Beef Genomics Scheme

ITFarmer

Hi All,

With the Beef Genomics Scheme (BGS) you get €40 for all calves born in your herd in 2014, less the cost of the geno-typing.

What is the cost of the geno-typing?

The 'less cost of geno-typing' maybe a trivial cost but highlighting it may help to fully inform any readers.

blue5000

Haven't looked into it yet but I think it's 60 yoyo for the kit. Haven't opened the yellow post that I got from the dept. this week yet:( When do we have to apply?

Farrell

blue5000 wrote: »

Haven't looked into it yet but I think it's 60 yoyo for the kit. Haven't opened the yellow post that I got from the dept. this week yet:( When do we have to apply?

Must be done by the end of the month.
That's allot for a kit, hopefully it'll do more tan 1 animal

J.O. Farmer

Farrell wrote: »

Must be done by the end of the month.
That's allot for a kit, hopefully it'll do more tan 1 animal

When they say kit it sounds fancy.
Reality it will be something similar to the tissue sample tag for BVD or a card with some sticky tape to hold some hair.
I think the kit will only do 1 or maybe 2 at the €60. Genotyping is not cheap. The only thing is I don't think all animals need to be done.

mikeoh

The AA society are genotyping all bull calves and it is costing the farmer€10 to send off the hair sample but there is a grant to refund it!!

biddy2013

mikeoh wrote: »

The AA society are genotyping all bull calves and it is costing the farmer€10 to send off the hair sample but there is a grant to refund it!!

ye , they where also looking for heifers too

blue5000

Had a quick look while I was chewing the corn flakes,

• 40 yoyo per calf, except twins. no mention of what it costs, it will be deducted from the payment at the end.
• We can apply on line. if you want to read the terms and conditions you will need your glasses and or a magnifying glass! oh and you have to be in btap to apply for it,
• closing date 4/4/14.
• Payment date 30/4/15 for calves born before nov 14.

Round Bale

blue5000 wrote: »

Had a quick look while I was chewing the corn flakes,

• 40 yoyo per calf, except twins. no mention of what it costs, it will be deducted from the payment at the end.
• We can apply on line. if you want to read the terms and conditions you will need your glasses and or a magnifying glass! oh and you have to be in btap to apply for it,
• closing date 4/4/14.
• Payment date 30/4/15 for calves born before nov 14.

I thought you had to be in the beef data thingy, not the BTAP thingy!!!
Something tells me I read somewhere the testing costs €25.
I looked online last night and couldn't find application thingy?
Anyway I must stick the thingy for spreading fertilizer on the tractor, and put up a thirst for a few beekers tonight.

mikeoh

biddy2013 wrote: »

ye , they where also looking for heifers too

I think heifers optional not being processed (no charge anyway) just kept on file for future reference but bulls compulsory........but I'm sure there will be a well justified price hike now that it is going nationwide!!!!!!

biddy2013

mikeoh wrote: »

I think heifers optional not being processed (no charge anyway) just kept on file for future reference but bulls compulsory........but I'm sure there will be a well justified price hike now that it is going nationwide!!!!!!

ye we had to do a retest on one the other day for some reason

ITFarmer

Example:
Assume you have 10 cows. From a finance perspective, what will you get doing Beef Genomics Scheme?

Assume Dept of Agri. tell you to get samples from 3 cows.

Assume you have 10 calves in 2014.

10 calves X €40 = €400

Less cost of geno-typing €90
(€30 X 3 samples)

What you get = €310


This is just focusing on the Beef Genomics, but if you are doing the Beef Genomics scheme then I think by default you have to do the Beef Data program. With the beef data program you (think) get €20 per calf.

Note: Less cost of geno-typing = €30 per sample; I found this info on the back the application form for Beef Data and Beef Genomics scheme.

As always don't just assume with your reading is correct and feel free to point out any mistakes.

Bellview

biddy2013 wrote: »

ye , they where also looking for heifers too

Heifers are free though. The irish angus soc are paying towards costs of gen also. I believe some of the other ped breed soc are questioning the value of gen and are looking at pulling away from the program.

biddy2013

Bellview wrote: »

Heifers are free though. The irish angus soc are paying towards costs of gen also. I believe some of the other ped breed soc are questioning the value of gen and are looking at pulling away from the program.

i just took the samples my dad posted them and paid if it had to be paid

jfh

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

When they say kit it sounds fancy.
Reality it will be something similar to the tissue sample tag for BVD or a card with some sticky tape to hold some hair.
I think the kit will only do 1 or maybe 2 at the €60. Genotyping is not cheap. The only thing is I don't think all animals need to be done.

