Fortress Aviva?

errlloyd

I haven't been able to get tickets to any of the games yet, how has the Aviva been? On the TV it sounds like it's improved immeasurably since the Australia and Samoa games (the last games I was at).

Do people think we have a true fortress yet? Or is it still a work in progress?

CatFromHue

The team is playing better and then there was the BOD's last game thing for the Italian match, plus it's been good weather for all the games in 6N too.

All these make it easier for fans to get involved in the game.

LostArt

Playing better, scoring, winning. No real surprise the atmosphere has picked up tbh.

rrpc

The new surface is great too. The bad old days of the pitch coming up like a badly laid set of carpet tiles are long gone.

Henry Ford III

It's an awful place. Been to a few games there but won't bother from here on.

The 1st game there was actually dangerous - a serious crowd crush after the game.

oneshot0kill

I can only think of Rob Kearney looking at the threads title.

philstar

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's an awful place. Been to a few games there but won't bother from here on.

come off it:rolleyes: its a hell of alot better than the old lansdowne road which was quite simply an embarrassment a glorified hay barn

just a pity they didn't get permission for a full capacity north stand, then it would be a proper fortress like the millenium in cardiff

thomond2006

The atmosphere at the New Zealand gives me hope that the crowd at matches can engage more in general!

[Jackass]

The problem isn't so much to do with stadium as it is to do with the fans. There's absolutely no reason why the physical stadium would cause that problem...it is tight to the pitch and has roofing over the fans etc.

Ireland games are notorious for one off fans coming out for the novelty and a lot of corporate sales and non-regular fans (which is all fair enough), sometimes you feel it's more like a networking event than a sporting one.

I think with success the culture of support and atmosphere builds with expectation.

A good example is that Leinster games in the Aviva are far better atmosphere as you have at least 15,000 season ticket holders who go to games week in, week out and another 10 / 15,000 regular rugby goers, plus opposition travelling fans who are obviously pretty hardcore as apposed to one off fans if they're travelling to games, so club games in general generate much better atmosphere imo. Also there's way more colour and noise at club games.

England and Wales don't seem to have the same problems, but maybe that's to do with what I mentioned above about the "culture" of atmosphere being built at those games and success brings that. You can already notice better atmosphere at games in general since we've been doing better.

Maybe I'm off the mark, but it's weird, it just seems that way and it never used to be like that. I don't know why it is now. The old Lansdowne was one of the loudest and most amazing places to watch rugby for its atmosphere.

prospect

I'd agree with Jackass.

If there was some way to consolidate the fans into groups. The most recent game I attended at new Lansdowne road was NZ which had a cracking atmosphere. When the noise level dropped, there were one or two guys roaring at those around them trying to get something in the way of atmosphere going, but most of the punters around them were either too grand, cool or embarrassed to join in.

If these guys were in an area with like minded people, then I have little doubt that more would have joined them, and that has kind of a ripple effect that passes through the stadium, (even with opposition support upping their voices to try and be heard, which is great).

There will always be people who can't be bothered to contribute to the events atmosphere, but I'd say that applies to all sports in all countries. The challenge is to overcome that.

Yeah_Right

prospect wrote: »

I'd agree with Jackass.

If there was some way to consolidate the fans into groups. The most recent game I attended at new Lansdowne road was NZ which had a cracking atmosphere. When the noise level dropped, there were one or two guys roaring at those around them trying to get something in the way of atmosphere going, but most of the punters around them were either too grand, cool or embarrassed to join in.

If these guys were in an area with like minded people, then I have little doubt that more would have joined them, and that has kind of a ripple effect that passes through the stadium, (even with opposition support upping their voices to try and be heard, which is great).

There will always be people who can't be bothered to contribute to the events atmosphere, but I'd say that applies to all sports in all countries. The challenge is to overcome that.

Like a Mexican wave??

The atmosphere at the NZ game was brilliant.

WeleaseWoderick

I think I've to about 15 games in the stadium since it reopened (7 Ireland and 8 Leinster) and up until the New Zealand game, the atmosphere had generally been far better at the Leinster games.

The atmosphere in the New Zealand game, Italy game & to a lesser extent the Scotland game (wasn't at the Wales one) was every bit a match for the crowd at the Leinster games.

As others have said, when the team is playing well, it gives the fans something to cheer about. There certainly isn't any fundamental issue with the design of the place in terms of acoustics.

I'd imagine the atmosphere at next year's game against England will be off the charts if both teams continue their current level of improvement.

Dave_The_Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The atmosphere at the NZ game was brilliant.

