Ireland.... Corrupt & Backwards country

BabyMonkeyy

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9wmIZEl1nSo

So the video above was posted on a friends fb page with the words "great country but corrupt & backward"

I would agree 100% about being corrupt ( what country isn't) but backwards? I'm not so sure about.

So what are your views? Are we a corrupt and backwards country?

Hootanany

Both with knobs on.

Muise...

in before The Backwards Man.

mad muffin

Yes.

joe swanson

In reality, probably one of the least corrupt in the world. It is however full of people who like to think so and full of groups whose existence relies on people believing it.

Hootanany

joe swanson wrote: »

In reality, probably one of the least corrupt in the world. It is however full of people who like to think so and full of groups whose existence relies on people believing it.

Rehab CRC the Dail will i go on

Artful_Badger

Annoys me when people try promote the country by harping on about the companies that have set up shop here. As if they value this place for anything other than the fact they pay piss all tax.

The Backwards Man

Muise... wrote: »

in before The Backwards Man.

It's not who gets in first that matters, it's who does the most while they are in.

anncoates

Artful_Badger wrote: »

As if they value this place for anything other than the fact they pay piss all tax.

In the absence of alternatives, I'd rather have a job with a company paying low tax than having to emigrate or sign on.

Gosub

There are corrupt people in most, if not all, governments. So, corrupt? Probably.

I live in an area where broadband is a myth. So, backward? Yes.

For Forks Sake

joe swanson wrote: »

In reality, probably one of the least corrupt in the world. It is however full of people who like to think so and full of groups whose existence relies on people believing it.

Hootanany wrote: »

Rehab CRC the Dail will i go on

Have a feed of some facts before you do please: http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

Artful_Badger

anncoates wrote: »

In the absence of alternatives, I'd rather have a job with a company paying low tax than having to emigrate or sign on.

Me too but its hardly a source of national pride that so many top companies set up here to take advantage of the tax system.

Muise...

The Backwards Man wrote: »

It's not who gets in first that matters, it's who does the most while they are in.

the most backwardsing?

spank_inferno

21st least corrupt in the world.

Up yours Chile!

(Though we are still bit of a papal theocracy.... So maybe slightly backward).

joe swanson

Hootanany wrote: »

Rehab CRC the Dail will i go on

Is rehab funded by the tax payer? Immoral maybe but not corrupt. Crc yep a disgrace. The Dail is a bit general so maybe more specifics?

Im not saying there is no corruption. But its nowhere near as widespread as some people think. And the idea that it is, is spread by the likes of mick Wallace who it could be argued is the most ethically challenged of all our politicians.

Noone wants to focus on the good things.

mikom

Better version.

Thanks Bord Fáilte for wasting my money on the mawkish one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9olaIio3l8

Eight Ball

Incredibly corrupt country I'm afraid on a par with Italy on many levels. Then again you get the government you deserve

spank_inferno

Eight Ball wrote: »

Incredibly corrupt country I'm afraid on a par with Italy on many levels. Then again you get the government you deserve

There are only about 170 countries more corrupt.

oldyouth

Yes, of course we are corrupt. What sets us aside from other nations is that we seem to enjoy it

Muise...

spank_inferno wrote: »

There are only about 170 countries more corrupt.

out of 193-196, depending on the definition of a country.

Markcheese

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Have a feed of some facts before you do please: http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

That's the perception of corruption , all the best corruption is hidden ....

joe swanson

Markcheese wrote: »

That's the perception of corruption , all the best corruption is hidden ....

conspiracy theory forum >>>>>

Phoebas

Markcheese wrote: »

That's the perception of corruption , all the best corruption is hidden ....

Hidden from perception! That's some trick.

Fr. Ned

Markcheese wrote: »

That's the perception of corruption , all the best corruption is hidden ....

The best corruption is made law by successive FFail/FG governments.

Stojkovic

Corrupt a resounding YES.
Backwards no.

Ive been in many places in America that are still in the 1930s.

maringo

Best little country in the world. Best Regulators. Best Bankers. Best Justice System. Best Health Service. Best Education System. Best Public Transport. Best Cost of Living. And I'm sure we're best at lots more :rolleyes:

shleedance

Definitely backwards. There's not a whole lot of mentally stimulating things that go on outside the likes of Dublin. No real theme parks either, which makes me sad.

emo72

Enda "A new way of doing things. More transparent accountable government, a government for CHANGE. Not one cent more to the banks. I will get rid of quangos. Wage cap for advisors. ACCOUNTABILITY!". Should i go on?

its not the country thats corrupt, its a couple of dozen senior civil servants, and the politicians that work with them. they didnt want to lose their pensions and absurd wages so they signed us up to the troika "bailout" (which we actually paid for, and so will our children), and so they destroyed us. things are great for them. the countries not corrupt. just a small few at the top:mad:

For Forks Sake

shleedance wrote: »

Definitely backwards. There's not a whole lot of mentally stimulating things that go on outside the likes of Dublin.

Location: Dundalk

Not sure if serious.....

Wompa1

Ah there's some things which you could understand being perceived as backwards. Our national broadcaster has the Angelus. Not sure if it's still on over there.

