RWC 2015 - Where do we stand ?

schools rugby

Odds for the RWC at the moment are :
New Zealand 6/4
South Africa 4/1
England 9/2
Australia 8/1
France, Ireland, Wales 14/1

As we approach the world cup England would seem to me to be the best placed team to go on and win it. I dont think they have peaked yet and everyone in the squad has bought into what Lancaster is trying to do, they are disciplined, very structured and have a very good goal kicker to boot. Lancaster is to England what Schmidt is to Ireland.

New Zealand as always will go in favorites, they have serious competition for places bar front row. The likes of Dan Carter and Richie McCaw arent guaranteed starters anymore. Think NZ and England will be the two teams heading into the tournament as strong favorites.

South Africa and Ireland probably the next two sides. Dont think there is a lot between SA, Ireland, Australia and Wales. Think the team who peaks at the right time will win it, Australia may be dark horses in my opinion. Wales have a tough group, if they get through the group then they may go all the way.

If i had to say who is going to win it now I would go for England

jprender

Good EW bet for Ireland.

Would it be 1/4 odds to reach a semis ?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I still think NZ and SA are a cut above everyone else. I think England and Ireland can close the gap if they keep key guys fit and continue to improve

schools rugby

jprender wrote: »

Good EW bet for Ireland.

Would it be 1/4 odds to reach a semis ?

Think it says on the website each way pays out 1,2,3 place

thebaz

Ireland have been at best patchy at WC's - hopefully Schmidt puts some consitency in the challenge and we overcome the hoodoo of never having had a great WC - a semi final spot should not beyond the team of 2015

Tox56

I think Australia are building nicely.

Ireland will have to improve a fair bit to have even the faintest glimmer. I think with the return of our top class players and further familiarity with Schmidt that is something we are all counting on, but we actually have to go out and prove it

Journeyman_1

SA @ 4/1 is a surprisingly good price imo. NZ can beat them through their amazing back play, but no other country is gonna find that easy and none can match their pack and physicality.

schools rugby

Would it be fair to say that this will be the most competitive world cup? I amnt old enough to remember anything before 2003 but it seems and there is a host of teams that can win it. NZ,SA,England,Ireland,Australia,Wales could all probably have an arguement in saying that they could win it

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

I think Australia are building nicely.

Ireland will have to improve a fair bit to have even the faintest glimmer. I think with the return of our top class players and further familiarity with Schmidt that is something we are all counting on, but we actually have to go out and prove it

Pool A is crucial. The winner has Scotland or Samoa in a 1/4 final, the loser SA, and then potentially NZ.

I agree that Australia is on the rise. There will always be doubts about their tight 5, but early signs in Super Rugby this season, coupled with AI success make them a definite possibility. They are likely to have an extremely lethal backline, and a very competitive loose forward trio.

Pudsy33

I honestly think its pretty far fetched to say anyone outside of England, SA and NZ have a good shot at it. Australia maybe. Wales Ireland and France would need to improve immeasurably.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I honestly think its pretty far fetched to say anyone outside of England, SA and NZ have a good shot at it. Australia maybe. Wales Ireland and France would need to improve immeasurably.

If we win our group I honestly think we're good enough to beat any side in the world on our day. I think people might be a little to eager to heap praise on England too. They're a good side but I honestly don't see what they have in terms of quality that we don't

Another year under Schmidt and I think we'll have a similar rock solid team ethos too

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

If we win our group I honestly think we're good enough to beat any side in the world on our day. I think people might be a little to eager to heap praise on England too. They're a good side but I honestly don't see what they have in terms of quality that we don't

Another year under Schmidt and I think we'll have a similar rock solid team ethos too

But you have to do it on 3 consecutive weekends (4 if you include the French match). Any side can create an upset, but only the best can do it repeatedly.

Despite last nights effort, I'd still have concern about mental fragility, just like I do with NZ. The teams that traditionally have nerves of steel are SA, Eng and to a lesser extent Australia.

awec

Pudsy33 wrote: »

I honestly think its pretty far fetched to say anyone outside of England, SA and NZ have a good shot at it. Australia maybe. Wales Ireland and France would need to improve immeasurably.

Agree with this. Don't see us as contenders, would be happy to reach a semi.

Stev_o

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

If we win our group I honestly think we're good enough to beat any side in the world on our day. I think people might be a little to eager to heap praise on England too. They're a good side but I honestly don't see what they have in terms of quality that we don't

Another year under Schmidt and I think we'll have a similar rock solid team ethos too

They have home advantage which will help them massively, look at the games they'v lost in the 6N that have decided the championships they were all away games (I think?)

