THe Rape of Men the darknest secret of War rape culture. TRIGGER WARNING UPSETTING

Lou.m

TRIGGER WARNING THE STORIES IN THIS ARTICLE BELOW MAY BE UPSETTING AND ARE DETAILED


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men?CMP=twt_gu

Remember those pictures of US soldiers of both genders humiliating male prisoners in Iraq?

It struck me then this is part of a wider culture.

Rape is used as a means of social control a lot. It was said that systematic rape of young men and boys was part of the regime in Syria.

In El Salvador, 76% of male political prisoners surveyed in the 1980s described at least one incidence of sexual torture. A study of 6,000 concentration-camp inmates in Sarajevo found that 80% of men reported having been raped.

I think rape being used systematically needs to be brought out into the open and authorities need to hold their hands up to it.

It also happens to children.

We know it happens to women too.

And in a way it was easy to say it was about sexual desire. And now we see they still want to stick to this idea of rape even with men and using it to blame the victims.

In Uganda, survivors are at risk of arrest by police, as they are likely to assume that they're gay – a crime in this country and in 38 of the 53 African nations. They will probably be ostracised by friends, rejected by family and turned away by the UN and the myriad international NGOs that are equipped, trained and ready to help women. They are wounded, isolated and in danger. In the words of Owiny: "They are despised."

It is further complicated by their disgusting homophobia. So perversely their homophobia allows their authorities to get away with rape.

Because there has been so little research into the rape of men during war, it's not possible to say with any certainty why it happens or even how common it is – although a rare 2010 survey, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that 22% of men and 30% of women in Eastern Congo reported conflict-related sexual violence. As for Atim, she says: "Our staff are overwhelmed by the cases we've got, but in terms of actual numbers? This is the tip of the iceberg."

Later on I speak with Dr Angella Ntinda, who treats referrals from the RLP. She tells me: "Eight out of 10 patients from RLP will be talking about some sort of sexual abuse."

"Eight out of 10 men?" I clarify.

"No. Men and women," she says.

"What about men?"

"I think all the men."

I am aghast.

"All of them?" I say.

"Yes," she says. "All the men."

It is time for international action on systematic sexual violence.

Perhaps there needs to be a specific campaign for men as it appears society needs to admit to this. Also they need to realize male victims should feel no shame etc.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

is this what you read when you come home after a Friday night session?!

Smithwicks Man

georgiecasey wrote: »

is this what you read when you come home after a Friday night session?!

Honestly was thinking the same. Too much at 6am

Lou.m

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Honestly was thinking the same. Too much at 6am

It will keep till monday so.

Menas

Why am i getting warned ?

jellyboy

Hi op
Thanks for posting this ,i read this a few weeks ago on the guardian website and was trying to find it to repost it on the gentlemen's club forum..

The whole debate about the effects of male rape and sexual abuse in Ireland has to begin,we are silenced by ignorance…

I personally believe its the last great taboo..

Allthough AH is probably the worst place to post this ..

Watch how this is ripped apart, instead of being viewed as a helpful post to men have being abused..

Voglio

Lou you have issues.

telekon

It's the weekend!!!! Wahoooo....










....aww.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

mother of god don't bring that trigger warning bull**** to boards, please

Autonomous Cowherd

I remember years and years ago when the Internet was a mere infant posting a comment about rape (can't even remember where) and I received a PM from a man in Cork who had been gang-raped on his way home from a club. He described the utter lack of public awareness about the effects of this heinous assault on men, and how he felt he had to remain quiet. He had such a wise nobility to him, this anonymous man, and wrote so movingly of the distress of having been so randomly and greviously violated, that ever since then whenever the word rape is mentioned I never considered it a gender-specific crime.

Lou.m

Voglio wrote: »

Lou you have issues.

I actually think people balking at this topic or laughing have issues.

I don't mean to be overly solemn but there.

Lou.m

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I remember years and years ago when the Internet was a mere infant posting a comment about rape (can't even remember where) and I received a PM from a man in Cork who had been gang-raped on his way home from a club. He described the utter lack of public awareness about the effects of this heinous assault on men, and how he felt he had to remain quiet. He had such a wise nobility to him, this anonymous man, and wrote so movingly of the distress of having been so randomly and greviously violated, that ever since then whenever the word rape is mentioned I never considered it a gender-specific crime.

In a way though it is gender specific society tends to react differently to each gender and it is used differently against each gender. Obviously the emotional damage is equally awful.

I fear a lot of men feel there are expectations placed upon them.

