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Should Ireland have a better equipped Navy and Air Force?
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11-03-2014 7:38pm#1
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i've often seen this being stated, but i'm not convinced its true - what is the basis for this suggestion?
The MPA version of the CASA CN-235 that Ireland uses has a state-of-the-art surface search radar that is mounted underneath the belly of the aircraft. According to the link below, the radar used is a Litton APS 504(V)5 system. It is designed from the ground up for scanning ocean surfaces, and its mounting underneath the fuselage means that it can only scan underneath the aircraft due to movement restrictions for the antenna.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/airtech-cn-235-mpa/
If the aircraft is high enough, it should be possible to use it as an air search radar. The software would have to be modified to interpret the different returns from airborne targets, but that should be easily resolvable by a software update. Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if the computers and information management system ware already set up for this.
As far as the topic itself is concerned, Ireland should definitely have a better equipped naval and air force. Not by much, but it should definitely be better and larger. The CASA CN-235 is a prime example. In my eyes, there should be a fleet of six of these aircraft permanently assigned to the Maritime Patrol role, especially since the RAF phase out their BAe Nimrods. It might also be a good choice to get two of that type especially outfitted as airlifters. The PC-9s can stay, but the Cessnas should be replaced by something more modern.
Considering their present role, I'm quite partial to the Diamond Aircraft DA-42 Twin star in the surveillance version built for the UK. Their fleet should be about the same size. For good measure, you could order 2-4 DA 40 Star for pilots training. If it's good enough for the US Air Force Academy, it should be good enough for Ireland
The helicopter force should be enlarged, more AW-139s being the obvious choice. The biggest thing that is needed is a fast jet capability. Not a large one, especially since Irish Airspace is being covered by the Royal Air Force, but a fleet of 9-12 single seat aircraft, and 3 more double seaters for transition training would still be prudent. As far as the type is concerned, something like the Korean Aerospace T-50 would be the optimum choice. Still, even the Aero L-159 ALCA would provide a massive capability increase to something that would be more suitable for Ireland.
As far as the navy is concerned, a lot more work is needed. the new Beckett class OPVs are a step in the right direction, but there are to few of them. Considering the size of the EEA in the Atlantic, a fleet of about 12 oceangoing vessels seems prudent, especially if you want at least 4 ships on patrol at any given time. Both the Beckett class and its immediate predecessor, whose name escapes me are good ships, and should form the mainstay of any future fleet. A new class of helicopter carrying large patrol vessels, two to three ships strong, should also be introduced. I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Protector Class of the Royal New Zealand Navy. The necessary helicopters should be purchased as well, Agusta Westland A-109 being my favourite due to their commonality with the AW-139. A fleet of 3-6 helicopters should suffice. Unlike the last attempt, these should be operated directly by the navy, though I do admit that an Irish Fleet Air Arm sounds rather grandiose. Ideally, a support vessel in the shape of a fleet oiler should also be purchased, though that is definitely not a necessity.
Something that definitely needs to be addressed is basing. With such an increase in numbers and capabilities, it may not be practicable anymore to concentrate all assets on just one base per service, Baldonnel and Haulbowline. Once again, I'll pick on the Air Corps first. Baldonnel should remain for the fast jets, the PC-9 and air transport assets, as well as remaining the central maintenance depot. The Airfield at Gormanston should be reactivated as the central helicopter base, as well as being the central site for basic flight training, and a base for the DA-42 Twin Stars. The CASA Patrol Aircraft should receive their own base. I'd like to see them get based at the former Galway Airport, but adding a military apron to any of the current civilian Airports may very well be a better choice.
As for the navy, I'd like to see a second base being built at Killibegs, which would become the home port for a flotilla of 6 ships, mostly the smaller patrol vessels. The larger vessels, especially the helicopter capable ships, should remain based at Haulbowline. There, the old dry dock should be reactivated, while the area to the east of the main basin should become a heliport to house the helicopters that operate from the new ships. The former Irish Steel site should be redeveloped with state of the art work and repair shops, as well as the warehouses needed to support the helicopters and the new ships.
The question of course is where do you get the money from, and wether the Irish people and their elected representatives are willing to step up to the plate with regards to providing the Permanent Defence Forces with the infrastructure and tools it needs in my eye.Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!
