6 hub so nothing special :pac:)

dgt

May update this, I do work on this when I get the chance.....

It's since moved to where I used to have my van, beside the E34. So in the yard. Access to tools and all that.

Lets get to work eh....


The dash has a few bits added to it, I need somewhere better to put it. Most of the stuff on the ground will probably get the bin, either cracked or broke

ABS modules are different and seeing as this one was fantastic, I'd be silly not to


Bit more of the bay stripped


Brake lines are rotten, I'll need to copper them up....

This car had a problem with the rack, cracking like mad. Time to dig one out...


Useless for now, but I'll raid bits off that later....

I went to plan b: source out a different subframe and mount the rack on it. Picked the best one I could find


Out with the "quick" rack....


Similar to the 166 rack..... But different!


And I can't find the pics of the completed unit, gaaaahhhhh!!!!! But it looks gooooood :cool:

I hate the crappy ps cooler the 156 has. 166's have a nice fin type cooler. See where this is going?


Trim the 166 pipes


Add some bends then hey presto.....


Bang in the middle of the bumper

Next post....

dgt

The interior, or lack of.... Wheel position seems legit :pac:


Minus the dash mounting bar


Just a walk in the park this car....

Moving onto the problem of doors. Looms are different, I'm not rebuilding the door looms :eek:


Ah, this will do


You can see the different type plug in the doors. I need the other one with no doorcard. Speaking of doorcards, never liked those blue cloth ones. Out with....


I prefer velours over the leathers cos I'm weird like that

More shennanigans in due time

dgt

Good bye engine loom


Also on the chop list was the carpet, abs wiring, some crabby trim, sound deadening and a few sensors not needed for the new loom. Now I have a bare bones interior :cool:

Well, I have to put my stuff away for the night

dgt

Next on he chop list: pedal box


That's better



For those wondering, yes, I did treat that rust

Cleaning the chassis legs


Reveals shoddy repairs again :rolleyes:


All been taken care of by means of chipping it off, fire, removing the rust and treating it accordingly

New loom time! Means I have to clear the boot :mad:


Ah, there we go


More shtuff later....

dgt

I have hit an obstacle, main loom is cut badly. Grrrr!

Seeing as I got the pedal box in, bit annoying.....

Said pedalbox


The engine loom goes through the bulkhead. Nice provisions for it, push both these out and perfect :cool:


Got the heater in too :cool:


The had to pull the loom all out again! :mad:

I need a few days to prepare the new loom. By prepare, remove it from the other complete car :pac:

darragh o meara

Nice project mate. Would have loved to seen you put the V6 into the estate though.. Im a sucker for fast estates

dgt

Cheers but the SW ain't mine to butcher! Plus it doesn't have the all important 1.6 T.Spark badge...!

I've been busy

First, some axle work


156 axle


With 166 hubs and brakes


ABS sensor was an arse but otherwise.... That's the only one I've ever seen

Front is suitably being seen to. A few parts need to be changed for this to work, ask what if anyone is interested


I haven't done much with the silver 156 due to a major setback: main loom badly cut. So I had to take it out and get another one. No problem, I have another donor car. Thing is the car was still complete. So I needed to take it to a bare shell. Effort!

It was complete when I started earlier that day, by evening it looked like this


Needless to say, an absolute shower of monkeys had worked on this car before me. What asshat glues a radiator to the valance


Or breaks the TB!!!


Anyways, I kept at it whenever I could. We end up with this



Funny part is, I ain't finished stripping parts from it yet!

As for today, I pulled this out of nowhere. 2.5 master


With not so nice fluid


Despite the shocking condition of the fluid, I have seen FAR WORSE

I also have a load of DOT 5.1 to shove into it when ready to go....

So the loom. I had a decision to make, air con or not. Decided no, as I want less for the engine to drive and I can't be arsed plumbing it all up, even if it is easy. Thankfully, the loom does the non aircon heater, phew!


Seeing as one of the brake pipes was rotten, I made up a new one


So as of this evening, the bay is 60% reassembled loom/brake wise. Next on the list is the interior to rebuild. The airbag loom is reassembled, so the main loom is next. Shall be fun!

I'm getting there. Bit by bit

dgt

Cracking on.... I had a derp moment on learning the pedal box was different. Meh, about an hours work to change

Time to rewire the car again

First, ABS loom then place the heater


From there route the main loom over the heater and around the cabin. Don't worry about tidiness yet, it's just positioning


A way of saving time was to use doors with the correct loom. This door wouldn't lock though, turns out the pivot was broke! Simple to swap


After the main loom is in position, up with the mounting member. The loom bolts to it along with the dash. It isn't difficult to fit, just tight on room


When fitted, on with the engines ECU and airbag. The ECU has plugs that fit only in a certain order ie you can't start in the middle


While i have the car like this I'm putting the battery in the boot. Means pillaging this from a 166


Conveniently there is a grommet above the ABS cables, so route it through there and happy days!

