Phone App devemopment

skulltown

Hey,

Guys I was thinking of designing and app for my phone nothing special just want to try something with GPS tracking. I have some experience in Java, SQL, HTML, CSS, JavaScript. I just need a starting point. As in development software, Books, Technology's.

Thanks

BrokenArrows

skulltown wrote: »

Hey,

Guys I was thinking of designing and app for my phone nothing special just want to try something with GPS tracking. I have some experience in Java, SQL, HTML, CSS, JavaScript. I just need a starting point. As in development software, Books, Technology's.

Thanks

There are countless tutorials online. Google.

Boskowski

Don't know Android but I believe its Java there. IOS you need objective c and the SDK and libraries (Xcode) to get at such system functions.

I bought the Apple developer subscription for a year and its pretty awesome as a developer resource and actually not that expensive, a little over €100. It gives you access to the tools, specs, documentation, tutorials, examples.

oscarBravo

Boskowski wrote: »

Don't know Android but I believe its Java there.

It is.

I bought the Apple developer subscription for a year and its pretty awesome as a developer resource and actually not that expensive, a little over €100. It gives you access to the tools, specs, documentation, tutorials, examples.

Wow. Access to the tools, specs, documentation, tutorials and examples for Android costs... nothing.

skulltown

So what your saying Xcode is for iOS will I need a Mac aswell or can I use the codeX on my windows desktop is it java based

Graham

skulltown wrote: »

So what your saying Xcode is for iOS will I need a Mac aswell or can I use the codeX on my windows desktop is it java based

You will need a Mac, xcode is written for Mac OS X.

Tar.Aldarion

yeah you would need a mac, so I'd stay clear and do android tbh. No cost to entry over things you will already have.

BrokenArrows

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

yeah you would need a mac, so I'd stay clear and do android tbh. No cost to entry over things you will already have.

And even if you don't have an android you can pickup a basic one for nothing.

oscarBravo

BrokenArrows wrote: »

And even if you don't have an android you can pickup a basic one for nothing.

...and in the meantime, test on the free emulator.

jester77

You should setup VM acceleration if using the default emulator or have a look at genymotion, it's more performant than the default emulator.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Boskowski wrote: »

I bought the Apple developer subscription for a year and its pretty awesome as a developer resource and actually not that expensive, a little over €100. It gives you access to the tools, specs, documentation, tutorials, examples.

Reminds me of this:

jgh_

oscarBravo wrote: »

It is. Wow. Access to the tools, specs, documentation, tutorials and examples for Android costs... nothing.

To be fair, the iOS tools and documentation are a lot better than the Android tools and documentation.

Colonel Panic

You get access to iOS dev tools without paying the fee. The fee is required to debug apps on a physical device and publish them on the AppStore. Don't you need to pay for that on Android too?

srsly78

jgh_ wrote: »

To be fair, the iOS tools and documentation are a lot better than the Android tools and documentation.

To be fair, nooooo they aren't :pac: Not running on a pc is the first garbage thing about them.

Colonel Panic

Well that settles it!

Tar.Aldarion

Colonel Panic wrote: »

You get access to iOS dev tools without paying the fee. The fee is required to debug apps on a physical device and publish them on the AppStore. Don't you need to pay for that on Android too?

I don't publish my apps so I don't know but you don't need to pay to use it on any device

oscarBravo

jgh_ wrote: »

To be fair, the iOS tools and documentation are a lot better than the Android tools and documentation.

I haven't seen the iOS tools and documentation (I have zero interest in iOS development), but the Android tools work pretty well and are cross-platform, and the documentation is superb.

Colonel Panic wrote: »

You get access to iOS dev tools without paying the fee. The fee is required to debug apps on a physical device and publish them on the AppStore. Don't you need to pay for that on Android too?

Nope.

jester77

oscarBravo wrote: »

Nope.

Perhaps he is thinking of the initial $25 fee for the Google Play Developer Console account.

The only reason that is there is to stop people spamming across multiple accounts.

Colonel Panic

oscarBravo wrote: »

Nope.

To which bit?

oscarBravo

Colonel Panic wrote: »

To which bit?

It was to both, but I'd forgotten about the one-off $25. Still seems like better value than $99 a year.

Colonel Panic

So you're saying you don't get access to the ios docs without paying a fee?

Tar.Aldarion

He was talking about using it on a real device as the second one.

jgh_

Without paying, you can get access to Xcode, current documentation, and run your apps on the simulator.

With the $99 fee you are able to build and run on device, you get access to betas and beta documentation, you get access to developer forums, you get access to technical support tickets, and you are able to submit to the app store.

Ultimately the price is a bit of a deterrent, but it's not really that much money.

The_B_Man

This of course isnt counting in the 1500 or so for a good MacBook.

