The college epidemic of the last 15 years?

ForeverYoung90

I am a two time college drop-out.I was your average student in school with average grades.
Over the last 15 or so years in leaving cert year, its a case of what are you doing in college next year?I believe it is sad that every student is pushed towards the college option after school.
In the 80s and 90s only the academically inclined were encouraged to further their education and rightfully so.
There has been a high drop out rate over the years as a result.There are other options out there and school students should be made aware of this.

hairyprincess

I need to shave

RobbingBandit

Why shave I like a little mystery.

aphex™

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

I am a two time college drop-out.

Can I ask why you dropped out? A staggering number of people never make it into 2nd year in any course I've taken and I always assumed it was because of drinking....

littleblackDRS

But in the 80's, you only needed an intercert to get a job. Now you need at least a Masters to get many entry level jobs. This kind of thinking really annoys me. It's not the 80's or 90's anymore. The world has moved on.

pajor

One of my college lecturers (ironic?) has touched on this.

In Ireland at least 80% of school finishers go to college.

In Germany this figure is less than 40% (or something like that). The main reason for this being, that there are about 3 times more vocational and skills courses available in Germany.

His main example is that we're an island nation and there's no marine mechanic courses at all.

thestar

You definitely do have a point, I will be finished college this August after 5 years and would not be very confident of getting a job. On the other hand, I have friends working out in Australia that I went to school with. A couple of these have very poor leaving certs while more have the Leaving Cert Applied. This said, they are making twice as much money as I will when I'm qualified and IF I get a job. They are working hard but education is not the be all and end all

Diabhal Beag

Thought this would be about chlamydia

Eoin247

aphex™ wrote: »

Can I ask why you dropped out? A staggering number of people never make it into 2nd year in any course I've taken and I always assumed it was because of drinking....

It's usualy because of drink and pot. At least that's the case for the people i know for the mostpart.

Bubbaclaus

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

I believe it is sad that every student is pushed towards the college option after school.

Why so? Going to college should be encouraged.

kneemos

pajor wrote: »

One of my college lecturers (ironic?) has touched on this.

In Ireland at least 80% of school finishers go to college.

In Germany this figure is less than 40% (or something like that). The main reason for this being, that there are about 3 times more vocational and skills courses available in Germany.

His main example is that we're an island nation and there's no marine mechanic courses at all.

Germany has a huge industrial sector,apprenticeships are needed and there's a job at the end of it.

Femme_Fatale

I regretted when I dropped out too OP. Don't worry, you can go back.

Thomas D

The amount of dole wasters I know in their 30s going to college is pathetic.

Tooooo

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Why so? Going to college should be encouraged.

It should be encouraged only if it suits the aptitude of the individual.

The Diabolical Monocle

pajor wrote: »

One of my college lecturers (ironic?) has touched on this.

In Ireland at least 80% of school finishers go to college.

In Germany this figure is less than 40% (or something like that). The main reason for this being, that there are about 3 times more vocational and skills courses available in Germany.

His main example is that we're an island nation and there's no marine mechanic courses at all.

Yep. The mittlestadt. Europe needs more of these and less of made in China.

Femme_Fatale

It's because of the abolition of fees in the 90s too I suppose.

I see people go on about people being forced into going to third-level, but there are still plenty of people not doing so and getting trades, doing PLC courses, working straight after school etc.

In my personal experience, it's only as you get older that you realise how beneficial having a third level qualification is.

Czarcasm

There are always options OP, but further education gives you MORE options in the long term, regardless of what you term "academic ability". The reason for the high drop-out rate in third level education is because young people aren't being spoon-fed any more and as young adults are expected to fend for themselves and be responsible for their own future.

Many young people are unprepared for this particular "revelation", and are unable to cope with the responsibility, so they take the easy option and drop out rather than put in the work required. In order to prevent this, students should be preparing early in secondary school for third level education and have a definite career in mind before they go playing "pin the tail on the donkey" with their CAO choices in fifth year.

weirdspider

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

I am a two time college drop-out.I was your average student in school with average grades.
Over the last 15 or so years in leaving cert year, its a case of what are you doing in college next year?I believe it is sad that every student is pushed towards the college option after school.
In the 80s and 90s only the academically inclined were encouraged to further their education and rightfully so.
There has been a high drop out rate over the years as a result.There are other options out there and school students should be made aware of this.

