Dublin Bus - should they stop announcements of stops?

Dilisk

The poll is the sole purpose of this post...

Addendum: I see that I botched the wording of the poll. The wording I
intended was: "Should Dublin Bus do away with the automated voice
announcing forthcoming stops?". Please pretend that that really is
the wording.

Gatling

Don't see what the fuss is all about ,my eldest (5) loves the fact they use both and English and Irish for place names been she in an Irish school too

VG31

They should keep the annoucements, but get rid of the Irish ones. There's no need for Irish annoucements in Dublin, it would be different in a Gaeltacht area.

markpb

They're invaluable for anyone who isn't familiar with the route, especially at night when landmarks might not be visible. I can't imagine why anyone would want to remove a useful feature that, finally, puts DB on a par with all the other transport operators in the city.

LXFlyer

VG31 wrote: »

They should keep the annoucements, but get rid of the Irish ones. There's no need for Irish annoucements in Dublin, it would be different in a Gaeltacht area.

The Irish translations are a legal requirement under the Official Languages Act - the merits of that are really something that should be discussed separately.

The introduction of the onboard stop announcements is bringing Dublin into line with public transport (bus and rail) in virtually every other capital city across Europe. It's a useful addition which will blend into the background once you get used to them.

Csalem

It is a good feature for tourists and the visually impaired.

Marhay70

I'm old enough to remember when people would ask bus conductors to call out destinations like railway stations, hospitals, places of interest etc.,it was considered a service and a courtesy.
I think most people on here objecting, probably only have a difficulty with the announcing of place names in Irish and I put that down to their own embarrassment that the language is not more widely spoken or to their own lack of the cúpla focail. The reasons for this are manifold and not likely to be addressed anytime soon but I find this to be a peculiarity of the Dublin commuter belt, in rural areas the animosity is not as apparent.
Given the weekend that's in it, it'll be interesting to see how many of the same people will be happy to adhere to that other Irish stereotype of getting falling down drunk and rolling in their own waste and vomit, without embarrassment.
Before anybody gets the wrong idea, I am not a rabid Gaelgóir, in fact I could probably get by better in France than in the Gaeltacht.

Giuseppe90

definitely a feature to be kept

ArmaniJeanss

I don't quite see the reason for it on 7.45am buses from the suburbs into the city centre. Silence really should be golden on these.

Also for whatever reason they seem (on the routes I use anyway) to have decided not to describe the stops using landmark terms that Irish people use (i.e. pubs and churches) instead using relatively obscure sidestreets that bisect the main route.
So if I gave an instruction to one of these tourists it would be to get off at X pub or X church, yet this won't appear on the announcement.
Example would be St Peters Church, the biggest bloody landmark in Phibsborough and yet it gets called Post Office on the bus announcements.

So a decent idea, but implemented by the usual gormless clowns.

seamus

I was unaware they were doing this. Sounds like a great idea.

I understand the "landmark" argument above, but most tourists will use journey planners and such rather than verbal directions, and the journey planner will direct them to get off at a specific stop. If you tell them to get off at Maguire's pub, that won't match up with anything on their journey planner and will just cause confusion.

LXFlyer

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I don't quite see the reason for it on 7.45am buses from the suburbs into the city centre. Silence really should be golden on these.

Also for whatever reason they seem (on the routes I use anyway) to have decided not to describe the stops using landmark terms that Irish people use (i.e. pubs and churches) instead using relatively obscure sidestreets that bisect the main route.
So if I gave an instruction to one of these tourists it would be to get off at X pub or X church, yet this won't appear on the announcement.
Example would be St Peters Church, the biggest bloody landmark in Phibsborough and yet it gets called Post Office on the bus announcements.

So a decent idea, but implemented by the usual gormless clowns.

You either do this on all buses or not at all. It has to be a standard.

The announcements can only use one line of the stop name due to the time constraint. They originally called both lines, but it was just too long. That means that wehen there are several stops on the same road, they have to use the second line, otherwise they would be calling (in the example above) North Circular Road about 10 times on the 46a in both directions.

Similarly, they can't really have 5 stops called St Peter's Church - they tend to have to be much more specific (bear in mind that there are three stops on the Cabra Road at that location too).

The stop names are all listed on the Dublin Bus website in the RTPI section.

jackofalltrades

Few things I'd like to see them change.