The Corinthian

The_B_Man wrote: »

This of course isnt counting in the 1500 or so for a good MacBook.

This is the deterrent for me. I've no intention of switching to Mac as I need a PC running windows for much of my work (and play for that matter) and shelling out that amount of money simply for iOS development is just ridiculous.

Now, I could turn around and hack some sort of dual boot Windows/iOS setup, but other than the hassle of this, I start running into problems if I want to have the option to boot up into Linux as well. Way, way too much hassle, just to code in something that's losing market share, TBH.

jgh_

Macbooks (at least in my opinion) are totally worth the money, even if you remove OS X and install Windows or Linux on them.

moycullen14

The Corinthian wrote: »

This is the deterrent for me. I've no intention of switching to Mac as I need a PC running windows for much of my work (and play for that matter) and shelling out that amount of money simply for iOS development is just ridiculous.

Now, I could turn around and hack some sort of dual boot Windows/iOS setup, but other than the hassle of this, I start running into problems if I want to have the option to boot up into Linux as well. Way, way too much hassle, just to code in something that's losing market share, TBH.

I have a 2009 MacBook bought 2nd hand from the MacStore in 2010 for 900 inc VAT. Still runs fine and I use it for iOS development. I have never had a Windows laptop last a fraction of the time. So, they may be expensive but they do last.

Over the years I have used that one machine for Iphone, Android, Blackberry (Aaargh), LAMP, Java, Spring, Hibernate, development. No other single machine could have done it all so it was good value for money for me.

MacOS is BSD UNIX under the hood so most linux software is avaible for it.
One notable exception is Bank Of Ireland Online banking which still needs IE5 or something.

The Corinthian

jgh_ wrote: »

Macbooks (at least in my opinion) are totally worth the money, even if you remove OS X and install Windows or Linux on them.

moycullen14 wrote: »

I have a 2009 MacBook bought 2nd hand from the MacStore in 2010 for 900 inc VAT. Still runs fine and I use it for iOS development. I have never had a Windows laptop last a fraction of the time. So, they may be expensive but they do last.

And I have an Acer laptop from 2009 which still runs fine. So what?

As I said, I'm not interested in converting to iOS, nor am I interested in buying a laptop simply to code for one particular platform, especially as much of what I have to code runs specifically on Windows, so I couldn't fully migrate if I wanted to. Simply doesn't make sense for me to do so on balance, no matter how much people eulogise how they want to have their Mac's children.

So while I appreciate, and expected, the usual Apple evangelizing, none of it really addresses my objections and thus is of no value to me whatsoever.

Seriously, even suggesting you're happy without a Mac is like telling a born-again Christian that God doesn't exist...

Colonel Panic

Ah, the righteous indignation that follows someone's defense of Apple products. It's just at bad as Apple evangelism!

professore

I know a very experienced and talented developer who developed an identical app for android and iPhone. He had the android one finished in 2 weeks (it was a fairly basic app) and the iPhone version took him 3 months. Granted he went the free route to develop it as he didn't have a Mac but this is a massive barrier for entry and will kill iOS apps if something is not done soon. Apple don't have graphic designers and media people to fall back on to develop their mobile apps !

Even Microsoft are preparing a version of office to run on iOS and Android FFS !!!!

Tar.Aldarion

Simple fact is that I wouldn't buy a certain expensive product to code on one platform, if there was a 1500E android laptop to buy I wouldn't buy that either. These laptops have the same hardware in them, my dell vostro laptop is from 2006, what do I win? Unless their shiny cases are doing something I don't know about it's stupid to spend a grand more on one - especially if the OS apparently doesn't matter, let alone buying into a platform so closed.

The Corinthian

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Ah, the righteous indignation that follows someone's defense of Apple products. It's just at bad as Apple evangelism!

Actually, it should be unnecessary - so ultimately not "just as bad" for this reason.

Colonel Panic

A few people said "It's worth it for $reasons" in response to something you said. It's a discussion forum!

The Corinthian

Colonel Panic wrote: »

A few people said "It's worth it for $reasons" in response to something you said.

Yes, it's actually called going off topic; unless the topic is how wonderful Macs are.

It's a discussion forum!

Sure and Jebus loves you.

Colonel Panic

Hilarious... No bias from your point of view at all!

The Corinthian

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Hilarious... No bias from your point of view at all!

My bias is based upon what I stated as my reasons for not investing in a Mac. None of these suggested that a Mac was inferior or anything of the sort - instead they dealt with basic business practicalities of investing time, effort and money in something that just won't return on that investment, no matter how wonderful they are.

As a result, the responses were simply knee-jerk defences of Apple; they did not respond to me, my reasons or my logic. They had nothing to do with what I wrote. They were simply off-topic.