Students with a university-level education will be more likely to build Ireland's economy so of course secondary school students should be strongly encouraged to enter third level education.

weirdspider

Thomas D wrote: »

The amount of dole wasters I know in their 30s going to college is pathetic.

So? Perhaps they didn't value further education in their younger days and have only learned its significance from their days "dole wasting". At least they're going to college. I can't imagine its easy for a 30+ year old, particularly those with commitments such as a family.

UtopianWarlord

I think a lot of people go to college too soon, when they'd be better working for a year or two out of school. The dropout rate in Carlow IT was 23%, which is massive, not sure what it is in other colleges but you always notice a big drop off from first to second year in particular. But its not that, there's a lot of people I know who have gone back to college to study a different degree, something totally different from what they did first time round

steddyeddy

Thomas D wrote: »

The amount of dole wasters I know in their 30s going to college is pathetic.

That's a pathetic statement. Fair play to people who have the balls to go back to college.

Idbatterim

they would think twice about it if werent as massively subsidized as it is...

Femme_Fatale

How can a person who is in full-time education be a "dole waster"?

MadYaker

Theres a push towards going to 3rd level in Ireland because its pretty much impossible to get anything other than a minimum wage job if you don't have a good degree.

Thomas D

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's a pathetic statement. Fair play to people who have the halls to go back to college.

Nah, they're wasters. Same people have had a few cracks at "college" over their lives.

Thomas D

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

How can a person who is in full-time education be a "dole waster"?

They're worse than a dole waster. At least hte person on the dole is being honest about their status. These are people that would see themselves above minimum wage workers and welfare. But they've likely spent 80% of their 20s on welfare. You get to tell people you're going to college rather than telling them you're an unemployable waster. Back to education is the biggest scam going. It was meant to be lip service for knackers that never got a shot at education in their younger days.

MadYaker

I'm almost finished now. I have always had good grades so I should be coming out with at least a second class honors degree. However job prospects for me in Ireland are still not great, about 60% of people who finish my course go on to do postgrad which I'm not really interested in so I haven't a clue what I'm going to do but at the moment I'm thinking Canada or New Zealand for a few years anyway.

But if I didn't go to college at all id be on the dole unless I emigrated.

Menas

There were high drop out rates in the 80s and 90s too. Back then we were lauded for the high education levels of our workforce. Good that we did not rest on our laurels and more are getting a 3rd level.
But, some people are not suitable for formal 3rd level courses and I believe we need a better focus on helping those aquire the skills they need to flourish.

Thomas D

MadYaker wrote: »

I'm almost finished now. I have always had good grades so I should be coming out with at least a second class honors degree. However job prospects for me in Ireland are still not great, about 60% of people who finish my course go on to do postgrad which I'm not really interested in so I haven't a clue what I'm going to do but at the moment I'm thinking Canada or New Zealand for a few years anyway.

But if I didn't go to college at all id be on the dole unless I emigrated.

How do you not know what you're doing?

Surely you've been researching graduate employers since second year? Have you applied to any in September?

MadYaker

Thomas D wrote: »

They're worse than a dole waster. At least hte person on the dole is being honest about their status. These are people that would see themselves above minimum wage workers and welfare. But they've likely spent 80% of their 20s on welfare. You get to tell people you're going to college rather than telling them you're an unemployable waster. Back to education is the biggest scam going. It was meant to be lip service for knackers that never got a shot at education in their younger days.

Or maybe they are people who never went to college, got jobs in construction during the boom straight after school and are now unemployed so they are going back to education to better their lives and make themselves more employable?? I've met a few of these in college myself and thats usually the backstory.

Why are you being so cynical and ignorant? You sound extremely bitter. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get over it someday.

