Be wary of moving to Pre-Pay Power

Millions Of Daisies

If you're thinking about switching to prepay power to save on your bills, you might want to think again.

Here's why:
1. Prepay power electricity units are charged at considerably higher rates than ordinary electricity unit rates.
2. It's very difficult to return to using ordinary electricity once you've been set up with an electricity meter. Always check with your current electricity provider to see if they'll allow you to change back in the future.
3. If you run out of credit, you have NO POWER. Think about the implications:
- you could be left in darkness with the possibility of having an accident in your home
- you could have no way to charge your mobile phone in an emergency
- if you have electric heating you could be freezing in the winter
- with no electricity, your fridge/freezer contents will be spoiled in a few hours
- you won't be able to go online or watch tv
- if you have an electric oven / hob you won't be able to cook
- you won't even be able to boil a kettle for hot water
- the list goes on!
4. To avoid having NO POWER, you will most likely end up 'topping up' your meter by more than you need. Not much of a saving there.
5. If you have NO POWER, it's impossible to use your computer to top up online.
6. If you have NO POWER, it'll be difficult to charge your mobile to top up over the phone.
7. If you have NO POWER (including no internet, no mobile phone) the only way to top up is by buying a voucher from a store that you must travel to, presuming that they are open or that they even carry prepay power vouchers. Not very convenient.
8. If your prepay power provider puts up their prices, you are pretty much stuck with them.
9. For all that you might 'save', which is most likely not that much, ask yourself is it really worth all that hassle and worry?
10. If you really want to save on your bills, there are some simple things that will SAVE YOU MONEY!!! Here's a few I've tried and they did save us money on our bill.
- Replace ordinary light bulbs with energy saver bulbs, or better still LED bulbs. LED bulbs use only a tiny fraction of the electricity and they're instantly bright when you switch them on.
- Boiling the kettle uses loads of electricity. You can save money by only boiling the water you need...i.e. enough for one cup of tea instead of a whole kettle full.
- Switch off appliances at night. If you have a lot of plugs in one location (like around the TV or computer) you can buy an inexpensive multi-plug socket with an on/off switch. You can also buy timer sockets which you can set up to switch off at certain times of the day. They work like an immersion in your hot press.
- If you have an immersion, make sure it's got a timer and it's insulated. You could save 30% on your electricity costs - that's quite a saving.

For more tips on how to save money on your electricity bills, check out this link:
http://www.consumerhelp.ie/electricity-gas

kc90

It's worth noting that most of those points apply to bill pay electricity also, if you don't pay your bill, the equivalent of running out of credit.

dudara

As this is a general comment on pre-pay power, rather than a specific Consumer Issue, I am moving to the Accomodation & Property forum

dudara

To be fair, a lot of your points are equally applicable to people who don't pay their bills either. Same implications if you have no power.

Carroller

Millions Of Daisies wrote: »

If you're thinking about switching to prepay power to save on your bills, you might want to think again.

Here's why:
3. If you run out of credit, you have NO POWER. Think about the implications:
- you could be left in darkness with the possibility of having an accident in your home
- you could have no way to charge your mobile phone in an emergency
- if you have electric heating you could be freezing in the winter
- with no electricity, your fridge/freezer contents will be spoiled in a few hours
- you won't be able to go online or watch tv
- if you have an electric oven / hob you won't be able to cook
- you won't even be able to boil a kettle for hot water
- the list goes on!
4. To avoid having NO POWER, you will most likely end up 'topping up' your meter by more than you need. Not much of a saving there.
5. If you have NO POWER, it's impossible to use your computer to top up online.
6. If you have NO POWER, it'll be difficult to charge your mobile to top up over the phone.
7. If you have NO POWER (including no internet, no mobile phone) the only way to top up is by buying a voucher from a store that you must travel to, presuming that they are open or that they even carry prepay power vouchers. Not very convenient.

I dont work or have pre pay power, but is this not obvious? its like trying to make a phone call without credit! it doesnt work... Also is there not friendly hours (9pm-9am and weekends) where they cant cut you off for having no credit until outside them times?

slimjimmc

I don't use PP but some close friends are customers and it works out well for them, and this is what I know from my friends' experiences and PP's website.