Conas

Don't see how people can think England have a better chance, and are more favourites to win it than us. We can beat England, and we are the the 2014 Six Nations champions, so our odds should be much better than 14/1. We should have beaten NZ. People may see us as outsiders, but I think we are the dark-horse, that if we believe in ourselves we can win the world cup.

Buer

England are at home. That is a massive factor and they're improving every season. They'll be in with a strong chance of winning it.

CatFromHue

It's very hard to call this far out as the season before the RWC year the below teams won the 6N or tri Nations

98 - SA
02 - NZ / Fra
05 - NZ
09 - SA

So no RWC winning team has won their annual international comp in the season before RWC season.

pickarooney

lack of depth at scrum half could be a big problem for England.

its_phil

Swiwi. wrote: »

But you have to do it on 3 consecutive weekends (4 if you include the French match). Any side can create an upset, but only the best can do it repeatedly.

Despite last nights effort, I'd still have concern about mental fragility, just like I do with NZ. The teams that traditionally have nerves of steel are SA, Eng and to a lesser extent Australia.

Well what I would say here is that England didnt exactly show nerves of steel in Paris. I rate England quite highly and I see them getting a semi at the least. But if this WC was being played outside of England, would I be more confident of them doing better than Ireland. Not by much.

I think Ireland and England are two teams capable of beating eachother on any given day. Each as good as the other with where the game being played the main difference. A game at a neutral venue would be fascinating.

clsmooth

CatFromHue wrote: »

It's very hard to call this far out as the season before the RWC year the below teams won the 6N or tri Nations

98 - SA
02 - NZ / Fra
05 - NZ
09 - SA

So no RWC winning team has won their annual international comp in the season before RWC season.

Yep things can change quickly in rugby due to injury/form. Just look at where we were 12 months ago. Impossible to predict this far out. NZ and SA will be a cut above everyone else I think. Ireland, England and Australia are all going in the right direction too and should improve. France and Wales not so. However we've seen Wales have terrible seasons before and come back but there's a lack of quality half backs and with the aging of their props, it would concern me if I was Welsh. Also maybe a new voice is needed in the background. France, well with PSA they will continue to struggle but sure they should have won the last world cup despite being in disarray.

.ak

pickarooney wrote: »

lack of depth at scrum half could be a big problem for England.

Really? Wasn't care 2nd choice last year? Young and Dickson are both top scrum halves, plus you have guys like Simpson on the fringes. I think they have more depth than us. Infact, England with their player pool generally have far more depth in all positions.

Edit oh you meant for us, in England. Never mind then!

its_phil

pickarooney wrote: »

lack of depth at scrum half could be a big problem for England.

Reddan, Boss and Marmion is excellent depth

marc96

In all fairness Ireland weren't even the best team in the 6N,but suddenly people are talking about winning WC??teams in order of who I think would win are....

NZ
SA
ENG
AUS
WALES/IRELAND/FRANCE

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

marc96 wrote: »

In all fairness Ireland weren't even the best team in the 6N,but suddenly people are talking about winning WC??teams in order of who I think would win are....

NZ
SA
ENG
AUS
WALES/IRELAND/FRANCE

that's subjective. I think we were the best side

marc96

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

that's subjective. I think we were the best side

My opinion only mate but to me England were the best team.and they will be a hard team to beat at home in the WC

Pudsy33

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

that's subjective. I think we were the best side

Or we could say that it's in no way subjective, we won the thing.

Without knowing where teams will be next year, if the WC was this summer I'd say a quarter is very likely and a semi doable depending on who we have.

NZ, SA & ENG will be the teams to beat.

I'd be a lot more confident if SOB and Fez were fully fit and available for a finely tuned Schmidt squad.

Next year who knows, look what has happened in 12 months for us. Look at the names now that weren't quite there last year.

awec

.ak wrote: »

Really? Wasn't care 2nd choice last year? Young and Dickson are both top scrum halves, plus you have guys like Simpson on the fringes. I think they have more depth than us. Infact, England with their player pool generally have far more depth in all positions.

Edit oh you meant for us, in England. Never mind then!

England's approach to the 6N this year and last year has given them a pretty decent sized pool of player who have experience of playing test rugby and who are familiar with the international set up.

Depth won't be a problem for England.