Thomas D

MadYaker wrote: »

Or maybe they are people who never went to college, got jobs in construction during the boom straight after school and are now unemployed so they are going back to education to better their lives and make themselves more employable?? I've met a few of these in college myself and thats usually the backstory.

Why are you being so cynical and ignorant? You sound extremely bitter. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get over it someday.

They have no chance in the employment market so why bother?

goose2005

pajor wrote: »

One of my college lecturers (ironic?) has touched on this.

In Ireland at least 80% of school finishers go to college.

In Germany this figure is less than 40% (or something like that). The main reason for this being, that there are about 3 times more vocational and skills courses available in Germany.

His main example is that we're an island nation and there's no marine mechanic courses at all.

Ah shure the brits took all our marine tradition off us and we never bothered building it back up (just as 'they' cut down all our forests and we never bothered afforesting either)

MadYaker

Thomas D wrote: »

How do you not know what you're doing?

Surely you've been researching graduate employers since second year? Have you applied to any in September?

I know what I'm doing now, not sure what I plan on doing after graduation. I have been researching employers and most in my field only employ people with an Masters or a Doctorate, which I don't really want to do.

flas

MadYaker wrote: »

Theres a push towards going to 3rd level in Ireland because its pretty much impossible to get anything other than a minimum wage job if you don't have a good degree.

this is the problem and will be why our country will go from boom to bust,we need more industry in the country,more manufacturing, and until this is realised you will still have people leaving school at 17/18,starting a course in college only to realise that they have no interest in doing it for the rest of their lives. degres are worth sweet **** all now.

we are creating a generation of pencil pushers.

Femme_Fatale

Such unhappiness from people who wish they went to/stayed in college.

Menas

Thomas D wrote: »

They have no chance in the employment market so why bother?

Have you ever had a tough break or been out of work?

xfireblade

Thomas D wrote: »

The amount of dole wasters I know in their 30s going to college is pathetic.

you would rather they sit on their ass?

MadYaker

flas wrote: »

this is the problem and will be why our country will go from boom to bust,we need more industry in the country,more manufacturing, and until this is realised you will still have people leaving school at 17/18,starting a course in college only to realise that they have no interest in doing it for the rest of their lives. degres are worth sweet **** all now.

we are creating a generation of pencil pushers.

I don't agree that we will go from boom to bust and are creating a generation of pencil pushers. Better education = better jobs.

Ireland has no natural resources and no history in manufacturing so that industry is never going to take hold here. Especially when you consider that most manufacturing can be done in Asia for half what it would cost here.

Instead we've carved out a niche for ourselves catering to multinationals who want to pay fúck all tax and need well educated english speaking workers and its worked quite well to be honest.

thelad95

Czarcasm wrote: »

There are always options OP, but further education gives you MORE options in the long term, regardless of what you term "academic ability". The reason for the high drop-out rate in third level education is because young people aren't being spoon-fed any more and as young adults are expected to fend for themselves and be responsible for their own future.

Many young people are unprepared for this particular "revelation", and are unable to cope with the responsibility, so they take the easy option and drop out rather than put in the work required. In order to prevent this, students should be preparing early in secondary school for third level education and have a definite career in mind before they go playing "pin the tail on the donkey" with their CAO choices in fifth year.

So you should be making career choices when you are 12 or 13?

In my opinion there aren't enough good quality further education courses available to people. Of course there are PLC's but a lot of these are very general and leave little room for advancement. I am repeating the Leaving Cert this year and from my old year I know at least 10 who have dropped out from about 70 who went to third level.

Thomas D

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Have you ever had a tough break or been out of work?

No, and not through luck.

Worked hard, partied hard in college. Top of my class. Got a proper internship before I finished. Got a big scholarship to do a phd. Worked right after that and now work abroad.

There was no big plan but just a goal to do well in whatever I was doing and keep as many doors open as possible. 30 year old arts grads have NO chance, believe me. A complete waste of money. I'd rather they worked in mcdonalds or on small odd jobs.

Thomas D

MadYaker wrote: »

I don't agree that we will go from boom to bust and are creating a generation of pencil pushers. Better education = better jobs.