1. Electricity is priced the same as with Electric Ireland's standard unit and standing charge, but PP do charge a fixed extra 37.5 cents per day for their gear. For example, if you use 150 units in one day PP charge €0.375 per day more than Electric Ireland would for the same 150 units of electricity. €0.375 per day = €2.62 per week.
2. Why is it very difficult? Why would other providers reject you?. If you're badly in arrears you'll find it hard to move no matter who you're with.
3. If you run out of credit the system will not simply cut you off without giving you plenty of forewarning.
-The meter displays your usage and credit balance.
-If your balance goes below €5 (I think) it'll start bleeping loudly to until you acknowledge it. If you continue to let it go to €0 it automatically tops up with a €5 IOU (deducted from your next credit top-up) so that you don't run out of electricity the next day. If you use up all that credit and still haven't topped up only then will you lose power.
4. No, there is ample advance warning and an auto €5 IOU top-up, so you don't have to add on your own safety net.
5 and 6. It's won't come as a surprise your credit is low so top up before your €5 IOU runs out! You'll probably have your phone charged up anyway.
7. But it's not as if you'll have to jump out of bed in the middle of the night as soon as your meter runs low. You have that €5 IOU as a buffer. Vouchers can be got in Payzone outlets nationwide.
8. No more so than with any provider. If their prices change they must give you 30 days written notice and you can terminate the contract and switch to another supplier. If you are with the initial 12 month period you don't pay early termination charges. There is a €50 fee for removing their meter but I'm not sure if that applies in event of a price change . It's all in their T&Cs on their website.
9. Suits some people, doesn't suit others. It means they won't go get floored by a large bill, some people aren't great at saving and budgeting if there are other financial pressures. This way they know they only use what they can afford.
10. Obviously good advice but not relevant you your choice of provider.

PP never claim to be the cheapest (though my friends do say they've become more conscious of their consumption), they're aimed at landlords, and people who don't want to get into arrears, large bills, can't pay deposits or DD.

I have no link to PP or incentive to talk them them up, but nor do I want to see exaggerated claims for or against a service.

Mrs W

I've had a few tenants ask can they move over to them, when they left we had no problem getting it removed and in a few cases the new tenants moving in were delighted it was already there because they wanted it. It's very handy for people that don't want a big bill all in one go

firestarter51

pre power is a rip off, quite obvious really, the only benefit i can see is for landlords of rental property, so they dont get left with big bills when tenants leave

ted1

slimjimmc wrote: »

I don't use PP but some close friends are customers and it works out well for them, and this is what I know from my friends' experiences and PP's website.

1. Electricity is priced the same as with Electric Ireland's standard unit and standing charge, but PP do charge a fixed extra 37.5 cents per day for their gear. For example, if you use 150 units in one day PP charge €0.375 per day more than Electric Ireland would for the same 150 units of electricity. €0.375 per day = €2.62 per week.

that's the marketing speel. the important thing is that NO ONE pays the standard rate, everone gets between 10%-18% discounts, then when they expire they move supplier and get a discount again.

strandroad

slimjimmc wrote: »

2. Why is it very difficult? Why would other providers reject you?. If you're badly in arrears you'll find it hard to move no matter who you're with.

For some reason some providers cannot connect you if you had a prepay meter before. We bought a house with PrepayPower and wanted to switch to Energia - they could not take us, and we had to go with ESB which could. Even ESB could not connect us until the meter was taken down by PP first which took a while. Their helpdesk was very unhelpful in assisting you in how to get off their service, with different people telling you different things. Stay away...

slimjimmc

ted1 wrote: »

that's the marketing speel. the important thing is that NO ONE pays the standard rate, everone gets between 10%-18% discounts, then when they expire they move supplier and get a discount again.

As you say those who switch providers can get discounts but there are often conditions such as paying by DD or else pay a €300 deposit,
and commit to on-line billing. Plenty of people don't or can't switch around, or can't/don't want DD or can't/don't want on-line billing so your claim

that NO ONE pays the standard rate

is completely false.

Without the Direct Debit payment and on-line billing discounts the electricity-only prices are remarkably similar:
Airticity standard unit rate €0.1947, standing charge €165.82
EI standard unit rate €0.1931, standing charge €139.61/€177.06

pawrick

Used prepay power for 6 months. I found it to be more expensive as I no longer had the discounts I had previously plus the day charge added on.
I did find it great through to help you realise how much energy you were using up day to day.
I had no problems with their service, it does what it says it does and would be suitable for some people more than others. Topping up was a pain though when I wasnt used to it and would arrive home with the place in darkness after a weekend away.

ShaShaBear

We've used it in our current house and last house and had no problems with it.
It works out better for us than getting in a monthly or bi-monthly bill.
You don't get cut off when you run out. You get an automatic €5 IOU when the balance runs out, and they STILL won't cut you off during the weekend, bank holidays or outside of office hours. So basically, if you ran out on a Friday morning you would get the fiver, and they still wouldn't cut you off until 9AM Monday morning. If that Monday happened to be a Bank Holiday, you wouldn't get cut off until Tuesday morning.
And if things are financially so bad that you can't afford to top up the machine by a ruddy 10 quid in the space between Friday and Tuesday, then you would probably have some pretty big problems with a monthly bill as well.

