Small holding enterprises ??

GreatOaktree

Hi all,

Myself and my girlfriend have bought an old stone house and 5 acres. We are both qualified but out of work. I have bought all the seeds to start a small garden and built a chicken run but have no birds as of yet. I have all the forms for the herd and flock numbers. We would like to turn the land into some sort of an income. I milked 20 cows in a byre with my uncle until 2000. I do not plan on doing any dairying but would love to keep two pet cows. So in an attempt to earn a few squid I am either going to go down the road of either egg production or pork production.

If I decide on pastoral egg production where I keep 50 hens to a mobile house is there a restriction to the number of hens I can legally keep ? is pastoral chicken farming even legal ? would finding a distributor willing to deal with a small number of eggs (e.g.500) be impossible. From what I understand eggs would be worth about 23 cent each.

If I went down the road of free range pork production is it legal to keep the sows out in mobile ark's with the required heat pads all winter ? Is there restrictions regarding waste ? I could start of with two sows who would have possibly 20 piglets which would be worth around 250 euro and cost less than 100 to raise

Do you other small holders think either or both enterprises would be remotely profitable? The land is heavy soil but is south facing.

Would I have to go to agricultural college to to this ? would we be eligible for farm assist ?

Sorry if my questions are naive

Thanks

aonb

You need to get in touch with some organisations to get some pointers/ideas. Im sure the folk on here will come up with suggestions. Where are you based?

The farmers markets seem to be thriving - maybe you could meet with the people who run your local farmers market and talk to them about joining their market to sell eggs/meat

Check out
smallholding.ie
www.harmonyfarmireland.com
www.irishfowl.com
www.rdsu.ie

sounds like you are experienced so hope things go well for you - lots of hard work in front of you but this is the best time in our history to go in to smallholding I think. Good luck to you both

GreatOaktree

Thanks for the reply aonb, much appreciated.
We are in south east Leitrim. Upon cleaning out the house and shed we found the blades of a fingerbar mower, 2 old copper sprayers, a still functioning singer sowing machine, every bit for a number of horses and a carpenters tool box. The people who lived and worked this farm in years past must have been almost self sufficient and as an archaeologist I can tell you that the people of Ireland have lived and farmed for themselves for 6000 years. I feel it is a duty to my heritage to rely on the land as much as possible. I would like to keep Irish moiled or dexter cows and Irish grazer/tamworth pigs. I would also like to avoid the use of a tractor by making all animal housing mobile keeping animals and fodder crops in rotation accordingly.
Am I just a dreamer ??

MayoSalmon

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Thanks for the reply aonb, much appreciated.
We are in south east Leitrim. Upon cleaning out the house and shed we found the blades of a fingerbar mower, 2 old copper sprayers, a still functioning singer sowing machine, every bit for a number of horses and a carpenters tool box. The people who lived and worked this farm in years past must have been almost self sufficient and as an archaeologist I can tell you that the people of Ireland have lived and farmed for themselves for 6000 years. I feel it is a duty to my heritage to rely on the land as much as possible. I would like to keep Irish moiled or dexter cows and Irish grazer/tamworth pigs. I would also like to avoid the use of a tractor by making all animal housing mobile keeping animals and fodder crops in rotation accordingly.
Am I just a dreamer ??

No you certainly aren't dreaming. Will you have any other income coming in? It might be difficult at the start if you do not.

Smallholding is really increasing in popularity again. People lost there way during the boom and now are really finnding out what exactly they "need" in life to survive and thrive, I know I am anyways.

aonb

You are not dreaming, but you will make work a little bit harder for yourself, but at the end of the day, if you have the tools and you are willing to put the effort in, the old/uncommercialized ways are often the best. You might think about being certified organic - increase your prices a bit and maybe increase your chances of better market.
You should think very seriously about trying to get in to a more upmarket shop/cafe/market/hotel/whatever, the marketing and research you do in advance will definately pay off in this designer world where organic/brand name/cachet etc are all important, if you can do that, or indeed are interested in that world.
Phone a lot of the food market people, the upmarket vegetarian shops & resturants/healthfood shops/craft butchers & bakeries/ places like AVOCA etc etc - make a list! - you may not get to talk to a lot of them, but you know the advise and help you will get from some will help you think about the direction you want to go in.

