Diesel vs Petrol spreadsheet

chrisreichel

I saw in a different thread some guys comparing the values, so I created this spreadsheet.

mickdw

chrisreichel wrote: »

I saw in a different thread some guys comparing the values, so I created this spreadsheet.

The fuel cost is only a very tiny part of the petrol v diesel debate.

Atlantic Dawn

Just under €4 a week saving to sound like a tractor, interesting.

drunkmonkey

Is there any 230bhp + petrol that returns 40mpg or above? I'd be interested if the tax was right.

Tigger

diesel costs 149 in my local petrol costs more
i do 30000km and as the previous poster said you dont get 200bhp at 40mpg in petrol

my savings came in at 1250

Miscreant

I think the diesel and petrol price per unit in that spreadsheet is switched. The €1.51 should be in the diesel column. Changes the outcome somewhat.....
Not just a €4 a week saving then.
I did something like this when thinking of changing my petrol motor. I get 30 to the gallon on average but factoring motor tax, loan payments and fuel, I worked out that I would be worse off to the tune of over €2000 per year by buying a diesel car in the price range I was looking at.
Would still like a new car but economics say otherwise for me

Donnelly117

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Is there any 230bhp + petrol that returns 40mpg or above? I'd be interested if the tax was right.

Id say a Golf GTi would be the number one contender here. Doubt it will quite make 40 though

L-M

Miscreant wrote: »

I think the diesel and petrol price per unit in that spreadsheet is switched. The €1.51 should be in the diesel column. Changes the outcome somewhat.....
Not just a €4 a week saving then.
I did something like this when thinking of changing my petrol motor. I get 30 to the gallon on average but factoring motor tax, loan payments and fuel, I worked out that I would be worse off to the tune of over €2000 per year by buying a diesel car in the price range I was looking at.
Would still like a new car but economics say otherwise for me

If you're comparing petrol to diesel you should compare the difference in price of a petrol and diesel model that you are buying, not ask how much youll save versus the 10 grand you're going to spend, as that makes absolutely no sense.

So if you're buying a 09 diesel Focus, and it's 10k and the same car in petrol is 8k, you find out how long it will take to save the 2k. Not how long it'll take to save 10k.

The_Honeybadger

I'd be saving 800 per year in fuel switching to a diesel. Any decent diesel will be minimum 2-3k more than its petrol equivalent to buy and you have dpf, dmf or turbo failure to worry about. What would the threshold be where you'd be better off with a diesel strictly in financial terms I wonder? It doesn't make sense for me anyway based on the above ( I changed the fuel costs as they appear to be wrong)

One big factor is depreciation however, diesels are holding their value well where newer petrols drop like crazy. If you are in the market for a newer car that alone would make a lot of people go for the diesel, even if they don't need one.

CiniO

chrisreichel wrote: »

I saw in a different some guys comparing the values, so I created this spreadsheet.

Is actually unit of km/l used anywhere in the world?

BTW - it's "km" (not KM) and "l" not (L).

thenightrider

With the price at the pumps today and leaving the mpg at 40 for petrol wish my petrol car got this and 50 for the diesel its a saving for me of over €900 a year if i put in more real mpg of petrol cars i have used as daily runners my car now is saving me over 1500 a year.

commited

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Is there any 230bhp + petrol that returns 40mpg or above? I'd be interested if the tax was right.

Remapped Saab 9-3 aero running LPG will see you somewhere around that.

Donnelly117

commited wrote: »

Remapped Saab 9-3 aero running LPG will see you somewhere around that.

The 9-3 Aero HOT was a 2.8 litre turbo wasnt it? Some hope of getting 40 mpg out of that! You'd be lucky to see 30. And if its running on gas its not running on petrol like the OP asked. Nice car all the same but Id say they are like hens teeth in Ireland

commited

Donnelly117 wrote: »

The 9-3 Aero HOT was a 2.8 litre turbo wasnt it? Some hope of getting 40 mpg out of that! You'd be lucky to see 30. And if its running on gas its not running on petrol like the OP asked. Nice car all the same but Id say they are like hens teeth in Ireland

The 9-3 Aero was available with 2.0HPT, giving 210bhp. A Hirsch remap (about €500) will give a reliable 230-240bhp with an improvement in economy assuming you don't boot it everywhere.

Regarding the economy, you should see an easy 23mpg on LPG, giving an "equivalent" fuel cost the same as a diesel running about 40mpg. Indeed, they are rare enough in Ireland but quite easy to find in the UK.