firestarter51

I'm on bi monthly bills with Esb, I use an easy pay card and drop 20 or 30 on it every week, when the bill comes in it's usually paid and a few quid head start on the next one

ShaShaBear

firestarter51 wrote: »

I'm on bi monthly bills with Esb, I use an easy pay card and drop 20 or 30 on it every week, when the bill comes in it's usually paid and a few quid head start on the next one

As I said, it works better for us than a bi-monthly bill.
We are heavy users and would be lucky to get a bill in for €160 in two months. Yet we put €20 a week into the machine and it works out fine. Just the kind of people we are is all. Different strokes and all that.

ted1

ShaShaBear wrote: »

As I said, it works better for us than a bi-monthly bill.
We are heavy users and would be lucky to get a bill in for €160 in two months. Yet we put €20 a week into the machine and it works out fine. Just the kind of people we are is all. Different strokes and all that.

Sorry, I find your statements comical.
You say your heavy users, so you decide to pay more for electricty.
Why not address the issues with the money you save by going with a cheaper provider.
What type bulbs do you have? What rating are your appliances?

slimjimmc

ted1 wrote: »

Sorry, I find your statements comical.
You say your heavy users, so you decide to pay more for electricty.
Why not address the issues with the money you save by going with a cheaper provider.
What type bulbs do you have? What rating are your appliances?

You might find it so but it's far from comical for quite a few people. I'll give you one example of someone I know who puts €20 per week into the meter.

Single parent of 3 kids who works part-time for min wage. Has struggled to put food on the table or buy a bag of coal for heating so no chance of replacing appliances with more energy efficient ones.
This person switched to PP because you can't run up arrears and associated stress and, for them, paying anyone by DD is a no no (so no chance of DD discounts).

The main electricity suppliers may provide their own pre-pay meter but you'll still be put on the highest tarrif and if you're not already in arrears you have to pay installation fees. http://www.moneyguideireland.com/pay-as-you-go-electricity-meters.html

So please understand that not everyone is in a position avail of discounts or deal with bills and that the likes of PrePay Power and Pinergy do suit some people even though they are not the cheapest supplier out there.

ted1

slimjimmc wrote: »

You might find it so but it's far from comical for quite a few people. I'll give you one example of someone I know who puts €20 per week into the meter.

Single parent of 3 kids who works part-time for min wage. Has struggled to put food on the table or buy a bag of coal for heating so no chance of replacing appliances with more energy efficient ones.
This person switched to PP because you can't run up arrears and associated stress and, for them, paying anyone by DD is a no no (so no chance of DD discounts).

Your missing the point where the poster claimed to be a heavy user.

Regards getting. Bills, set up the supplier on your online banking and transfer 20 quid once a week= no bills.

Cheaper electricity.


What has a single parent got to do with the issue? There better looked after than two patent families....
Why use coal in an open fire? Its only 30% efficent. Once again fix the issue don't stick on a bandage.

The payback on replacing some appliances is less than a year.

djimi

ShaShaBear wrote: »

As I said, it works better for us than a bi-monthly bill.
We are heavy users and would be lucky to get a bill in for €160 in two months. Yet we put €20 a week into the machine and it works out fine. Just the kind of people we are is all. Different strokes and all that.

How is putting €20 into the machine any better than getting a pay card from ESB and whacking €20 off your bill? Same difference in terms of what you pay, but the bill is going to work out cheaper than if youre on prepay.

wmpdd3

I have the Esb pre pay meter.

I pay the standard rate less 5% for online Billing and 4% for pre pay.

Yes it is hard to get used to, we went to my mums for Christmas and had to stick 40 euro i'm just to make sure we didn't lose a freezer of food.

The meter will tell you your average daily usage so you can guess how many days you will get out of your top up.

I have been cut of about 5 times in 7 months.

With my metre you get cut of and then press a button to choose to use the 5 euro credit.

The main pain is that the only shop that sells the credit is 2 miles away and you can't to up online. No fun getting 2 kids out of bed and into a supermarket for credit.

I can see how it could be great if you are sharing a flat though, friends of mine put 30 euro each in the meter, they just take turns. Much easier than the bi monthly bill.

Funky G

firestarter51 wrote: »

pre power is a rip off, quite obvious really, the only benefit i can see is for landlords of rental property, so they dont get left with big bills when tenants leave

Not true

The utility bills are the responsibility of the tenant, not the landlord. Its stated in every lease. Landlords have the MRPN and GRPN numbers and simply transfer the accounts to the new tenant. Their account starts from the moment the transfer phone call is over. Personally, I would never allow one of these machines into my property. Too expensive, and what of the cost of getting them installed / removed?

From personal experience, an ex tenant of ours left the house and left the gas and electricity company with big bills. When we explained the situation we got the accounts transferred into our name and the bills started at zero. We didn't have to pay for the last tenant's misgivings.

slimjimmc

ted1 wrote: »

Your missing the point where the poster claimed to be a heavy user.