I think that was, if not a once off, then certainly the extreme end of the scale - it was superb. This was probably due to the occasion, the fact it was the All Blacks, our first effort under the NZ Schmidt, the fact we played out of our skins and almost did it. I've probably been to a dozen games in the Aviva, and more before in Croke Park (and previous in the old stadium). It's never been as good as that day - except maybe England 2007 - nor would I expect it to be.

It's the "ordinary" games that the atmosphere needs to improve for. Times when the team isn't playing well, that the crowd needs to try and give them a lift (if indeed that works).

Neil3030

I've been perfecting opening out my larynx and breathing from from the diaphragm for my "HEAVES"

A man turned around on Saturday to complement me, saying they were "seismic"

I think I've found my special skill!

Neil3030

As much as it was for BOD, I think the atmosphere also picked up at the very end of the Italian match for the sheer novelty of an Irish team showing the ruthlessness in rushing to put a score up (after the try and quick conversion on 78 mins), and actually seeing it pay off when McGrath clattered over.

overshoot

prospect wrote: »

I'd agree with Jackass.

If there was some way to consolidate the fans into groups. The most recent game I attended at new Lansdowne road was NZ which had a cracking atmosphere. When the noise level dropped, there were one or two guys roaring at those around them trying to get something in the way of atmosphere going, but most of the punters around them were either too grand, cool or embarrassed to join in.

If these guys were in an area with like minded people, then I have little doubt that more would have joined them, and that has kind of a ripple effect that passes through the stadium, (even with opposition support upping their voices to try and be heard, which is great).

There will always be people who can't be bothered to contribute to the events atmosphere, but I'd say that applies to all sports in all countries. The challenge is to overcome that.

i think thats why i hate seated stadiums so much, its the effort you have to go through to link up with your friends, especially if thats a group who like to shout/cheer/sing
an unreserved section would make life easier and allow for core groups who can start things and once a chant gains traction it spreads

and to blame the atmosphere on the stadium is a cop out, iv been there for great ones especially the ulster Edinburgh Semi and theres been good FAI cup finals with it half or ever 1/3rd full

Prawo_Jazdy

surprise surprise

ssaye2

Hi Gerry

/waves

[Jackass]

Gerry has an opinion piece due before midnight on Sunday for the morning papers. If you could try and have the topic and consensus opinion posted by noon on Friday, that would be great guys.

Also, please watch your spelling and grammar as he doesn't want to have to waste time with spell check after the copy and paste.

Cheers.

Neil3030

Let's play phonetic Gerry Bingo!

Cow Ching Tikkussshhh

ionadnapokot

Terrible atmosphere at games. Admittedly the NZ game had a good atmosphere.
Here a re a few examples of games that ive attended an was simply blown away by the visual spectacle and the noise.
St Jacob Park

Stade marcel michelin

Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán Stadium
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Estadio_Ram%C3%B3n_S%C3%A1nchez_Pizju%C3%A1n_Gol_Norte_tifo-2007-04-05.jpg

You cant beat a stadium that has stands close to the pitch. The new Lansdowne road (Always was. Always will be) is simply a bad design. Acoustics are terrible.
The view from the lower tiers are also terrible. They are not steeped high enough.

.ak

I'm sorry, but the idea that acoustics and stadium design are responsible for poor atmosphere is ridiculous. Were you at the NZ game, or the Leicester game, or the Toulouse game? The stadium was positively heaving, especially for the Toulouse game.

I've been to plenty of poorly designed stadiums with amazing atmosphere. Why is that? Because it's the event/fan/team that create the atmosphere.

Aviva is a great modern stadia, considering the foot print. I wish it was a bit steeper but what can you do. Good design considering the limitations.

Neil3030

Would have loved to see the old North Terrace also given 3 tiers but alas, planning laws would never have allowed it. That's the only gripe I could possibly find. Beautiful stadium.

sydthebeat

ionadnapokot wrote: »

You cant beat a stadium that has stands close to the pitch. The new Lansdowne road (Always was. Always will be) is simply a bad design. Acoustics are terrible.
The view from the lower tiers are also terrible. They are not steeped high enough.

Tell that to the Toulon and Clermont fans who made last year's hec final an excellent atmosphere.

overshoot

Neil3030 wrote: »

Would have loved to see the old North Terrace also given 3 tiers but alas, planning laws would never have allowed it. That's the only gripe I could possibly find. Beautiful stadium.

well the truss restricting the view is a issue too but thats a knock on effect of the above

matthew8

To be honest if the Irish team had been anything to get excited about from 2011-2013 I don't think anyone would consider the atmosphere in the stadium to be an issue.

ionadnapokot

.ak wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the idea that acoustics and stadium design are responsible for poor atmosphere is ridiculous. Were you at the NZ game, or the Leicester game, or the Toulouse game? The stadium was positively heaving, especially for the Toulouse game.