- Drop the "exit by the middle doors" and "hold onto the handrails announcements".
They hardly ever use the middle doors on the routes that I take. And if you don't know that handrails support you then you probably shouldn't be on bus to start with.

- Use someone with a more softer tone to do the announcements. The current announcers tone sounds like the one mothers use to give out to their children

- Drop the Irish announcements, they make every announcement twice as long and are completely unnecessary, only a tiny fraction of Dublin Bus users can understand them. (Yes I am aware of the legislative changes required to achieve this.)

- Stop using location names that no one in the locality uses

- Start listing stops where you can transfer to other forms of public transport
eg. Luas, a bus that takes you to the airport

- And as someone else said, get rid of them/turn them down on early morning buses

ArmaniJeanss

lxflyer wrote: »

You either do this on all buses or not at all. It has to be a standard.

Why does it have to be a standard, lots of things on Dublin Bus aren't standardised. No reason whatsoever that they can't just switch off the announcements on incoming commuter routes before 8.30 or 9am.
Its ridiculous that DB are now a major noise disruptor for the poor commuting souls on a Monday morning.

lxflyer wrote: »

The announcements can only use one line of the stop name due to the time constraint. They originally called both lines, but it was just too long. That means that wehen there are several stops on the same road, they have to use the second line, otherwise they would be calling (in the example above) North Circular Road about 10 times on the 46a in both directions.

I do agree its not an easy thing they are doing. Interestingly if you travel the 39A route along you'll find there are actually 3 or 4 stops called 'Navan Road'.

lxflyer wrote: »

Similarly, they can't really have 5 stops called St Peter's Church - they tend to have to be much more specific (bear in mind that there are three stops on the Cabra Road at that location too).

I genuinely don't see why the five stops adjacent to SPC can't all be called St Peters Church, all these stops (for the 46a,122 and 38) are within 10 metres of the church. Is this not just obvious and logical?

LXFlyer

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Why does it have to be a standard, lots of things on Dublin Bus aren't standardised. No reason whatsoever that they can't just switch off the announcements on incoming commuter routes before 8.30 or 9am.
Its ridiculous that DB are now a major noise disruptor for the poor commuting souls on a Monday morning.

With something like this, it should be implemented it on all services or not at all. I know of no operator that partially implements onboard stop announcements, that's just daft.

Frankly, you will blot them out as you get used to them, but there is nothing to say that there won't be people on inbound journeys that are not familiar with a route.

It's hardly a "major noise disruptor". I've managed to listen to spoken word podcasts perfectly well without the announcements disrupting them.

LordSutch

Obviously for several reasons its a great help to have the next stop announced (in English). Not sure that there's any need for DB to complicate the announcements by announcing them in Irish too. T'would be nice to have Irish announcements on Galway/Gaelteacht buses

LXFlyer

jackofalltrades wrote: »

- Drop the Irish announcements, they make every announcement twice as long and are completely unnecessary, only a tiny fraction of Dublin Bus users can understand them. (Yes I am aware of the legislative changes required to achieve this.)

LordSutch wrote: »

Obviously for several reasons its a great help to have the next stop announced (in English). Not sure that there's any need for DB to complicate the announcements by announcing them in Irish too. T'would be nice to have Irish announcements on Galway/Gaelteacht buse.s

I think we have to be cognisant of the fact that this is a legal requirement, whether people like it or not.

Suffice to say I know of no party in the Oireachtas that has expressed (or indeed is likely to express) a view that the Official Languages Act should be repealed. It isn't going to happen. Official State policy across all political parties is that Irish should be promoted equally to English.

Therefore, I think people have to accept that the Irish language element is there to stay, whether they think it useful or not.

I've no affiliation with any of the Irish language lobby, but I do realise that no political party is going to abandon the state policy on the language anytime soon.

To be fair, the announcements were reversed to be in English first and Irish second, which makes them far more useful than they were initially, when the English announcements were being cut off - they were too long as they were announcing both lines of the stop name.

jackofalltrades

lxflyer wrote: »

Frankly, you will blot them out as you get used to them...

I think the fact that people are on here saying that the announcements are annoying disproves the "you'll just blot it out/get used to it" theory.
Noise pollution is something that causes a lot of annoyance for people.

It's hardly a "major noise disruptor". I've managed to listen to spoken word podcasts perfectly well without the announcements disrupting them.