Next was the passenger bag disable. Seeing as the one I had for the key was missing, out with the lock and when I was finished the key worked


Fusebox next along with a column. Need to route the plugs too before the dash


Dash on. Mind the steering adjustment otherwise it flies on. Held on with 8 bolts and a few screws


Looking a bit better now the clocks, clusters, switches and dimmer are cabled up


Hopefully I'll have the interior finished this week, the longest part. Then onto the engine and drivetrain

toastedpickles

Seen you posted, deliberately went out and got a pizza just to read it, hats off (literally) to you

CianRyan

This is some epic work, can't wait for a spin in it.

dgt

Nice short update now.... I've done absolutely naff all since the last update

Reason: when you are waiting for parts it becomes very stressful, especially wen you're meant to have said car running for August. Since then, I have given up waiting, got another car and will be building this at a much slower pace. That means I can do this one much better than previously anticipated and it's a huge weight off my shoulders

Remember I have other projects going on in the background too. I haven't forgotten about the 166 and it is being seen to but fook me that bang in the back is taking up valuable time... Then there's other projects I don't talk about on here, so I'm fairly pressed for breathing time even however, a black car might make an appearance.... I'm saying no more

I've been doing some bits and bobs to the engine such as swapping the boxes, swapping the DMF to solid, mounting points, oil cooler etc but have feck all photos of that as most was done in the dark....

I will finish this post with what was left of the blue donor car and hope to have a more interesting update the next time

I was very nice and left the phone kit in it :pac:

bear1

Ehh I missed this thread how???
Following
I'm wondering was removing the AC a good idea in the long run?
I know it can be reinstalled later just might make it a more bearable car in the summer months
The solid diff might be a good idea, what sort of clutch are you thinking of?
If you are able to squeeze it into your budget then maybe a Q2?

dgt

bear1 wrote: »

Ehh I missed this thread how???
Following
I'm wondering was removing the AC a good idea in the long run?
I know it can be reinstalled later just might make it a more bearable car in the summer months
The solid diff might be a good idea, what sort of clutch are you thinking of?
If you are able to squeeze it into your budget then maybe a Q2?

I don't talk about this car much, hence people will gloss over it. It's another sleeper project

Removing the a/c: the car came with a standard heater and seeing as I've survived without a/c for so long I'll do without it. Not necessary and less for the engine to do (unless I were back in Manila then I'd have a/c on with no questions)

The diff is the 56 tooth job from the 3.0 super, the box I'm using is from the super which conveniently is the same box as a GTA. The 2.5 has a 62 tooth final drive, so quicker to accelerate but harder on fuel. But because I'm using the 3.0 the extra low down grunt should negate any difference in acceleration and should see sub 7 second 0-100 times, with better fuel economy when cruising (oops, I've let that one out ) I have to swap the housing and mounts for it to fit into the 156. The solid fly works with the box, which worked with a DMF :mad:

Plan is to buy a paddle clutch, quaife diff and GTA up the flywheel (drill 6 more holes) when I can but for now I have a decent clutch that should handle the extra 40 odd horses from the 3.0 but will it handle a theoretical extra 130 bhp when I implement my future plan....?

If this is successful and I have funds, I have some strange ideas for this car which should leave it a tad faster again

bear1

Loving your work and ideas.
There is the water methanol idea, that should give you a serious amount of power.
I know it works on the JTD engine, not sure about the petrols.
In a way you want to sort of make it a Selespeed GTA? The ECU might be a bit tricky to handle both but I get the feeling you know what you are talking about

dgt

bear1 wrote: »

Loving your work and ideas.
There is the water methanol idea, that should give you a serious amount of power.
I know it works on the JTD engine, not sure about the petrols.
In a way you want to sort of make it a Selespeed GTA? The ECU might be a bit tricky to handle both but I get the feeling you know what you are talking about

Water injection for turbo, doesn't work so well with n/a due to temperature difference. I toyed with the idea for the 406

Not a selespeed but some GTA's were manuals and the 3.0 box is the same as it, which means it will take the extra grunt

I have a lot of novel ideas to implement yet. One of the novelties I've created are the driveshafts and rear hubs, 156 V6 shafts with 166 cv ends to fit the 29mm 166 hub so I can have brembos, very cost effective and added bonus of 166 wheels and brakes!

bear1

What sort of HP are you hoping to get out of it?
With the AC knocked off that should be a few kilos saved in weight.
I'm not sure about the 2.5 engine but I know the 3.2 can be supercharged

dgt

bear1 wrote: »

