Can't get the staff

Greenmachine

...linky

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/with-250000-people-out-of-work-why-are-there-3000-vacant-jobs-in-our-hotels-30067015.html

A 21-year-old hotel worker starting out on the minimum wage can expect to receive approximately €260 euro a week based on 37.5 hours on employment.

Min wage at 8.65 p/h * 37.5 hr = €324.38
On the other hand €260/37.5 = €6.93 p/h

If they can't be bothered paying their staff right no wonder they can't fill their positions.

longhalloween

Greenmachine wrote: »

Min wage at 8.65 p/h * 37.5 hr = €324.38
On the other hand €260/37.5 = €6.93 p/h

If they can't be bothered paying their staff right no wonder they can't fill their positions.

I thought hotel staff got above the minimum wage?

Frynge

Greenmachine wrote: »

...linky

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/with-250000-people-out-of-work-why-are-there-3000-vacant-jobs-in-our-hotels-30067015.html



Min wage at 8.65 p/h * 37.5 hr = €324.38
On the other hand €260/37.5 = €6.93 p/h

If they can't be bothered paying their staff right no wonder they can't fill their positions.

The minimum wages for someone in such a position could be 6.92 not the 8.65 you state.

MadYaker

Greenmachine wrote: »

...linky

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/with-250000-people-out-of-work-why-are-there-3000-vacant-jobs-in-our-hotels-30067015.html



Min wage at 8.65 p/h * 37.5 hr = €324.38
On the other hand €260/37.5 = €6.93 p/h

If they can't be bothered paying their staff right no wonder they can't fill their positions.

The 8.65 an hour is before tax.

aphex™

They can pay people with no experience less than the minimum wage.

darkpagandeath

longhalloween wrote: »

I thought hotel staff got above the minimum wage?

Did they not remove the minimum wage from the hospitality sector to promote growth.

GenieOz

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Did they not remove the minimum wage from the hospitality sector to promote growth.

Promote growth..promote the growth in their own wallets more like. What a sham.

Alun

Different rates for different ages etc.

These are the legal minimum rates of pay in Ireland for 2014

Experienced adult worker €8.65 per hour

Over 19 and in 2nd year of first employment €7.79

Over 18 and in first year of first employment €6.92

Aged under 18 €6.06 per hour

wadefuq

260 After tax i'd say

Frynge

MadYaker wrote: »

The 8.65 an hour is before tax.

No it is not.

aphex™ wrote: »

They can pay people with no experience less than the minimum wage.

Not quite the spin they put on it, it is better described as receiving 80% of the minimum wage.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Did they not remove the minimum wage from the hospitality sector to promote growth.

Not at all. If anything wages particularly in the kitchens are going up as good chefs are becoming very hard to find.

kneemos

I'd want free grub and tips for those wages.

wp_rathead

From the Article wrote:

Darren's great fear is that increasing tourist numbers will result in new staff demanding mega pay packets. "We're in a difficult position. The more tourists who arrive, the more desperate hoteliers become and staff will be looking for big wages. We'll all be fishing from the same small pool of talent and if a fella says he can go down the road and get an extra €5,000 what are you going to do?

Well boo-fecking-hoo Darren...

shruikan2553

My girlfriend couldnt get a job in any hotel because she lacked experience. If they arent willing to train the people and just hope someone who years of experience walks in one day they are going to have trouble getting people. Offering less than 8.65 is probably not helping either.

Greenmachine

The example they provided was for a 21 year old. They could have assumed the person had 2 years prior work experience for the purpose of he article.
The pitch in the article is poor.
The year rule is bull anyway. If someone has worked two year in mcdonalds. They are hardly better trained to work in say a warehouse.

BuzzFish

Frynge wrote: »

No it is not.

Yes it is.

Under Section 20 of the National Minimum Wage Act 2000 the basic method of calculation is to divide the gross pay by the total number of hours worked.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html

tallaghtmick

What they really mean is the can't take advantage of hard working polish lads and ladies and pay them fook all.

Frynge

kneemos wrote: »

I'd want free grub and tips for those wages.

Some of the hotels I have worked in you wouldn't want what the staff are given for food but the tips were good back then.