So it doesn't disrupt you because you physically block it out.
Some people appreciate the piece and quiet that you used to get sometimes on buses.
And are annoyed by this piece and quiet disappearing due to unnecessary announcements.

LXFlyer

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I think the fact that people are on here saying that the announcements are annoying disproves the "you'll just blot it out/get used to it" theory.
Noise pollution is something that causes a lot of annoyance for people.


So it doesn't disrupt you because you physically block it out.
Some people appreciate the piece and quiet that you used to get sometimes on buses.
And are annoyed by this piece and quiet disappearing due to unnecessary announcements.

Well having travelled quite a bit around Europe, these sort of announcements are now fairly standard across all modes of public transport in capital (and indeed other) cities, and have been for some time.

That's why I am somewhat bemused by these threads, as I fail to see how we in Dublin are any different to citizens of all the other cities.

People elsewhere have managed to live with them, and recognise that they do provide a useful service.

The fact is that they are still relatively new here, and (like anything) it will take a while for people to get used to them.

jackofalltrades

lxflyer wrote: »

Suffice to say I know of no party in the Oireachtas that has expressed (or indeed is likely to express) a view that the Official Languages Act should be repealed.

I'm not asking for it to be repealed.
I asking for it to be amended to make it optional for transport providers to have their announcements in both languages.
This would allow more practical solutions, while still allowing for accommodating passengers that want to hear the announcements in Irish.

To be fair, the announcements were reversed to be in English first and Irish second, which makes them far more useful than they were initially, when the English announcements were being cut off - they were too long as they were announcing both lines of the stop name.

I don't consider that being fair, I consider that righting a ridiculous situation.

LXFlyer

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I'm not asking for it to be repealed.
I asking for it to be amended to make it optional for transport providers to have their announcements in both languages.
This would allow more practical solutions, while still allowing for accommodating passengers that want to hear the announcements in Irish.

I just don't see that happening though - this is exactly the sort of thing that the OLA was designed to encourage to be honest, whether we agree with it or not.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I don't consider that being fair, I consider that righting a ridiculous situation.

Look with anything like this, there are going to be teething issues - the announcements were trialled on three routes, and the result is what we have now, one line of each stop name announced in English first and then Irish.

jackofalltrades

lxflyer wrote: »

.. this is exactly the sort of thing that the OLA was designed to encourage to be honest...

I don't understand the point your trying to make with this.

Look with anything like this, there are going to be teething issues - the announcements were trialled on three routes, and the result is what we have now, one line of each stop name announced in English first and then Irish.

I've nothing against teething problems.
I do have something against having English first and Irish second, seen as some sort of accommodation or act of fairness.

Ann Landers

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I think the fact that people are on here saying that the announcements are annoying disproves the "you'll just blot it out/get used to it" theory.

They used to annoy me, now I don't even notice them, and I'm not even having to try to block them out. They just wash over me.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

And are annoyed by this piece and quiet disappearing due to unnecessary announcements.

They're not unnecessary, they're very useful, except maybe the ones reminding you to hold the handrail and such like.

Lifelike

Maybe keep the stop announcements, but get rid of the other announcements. I don't need to be reminded twice every morning that smoking is forbidden on buses! Also, the volume on some buses needs to be turned down a little

killbillvol2

Announcements in two languages are common in major cities all over the world. Usually the local language and English.

A minority of whingers on here shouldn't obscure the fact that it's a pretty standard and very useful addition to public transport.

Mrs OBumble

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Also for whatever reason they seem (on the routes I use anyway) to have decided not to describe the stops using landmark terms that Irish people use (i.e. pubs and churches) instead using relatively obscure sidestreets that bisect the main route.

Sounds like a good initiative to teach you the names of the streets in your neighbourhood. Which is a kind of useful skill if you have to call an ambulance or somesuch.

Victor

VG31 wrote: »

They should keep the annoucements, but get rid of the Irish ones. There's no need for Irish annoucements in Dublin, it would be different in a Gaeltacht area.

But Dublin is the largest Gaeltacht in the country!

Victor

killbillvol2 wrote: »

A minority of whingers

Play nice

Moderator

Ann Landers

Lifelike wrote: »

Maybe keep the stop announcements, but get rid of the other announcements. I don't need to be reminded twice every morning that smoking is forbidden on buses! Also, the volume on some buses needs to be turned down a little

Yeah, totally. I reckon they just have those announcements to cover themselves.

Love the stop announcements though.