You place sounds lovely - what kind of soil? Post some photos if you have them!?

bbam

How do you plan to raise 20 piglets for €100??

GreatOaktree

Thanks everone for your replies.
Here's a pic of the house and our standard poodle

and the roundhouse that I built for my thesis



Does anyone here produce and sell eggs at a farmers market or to a bakery ? would duck eggs be a better move ?
No bbam I meant less than 100 euro per piglet if feed is around 260 a ton and they will eat 1/4 ton by the time they reach the required 110 kg weight at 6or7 months old, taking into consideration vet, mortality and a return on housing construction.
I'm going to plant an orchard too, mostly plum and damson.

bbam

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Thanks everone for your replies.
Here's a pic of the house and our standard poodle

and the roundhouse that I built for my thesis



Does anyone here produce and sell eggs at a farmers market or to a bakery ? would duck eggs be a better move ?
No bbam I meant less than 100 euro per piglet if feed is around 260 a ton and they will eat 1/4 ton by the time they reach the required 110 kg weight at 6or7 months old, taking into consideration vet, mortality and a return on housing construction.
I'm going to plant an orchard too, mostly plum and damson.

I'm not sure about rearing pigs..
Lad that works for me reared them at the house for the last 10 years, stopped last year... Could only get €1/kg for the last batch he had ready and he reckoned they cost more to bring them to that..

We fatten a few here for the freezer and I wouldn't contemplate them as an earner... Nice to eat, but not profitable.

Did you say €0.23 an egg earlier ??
Free range local eggs here from the farm fresh shop for €1 a half dozen.. Again, we have a few chooks of our own, I couldn't see a worthwhile profit in them either... maybe in big numbers, but it would be small.

I love your work on the round house.. The girls here would love that..

GreatOaktree

Thats dissapointing bbam I'm sure I read somewhere that organic prices were not much better. How can prices be so poor ? how are piggeries surviving ?

I had a feeling €0.23cent would be on the high side but for the craic lets say it's €0.15 an egg and a hen would lay 200 eggs a year then she has produced €30.00 worth of eggs. If feed is €350 /ton and a laying hen will eat 1kg of feed a week then it costs €0.35 a week to feed or €18.00 a year. So if all is right with the world then each hen should be worth €12.00 not counting all the usual gambels you would take careing for a bird. Nice sums but I'm sure its not all that wonderful in the real world. Am i right in saying she would eat 1kg a week and it costs €350 /ton ? To but a laying hen would be about €05.00 ??

It is a massive shame that bee keeping wasn't in some way profitable. From what I understand the only bees breeding in Ireland last year were in man made hives yet the bee keeping community are being poorly supported and even if there was a demand for Irish honey they could not meet it nevermind the need to polinate every plant on the island.

This summer I hope to build a cobb wall around the round house and tatch the roof.

bbam

Piggerues are working on pure high numbers and intensive production methods. But I know locally they were loosing maybe €5-10 a pig last year. The most successful piggery here also mills his own feed which he sells commercially to others. Also, the typical "back yard" pig herd number only covers holding five pigs. To keep 20 you'll need to be registered as a commercial which I'd expect is mush more intensive process.
In the autumn and back end of the year you'll buy fattened gilt pigs on DD from €175-200

From your €12 you need to cover worming, mite control, bedding, egg cartons for your eggs, and then recover the hen price over 3 years. It would be prudent to build in a mortality factor, 3% would be used in general farming. How about preditor control ??

Honey, we were buying of a local beekeeper. €6 for 250g jar and it was fabulous. But the weather wiped out 50% of his hives in one go and he gave up. He now just keeps two hives for hobby purposes.