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The MPA version of the CASA CN-235 that Ireland uses has a state-of-the-art surface search radar that is mounted underneath the belly of the aircraft. According to the link below, the radar used is a Litton APS 504(V)5 system. It is designed from the ground up for scanning ocean surfaces, and its mounting underneath the fuselage means that it can only scan underneath the aircraft due to movement restrictions for the antenna.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/airtech-cn-235-mpa/
If the aircraft is high enough, it should be possible to use it as an air search radar. The software would have to be modified to interpret the different returns from airborne targets, but that should be easily resolvable by a software update. Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if the computers and information management system ware already set up for this.
As far as the topic itself is concerned, Ireland should definitely have a better equipped naval and air force. Not by much, but it should definitely be better and larger. The CASA CN-235 is a prime example. In my eyes, there should be a fleet of six of these aircraft permanently assigned to the Maritime Patrol role, especially since the RAF phase out their BAe Nimrods. It might also be a good choice to get two of that type especially outfitted as airlifters. The PC-9s can stay, but the Cessnas should be replaced by something more modern.
Considering their present role, I'm quite partial to the Diamond Aircraft DA-42 Twin star in the surveillance version built for the UK. Their fleet should be about the same size. For good measure, you could order 2-4 DA 40 Star for pilots training. If it's good enough for the US Air Force Academy, it should be good enough for Ireland
The helicopter force should be enlarged, more AW-139s being the obvious choice. The biggest thing that is needed is a fast jet capability. Not a large one, especially since Irish Airspace is being covered by the Royal Air Force, but a fleet of 9-12 single seat aircraft, and 3 more double seaters for transition training would still be prudent. As far as the type is concerned, something like the Korean Aerospace T-50 would be the optimum choice. Still, even the Aero L-159 ALCA would provide a massive capability increase to something that would be more suitable for Ireland.
As far as the navy is concerned, a lot more work is needed. the new Beckett class OPVs are a step in the right direction, but there are to few of them. Considering the size of the EEA in the Atlantic, a fleet of about 12 oceangoing vessels seems prudent, especially if you want at least 4 ships on patrol at any given time. Both the Beckett class and its immediate predecessor, whose name escapes me are good ships, and should form the mainstay of any future fleet. A new class of helicopter carrying large patrol vessels, two to three ships strong, should also be introduced. I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Protector Class of the Royal New Zealand Navy. The necessary helicopters should be purchased as well, Agusta Westland A-109 being my favourite due to their commonality with the AW-139. A fleet of 3-6 helicopters should suffice. Unlike the last attempt, these should be operated directly by the navy, though I do admit that an Irish Fleet Air Arm sounds rather grandiose. Ideally, a support vessel in the shape of a fleet oiler should also be purchased, though that is definitely not a necessity.
Something that definitely needs to be addressed is basing. With such an increase in numbers and capabilities, it may not be practicable anymore to concentrate all assets on just one base per service, Baldonnel and Haulbowline. Once again, I'll pick on the Air Corps first. Baldonnel should remain for the fast jets, the PC-9 and air transport assets, as well as remaining the central maintenance depot. The Airfield at Gormanston should be reactivated as the central helicopter base, as well as being the central site for basic flight training, and a base for the DA-42 Twin Stars. The CASA Patrol Aircraft should receive their own base. I'd like to see them get based at the former Galway Airport, but adding a military apron to any of the current civilian Airports may very well be a better choice.
As for the navy, I'd like to see a second base being built at Killibegs, which would become the home port for a flotilla of 6 ships, mostly the smaller patrol vessels. The larger vessels, especially the helicopter capable ships, should remain based at Haulbowline. There, the old dry dock should be reactivated, while the area to the east of the main basin should become a heliport to house the helicopters that operate from the new ships. The former Irish Steel site should be redeveloped with state of the art work and repair shops, as well as the warehouses needed to support the helicopters and the new ships.
The question of course is where do you get the money from, and wether the Irish people and their elected representatives are willing to step up to the plate with regards to providing the Permanent Defence Forces with the infrastructure and tools it needs in my eye.
If you have about 20 billion handy we could this, not in our lifetimes:(:(:(0 -
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I'll elaborate for him (being ex PDF), rubbish chest rigs, body armour that's not balanced correctly. Rifles are long due an upgrade, just look at all the comparative work that has been done on the SA80. But to be realistic, and pragmatic in this economic climate why upgrade them when they aren't fired at anything outside of a figure 8 target on the range or a bit of drill!!In trained hands, maintained right they fire just fine though.