LXFlyer

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I don't understand the point your trying to make with this.

The point I was making was that the whole point of the OLA (as I understand it) is to try and make Irish more relevant in our daily lives. On board announcements on public transport would be part of that I would suggest. Now whether the OLA achieves that aim is another matter, which frankly is for discussion elsewhere.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I've nothing against teething problems.
I do have something against having English first and Irish second, seen as some sort of accommodation or act of fairness.

The point I was making here (when I used the words "to be fair") was that DB, having trialled the announcements, were prepared to make changes to them to increase their usefulness and practicality. Shortening them significantly and switching from Irish first to English first did precisely that, as the original announcements were far too long and unwieldy.

Tristram

Unless the announcements are incredibly loud I don't know why anyone would object. It's really positive to read that such steps are being taken to raise the quality of the service.

Gael23

I think it's quite useful for tourists or those not too familiar with Dublin. That way you don't have worry about getting off at the wrong stop if you are unsure where exactly to go.

GaelMise

Mr.S wrote: »

Legal Requirement it may be, but the Irish ones are really annoying! As well as the NO SMOKING ones

Why would you find the passive use of a minority language native to this country annoying? Perhaps a little bit of tolerance and an open mind would not go amiss.

JCX BXC

Its great to have them in irish! People are seriously losing their pride......

That username is already in use.

They should get rid of the English. People would get used to the Irish names after a while, that's if they haven't already.

JCX BXC

Mr.S wrote: »

Legal Requirement it may be, but the Irish ones are really annoying! As well as the NO SMOKING ones

In your Opinion, I find them nice.
Isn't it nice to have a language exclusive to Ireland?

Marhay70

Mr.S wrote: »

Legal Requirement it may be, but the Irish ones are really annoying! As well as the NO SMOKING ones

Why do they annoy you?

ordinary_girl

They're definitely good, but like other people have said they're a pain during the morning commute. There are no confused tourists on a 7am bus from Tallaght to town that need every street name called out. Even if they had quieter announcements in the morning, for some reason it's much more grating in the morning that any other time.

Also, has anyone noticed when the announcement for Phibsborough Road is called the "Bothar Bhaile Phib" part sounds really sing-songy?

hfallada

But has anyone noticed that after while you dont notice them. Its like living on a railway track. When you first move into the house you constantly hear the train. But after a week or two dont notice it at all. Like when you use the emergency exit on the NYC subway you set off an alarm that is 80DB(extremely loud), but everyone is used to the noise and doesnt look twice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlHHydS0OVQ

I do find the made up Irish names for some areas to be ridiculous. Like Charleston in Finglas and Santry Cross in Ballymun. Both of which are names given by developers to the areas.

I'm one of the most anti-Irish language people out there but the Dublin Bus announcements actually don't bother me for the most part. They could do away with the fluff, such as the "no smoking", "always use a handrail" and "exit via centre doors" announcements but other than that it's harmless. Has helped me out on some unknown routes when I didn't really know where to get off.

Greenmachine

No problem with these announcements here.

GTE

Great idea to have the stop announcements and in Irish too.

JCX BXC

Okay anyone in favor of getting rid of the announcements, imagine going to new york.
Get on the subway and you want to get off at a certain address, but no announcements. It is easy miss.

Tourism is one of the things that is driving Ireland. Refusing that is like ripping up €50 of your yearly wages.
Unless your a politician, it would bother you doing that.

As for the irish announcements, get a bit of pride.

ArmaniJeanss

Carnacalla wrote: »

Its great to have them in irish! People are seriously losing their pride......

Carnacalla wrote: »

As for the irish announcements, get a bit of pride.

I get pissed off at this idea that being anti-Gaeilge is a sign of some lack of pride in the country.
Like with the height of respect who the hell are you to decide what makes anyone a proud Irish person or not?

Personally I take my Irish pride in the achievements on the world stage of the likes of Ken Doherty, Rory McIlroy, Aiden O'Brien, Robbie Keane, U2, Aiden Gillen, Daniel Day Lewis, etc or the achievements of the country as a whole, our welcoming and friendliness, our peacekeepers abroad, our willingness to travel and broaden our horizons. Hundreds of other things.

If I'd happily see the language die (and I would) then that doesn't mean I lack anything in pride.

JCX BXC

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I get pissed off at this idea that being anti-Gaeilge is a sign of some lack of pride in the country.
Like with the height of respect who the hell are you to decide what makes anyone a proud Irish person or not?