I've been to plenty of poorly designed stadiums with amazing atmosphere. Why is that? Because it's the event/fan/team that create the atmosphere.

Aviva is a great modern stadia, considering the foot print. I wish it was a bit steeper but what can you do. Good design considering the limitations.

I was at all of those games yes. And the Toulouse game and Leicester game were ok atmospheres. Great games tho. Nz had a good atmosphere as i said.
Its not ridiculous btw to state that stadium design has an effect on the atmosphere. Its an opinion. An opinion based on Design (Architecture, Engineering, Lighting and Acoustics). Its not just about making it stand up.

Podge_irl

Neil3030 wrote: »

Would have loved to see the old North Terrace also given 3 tiers but alas, planning laws would never have allowed it.

Also the buildings in the way...

OldRio

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I was at all of those games yes. And the Toulouse game and Leicester game were ok atmospheres. Great games tho. Nz had a good atmosphere as i said.
Its not ridiculous btw to state that stadium design has an effect on the atmosphere. Its an opinion. An opinion based on Design (Architecture, Engineering, Lighting and Acoustics). Its not just about making it stand up.

I was reading about the NFL team Seattle. Their fans with the help of the design of the stadium are officially the loudest in the world. It seems a mini earthquake was caused by the noise.
The acoustics are magnified because of design.

ionadnapokot

The 12th man!

.ak

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I was at all of those games yes. And the Toulouse game and Leicester game were ok atmospheres. Great games tho. Nz had a good atmosphere as i said.
Its not ridiculous btw to state that stadium design has an effect on the atmosphere. Its an opinion. An opinion based on Design (Architecture, Engineering, Lighting and Acoustics). Its not just about making it stand up.

That doesn't account for the fact stadiums with poor design in terms of lighting, acoustics, engineering etc can produce massive atmospheres.

The Leicester, Toulouse games were more than 'ok' atmosphere wise, I think most people would agree with that.

ionadnapokot

Id agree that design isnt everything. You could have the most atmospheric place on the planet but if nobody says anything or cheers it wouldnt be very atmospheric in terms of sound.
ive been to games in the old Lansdowne (brutal design, but had terraces!) were the atmosphere was brilliant. Ireland v 'Stalia '91, v Portugal '95, v Croatia '98, v Holland '01.
But lets take the NZ game as a case study. It was a good atmosphere. But it took a great display to rouse the crowd. Everyone was up and out of there seats (not going to the bar for beer) and cheering the team on. That did create "an atmosphere". You would be dead not to feel that. But bring that game and passion to a well designed stadium (St Jakob, Stade Marcel, Ramón Sánchez-Pizjuán) and you would get something really special.

.ak

I thought it was something really special.

The only game I've been to that matched it was the 2011 HEC final.

ceannbui

Fair to say it was made more to look pretty than with any sense of aiding an atmosphere?

Trojan

Terraces. Terraces. Terraces.

I don't give a damn what BOD thinks, it's a fact that they make a world of difference.

Neil3030

Trojan wrote: »

Terraces. Terraces. Terraces.

I don't give a damn what BOD thinks, it's a fact that they make a world of difference.

Sadly, sharing with the troglodytic spherical lot precludes such an arrangement.

Podge_irl

Neil3030 wrote: »

Sadly, sharing with the troglodytic spherical lot precludes such an arrangement.

Just tell them they're not allowed use the North Stand. Not like they're in dire need of the extra capacity...

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

I thought it was something really special.

The only game I've been to that matched it was the 2011 HEC final.

The atmosphere at the NZ game was amazing. Simply amazing. It put paid to the notion there is anything wrong with the stadium. Even the England game in 2011 was good.

The simple fact of the matter is that the crowd make the atmosphere. Not the stadium. A stadium can help add to it, but if there's nothing from the crowd it doesn't matter a tap how good, bad or indifferent the stadium design is.

UtopianWarlord

Don't think people can blame the stadium design. The atmosphere at the NZ game was great. And for all the excuses thrown out about Croke Park being too far away from the pitch, the atmosphere at the Munster-Leinster semi and the game in 07 against England was amazing. The crowd makes the atmosphere, not the design

who_me

molloyjh wrote: »

The atmosphere at the NZ game was amazing. Simply amazing. It put paid to the notion there is anything wrong with the stadium. Even the England game in 2011 was good.