I now work in a management role for a chain and the one thing the staff really seem to like is that within reason they can order what they want, excluding likes of steak and other such things. But if it is incredible busy it is off to the sandwich counter for a quick bite.

Toto Wolfcastle

shruikan2553 wrote: »

My girlfriend couldnt get a job in any hotel because she lacked experience. If they arent willing to train the people and just hope someone who years of experience walks in one day they are going to have trouble getting people. Offering less than 8.65 is probably not helping either.

I know someone with experience in a bar/restaurant who applied for a job in one of the hotels mentioned in the article in the last 6 months and didn't get a job. If someone with experience can't get a job in a hotel that, by its own admission, can't get the staff then those with no experience have no hope.

GenieOz

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

I know someone with experience in a bar/restaurant who applied for a job in one of the hotels mentioned in the article in the last 6 months and didn't get a job. If someone with experience can't get a job in a hotel that, by its own admission, can't get the staff then those with no experience have no hope.

Places like that don't care about experience, they want those they can pay the least.

Frynge

BuzzFish wrote: »

Yes it is.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html

I can assure you they are not earning €346 and losing €86 to tax.

kneemos

A happy well trained and decently paid staff is a valuable resource,most employers only count the wage cost sadly.

Captain Havoc

You need to be off your rocker to work in a hotel.

Smiles35

Seasonal work. Summer robbed with foreign people you'l never see again. (Unless you want to marry one and live in poverty)

P_1

When did the Indo start doing sponsored articles? Works better than an ad mind, it has us talking about it

Chazz Michael Michaels

Greenmachine wrote: »

...linky

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/with-250000-people-out-of-work-why-are-there-3000-vacant-jobs-in-our-hotels-30067015.html



Min wage at 8.65 p/h * 37.5 hr = €324.38
On the other hand €260/37.5 = €6.93 p/h

If they can't be bothered paying their staff right no wonder they can't fill their positions.

€260 p/w after tax

Let's say you bus in and out, around €4 x 5 = €20 p/w

We're down to €240. Now let's say you eat a sandwich, drink and crisps deal from Spar for around €5 x 5 = €25 p/w

So total cost of working is €45 p/w leaving you with a profit of €215 p/w.

Is it even worth it?

Stavros Murphy

"Can't get the staff", or "Won't pay for staff" ?? For €300 odd a week, why bother, I mean honestly, why? The hours are crap, it's damn hard work, there's little thanks, and then shyte pay. No wonder they can't get the staff. Go feckin figure Boss. Would you, Darren old flower, work for €300 a week? I highly feckin doubt it TBH.

kneemos

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

"Can't get the staff", or "Won't pay for staff" ?? For €300 odd a week, why bother, I mean honestly, why? The hours are crap, it's damn hard work, there's little thanks, and then shyte pay. No wonder they can't get the staff. Go feckin figure Boss. Would you, Darren old flower, work for €300 a week? I highly feckin doubt it TBH.

From a purely monetary point of view if you're on a hundred quid a week from the dole it might look very attractive.

GenieOz

kneemos wrote: »

From a purely monetary point of view if you're on a hundred quid a week from the dole it might look very attractive.

For an extra 80? No. Just no.
Hotel work is one of the worst jobs out there for a lot of people, it's like retail except you have to put up with even more shît than they do.

shruikan2553

GenieOz wrote: »

For an extra 80? No. Just no.
Hotel work is one of the worst jobs out there for a lot of people, it's like retail except you have to so put up with even more shît than they do.

Its like retail if everything you handled could burn you. Sweet jesus they like to have those plates hot.

Fr_Dougal

GenieOz wrote: »

For an extra 80? No. Just no.
Hotel work is one of the worst jobs out there for a lot of people, it's like retail except you have to put up with even more shît than they do.

This is part of the problem in this country, the dole is seen as alternative employment and people think of the social welfare as a wage, it was never intended to be that, it's purpose is to act as a safety net for the vulnerable.

GenieOz

TheZohan wrote: »

This is part of the problem in this country, the dole is seen as alternative employment and people think of the social welfare as a wage, it was never intended to be that, it's purpose is to act as a safety net for the vulnerable.