Ireland has no natural resources and no history in manufacturing so that industry is never going to take hold here. Especially when you consider that most manufacturing can be done in Asia for half what it would cost here.

Instead we've carved out a niche for ourselves catering to multinationals who want to pay fúck all tax and need well educated english speaking workers and its worked quite well to be honest.

THey don't give a **** about our graduates. They look for people all over europe and the tax scams are 99% the reason they are here.

Femme_Fatale

MadYaker wrote: »

Better education = better jobs.

And better for society overall.

People who bitch about education (either people who have completed third level education and now strangely sneer at others in third level education, or people who never had an interest in third level) are only looking at it from their selfish perspective - they're not for a second considering the bigger societal picture.

Andy-Pandy

Thomas D wrote: »

They're worse than a dole waster. At least hte person on the dole is being honest about their status. These are people that would see themselves above minimum wage workers and welfare. But they've likely spent 80% of their 20s on welfare. You get to tell people you're going to college rather than telling them you're an unemployable waster. Back to education is the biggest scam going. It was meant to be lip service for knackers that never got a shot at education in their younger days.

Rubbish, I went back to college at the age of 32, didn't spend a day of my 20s on the dole. My friend who went back at the same time was offered a PhD straight after her degree. Mature students go back to college because they want to study the subject and usually excel because of it.

cletus van damme

weirdspider wrote: »

Students with a university-level education will be more likely to build Ireland's economy so of course secondary school students should be strongly encouraged to enter third level education.

i don't agree - if you want to work for big business and/or banking yeah.
but self employed and entrepreneurs need it less so.
since the SME sector is the biggest employer perhaps we need to teach different skills rather than sending people en mass to college to learn like drones how to get jobs rather than create stuff.

not that I'm against college but i think it's not for everybody.
or a prerequiste to success.

Ilyana 2.0

I'm all for people being encouraged to go on to third level if they want to do so. I don't agree with the pressure on some school leavers to have their life mapped out by the time they're 18.

It's not really the done thing to take time out after the Leaving Cert to try get experience/insight into the area they think they might be interested in, which is a shame. It would prevent people going into unsuitable courses or directions. Gap years do have their uses if they're done right.

If gap years were more prevalent, student numbers might fall but so would drop out rates.

Thomas D

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

Rubbish, I went back to college at the age of 32, didn't spend a day of my 20s on the dole. My friend who went back at the same time was offered a PhD straight after her degree. Mature students go back to college because they want to study the subject and usually excel because of it.

So where are you and your friend working now?

Andy-Pandy

Thomas D wrote: »

So where are you and your friend working now?

I was working for a company up until Christmas, sole trader as of tomorrow. Friend doing PhD and volunteering. Both contributing very happily.

Thomas D

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

I was working for a company up until Christmas, sole trader as of tomorrow. Friend doing PhD and volunteering. Both contributing very happily.

Not contributing any PAYE by the sounds of it.

ardle1

littleblackDRS wrote: »

But in the 80's, you only needed an intercert to get a job. Now you need at least a Masters to get many entry level jobs. This kind of thinking really annoys me. It's not the 80's or 90's anymore. The world has moved on.

Aye, that's because all the manufacturing and industrial jobs have gone, and are now getting a whole new lease off life in China! China Rules for that particular reason, bring back the 80s and 90s......

Czarcasm

thelad95 wrote: »

So you should be making career choices when you are 12 or 13?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, and they should be working towards that goal and preparing for it from the minute they enter first year.

In my opinion there aren't enough good quality further education courses available to people. Of course there are PLC's but a lot of these are very general and leave little room for advancement. I am repeating the Leaving Cert this year and from my old year I know at least 10 who have dropped out from about 70 who went to third level.

You're proving my point there really. They weren't prepared for third level education where they wouldn't be spoon-fed and were expected to be responsible for their own future.

Andy-Pandy

Thomas D wrote: »

Not contributing any PAYE by the sounds of it.

Both of us are, you can keep on digging if you like.