Please don't think I'm knocking what your at. But I've looked at many of those options. While the headline numbers look possible, when you trash out the details they barely cover their costs. Add in the lack of appetite here for genuine home produced goods, they are non viable in most areas.

GreatOaktree

Glad to have your advice bbam. I still think egg production could be worth while if i had a solid customer for the end product (Organic and pastoral).

What about inland fishfarming ? http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Fish-Farm/fishfarm.html and from there into hydroponics, say lettuce production ?

Did you just give up in the end bbam ????

Harmony Farm

Hi GreatOaktree,
Farmers markets and local customers would pay better price, then by word-of-mouth you may get more and more customers, particularly from health conscious people. Pastured poultry is best both for eggs and meat, because the nutrient, mineral, vitamin content of the eggs are great for maintaining (and restoring) health. Try to use that to promote your product. Also if you have pigs, you could follow them with your chooks, benefiting land, animals and produce.
Good luck!

SNIP

No Advertising allowed

bbam

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Glad to have your advice bbam. I still think egg production could be worth while if i had a solid customer for the end product (Organic and pastoral).

What about inland fishfarming ? http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Fish-Farm/fishfarm.html and from there into hydroponics, say lettuce production ?

Did you just give up in the end bbam ????

Never give up, that's quitters talk :rolleyes:..

We run a small beef herd, 21 yearling animals, very little return for the work but we enjoy it.
Working full time as well.
Have another small business started from home but its not land/farming based.
Have another idea in mind but it will take more thinking through and number crunching before comitting to it....


For me fishfarming & hydrophonics would be against the grain, intensive non natural processes which detract rather than add to the final product.

marizpan

Here is my 2 cents.

There is no easy money in small holding/ farming. By not easy, I mean I would rather go out and work part time and enjoy the farm the rest of the week. I would have a better life with a weekly/monthly reliable wage. No stress or worry about selling stock or produce etc.

I would set up a blog,an eBay account and esty account and sell related stuff via this medium. Easy and straight forward.

We milk a cow, keeps pigs, hens and a veg garden. We are also bee keepers. There really is no meaningful money in beekeeping or any of it. It is just a nice lifestyle that produces wonderful food.

Chisler2

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Glad to have your advice bbam. I still think egg production could be worth while if i had a solid customer for the end product (Organic and pastoral).

What about inland fishfarming ? http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Fish-Farm/fishfarm.html and from there into hydroponics, say lettuce production ?

Did you just give up in the end bbam ????

The reality is that if you want to live off/profit from food production you yourself become a product of a market or markets, and must conform! I completely endorse what others have posted here. Small-scale produce can be an aspect of "the good life". However if you need or desire a living wage or 'profit' from food-production, all evidence points to the probability that you go for a mono-culture and everything must be streamlined, cost-effective and conform to health and safety regulations.

Misty Moon

There are a myriad of blogs detailing people with similar plans to you. I don't think we're allowed post links to blogs 'cos it's too close to advertising but am I allowed to tell someone to google Musings from a Stonehead? It's a great blog written by a crofter in Scotland who raised pedigree pigs but had to cull his herd a couple of years ago because they weren't financially viable. He wasn't even trying to make a profit, they just had to make enough money to cover their own costs, so to speak. Perhaps with more room, which you have, you'd be able to manage a bit better. What is very interesting is that he goes into quite a bit of detail on the financial side of it. What you're talking about above isn't the whole story - it's not a case of feed in, eggs out and that's my profit, you have to calculate in all the other overheads, not to mention your time. Good luck with it.

GreatOaktree

At the end of the day I'm willing to do any amount of hard work as long as I can work with the land and be my own boss. We dont need much to survive and I am fairly confident that we can produce a lot of our own food as my girlfriend has experience with a veg garden and I have experience with animals.