Not enough funding/effort put into live fire training is another example, anyone who thinks an annual exercise thrown together is enough clearly doesn't grasp the modern relevance of it.
As for training, fitness standards to get in are not robust enough. Too much time is spent bringing people up to competent standard. Having recruit training and 2-3 star training infantry based makes no sense. As not everyone will assume an ''infantry role'' after training.
I've seen people pulled out of the field for ceremonial duties in barracks and even been on an exercise that was cancelled because they needed bodies for a brigade athletics championship.
As for little intelligence? A good soldier doesn't need to be a rocket scientist he just needs the rare quality of common sense, which isn't that common. Plenty of enlisted have degrees, some are mickey mouse diplomas and certs in anything from event planning to sociology and politics. But some are quite high end like for instance a Cpl who instructed myself from the FAR who was a civil engineer but he was under utilised and clearly unfulfilled in his role. Plenty of qualified/ bright lads in signals, engineers and logistics too. There's no need for recruiting intelligence (qualifications wise) in the PDF as the really high spec technology isn't there. (And know Armoured Vehicle Recognition for the Javelin don't count
)
Just to be clear,I don't hold the rank and file of the PDF accountable for this. Its the higher ups, the colonels and such who have long forgotten the fundamentals of soldiering, do not put nearly enough pressure on the government to allow the PDF to deploy on more robust overseas operations (Syria is a step in the right direction though) and have no interest in cultivating a well trained enlisted body of the military.0 -
I'll elaborate for him (being ex PDF), rubbish chest rigs, body armour that's not balanced correctly.
The chest rig is ok. Obviously it is not "soldier proof" and the weak parts like the zip will obviously be the first to go. It just about holds up while crawling and I find it more comfortable than the PLCE for tactics. You get enough into it that you need but the inflexibility to replace busted buckles annoys the bollox off me. It's not great in the back of a MOWAG though. It's fine for the moment but I'm not convinced a modular system would be the way to go. I'm not even sure what would be a better replacement. They all have their flaws.
The body armour is a load of bollox! I won't even go into why...that was an ill thought out buy. It just goes to show what research the civvys do before they buy. AFAIK, the DF wanted a different system but it came down to budget.....the DF's biggest enemy.Rifles are long due an upgrade, just look at all the comparative work that has been done on the SA80. But to be realistic, and pragmatic in this economic climate why upgrade them when they aren't fired at anything outside of a figure 8 target on the range or a bit of drill!!In trained hands, maintained right they fire just fine though.
I am happy with the current rifle, the sights are being upgraded at the moment. It does the job at home and overseas. I don't think we need a swap out.....sure we'd just have to change the arms drill then.. I don't think they would need to be replaced even if we were firing at non figure 8 targets....why would we?Not enough funding/effort put into live fire training is another example, anyone who thinks an annual exercise thrown together is enough clearly doesn't grasp the modern relevance of it.
Agreed, LFTT is being taken more seriously now but we need to do more! Large scale exercise's have gone by the wayside in the last few years. I'd be happy even if each unit put more of an effort in, but it comes down to money again at the end of the day.As for training, fitness standards to get in are not robust enough. Too much time is spent bringing people up to competent standard.
Entrance fitness standard is fine. You know as well as I do that entrance fitness and tactics fitness is a different kind of fitness. That needs to be built up over time.Having recruit training and 2-3 star training infantry based makes no sense. As not everyone will assume an ''infantry role'' after training.
I don't agree, everyone should first and foremost be able to perform infantry tactics. It doesn't matter where the end up going. To suggest otherwise is very puzzling tbh.I've seen people pulled out of the field for ceremonial duties in barracks and even been on an exercise that was cancelled because they needed bodies for a brigade athletics championship.
Can you PM when that happened? An exercise cancelled because people were needed for athletics? What were you doing.....section tactics? That sounds wrong. I'm not saying it didn't happen but what type of exercise was it?Just to be clear,I don't hold the rank and file of the PDF accountable for this. Its the higher ups, the colonels and such who have long forgotten the fundamentals of soldiering, do not put nearly enough pressure on the government to allow the PDF to deploy on more robust overseas operations (Syria is a step in the right direction though) and have no interest in cultivating a well trained enlisted body of the military.
We will never be used to our full potential. I'm surprised the gave us the green light to even observe in Syria. It's a reason why we are not taken seriously tbh. The people in charge are more focused on "IT's and ranges" than developing us further than what we are currently doing.0 -
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