We've come a long way in the last 20 years...the Catholic church has a lot to answer for in terms of holding us back a bit.

Political corruption is the same as anywhere. Not everywhere is as socialist as us so we get more exposure to people who abuse the system so it may seem as though the corruption doesn't just exist in public officials\servants.

J_E

If you think we're bad, head over to Spain...

blueser

maringo wrote: »

Best little country in the world. Best Regulators. Best Bankers. Best Justice System. Best Health Service. Best Education System. Best Public Transport. Best Cost of Living. And I'm sure we're best at lots more :rolleyes:

To nick a line from Snatch; ''Are you taking the p1ss?''

MadYaker

Im getting really sick of these threads.

Putin

joe swanson wrote: »

In reality, probably one of the least corrupt in the world. It is however full of people who like to think so and full of groups whose existence relies on people believing it.

Well said Enda, but since you mentioned reality......

emo72

blueser wrote: »

To nick a line from Snatch; ''Are you taking the p1ss?''

i thought it was obvious:pac:

Legs.Eleven

Eight Ball wrote: »

Incredibly corrupt country I'm afraid on a par with Italy on many levels. Then again you get the government you deserve

Yesterday you were saying we were the most corrupt country in Europe meaning we're more corrupt than Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Moldova, Kosovo, Belarus, Ukraine, Croatia, Turkey, Slovakia and Russia in your opinion (when, in fact, we don't even feature in the top 20). Today we're on par with Italy. You don't really have a clue what you're talking about, do you?

Cydoniac wrote: »

If you think we're bad, head over to Spain...

Times a trillion million. Corruption and fraud is a way of life here....but it's still not in the top 20.

Wompa1

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Times a trillion million. Corruption and fraud is a way of life here....but it's still not in the top 20.

In terms of perception. Ireland is number 21. But that's perception apparently:

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

Spain is 40...perception... that is on the good end

Chazz Michael Michaels

Hootanany wrote: »

Rehab CRC the Dail will i go on

In this 2011 index, Ireland are the 19th least corrupt country in the world. 21st in the 2013 report. Top 12%.

I bet you still think that you are right, though.


I would agree with backwards though. Our education system is run by the church, for example.

Legs.Eleven

Wompa1 wrote: »

In terms of perception. Ireland is number 21. But that's perception apparently:

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

Spain is 40...perception... that is on the good end

I don't want to deny that corruption exists in Ireland because obviously it does but to state that Ireland is the most corrupt country in Europe is irritating. These threads get on my tits. Get out and see a bit of the world and report back to me, all those who believe we (or you, I should say) have it bad in Ireland. I only had to go as far as Spain to realise that.

J_E

Wompa1 wrote: »

In terms of perception. Ireland is number 21. But that's perception apparently:

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

Spain is 40...perception... that is on the good end

Watch Spanish news with someone to translate it and you won't go a single day without hearing a politician who was caught taking a nice large sum of money or doing a dodgy favour. Even in Benidorm they built an apartment complex that was beyond height regulations and missing a working lift(!) that only happened because the town planner got a nice envelope. Ireland has a lot of that going on too, but it's much smaller scale...a lot of media hype too.

Wompa1

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I don't want to deny that corruption exists in Ireland because obviously it does but to state that Ireland is the most corrupt country in Europe is irritating. These threads get on my tits. Get out and see a bit of the world and report back to me, all those who believe we (or you, I should say) have it bad in Ireland. I only had to go as far as Spain to realise that.

Cydoniac wrote: »

Watch Spanish news with someone to translate it and you won't go a single day without hearing a politician who was caught taking a nice large sum of money or doing a dodgy favour. Even in Benidorm they built an apartment complex that was beyond height regulations and missing a working lift(!) that only happened because the town planner got a nice envelope. Ireland has a lot of that going on too, but it's much smaller scale...a lot of media hype too.

It shouldn't be about comparing to anybody. Is the level of corruption in Ireland acceptable to us? That's the only relevant question. Saying, yeah well Spain is worse, or it could be worse we could live in North Korea...that's just as irritating as somebody making such general statements about the corruption in the first place.

Ireland is a great country, it does have an awful lot going for it. People should keep shouting about corruption, there should be more of a focus on it. Even great countries should work on getting better.

Femme_Fatale

Wompa1 wrote: »

It shouldn't be about comparing to anybody. Is the level of corruption in Ireland acceptable to us? That's the only relevant question.

Absolutely. No corruption is acceptable and it pisses me off so much the way there's instant resignation for wrongdoing in the UK and the gombeens here stay in office.
But when people start saying the corruption in Ireland is as bad as that in Italy or [insert any country renowned for corruption] that's just a plain lie. That's when comparisons are relevant.

Wompa1

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Absolutely. No corruption is acceptable and it pisses me off so much the way there's instant resignation for wrongdoing in the UK and the gombeens here stay in office.
But when people start saying the corruption in Ireland is as bad as that in Italy or [insert any country renowned for corruption] that's just a plain lie. That's when comparisons are relevant.

I agree with that much. But no point in challenging with comparisons to other worse countries as some sort of defense.