Kayless

marc96 wrote: »

My opinion only mate but to me England were the best team.and they will be a hard team to beat at home in the WC

Yes it could be argued that England were the best team in the 6 Nations because they beat the eventual champions, but the final table does not lie they scored less than Ireland overall and conceded more throughout the tournament. They beat Ireland at their HQ by 3 points when the ref should have given Ireland a penalty to even it up at around the 75th mins so my opinion is that England are not a better team than Ireland, rather both teams are on even footing with a lot of players to come back from injury.

.ak

marc96 wrote: »

My opinion only mate but to me England were the best team.and they will be a hard team to beat at home in the WC

I suppose it's a close call. But on the basis we were the more clinical side in attack we scored more and thus won the championship., ergo were the better side.

bilston

marc96 wrote: »

In all fairness Ireland weren't even the best team in the 6N,but suddenly people are talking about winning WC??teams in order of who I think would win are....

NZ
SA
ENG
AUS
WALES/IRELAND/FRANCE

No offence but your attitude (and you are far from alone so please don't take it as a personal dig!) is why we fail to achieve more on a global scale. The English are the opposite and even when they are poor they still back themselves and that's why they have more luck against the SH IMO.

marc96

bilston wrote: »

No offence but your attitude (and you are far from alone so please don't take it as a personal dig!) is why we fail to achieve more on a global scale. The English are the opposite and even when they are poor they still back themselves and that's why they have more luck against the SH IMO.

People are talking about WC finals all over FB and rugby forums,U do realise Ireland have never even made a semi.before people start talking the team up they need to get thru the autumn internationals this year then go from there with their predictions.Every wc we hear how this is Ireland's time....yet never produced??

Rightwing

schools rugby wrote: »

Odds for the RWC at the moment are :
New Zealand 6/4
South Africa 4/1
England 9/2
Australia 8/1
France, Ireland, Wales 14/1

As we approach the world cup England would seem to me to be the best placed team to go on and win it. I dont think they have peaked yet and everyone in the squad has bought into what Lancaster is trying to do, they are disciplined, very structured and have a very good goal kicker to boot. Lancaster is to England what Schmidt is to Ireland.

New Zealand as always will go in favorites, they have serious competition for places bar front row. The likes of Dan Carter and Richie McCaw arent guaranteed starters anymore. Think NZ and England will be the two teams heading into the tournament as strong favorites.

South Africa and Ireland probably the next two sides. Dont think there is a lot between SA, Ireland, Australia and Wales. Think the team who peaks at the right time will win it, Australia may be dark horses in my opinion. Wales have a tough group, if they get through the group then they may go all the way.

If i had to say who is going to win it now I would go for England

Aren't Eng in a tough group, ourselves and Fr look the best value there.

NZs are over priced, it will be an open one, bit surprised really O Driscoll isn't hanging around for it.

its_phil

marc96 wrote: »

People are talking about WC finals all over FB and rugby forums,U do realise Ireland have never even made a semi.before people start talking the team up they need to get thru the autumn internationals this year then go from there with their predictions.Every wc we hear how this is Ireland's time....yet never produced??

You certainly did not hear how this was Ireland's time before the 2011 RWC and even the 2003 RWC.

Also how we performed in previous RWC's is a very minor factor in expectations for this one

pickarooney

I meant for the English team. I don't rate Youngs much and so much of what's good about their play comes from Care's quick thinking and unpredictability. Without him that back line looks much more ordinary. Australia are in a similar boat. when Genia is off form or injured they lose so much. NZ have found a gem at last in Smith but they'll need another one by next year. Weepu dragged them down last time around.

marc96

its_phil wrote: »

You certainly did not hear how this was Ireland's time before the 2011 RWC and even the 2003 RWC.

Also how we performed in previous RWC's is a very minor factor in expectations for this one

Every WC year it's the "golden generation"

Rightwing

marc96 wrote: »

Every WC year it's the "golden generation"

What you say is spot on. But you also have to look at the opposition, and none look to be way out on their own.

bilston

marc96 wrote: »

Every wc we hear how this is Ireland's time....yet never produced??

I don't think we do hear that and actually I'd rather hear more of it to be honest!

WorldRugby99

CatFromHue wrote: »

It's very hard to call this far out as the season before the RWC year the below teams won the 6N or tri Nations

98 - SA
02 - NZ / Fra
05 - NZ
09 - SA

So no RWC winning team has won their annual international comp in the season before RWC season.

interesting statistic-guess its important not too peak too early when winning a world cup and to make sure you hit top form world cup season. Also not winning season before must keep you a/more hungry for success and b/more grounded

marc96

Rightwing wrote: »

What you say is spot on. But you also have to look at the opposition, and none look to be way out on their own.