The simple fact of the matter is that the crowd make the atmosphere. Not the stadium. A stadium can help add to it, but if there's nothing from the crowd it doesn't matter a tap how good, bad or indifferent the stadium design is.

I don't think anyone's saying "if you have a great stadium you'll have a great atmosphere", but various stadium factors can help/hinder how good the atmosphere is.

How far you are from the pitch is a huge factor. Terracing allows noisier fans to group together, whereas with an all seater it's a bit of a lucky bag. Take a noisy group, split them up into groups of 2 or 3 and spread them out over a stadium and they may be less likely to start any shouts/chants if those around them are quiet. And it's hard to be as raucous sitting down as when you're stuck in the jammed terrace that's heaving every time there's a chance of a score. Plus, with allocated seating people often enter the stadium later (even by Lansdowne Road standards! ) which doesn't help the build-up. I've seen lots of people in the premium level just stay inside the bar during the game, leaving empty seats, you wouldn't see that so much in the old stadium - unless stuck in the bar/toilet queues!

fryup

Trojan wrote: »

Terraces. Terraces. Terraces.

you gotta be kiddin

standing in the wet and the cold getting elbowed in the ribs and then the big crush as you leave, fcuk that no thanks never again i say

CatFromHue

Actually you don't get that wet in the terrace as everyone is so close together. It's usually just your shoulders and head, maybe a bit of your upper chest but that's it really.

It's warmer too.

Yeah_Right

Trojan wrote: »

Terraces. Terraces. Terraces.

Lets go back to cold, soggy chips and warm beer as well. Also reduce the number of toilets don't clean them and remove the roof over the spectators and the big screens. Ahhhh the good old days.

molloyjh

I'd be a huge advocate of the terrace too tbh. Wouldn't dream of going anywhere else in the RDS. The cold and soggy chips and warm beer though are a no-no. Eddies and hip flasks now is another story....

.ak

I generally try to get tickets in the terrace for away games. Easier to get together with the away fans but you also have the banter with the home fans. Don't think seating allows that.

However, in large stadiums such as the aviva terracing just isn't practical, and that's life.

overshoot

.ak wrote: »

However, in large stadiums such as the aviva terracing just isn't practical, and that's life.

horse crap! how the hell does the much larger croke park manage? borussia dortmund stadium is 80k stading 65k seated and is known for one of the best atmospheres in europe... i could go on

hmmm

Too many corporate tickets, filled with people who vary from uninterested to enthusiastic but clueless. Lots of drinking pints and looking at the tv screens.

Too many people from D4 who politely clap the opposition and look offended if someone is cheering or shouting near them.

Too few hardcore Munster and Leinster rugby fans screaming abuse at everyone they see on the pitch. Go to an inter provincial match and you'll find atmosphere. You'll never be a "fortress" without an edge to the crowd.

It's always been like this, but I think the corporate element has begun to really take over. There's a way to fix this, but it would come at a cost to the IRFU and the clubs.

chupacabra

Does anyone have any estimate as to what the capacity would be if the north stand was the same size as the south stand? 70,000+?

Podge_irl

Atmosphere =/= abuse

CatFromHue

hmmm wrote: »

Too many corporate tickets, filled with people who vary from uninterested to enthusiastic but clueless. Lots of drinking pints and looking at the tv screens.

Too many people from D4 who politely clap the opposition and look offended if someone is cheering or shouting near them.

Too few hardcore Munster and Leinster rugby fans screaming abuse at everyone they see on the pitch. Go to an inter provincial match and you'll find atmosphere. You'll never be a "fortress" without an edge to the crowd.

It's always been like this, but I think the corporate element has begun to really take over. There's a way to fix this, but it would come at a cost to the IRFU and the clubs.

Lol the auld D4 people again

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

hmmm wrote: »

Too many corporate tickets, filled with people who vary from uninterested to enthusiastic but clueless. Lots of drinking pints and looking at the tv screens.

Too many people from D4 who politely clap the opposition and look offended if someone is cheering or shouting near them.

Too few hardcore Munster and Leinster rugby fans screaming abuse at everyone they see on the pitch. Go to an inter provincial match and you'll find atmosphere. You'll never be a "fortress" without an edge to the crowd.

It's always been like this, but I think the corporate element has begun to really take over. There's a way to fix this, but it would come at a cost to the IRFU and the clubs.

god almighty I'd hit to sit near you at a match