Regards getting. Bills, set up the supplier on your online banking and transfer 20 quid once a week= no bills.

Cheaper electricity.


What has a single parent got to do with the issue? There better looked after than two patent families....
Why use coal in an open fire? Its only 30% efficent. Once again fix the issue don't stick on a bandage.

The payback on replacing some appliances is less than a year.

Sorry but it's you who is missing the point with more of your assumptions and generalisations about people's financial situations.
Why can't you just accept that there are people who don't have the means to pay for a new energy efficient fridge, washing machine or whatever even if they could pay by instalments; they don't have a stash of cash to install an oil fired burner or get a fill of oil (by God would they love the luxury of a nice warm house at the flick of a switch); for whom saving for large bills/purchases is impractical due to many immediate pressures on finances. Not everyone is internet savy, or has a pc or can use a web enabled phone to do on-line banking.

ted1

slimjimmc wrote: »

Sorry but it's you who is missing the point with more of your assumptions and generalisations about people's financial situations. There are plenty who are not "better looked after".

Why can't you just accept that there are people who don't have the means to pay for a new energy efficient fridge, washing machine or whatever even if they could pay by instalments. They don't have a stash of cash to install an oil fired burner or get a fill of oil (by God would they love the luxury of a nice warm house at the flick of a switch). Not everyone is internet savy, or has a pc or can use a web enabled phone to do on-line banking.

Excuses excuses....
I never said anything about oil, a stove is about 80% efficent.
So for every 100 euro spent on coal they waste 70 euro. Where as with a stove it's only 20 euro.

wmpdd3

I would give my left arm for a stove, we wear fleece in the house for 9 months of the year.

slimjimmc

ted1 wrote: »

Excuses excuses....
I never said anything about oil, a stove is about 80% efficent.
So for every 100 euro spent on coal they waste 70 euro. Where as with a stove it's only 20 euro.

And I never said anything about an open fire either
FYI an example I'm thinking off already has a solid fuel cooker which provides heat and hot water for the whole house; that's whenever they have enough fuel for it (which wasn't the case on a number of occasions in recent months)

foggy_lad

Lets just agree that Unit for Unit these prepay suppliers are a lot more expensive and charge €137 per year on top of the standard rate of electricity with no possibility of discounts.

If people are having trouble with the bills there are alternatives such as paying a tenner or €20 into the post office or even online every week or whenever the cash is available.

The last thing people want when they are struggling with bills is to be charged so much more and get nothing for it! these prepay suppliers represent NO value for money!

astrofool

Great for people who aren't good with money (I wonder how long it will take for a pre-pay power account to negatively affect their credit rating).

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

djimi

astrofool wrote: »

Great for people who aren't good with money (I wonder how long it will take for a pre-pay power account to negatively affect their credit rating).

Why would a prepay account affect credit rating?

Heisenberg1

foggy_lad wrote: »

Lets just agree that Unit for Unit these prepay suppliers are a lot more expensive and charge €137 per year on top of the standard rate of electricity with no possibility of discounts.

If people are having trouble with the bills there are alternatives such as paying a tenner or €20 into the post office or even online every week or whenever the cash is available.

The last thing people want when they are struggling with bills is to be charged so much more and get nothing for it! these prepay suppliers represent NO value for money!

That's not true I have a bord gais prepay electicity meter and I am charged the exact same standing charge and unit price as a DD customer.

K.Flyer

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

That's not true I have a bord gais prepay electicity meter and I am charged the exact same standing charge and unit price as a DD customer.

I'm with Airtricity pre-pay about a year now thanks to their rubbish billing method which resulted in me having arrears of over 2,000 euro. (D.D. was being paid, I thought fine, but after a year it turned out they had been grossly underestimating the bills).
25% of what I put in the machine goes off the arrears and the rest is for usage. Its simple, it works, no nasty letters, no monthly bills, just pay and go.
It also makes you ultra aware of how you use electricty, especially if you use a stand alone monitor as well, so now our cost are way down.
We can top up on line if we wanted to, but for us its just as easy when getting some groceries to get 20euro while we are there.
I just rang Airtricity to check our rate/kw.hr. and we are paying more or less the same as a D.D. customer and they said its no problem having it removed when the arrears are cleared if we wanted to.
But we will probably keep it in.

foggy_lad

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

That's not true I have a bord gais prepay electicity meter and I am charged the exact same standing charge and unit price as a DD customer.

Read my posts.

I am talking about the new prepay suppliers such as prepay power and pineregy etc who add their own charges onto the standard rate electricity,

I have previously stated that anyone wanting a prepay meter should ask electric Ireland or bord gais etc to install it, as they will not have to pay any extra service charges.