NZ and SA were unbelievable in the rugby chapionships(actually the whole of 2013). Australia will come into the equation too by 2015

Rightwing

marc96 wrote: »

NZ and SA were unbelievable in the rugby chapionships(actually the whole of 2013). Australia will come into the equation too by 2015

They'll choke, were v lucky to win it at home.

Haven't seen a lot of the boks, but they have ability to time it to perfection.

Judgement Day

Heart says/wants NZ but I reckon it's way too far out to make any serious prediction. The outcome the Rugby Championship this year will give a better idea of where the SH threat is coming from, and I'm not half as optimistic of NZ retaining the RWC as I was this time last year.

I would also be happy with an Irish win - as long as it wasn't against the ABs in the final.

WorldRugby99

.ak wrote: »

I suppose it's a close call. But on the basis we were the more clinical side in attack we scored more and thus won the championship., ergo were the better side.

although you could easily argue ireland had italy and scotland at home and 3 home games in total,so were always more likely to score more points in a tied championship than england.
England probably should have won the Gslam but they made errors in that first game so didnt and ireland won.
Was there much between the sides over the tournament-no. but Ireland were certainly more clinical-england dominated games and struggled to score the tries so on that basis ireland deserved it overall for being that tiny bit more clinical.But england are young and inexperienced and will continue to improve, so i think its justified,particulary with them at twickenham,to have them above ireland as WC contenders.

WallyGUFC

There is absolutely nothing between us and England imo, and I think we have the best coach in the world. Also this "we never perform at WCs" is a rubbish argument. Before 2009, it was "we haven't won the GS in 60 odd years", but we went and did it.

Our problem is consistency, something which I think has improved a lot even since the AI. Joe has another year and a bit with this team until the WC. We have to go in confident.

Tox56

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

although you could easily argue ireland had italy and scotland at home and 3 home games in total,so were always more likely to score more points in a tied championship than england.

And England had Ireland at home, there's a reason they set-up the fixtures the way they do.

corny

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

SA @ 4/1 is a surprisingly good price imo. NZ can beat them through their amazing back play, but no other country is gonna find that easy and none can match their pack and physicality.

I'd say the English can definitely match their physicality

feargale

CatFromHue wrote: »

It's very hard to call this far out as the season before the RWC year the below teams won the 6N or tri Nations
98 - SA
02 - NZ / Fra
05 - NZ
09 - SA
So no RWC winning team has won their annual international comp in the season before RWC season.

Touchee. You won't see France or England going all out for the 6N in 2015. Let's hope Ireland don't make fools of themselves by doing so, shipping injuries on the way, as they've done in the past. There will be other seasons for the 6N. Let Italy have it next year.

WorldRugby99

Tox56 wrote: »

And England had Ireland at home, there's a reason they set-up the fixtures the way they do.

i dont think you get me.Winning the grandslam is obviosuly the best-its means you unbeaten and undisputed champions as you beat everyone.
But in the event of a tied championship surely the year you have more home games(and against the weaker sides) you are more likely to score the points?

England had wales and ireland at home,ireland wales,scotland and italy at home? the opposite would be true next year.The fixtures do actually have a bearing on the title in years there isnt a grandslam. teams teand to score more at home so if you lose say one away game each it matters.

danthefan

CatFromHue wrote: »

It's very hard to call this far out as the season before the RWC year the below teams won the 6N or tri Nations

98 - SA
02 - NZ / Fra
05 - NZ
09 - SA

So no RWC winning team has won their annual international comp in the season before RWC season.

Some of those are two years before a RWC (for example SA won the 3N in 2009, the RWC was in 2011) - and there is a 6N and 3N in the calendar year of the RWC too.

corny

feargale wrote: »

Touchee. You won't see France or England going all out for the 6N in 2015. Let's hope Ireland don't make fools of themselves by doing so, shipping injuries on the way, as they've done in the past. There will be other seasons for the 6N. Let Italy have it next year.

Actually the 6N's has been an important platform for France and England in the past going in the WC.

Think of England in 2003 when they came over here to make a statement. It was vital for their confidence having failed in their previous attempts at the GS.

France won the 6Ns in 2007. Laporte made a big song and dance about how important Clercs try was against us because we were in their group later in the year.

You won't see England, Wales or France hiding next year thats for sure.

danthefan

England also won the 6N in 2011, pre-RWC.