What sort of HP are you hoping to get out of it?
With the AC knocked off that should be a few kilos saved in weight.
I'm not sure about the 2.5 engine but I know the 3.2 can be supercharged

Well standard it produces 226bhp, so hopefully I can coax it above the 230 mark with little effort

Then when the HX50 goes on, initially I'll be running it as an LP and when I get the time I'll redo the engine so I can use it as a HP turbo. Should prove to be interesting if it all works

dgt

A generic update

I haven't done much due to other commitments but alas, spare time and all that means some stuff does get done

Starting with my GTA box

Diff housing was different. Que the swap


The standard 156 2.5 box, complete with chattering, alu paste and hideous repair :eek:


Here you can see why I needed the housings swapped


Next, I dug out one of the many covers I have and had a spur of the moment idea....


The Merc's engine will get the same treatment, not necessarily in matte black though


Not perfect but it'll do. Main part is grand, that's grand


Now the plenum


Getting there....


Perfect :cool:

dgt

Now, this update is more for me as I have another one to do but sharing it anyway seeing as it's part of the build. Please excuse the odd looking photos now and again

It's a job I have been dreading: t belt + water pump change. It's not hard, but in the car is a nightmare with room (166 isn't just as bad). There's a lot to take off but needed to do the job right. Plus I discovered a few methods they probably didn't want shared.... Tough, it may help someone

The required parts


Never EVER change a Busso belt without the rollers, as these fail first before the belt and tensioner. Old rollers with a tight new belt result in a big coffee table shaped mess

The confusing tensioner tool and associated tools needed


First, remove the big 41mm nut holding the crank pulley. Forget breaker bars/3 quarter ratchets. Inch gun!!!



All the timing covers next. Few bolts are hidden for the small covers for the tensioner and guide roller (3 per cover). The main cover is one piece and is a handy tray


Next, both rocker covers have to come for access to the cams, an essential part of the job. Front first. Don't forget the earth on the side. 28 bolts and one nut


The plenum has to come off the rear, 6 snap clips, 3 pipes and associated pipework (or stable bracket for 156's). Front is easier to take off but if you remove the trumpets it's the same effort


Cam locks once TDC is found. I'll show how I find TDC later. Cyl 1 is on the left bank beside the cam sprockets (as you look at the timing belt). Always use standard long M8 bolts and nuts to tighten the locks, or face ruining the cap threads


Tip time: if you don't have the sprocket tool, there are notches on the cam which when locked allow a spanner to slot into position and hold the cam while opening the sprocket bolts. Seeing as it was a wide head, I whipped out me dick, but after loosely operating my tool, I found my dick was too big for this job..... So something smaller was used instead


Once the tensioner and sprockets are loose, off with the belt! You need to loosen the sprockets, there is a guard behind. Just whack it gently with a hammer. This way the sprocket isn't damaged/burred. Seeing as my application is a bit different, I've removed the sprockets and covers....


166 uses a different steady mount, so this needs swapping


Next, waterpump. Early pumps had plastic impellors, which were crap and broke. 12 bolts on the side, 4 on top. Coolant will still sit there, so expect a good dribble when prying it off. To gain access to the bolt behind the pulley, remove the pulley using the old belt as a lock strap. 3 x 10mm bolts


Then scrape off the old gasket....


To the next post...

dgt

To refit it all now....

These bolts needed cleaning. All 16 of them!!!


This concerned me and I couldn't find my spare guard.... So I fitted it and hammered it away so it wouldn't foul the guide roller


One thing I utterly detest: tippex belt changes. What ape changes a V6 belt without the tools or more so, how??!!!!!


There's writing on the sprockets so once that white mistake was wiped off, line up the writing so it faces the right way. This helps on testing the belt later.

Guards on, guide rollers on. Don't fit the tensioner yet, belt won't slip on with it in place (I did just for assessing positioning)


Now, the moment I've waited for. This is the only picture of the tensioning tool being used as it should. The lever piece bolts into the guide roller between the alternator and crank pulley. The guide piece bolts into the bolt hole for the tensioner cover. Use long bolts and nuts to prevent damaging threads. Note, this is untensioned, the marker does not line up with the notch


This is what the tensioner looks like when tensioned. The marker lines up in the middle


I hunted high and low, no pictures. No one wanted to tell me how to use the tool. So I say f*ck them all, that's how you use the Alfa V6/Busso tensioning tool

Tip: if one cannot afford the tool, here's another way to tension the belt they probably don't want you to know....


Ignoring the tensioning tool, jab the screwdriver between the back of the tensioner and alternator bracket, then line up the notch. Job done!!!

All tensioned. Perfect!