I understand it's on LPG but it's still capable of running petrol when needed and an interesting comparison all the same

I haven't run an LPG car in Ireland, but did about 40,000kms in a dual fuel Falcon in Australia and it's a brilliant fuel, our car ran smoother on LPG than petrol and saved us a decent amount of money (LPG was 60c/litre vs $1.20 for 91). Only frustration was relatively short range (about 400kms) which wasn't really an issue as LPG is available everywhere and including petrol we ended up with a total range of about 1200kms. The real barrier in Ireland is the limited number of fuel stations stocking it.

Zubeneschamali

Putting in Irish prices for fuel, and more realistic mileage figures, I'm saving €1600 a year running a diesel.

That's why for my car there are 174 diesel to 1 (one) petrol example for sale in Carzone.

dr.fuzzenstein

Works for me. Now multiply that by 5 years...

Sobanek

32500 kms per year = 89kms per day, 7 days a week.

125kms per day if we're talking 5 days a week.

I'd say at THIS kind of mileage, it makes sense, but I'd say the average Irish motorist does less than half that mileage in a day.

Notch000

as soon as you injectors go tits up you can scratch most of you diesl savings

dr.fuzzenstein

Notch000 wrote: »

as soon as you injectors go tits up you can scratch most of you diesl savings

It's the 1.8 TDCI, nothing much to go wrong on that.
Car has 280k km on it and will need some suspension bit, but that is not just a diesel phenomenon.
It just astounds me every time, in this forum it's cyclists, rapists and diesel drivers.
Now someone please tell me I should be driving a 5+ liter V8. :rolleyes:
If someone wants to burn their money, they're welcome to it and well wear, I actually like my oil burner, it's a nice car to drive and comfy on the motorway, loads of room and enough poke.
So go on, we'll get started on hp vs torque next.

Marty McFly

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's the 1.8 TDCI, nothing much to go wrong on that.
Car has 280k km on it and will need some suspension bit, but that is not just a diesel phenomenon.
It just astounds me every time, in this forum it's cyclists, rapists and diesel drivers.
Now someone please tell me I should be driving a 5+ liter V8. :rolleyes:

It's a motoring forum I'm pretty sure in every motor forum the popular choice will always be petrol.

Also a lot of the diesel hate comes from the new phenomonen in Ireland were everyone want's diesel regardless of whether they need it or not. People buying small diesel engines to drop there kids off at school in a 5 minute daily drive.

For me I will always drive petrol as long as my mileage stays low and for as long as I can for me petrol just sounds and feels better, I like having a car I can rev a bit .

traco

Here's a more comprehensive one, based on luxobangernomics theory to try an justify something bonkers.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32111526/OwnershipCostComparison.xlsx

dr.fuzzenstein

Marty McFly wrote: »

It's a motoring forum I'm pretty sure in every motor forum the popular choice will always be petrol.

Also a lot of the diesel hate comes from the new phenomonen in Ireland were everyone want's diesel regardless of whether they need it or not. People buying small diesel engines to drop there kids off at school in a 5 minute daily drive.

For me I will always drive petrol as long as my mileage stays low and for as long as I can for me petrol just sounds and feels better, I like having a car I can rev a bit .

Well, suitable for you in that case. And nothing wrong with petrol in the right circumstances. You've seen my mileage and it wouldn't work for me.
But what gets me is this attitude "a 1 liter petrol Micra is ALWAYS better than ANY diesel car because it's petrol", the usual Clarksonesque drivel spouted by the petrol brigade. Maybe it's all them fumes they're inhaling...
Petrol vs diesel, it's not always as clear cut.
My GF has an MX5, it really makes a difference on the motorway, droning along at a constant 120 km/h, the higher rev band being really useful when the car doesn't leave 5th gear for half an hour.
And it's not faster than my oilburner, it just revs higher, which has the advantage that erm, well, you know, it revs higher and makes a bit more noise...

So, it's not a case of petrol is ALWAYS better, if people where to approach this intelligently, i.e. engage their brain before spouting lazy stereotypes, they would say "petrol can be nice in the right cars under the right circumstances and a good diesel car can be ideal for commuting long distance".
The MX5 is great when cruising along the backroads with the top off, but for a drizzly 7 am commute, I want my comfy CMax. I could have bought the 1.6 petrol, but I would want to be clinically insane to do that.