From what I can see, example 3 cows & bull in 20 cow herd
30 euros per sample so 120 euro for genotype.

cuculainn

So would it be €40 for genomtyping + €20 for BDP = €60

if for example 10 cows that would be 600 - cost of kit (2 cows in ten)

€510 total??

blue5000

Just wondering if lads who were a bit ahem, economical with the truth in the past going to be tripped up with this Anybody ring enfer, (or whoever tests for it) yet to find out what it costs for definite?

Round Bale

I wonder what the feed back will be on an individual farmer basis?
Let's say, I have the bull and three cows tested.
What kind of info do I get back, which is usefull in making future breeding decisions, regarding the cows in particular.
Lets assume I know exctly the parentage of the cows, as they were all home bred replacements, and I am satisfied that my record keeping for past 3 or 4 generations is spot on.
What can this genomics test tell me that I dont already know?

Round Bale

Got the paper application in the post yesterday. It mentions in the detail description of the scheme, that you can apply online through Agfood.

However, I cannot locate the online application link of applet on Agfood?

Anybody else tried doing an online application?

towzer2010

Round Bale wrote: »

Got the paper application in the post yesterday. It mentions in the detail description of the scheme, that you can apply online through Agfood.

However, I cannot locate the online application link of applet on Agfood?

Anybody else tried doing an online application?

I was looking for it on agfood yesterday but cant see it either

manjou

towzer2010 wrote: »

I was looking for it on agfood yesterday but cant see it either

Rang agfood this morning and they said it will be up in a few days.

Bodacious

manjou wrote: »

Rang agfood this morning and they said it will be up in a few days.

Safer to whack off the yellow form .. April 4th deadline only round the corner plus I applied for beef data by ticking box on online SFP application and they still contacted me with a form as they required a paper signature to agree terms

art

Lads, I talked to a lady in Portlaoise office who says it was put up there this morning, can you still not see it?

Round Bale

art wrote: »

Lads, I talked to a lady in Portlaoise office who says it was put up there this morning, can you still not see it?

No, just tried again. No joy.
Last year the Beef Data Scheme application was under the SFP application module.
You had to scroll down to bottom of page, and click a box. Job done.
Not there this year.

ITFarmer

Yeah, I agree (Bodacious: post #21) best to use yellow paper application form.

In general would people on forum think the Beef Genomics scheme is worth it?

Benefits:
Getting money for doing scheme sometime in 2015
Getting information about your herd

Costs:
Money needed to get samples tested
Labour - work involved in actually getting the samples etc
Paperwork
Making sure you meet all the conditions
Potential for penalties, farm inspection...

Taking example of 10 cow herd with 10 calves in 2014:
Benefits:
Using all the assumptions;
Think you will get €600 and information about your herd

Costs:
Testing samples: €90 (Therefore, €600 subtract €90 = €510 in back pocket)
Labour
Paperwork
Conditions

reilig

Sources from the inside tell me that it is up and running on the agfood site now.

Happy applying lads!

Round Bale

reilig wrote: »

Sources from the inside tell me that it is up and running on the agfood site now.

Happy applying lads!

Just did it. 10 seconds. :cool:

893bet

anyone else getting this?

500 Internal Server Error

Servlet error: An exception occurred. The current application deployment descriptors do not allow for including it in this response. Please consult the applica

cuculainn

893bet wrote: »

anyone else getting this?

500 Internal Server Error

Servlet error: An exception occurred. The current application deployment descriptors do not allow for including it in this response. Please consult the applica

yeah that happened me too, tried it a few times and eventually worked

manjou

ITFarmer wrote: »

Yeah, I agree (Bodacious: post #21) best to use yellow paper application form.

In general would people on forum think the Beef Genomics scheme is worth it?

Benefits:
Getting money for doing scheme sometime in 2015
Getting information about your herd

Costs:
Money needed to get samples tested
Labour - work involved in actually getting the samples etc
Paperwork
Making sure you meet all the conditions
Potential for penalties, farm inspection...

Taking example of 10 cow herd with 10 calves in 2014:
Benefits:
Using all the assumptions;
Think you will get €600 and information about your herd

Costs:
Testing samples: €90 (Therefore, €600 subtract €90 = €510 in back pocket)
Labour
Paperwork
Conditions

Also you have to be in btap so you will have to pay teagasc or consultant as facilator which could be 400+ so you may only end up with 100

Round Bale

manjou wrote: »

Also you have to be in btap so you will have to pay teagasc or consultant as facilator which could be 400+ so you may only end up with 100

No. You don't have to be in BTAP.
You have to be in the beef data program.
Different thing. No cost involved.

manjou

Round Bale wrote: »

No. You don't have to be in BTAP.
You have to be in the beef data program.
Different thing. No cost involved.