If they expect jobs like these to be taken on for those wages then they will need to desperately update their mental health care as you'll see a lot more people with problems.

MRnotlob606

Frynge wrote: »

The minimum wages for someone in such a position could be 6.92 not the 8.65 you state.

Lol that sounded like an insult :pac:

Smiles35

TheZohan wrote: »

This is part of the problem in this country, the dole is seen as alternative employment and people think of the social welfare as a wage, it was never intended to be that, it's purpose is to act as a safety net for the vulnerable.

I'd take a steady job in the coal mines of Shefield instead of this. At least I'd get to socialise with friends at the weekend.

tbh It's your attitute that has a national newspaper selling seasonal work with no future as a grand thing

ofcork

I worked in a hotel in cork around 1992 and it was 100 before tax far a 39 hour week that could be 8 to 4,4 to 12 etc.

Frynge

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

€260 p/w after tax

Let's say you bus in and out, around €4 x 5 = €20 p/w

We're down to €240. Now let's say you eat a sandwich, drink and crisps deal from Spar for around €5 x 5 = €25 p/w

So total cost of working is €45 p/w leaving you with a profit of €215 p/w.

Is it even worth it?

It is actually €260 before tax. They have to pay USC. I really wouldnt pay much attention to such an article because in reality people just cannot be expected to put in 37.5 hours in what can sometimes be a very tought working environment for that amount. The lowest wage we would have is €8 for a 15 year old who sorts bottles on a saturday morning in the summer months.

The biggest issue we have with getting staff is that they go trough the interview process to be offered a job and then tell us they will only work for cash so that they can still claim the dole. That isn't just for people on €400 a week but even someone been offered €650 a week.

foggy_lad

Greenmachine wrote: »

The example they provided was for a 21 year old. They could have assumed the person had 2 years prior work experience for the purpose of he article.
The pitch in the article is poor.
The year rule is bull anyway. If someone has worked two year in mcdonalds. They are hardly better trained to work in say a warehouse.

Even if a person works for a week at a first job they must then be paid as an experienced worker in any other job for minimum wage purposes and must be paid the full rate.

scwazrh

TheZohan wrote: »

This is part of the problem in this country, the dole is seen as alternative employment and people think of the social welfare as a wage, it was never intended to be that, it's purpose is to act as a safety net for the vulnerable.

Completely agree with this.we are currently trying to recruit a part time Painter & decorator for 24 hrs a wk at 12 euro / hr plus 8% holiday pay. We've had several people so far that have said it wouldn't be worth their while as they will lose too much from their welfare .We offered the job to one person and he told us that after he paid transport and bought his lunches he would make nearly as much if he kept his full dole and rent allowance.

B.A._Baracus

I've applied to hotel jobs myself. Won't wear you unless you have a few years experience. And now they wanna shaft you on wages too?

B.A._Baracus

TheZohan wrote: »

This is part of the problem in this country, the dole is seen as alternative employment and people think of the social welfare as a wage, it was never intended to be that, it's purpose is to act as a safety net for the vulnerable.

But also, life isnt fair
So get what you can.

delw

ofcork wrote: »

I worked in a hotel in cork around 1992 and it was 100 before tax far a 39 hour week that could be 8 to 4,4 to 12 etc.

Lucky you i worked in a hotel in 1990,kitchen porter, first job straight out of school & came out with 58 punts after tax for a full weeks work,miserable bast**ds

Eight Ball

Pay people a decent wage and they will work it's that simple. Nobody in their right mind will work for 8.65 an hour ffs unless they left school early and have zero respect for themselves.

Holsten

Eight Ball wrote: »

Pay people a decent wage and they will work it's that simple. Nobody in their right mind will work for 8.65 an hour ffs unless they left school early and have zero respect for themselves.

I know people with degrees who are working for just that.

Take what you can get.

Eight Ball

Frynge wrote: »

It is actually €260 before tax. They have to pay USC. I really wouldnt pay much attention to such an article because in reality people just cannot be expected to put in 37.5 hours in what can sometimes be a very tought working environment for that amount. The lowest wage we would have is €8 for a 15 year old who sorts bottles on a saturday morning in the summer months.