That is all well and good, healthy and satisfying but we still need to partake in the whole monitory system. We need to pay for all the things that life throws at you and from what I have learned so far is that all the obvious options such as pork/beef/poultry/honey are not economically viable. Its cheaper to import than to grow our own or for the rest of our local community even though we live on one of the largest and most fertile islands on the planet.

I have to admit that this is frustrating and our only other option is to abandon the entire idea of growing our own and keeping the animals that we both love in order to go abroad for seasonal work in archaeology (the only archaeological excavations conducted in this country is rescue archaeology and thanks to the economic situation there is 100's of over qualified archaeologist fighting for the lowest of positions and for me to get experience I have to volunteer myself for free). I've spent years studying the culture of Ireland and if I'm in this country I can further my education part time and my own personal research adding to our understanding of people in the past.

A wee bit of determination can go along way but I'm getting fed up.

Hunter Mahan

I'm no expert, I just have a few bits on the go for myself, not for profit. But have you considered Alpacas? I was reading that their wool is worth a few bob and if you breed them, then there's some good money to be made I believe.

Big initial investment but low running costs I think.

They would be good for your poultry as they will keep the foxes at bay.

Also if you are planting fruit trees, why not try becoming a craft cider maker? Perhaps some local licensed premises might give you a go? Again I'm not sure how practical or cost effective this would be?

GreatOaktree

Hunter Mahan wrote: »

I'm no expert, I just have a few bits on the go for myself, not for profit. But have you considered Alpacas? I was reading that their wool is worth a few bob and if you breed them, then there's some good money to be made I believe.

Big initial investment but low running costs I think.

They would be good for your poultry as they will keep the foxes at bay.

Also if you are planting fruit trees, why not try becoming a craft cider maker? Perhaps some local licensed premises might give you a go? Again I'm not sure how practical or cost effective this would be?

I have considered Alpacas, in fact I visited an alpaca farm in Portugal and received a crash course in caring for them apparently they taste alot like goat, but as you said the initial investment is very high and my lack of knowledge about them put them slightly out of reach but perhaps I should do some revision.

Last year teagasc was pushing native Irish cherry which I considered planting however teagasc thought it would be uneconomical to plant only a few acres unfortunately. What would a cherry cider taste like I wonder ?

Hunter Mahan

Perhaps you need to start out small and build up to Alpacas or whatever? Fatten some turkeys for Christmas, sell veg at markets and get a part time job (easier said than done) to keep you ticking over and get some capital.

Maybe self sufficiency should be the initial aim with an eye to growing profits slowly. There will be trial and error but you'll end up finding somethings which will turn a profit hopefully.

Best of luck.

yellowlabrador

these days the motto seems to be 'added value'. You'd need to process some of your produce to make a profit. Jams, Bacon, pork scratchings, cheese, chutneys etc. If you are looking for a cheaper alternative to alpaca, look at mohair goats.

As an archeologist, could you set up something as archaeology in the community? Maybe have workshops or work with schools? ArcheaOsoup on youtube is doing this and is really friendly. Maybe get in touch with the local historical society for local history week. If you have the space and know other craftspeople, you could organise a paid event.
Please don't give up, we need more people like you.

colrow

If you had two house cows, I like Jerseys, and keep them in calf so they don' calve at the same time, you'll allways have too much milk, and after cheese and butter, you will need some porkers to drink the rest, I don't expect you'll make much money, but you will have nice pork bacon and hams etc, maybe sell a side or two to neighbours, or barter for something else you need, if you ai the cows with herefords or angus you'll have more beef than you can eat, so maybe you could sell the not so good cuts as dog mince. with your chickens youll have plenty of eggs and add a chicken to the prk and beef and you wont get too bored.

I have an american book called 5 acres and independence written in the 1930's, it reckons pork will feed you, ad for cash go for soft fruits, so a big tunnel stocked with early to late fruiting raspberries and strawberries, will bring in cash if you can find out how to market them.

Hope that helps with some ideas