Now, remove the cam locks. Seeing as the caps are numbered and arrowed on the right bank, lettered on the left, you'd want to be thoroughly stupid to mess that up. When putting the caps back, break out the oil and lube those caps. They'll be very happy to see that!


Caps tighten to 20nm. How do I check TDC? With 2 metal wiper blade strips. No need for a dial float


Now, I'd like to show you the covers on but it began to bucket rain! All I have to do is bolt up the coils, on with the plenum and plug cover.

So that's how to do an Alfa V6 belt. Not overly difficult eh....

Bolomaster

Fair bit of work there fella! Does it turn?

dgt

Bolomaster wrote: »

Fair bit of work there fella! Does it turn?

Oh yes, the engine turns and is timed on the button! I'm looking foreward to seeing it run again

A small update. I haven't done much atall

I fitted my 156 diff housing. I'm not happy with it as it's crap but it will do for now. Note the previous diff is still present.....


Cleaned up thoroughly and fitted to the new box

Changed the front engine mount too. Was told this was a horror of a job. What kind of wimps are these people :rolleyes:

Old mount/bracket


Off


Aaaaaand back on. 4 miserable nuts. Horror to change me arse :rolleyes:


That's it for now, I hope to have more in due time

dgt

I have been busy elsewhere, so a tame update

I have the wiper motor in, scuttle panel and all that tat refitted.

Changed the petrol pipes. This caused petrol to piss all over my phone and feck it up a bit, hence from here on I apologize for the sub standard quality of pics

Which leads me onto a gear lever swap. Simple really, off with the mounting bracket that holds the handbrake and gearlever


CF2 doesn't fit CF3, quelle surprise.... 4 nuts and a grommet to remove the gear lever


Same for the other boyo


Ends are different along with the lever itself....


My camera wouldn't focus on the crappy handbrake switch


All back together, crappily cleaned up, ready to shove on the car :cool:

dgt

Horay! At long long last, proper wheels again.... More on that further down :cool:

But first, I had to relocate it temporarily. A piece of cake to move


I kept ripping me trousers off the sharp corners, so I crappily shoved in the lights

There isn't much to this subframe swap. Disconnect calipers, abs sensors, handbrake cables. Then it's 4 bolts per side and 2 nuts on the top of the strut


A small inconvenience that may cause the rear wheels to go arseways....


I then entertained guests

We return sometime after I've finished watching the simpsons.... I've all the bolts and buts off, rubber stuck. Needs freeing with my sophisticated device


Now it's out I have to swap some bits onto the new subframe. I've also removed the drop links as they're crap


In position


Fitted, everything else reassembled and back down on 166 wheels


I got the handbrake and gear lever back in too, but it's to dark for pics

More tomorrow hopefully

dgt

Time to finish my grubby interior

Not much left to finish it fully


Rear heat conductor first


Centre console bracket and centre console


Rear vents, some covers, centre console and refit the drivers seat. We have a result





Did I show yis my black roof lining?


I did the a and c pillar trim too


So save a few small bits inside, it's finished in the cabin. Apart from the rear abs sensors and wiring the earths in the boot, everything bulkhead back is finished I even had time to clean it before it lashed rain! :pac:

Now, hopefully the next update will be a bit more interesting....!

dgt

Update time

With other projects and some personal problems, this car does get the back burner now and again.... This is mostly about the engine but alas, lets see what I got up to anyway!

First, converting the air oil cooler to coolant means I have to swap the studs


On with the filter housing/inter shaft housing


Cooler now


The front


Pull clutches are grand and dandy, except on a Busso they're a complete arse to put back together, between fiddly mount designs and an awkward shaped box


I got it on myself but it took a lot of swearing


Choice of starters


Ready for it... The pig fell off the pallet.... But I got the starter on :pac:


Manifold on


I should have more pics, but can't find them.... Either way, it's ready to shove into the car. I have 156 mounts on, shields, wired up, slave housing.

Soon.... How soon....

shedweller

That engine looks like it's trying to escape! Or just get in the car??!

blackbox

oops - I meat to post this in the 166 thread...

Regarding cam belt tensioning on the V6, the special tool works better if you put the lower bolt into the alternator mounting hole. This allows it to tighten up against the tensioner mounting rather than the actual pulley (which might get damaged). When tightened correctly the Allen bolt can be tightened to hold it in place. - If you use it as in DGT's photo, access to the allen bolt is blocked.

To use the special tool requires the alternator to be removed, which is even more work.

My recommendation is to follow DGT's "alternative method" using a screwdriver to lever up to the correct tension. Better and simpler and can still be done with the engine in a 166 - I don't know about 156..

i.e. I wouldn't waste my money on the tool (again!).