Just wait for the US to be mentioned in this thread and watch it unravel. As a group we tend to look at our neighbors a lot, rather than keep the focus on our own lot.

Legs.Eleven

Wompa1 wrote: »

It shouldn't be about comparing to anybody. Is the level of corruption in Ireland acceptable to us? That's the only relevant question. Saying, yeah well Spain is worse, or it could be worse we could live in North Korea...that's just as irritating as somebody making such general statements about the corruption in the first place.

Ireland is a great country, it does have an awful lot going for it. People should keep shouting about corruption, there should be more of a focus on it. Even great countries should work on getting better.

Well Spain is only 2 hours away, so hardly some random, obscure country like North Korea and I've been living here for 4 and a half years, so I will compare as you do to the states as it's relevant to me.


I'm not condoning the corruption that DOES go on in the Ireland, I'm replying to those who state it's the worst in Europe or Ireland is some horrible hell hole. They're not reasonable comments and not conducive to proper debate. If people actually engaged their brains and argued their points without bringing their own axes to grind, we could discuss these things but this never happens. But this is AH, I suppose so probably not the place for it.

Mr. G

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Me too but its hardly a source of national pride that so many top companies set up here to take advantage of the tax system.

There are other reasons, for example connectivity, location, young educated workforce, relatively positive industrial relations, no seismic activity, green image etc. It's not just the low corporation tax, though I'd imagine that would be a major factor.

I agree with that, but tax is not the only reason.

BuilderPlumber

The main problem with Ireland tends to be a divide between the urban and rural. Long before the recent banking crisis crashed our economy, we still had this urban/rural divide. Now, we see some signs of recovery and guess what Dublin especially and most of the other cities are leading the way. Meanwhile, the current trend of rural decline continues with pubs, shops, post offices and other services closing.

The new post-recession Ireland I predict will be a great country if you live in or near a city, have a car, live beside a Tesco/Lidl/Aldi/Supervalu, are not dependent on a rural small business and prefer to drink at home or in a hotel. For others, the new economic boom will bypass them.

SpaceTime

Eight Ball wrote: »

Incredibly corrupt country I'm afraid on a par with Italy on many levels. Then again you get the government you deserve

You should try France!
Some of the scandals over there would make your head spin.

We do OK in the corruption leagues and we've kinda had a massive acceleration out of backwardness. We certainly were in the 1970s and even 80s when you'd things like incredibly religious laws preventing people accessing contraceptives and divorce was not possible without emigrating.

Ireland's sort of had the 1960s-90s all compressed from about 1990-2003/4.

Still things like access to abortion (and I am not arguing for ultra liberal stuff here) is quite an odd position compared to any other western democracy.

Wompa1

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Well Spain is only 2 hours away, so hardly some random, obscure country like North Korea and I've been living here for 4 and a half years, so I will compare as you do to the states as it's relevant to me.


I'm not condoning the corruption that DOES go on in the Ireland, I'm replying to those who state it's the worst in Europe or Ireland is some horrible hell hole. They're not reasonable comments and not conducive to proper debate. If people actually engaged their brains and argued their points without bringing their own axes to grind, we could discuss these things but this never happens. But this is AH, I suppose so probably not the place for it.

Your post quoted another post that said "If you think we're bad, head over to Spain"...

Also, I'm not trying to compare to America, my whole point is that it's pointless drawing comparisons with other countries. We should decide what's acceptable for ourselves

jonnny68

joe swanson wrote: »

In reality, probably one of the least corrupt in the world. It is however full of people who like to think so and full of groups whose existence relies on people believing it.

Definitely not, Ireland is probably one of the most corrupt in Europe.

SpaceTime

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The main problem with Ireland tends to be a divide between the urban and rural. Long before the recent banking crisis crashed our economy, we still had this urban/rural divide. Now, we see some signs of recovery and guess what Dublin especially and most of the other cities are leading the way. Meanwhile, the current trend of rural decline continues with pubs, shops, post offices and other services closing.

The new post-recession Ireland I predict will be a great country if you live in or near a city, have a car, live beside a Tesco/Lidl/Aldi/Supervalu, are not dependent on a rural small business and prefer to drink at home or in a hotel. For others, the new economic boom will bypass them.

I can't think of ANY country that doesn't have a similar urban-rural divide to be perfectly honest.

Ireland's urban-rural divide's far less pronounced than most.

On things like broadband, a lot of it comes down to really bad planning and allowing ribbon development / scattered development which becomes unserviceable at anything approaching an economic cost.

That's why you get bad broadband in non-village areas, sewage issues with one off housing etc etc.

SpaceTime

jonnny68 wrote: »

Definitely not, Ireland is probably one of the most corrupt in Europe.

You've obviously never lived in France (definitely more corrupt than Ireland) or Southern European countries (way way more corrupt than Ireland)

Ireland's kinda somewhere slightly above France (not much though) and probably a bit more corrupt than the UK, but much more corrupt than the Nordic countries.

I'd argue Ireland's significantly less corrupt than the US too. American political power is simply purchased by lobbyists these days and totally blatantly too. It's probably why many Americans no longer even vote they're so turned off by it.