So if I have a bias, it's that I've long found this whole PC vs Mac nonsense to be utterly tedious. But by all means, drag the discussion out further on this subject, because that's what we all want to hear about.

moycullen14

The Corinthian wrote: »

And I have an Acer laptop from 2009 which still runs fine. So what?

As I said, I'm not interested in converting to iOS, nor am I interested in buying a laptop simply to code for one particular platform, especially as much of what I have to code runs specifically on Windows, so I couldn't fully migrate if I wanted to. Simply doesn't make sense for me to do so on balance, no matter how much people eulogise how they want to have their Mac's children.

So while I appreciate, and expected, the usual Apple evangelizing, none of it really addresses my objections and thus is of no value to me whatsoever.

Seriously, even suggesting you're happy without a Mac is like telling a born-again Christian that God doesn't exist...

Whoa, boy. Cool the jets. I'm far from evangelising Apple. Just saying that, for me, the Apple Mac worked out economical because a) it lasted longer than any Windows (Sony, Dell) laptops and b) it was one machine that provided all the development platforms I needed. It's not just a matter of comparing price. If it makes you feel better, there are a lot of things about Apple that irritate me.

What I would say is that if you are doing iphone development, you'd better get a mac. If that causes you a problem, then don't do iOS development.

professore

The Corinthian wrote: »

My bias is based upon what I stated as my reasons for not investing in a Mac. None of these suggested that a Mac was inferior or anything of the sort - instead they dealt with basic business practicalities of investing time, effort and money in something that just won't return on that investment, no matter how wonderful they are.

As a result, the responses were simply knee-jerk defences of Apple; they did not respond to me, my reasons or my logic. They had nothing to do with what I wrote. They were simply off-topic.

So if I have a bias, it's that I've long found this whole PC vs Mac nonsense to be utterly tedious. But by all means, drag the discussion out further on this subject, because that's what we all want to hear about.

What he said. In fact the Mac OS looks very slick compared to Windows - and I'm not mad about Windows PCs at least, far from it. If my customers would all use linux I'd use that in a heartbeat.

moycullen14

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Simple fact is that I wouldn't buy a certain expensive product to code on one platform, if there was a 1500E android laptop to buy I wouldn't buy that either. These laptops have the same hardware in them, my dell vostro laptop is from 2006, what do I win? Unless their shiny cases are doing something I don't know about it's stupid to spend a grand more on one - especially if the OS apparently doesn't matter, let alone buying into a platform so closed.

Follow the discussion. All that's being said is a) iPhone ecosystem costs b) it is necessary if you want to program for it c) It may not be as expensive as you think. Just factor in the costs and see if the return is worth it? Just don't try and do it in a half-a**ed way. If you dislike Apple's way of doing business then just avoid it. Plenty of other things you could be doing.

The Corinthian

moycullen14 wrote: »

What I would say is that if you are doing iphone development, you'd better get a mac. If that causes you a problem, then don't do iOS development.

Which is what I wrote. And not what you actually wrote. What you replied with was a non-sequitor. It was irrelevant to what I wrote.

Sparks

moycullen14 wrote: »

I have never had a Windows laptop last a fraction of the time.

I think you may have been buying pretty appallingly bad laptops. I have one sitting at home (a Toshiba satellite 220) that still works and it was built in 1997. Granted, it won't run Vista... :pac:

Stick with models that have a good reputation for solidity (like the earlier thinkpad series laptops up to about the W500 stage) and while they won't be as thin as an airbook or whatever the latest Mac is called, they'll probably still be working in ten years time...

Sparks

Mac-v-Windows is all very nice, but face it lads, Linux won this row back when noone was noticing

Creamy Goodness

professore wrote: »

I know a very experienced and talented developer who developed an identical app for android and iPhone. He had the android one finished in 2 weeks (it was a fairly basic app) and the iPhone version took him 3 months. Granted he went the free route to develop it as he didn't have a Mac but this is a massive barrier for entry and will kill iOS apps if something is not done soon. Apple don't have graphic designers and media people to fall back on to develop their mobile apps !

Even Microsoft are preparing a version of office to run on iOS and Android FFS !!!!

Sorry I just don't get this. As someone who is an Objective-C developer there's no way in hell the iOS version took three months where as the android version took two weeks. There's something missing here. They are most likely skilled in Java and have zero Objective-C experience. This argument doesn't really fly, if he was an experienced Objective-C developer the times more likely would have been reversed (2 weeks iOS, 3 months Android).

How do you mean he went the free route? free in what sense?

Owning a mac to develop iOS apps is not a massive barrier, look at revenue sales coming from the iOS app store, nothing has to be done _soon_ at all.

I also don't know where you got the whole "Apple don't have graphic designers and media people' It's so blind sighted.