Appologies read it wrong on form

Bigbird1

Lads I want to sign up to agfood, is it a free service?

GrandSoftDay

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Lads I want to sign up to agfood, is it a free service?

It is indeed, you won't regret it. Keeps the herd register up to date automatically and a lot handier for registering calves, applying for sfp etc.

Round Bale

manjou wrote: »

Appologies read it wrong on form

No bother. But like you if I had to join BTAP, I wouldn't bother with it.
Nothing against BTAP other than as a part time farmer, I just don't have the time for it. Time off for farm walks etc, not possible for me.

Farrell

Round Bale wrote: »

No bother. But like you if I had to join BTAP, I wouldn't bother with it.
Nothing against BTAP other than as a part time farmer, I just don't have the time for it. Time off for farm walks etc, not possible for me.

Depends on circumstances, 8-5 here, meetings are 7-8.30, only need to do 6 out of 8 per year, but open days count.
Was doing some of tasks already, but do find them beneficial.
Each to their own

jfh

Farrell wrote: »

Depends on circumstances, 8-5 here, meetings are 7-8.30, only need to do 6 out of 8 per year, but open days count.
Was doing some of tasks already, but do find them beneficial.
Each to their own

That's handy that meeting are on in the evening, seen as most of the lads are part time, makes sense.

moy83

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Lads I want to sign up to agfood, is it a free service?

It is . I signed up last week . Its easier than kingswood I was using before

pconno

Hi Folks,
Just been looking at the small print of this BGS scheme.
"ICBF will select the most appropriate animals in each herd to be genotyped, and send this list of animals to each herdowner. At least 15% of the herd will be selected for genotyping. The applicant will be informed of the number of animals selected and selected animals by the Irish Cattle Breeding Federation."

My reading is that we could be asked to genotype more than the 15% at the discretion of the ICBF so could cost a lot more. Anyone any ideas??

bogman_bass

Round Bale wrote: »

No bother. But like you if I had to join BTAP, I wouldn't bother with it.
Nothing against BTAP other than as a part time farmer, I just don't have the time for it. Time off for farm walks etc, not possible for me.

you wouldn't be able to anyways. They aren't taking new entrents

reilig

bogman_bass wrote: »

you wouldn't be able to anyways. They aren't taking new entrents

We have a couple of new people in our group for 2014

towzer2010

bogman_bass wrote: »

you wouldn't be able to anyways. They aren't taking new entrents

reilig wrote: »

We have a couple of new people in our group for 2014

Our facilitator told us the same thing and that with dropouts it might mean an increase in the final payment. Looks like that's out the window so.

bogman_bass

reilig wrote: »

We have a couple of new people in our group for 2014

are they getting payment though?

reilig

bogman_bass wrote: »

are they getting payment though?

Yes. One of them is my neighbour. He would not be doing it if he wasn't going to be getting a payment!

bogman_bass

Hmm. Then Teagasc have some questions to answer to me so!

tanko

A few new lads in my group this year too.

bogman_bass

Tanko, Rellig. Are ye is Teagasc groups?

tanko

bogman_bass wrote: »

Tanko, Rellig. Are ye is Teagasc groups?

I'm with a group run by a private consultant.

reilig

bogman_bass wrote: »

Tanko, Rellig. Are ye is Teagasc groups?

Teagasc Group.

The Mrs is in a Teagasc group and her group was told that there wasn't space in the group to take any new people.

Bodacious

not me .. before I get slated.


but few lads I know that get bulls from a fella for 5-6 weeks, no test, no movement cert,, in bull the cows and pass him back or to the next fella are wondering if the Beef Genomics scheme will catch them out.


EEEeerr yeah would be my opinion! they will have no ai dockets and theyre traceable I think!


bull shouldn't be there at any cost with out a TB BR test prior to entering and leaving the herd.. they would be just asking for a Department visit by giving his tag number as sire of 10 calves??!!

bogman_bass

Get the owner to "sell" the bull to him. move him from one herd number to the other.

Sorted!

Round Bale

bogman_bass wrote: »

Get the owner to "sell" the bull to him. move him from one herd number to the other.

Sorted!

That's ok going forward. ..... maybe??

BUT, what about fellas with say a few cows in their herd, which came off a neighbours herd bull. This lad has one or two of those cows selected by ICBF for genomic test!
Neighbour has his bull genomic tested!

The auld computer in ICBF will have a field day, matching fellas AI bred cows, with neighbours bulls!!!!