The biggest issue we have with getting staff is that they go trough the interview process to be offered a job and then tell us they will only work for cash so that they can still claim the dole. That isn't just for people on €400 a week but even someone been offered €650 a week.

I smell bull**** and a wheelbarrow load of it here. You saying someone would refuse a job for 650 a week?

Eight Ball

Holsten wrote: »

I know people with degrees who are working for just that.

Take what you can get.

No fecking chance. It is no wonder people refuse to leave the dole when employers are offering that.

Femme_Fatale

I would refuse €650 per week if it was a 60/70-hour week. Those are the kind of hours people working in hotels can be expected to do. And works out at feck-all per hour.

AngryHippie

scwazrh wrote: »

Completely agree with this.we are currently trying to recruit a part time Painter & decorator for 24 hrs a wk at 12 euro / hr plus 8% holiday pay. We've had several people so far that have said it wouldn't be worth their while as they will lose too much from their welfare .We offered the job to one person and he told us that after he paid transport and bought his lunches he would make nearly as much if he kept his full dole and rent allowance.

+1 with everyone who has posted about this sentiment.

People seem to lose sight of the fact that the dole is paid by a combination of other peoples tax, and the state borrowing from IMF/ECB/Whomsoever is dumb enough to lend to them.
Effectively drawing dole now, means you are going to have to pay more tax later, or someone is.
Why this seems to be considered as a sustainable state of affairs is beyond me.
Even if you are only 20 quid a week better off, the state is 200 + whatever tax you pay better off.

I've copped a bit of sh!t on boards for coming off a bit high and mighty, or unsympathetic because I'm lucky enough to have a job, but for fcuks sake, is basic maths and common fcuking sense completely extinct in Ireland ?
It is a combination of selfishness, ignorance and laziness and I am beyond giving a fcuk how people feel about it if they are prepared to turn down work because they don't think it is worth their while and would rather mooch out of the public purse. They are every bit as bad as the Quangos and buffoons in Leinster house, they just aren't honest enough with themselves to admit it.

Rant over.

Abuse on a postcard to the land of gives a fcuk :rolleyes:

COYW

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

€260 p/w after tax

Let's say you bus in and out, around €4 x 5 = €20 p/w

We're down to €240. Now let's say you eat a sandwich, drink and crisps deal from Spar for around €5 x 5 = €25 p/w

So total cost of working is €45 p/w leaving you with a profit of €215 p/w.

Is it even worth it?

For starters they could bring their lunch into work with them, saving themselves a fortune. I would be classed as a high earner and I always bring my lunch in with me.

Secondly, any form of work is better than nothing. I constantly hear that people are desperate for work and will take the first job that comes along to get off the dole. Where are all these people now?

the_syco

I wonder how many of these empty hotels are in the backarse of nowhere. Said places probably only want people with experience, and not be prepared to pay for it. And so without your own transport, you won't be able to get there easily!

Eight Ball wrote: »

You saying someone would refuse a job for 650 a week?

If they have kids, yes. Crèche usually costs €800 – €1000 per month depending on the child’s age. So if you have two kids, 650 a week before tax would be down 1600-2000 a month just from the kids! And that's before tax, rent, etc.

the_syco

COYW wrote: »

Secondly, any form of work is better than nothing. I constantly hear that people are desperate for work and will take the first job that comes along to get them off the dole. Where are all these people now?

Some may be in the poverty trap? Some may not be able to afford the first month without any money if they don't have savings.

The first month being after their last social welfare payment, and first months pay.

coolemon

If the employer cant pay a decent living wage to their employees then they shouldn't be in business. Its as simple as that.

Anyone can run a business off slave labour. Thankfully we have social welfare payments and a minimum wage to protect us against these parasitic vultures.

Cant hire someone? Pay more or close shop and stop whining. They can go and join the great social welfare bonanza if they think its so great.

Smurph90

I applied to a good few hotels for bar work and they said i didnt have hotel experience. Ive got 4 years of bar experience. Is there a special technique for pouring pints in hotels?