On topic. Android is the better platform to get started as you'll most likely have the required tools already, it has cheaper phones etc.

The_B_Man

Just to weigh in.
As someone who's main language is Java, I found it relatively easy to write all my Android apps.
I recently installed Mac on VMWare to try out iOS development.

It brought me back to my C/C++ days in college with .h files etc, and I reckon if C/C++ was my main language instead of Java, then I'd pick it up a lot quicker than I am, but probably still not as quick as I did with Android. I like how the GUI editor (I havnet used Android studio yet) allows you to basically create an app with multiple screens (static lists/data/images) without writing any lines of code, but I think once you start to actually code, you see that Obj-C is an entirely different animal altogether from C/C++. Android tries to rely on as many existing Java classes as possible, whereas Obj-C doesnt seem to as much, I think. So there's more of an initial learning curve.

Parts of iOS dev seem a bit weird, but maybe its because I'm dragging form objects onto the GUI editor, and CTRL-dragging into the source to create a connection. Maybe if I just did it in pure source like Android, it might make more sense.

iOS dev seems OK though, and I will most likely continue doing it off my VM (especially since I want to move my career from JEE to mobile), but as I have a really good laptop that will last me a number of years, I wont be investing in a macbook any time soon (I'll consider it when I am next buying a laptop). Maybe a second hand iPhone if I get serious about it, but thats it.

I will say though, I have no defense of the fact that I spent around 1200 on my windows laptop, and another few hundred on my HTC One. At least the specs on my 18month old laptop are better than even the top of the range macbooks out now!

Sparks

The_B_Man wrote: »

Obj-C is an entirely different animal altogether from C/C++

Um, this may sound like a dumb question, but isn't that a given?
(And C and C++ are entirely different animals too btw...)

The_B_Man

As a Java dev, writing Android is a small step. A few extra libraries or frameworks or whatever.
As a C/C++ dev, Objective-C is a larger step. I thought it would be similar to C or C++ but other than sharing usage of .h files, its completely different. So much so that being a C/C++ dev holds very little advantage, when compared to the advantage of being a Java dev and moving to Android.

Colonel Panic

I dunno, Objective C isn't that much of a conceptual leap coming from C or C++ apart from the fact that's it isn't statically typed and is really verbose, although less so in recent iterations.

I keep most of my core code in C/C++ and use OpenGL as a graphics API (even though for a programmer, Direct X is better imo) and find Mac laptops in particular worth the money I spend on them.

I've always found dealing with Google tools, albeit not Android as such to be a massive pain in the arse. I think it's down to them hiring so many people with PHDs but no common sense when it comes to the not so glamorous stuff like tool chains and the like.

I find it silly that iOS development is Mac only too, and while I don't think there are insurmountable technical reasons for it, there are technical reasons nonetheless, partially in some of the tech XCode leverages, partially in how the simulator currently works.

I would bet that in a lab in Apple somewhere, XCode and all the trimmings is running in some form on a Windows machine.

Sparks

Colonel Panic wrote: »

I dunno, Objective C isn't that much of a conceptual leap coming from C or C++ apart from the fact that's it isn't statically typed and is really verbose, although less so in recent iterations.

You may have missed some of the concepts - ObjC has a completely different OO model than C++ has (late binding v early binding is about the core of it, but there's also more of a message-passing approach to it). It's a really nice language, iOS stuff aside, I used to play with it a bit years and years ago (before this century ) and was always kindof sad C++ won that particular battle.

Colonel Panic

It's not so much that I missed them, more that I've only got the between compile times to post and thought I'd mention the biggest difference I could think of!

The Corinthian

Colonel Panic wrote: »

I find it silly that iOS development is Mac only too, and while I don't think there are insurmountable technical reasons for it, there are technical reasons nonetheless, partially in some of the tech XCode leverages, partially in how the simulator currently works.

I would bet that in a lab in Apple somewhere, XCode and all the trimmings is running in some form on a Windows machine.

My guess is that it was a concious attempt to turn iOS into the platform of choice for app developers, in much the same way that the Mac was the platform of choice for DTP in the 1990's. They've used simelar strategies to convert and/or lock in people into iTunes too.

In that respect, while the danger existed that it would have stunted app development, I believe it was a gamble that paid off - if your focus is 90%+ app development, you're going to use iOS, as it'll cover you on both iPhone and Android development.

Colonel Panic

Oh totally. Jobs was and Apple will continue to be all about "Product" and force lock in until they can't get away with it anymore (See also the fact that they ported iTunes to Windows eventually, or released an App Store and SDK AT ALL).

I don't agree with it, but I think ultimately it's just business. I'm still amazed at how they can whip up an annual frenzy over phone upgrades, and this is coming from someone who uses an iPhone.