Personally I take my Irish pride in the achievements on the world stage of the likes of Ken Doherty, Rory McIlroy, Aiden O'Brien, Robbie Keane, U2, Aiden Gillen, Daniel Day Lewis, etc or the achievements of the country as a whole, our welcoming and friendliness, our peacekeepers abroad, our willingness to travel and broaden our horizons. Hundreds of other things.

If I'd happily see the language die (and I would) then that doesn't mean I lack anything in pride.

I have to disagree strongly with you.
Being anti-gaeilge lacks national pride, no second thought about.
I am not saying you have none, but it shows a lack
What I am saying is you have no pride in the irish language, which takes away from your pride. Its simple.

There is nothing wrong with disliking the language or even hating it, but saying that you would happily see the language die is going too far. And Many will probably agree.

Marhay70

It's sad to hear people say they wouldn't care if the language died. Language is what distinguishes you from the rest and binds you to your own people.
Unfortunately the way Irish is taught in our schools and the pressure to get results in it have alienated many people, it needs to be taught in a more informal and conversational way so it becomes second nature.
Ironically it was reported in the press a while back that demand for tuition in Irish is at an unprecedentedly high level in Loyalist areas of Belfast, Gaelic was the spoken language here until the eighteenth century but, like most of the country, fell out of use. It could turn out to be a unifying factor among the people there.

JCX BXC

Marhay70 wrote: »

It's sad to hear people say they wouldn't care if the language died. Language is what distinguishes you from the rest and binds you to your own people.
Unfortunately the way Irish is taught in our schools and the pressure to get results in it have alienated many people, it needs to be taught in a more informal and conversational way so it becomes second nature.
Ironically it was reported in the press a while back that demand for tuition in Irish is at an unprecedentedly high level in Loyalist areas of Belfast, Gaelic was the spoken language here until the eighteenth century but, like most of the country, fell out of use. It could turn out to be a unifying factor among the people there.

What we should do is remove the English out of any signs, place names and anything possible and force people to speak irish

Marhay70

Carnacalla wrote: »

What we should do is remove the English out of any signs, place names and anything possible and force people to speak irish

I assume that's a tongue in cheek remark, it's thinking like that which has caused the animosity towards Irish.

markpb

Marhay70 wrote: »

It's sad to hear people say they wouldn't care if the language died. Language is what distinguishes you from the rest and binds you to your own people.

I fail to understand how a language that almost no one speaks day to day binds us together. Would it be more truthful to say that the collective pretense that we have a national language other than English is what binds us together?

No other country pretends to speak Irish like we do and maybe that's what makes us Irish. We put it on all the road signs and all the public transport displays. All mass communication from the government comes in two parts: one that everyone reads and one that three people read to make sure it's there.

jackofalltrades

Carnacalla wrote:

Being anti-gaeilge lacks national pride, no second thought about.
I am not saying you have none, but it shows a lack
What I am saying is you have no pride in the irish language, which takes away from your pride. Its simple.

You use the word pride, but I think the word you really want to use is Irishness. I think what you really seem to be saying is:

What I am saying is you have no pride in the irish language, which takes away from your Irishness. Its simple.

Marhay70 wrote: »

Language is what distinguishes you from the rest...

I think for a lot of people the rest is British culture.
They feel the Irish language is the last thing between them and being labelled a "west brit".
They seem to have a sense of cultural inferiority, and they focus too much on the language and don't seem to see all the many other things that make us Irish and that they can take pride in.
And that our language is not the only thing that differentiates us from other cultures.

VG31

I was on a GT today. I heard an announcement when the bus was at a bus stop that I had never heard before. It went something like; "Please refrain from smoking or drinking on the bus" (and then the same in Irish). The next-stop display didn't show the announcement.

ArmaniJeanss

The addition of extra messages beyond the 'next stop' announcements is a bug bear of mine with this - Seems that someone in DB now realises they have a captive audience (I'm guessing drivers are under instruction to keep the thing switched on at all times, though thankfully a small handful on my route seem to be rebels and switch it off) for whatever spiel they choose to put on their new toy.

So this morning as well as the usual talk about cigarettes and e-cigs we had 'please do not disturb the driver, and stand behind the white line' followed a few minutes later by 'please remember to hold the hand rail at all times whilst standing or moving on the bus'.
All blared at Max11 on the volume scale.