Tea 1000

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, suitable for you in that case. And nothing wrong with petrol in the right circumstances. You've seen my mileage and it wouldn't work for me.
But what gets me is this attitude "a 1 liter petrol Micra is ALWAYS better than ANY diesel car because it's petrol", the usual Clarksonesque drivel spouted by the petrol brigade. Maybe it's all them fumes they're inhaling...
Petrol vs diesel, it's not always as clear cut.
My GF has an MX5, it really makes a difference on the motorway, droning along at a constant 120 km/h, the higher rev band being really useful when the car doesn't leave 5th gear for half an hour.
And it's not faster than my oilburner, it just revs higher, which has the advantage that erm, well, you know, it revs higher and makes a bit more noise...

So, it's not a case of petrol is ALWAYS better, if people where to approach this intelligently, i.e. engage their brain before spouting lazy stereotypes, they would say "petrol can be nice in the right cars under the right circumstances and a good diesel car can be ideal for commuting long distance".
The MX5 is great when cruising along the backroads with the top off, but for a drizzly 7 am commute, I want my comfy CMax. I could have bought the 1.6 petrol, but I would want to be clinically insane to do that.

Two things -
1. You're dead right, petrol is not always better than diesel. Even looking at the Ford camp alone most of their average petrol units are crappy and the diesels are just better before economics even come into it.
2. No. Just no. A 1.8 CMax is not faster than an MX5. Let me behind the wheel of your girlfriends car and I'll show you that! And an MX5 is a prime example of a car which a diesel would transform from a special car into a piece of crap.

dr.fuzzenstein

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Two things -
1. You're dead right, petrol is not always better than diesel. Even looking at the Ford camp alone most of their average petrol units are crappy and the diesels are just better before economics even come into it.
2. No. Just no. A 1.8 CMax is not faster than an MX5. Let me behind the wheel of your girlfriends car and I'll show you that! And an MX5 is a prime example of a car which a diesel would transform from a special car into a piece of crap.

God no, I would never suggest fitting an MX5 with a diesel lump, not even I am that insane.
As for the other point, a 00 MX5 with 120k miles on it and in need of a new exhaust system is not fast, no matter who drives it and the CMax would surprise you.

Tea 1000

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

God no, I would never suggest fitting an MX5 with a diesel lump, not even I am that insane.
As for the other point, a 00 MX5 with 120k miles on it and in need of a new exhaust system is not fast, no matter who drives it and the CMax would surprise you.

00 1.6 MX5 ya? And the CMax I assume is the 115bhp? 9.7 sec versus 11.2 sec... don't think I'd be surprised at all to be honest! I've driven the Focus with the same engine, Mk 1 facelift Focus (even lighter than newer Focus, let alone CMAX) and wasn't impressed with the performance aspect anyway. But it's a lot better than the petrol 1.4 or even 1.6.

dr.fuzzenstein

Tea 1000 wrote: »

00 1.6 MX5 ya? And the CMax I assume is the 115bhp? 9.7 sec versus 11.2 sec... don't think I'd be surprised at all to be honest! I've driven the Focus with the same engine, Mk 1 facelift Focus (even lighter than newer Focus, let alone CMAX) and wasn't impressed with the performance aspect anyway. But it's a lot better than the petrol 1.4 or even 1.6.

I told you, one or two horses have escaped the Mazda.
It will need a new middle section of the exhaust including a new cat, the old one seems slightly blocked, but that's a thread for another day.

Tea 1000

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I told you, one or two horses have escaped the Mazda.

The remaining ones must be f**ked too!

September1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Now someone please tell me I should be driving a 5+ liter V8. :rolleyes:

Get 5+ V8 petrol engine - I mean if you travel mostly within city during peak hours. Terrible fuel economy would be fine because you travel short distances only and heavy traffic ensures that you would not be speeding. Otherwise if you commute Kerry to Belfast then get electric car as plenty of miles is plenty of savings - frequent and time-consuming charging will help ensure you do not spend too much time driving. There are no other choices possible :D:D

Tea 1000

Also get an E60 M5. Look at the prices of them! And everyone knows that nothing goes wrong with 9 year old M5's with 100k miles on them, and if something does go wrong, it'll only be pennies to put right because it's an older car! Never mind your diesel Ford thing!

dr.fuzzenstein

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The remaining ones must be f**ked too!

Only fit for Lasagne, dude. :cool:
But no worries, a bit of TLC will see that car right again.