You can be more dismissive of male rape in conversation. I think even men do it. I think they would be reluctant to do so with female rape victims as they know the bollocking they would get.

There should be equal space for this topic and the people affected by it.

Lou.m

jellyboy wrote: »

Hi op
Thanks for posting this ,i read this a few weeks ago on the guardian website and was trying to find it to repost it on the gentlemen's club forum..

The whole debate about the effects of male rape and sexual abuse in Ireland has to begin,we are silenced by ignorance…

I personally believe its the last great taboo..

Allthough AH is probably the worst place to post this ..

Watch how this is ripped apart, instead of being viewed as a helpful post to men have being abused..

Yeah go ahead and maybe we can ask the mods to move this thread there would it be better there?

I just didn't want to push it into the sideline.

It is an issue that all of society should be against women too.

I have often seen threads on sexual harassment etc about women here.

And you know women have experience in dealing with the laid back derision some have towards the issue. We have a a low level of tolerance for it. Sometimes it is that reaction and attitude that informs men they cannot talk about it.

This issue belongs in the mainstream.

Voglio

Lou.m wrote: »

I actually think people balking at this topic or laughing have issues.

I don't mean to be overly solemn but there.

k

MS.ing

weapon of war? come on, more a "an easy way for soldiers in the field to get their hole" nothing new here rape an pillage has always how it been during warfare.

even In berlin during the 2nd world war almost everyone/female was raped by the liberators after the city finally fell to the allies in 1945

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11

Stavros Murphy

What's a trigger warning? I was half expecting a lad with an old brush to wander in. Also wars shyte. It's shyte on loads and loads of levels OP. People even get killed. The only people who think war isn't are psychos or idiots. Rape is just another expression of the wholehearted shyteness of war. Chopping off someones hands isn't too nice either. Burning them into a pile of ash or shooting them in the stomach? Why fixate on Rape? It's one turd in a tank of turds that is war.

Muise...

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

What's a trigger warning? I was half expecting a lad with an old brush to wander in.

Apparently, it's bold and red and shouty. I think the TRIGGER WARNING in the thread title is warning about the eye-upsetting TRIGGER WARNING in the OP, which is there to warn people that rape is not nice.

Chazz Michael Michaels

The op really got shafted, here.

thegreatgonzo

Lou.m wrote: »

I think rape being used systematically needs to be brought out into the open and authorities need to hold their hands up to it.

It also happens to children.

.

This isn't exactly news. I think since the time of the crusades rape of soldiers by other soldiers was used as a form of humiliation and domination. Child soldiers in Africa are subjected to it and it is an issue that Amnesty International has highlighted. And then you have prison systems in many countries that turn a blind eye to it.
I agree that there should be more support for male victims though.

Baze

Alright Dave.

tritium

There's been quite a bit of discussion around the use of rape as a weapon of war in the last while. Unfortunately the shame associated with it makes it very difficult, especially for male victims who have been less commented by by the various humanitarian organisations. Stories like the abuse of prisoners in Iraq still surprise us unfortunately both in terms of the gender of the vittims and also the profile (and sometimes gender) of the perpetrators. It shouldnt be surprising given the level of sexual abuse reported within military training for example

There's also a tendency to ignore male victims of sexual violence in a number of the most prominent studies on the subject unfortunately

spurious

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I remember years and years ago when the Internet was a mere infant posting a comment about rape (can't even remember where) and I received a PM from a man in Cork who had been gang-raped on his way home from a club. He described the utter lack of public awareness about the effects of this heinous assault on men, and how he felt he had to remain quiet. He had such a wise nobility to him, this anonymous man, and wrote so movingly of the distress of having been so randomly and greviously violated, that ever since then whenever the word rape is mentioned I never considered it a gender-specific crime.

I taught at least one young lad who had been raped and as is the case with many women, not by a stranger. He absolutely refused any outside help and tried to cope with it on his own. I think it's much more common than people think.

El Guapo!

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Gee, what a bummer.

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

The op really got shafted, here.

"Jokes" about rape are not welcome here. Do not post in this thread again.

Hedge11

In the 1st War of the Worlds, some guy name Larry O'Rabia got hiself raped by a big-ass alien Turkey.

mad muffin

War is OK but rape is bad? We need to bring rape to the forefront but ignore it's cause?

Rape is a symptom. War is the cause. Eradicate war and there will be no war rape.

thegreatgonzo

mad muffin wrote: »

War is OK but rape is bad? We need to bring rape to the forefront but ignore it's cause?

Rape is a symptom. War is the cause. Eradicate war and there will be no war rape.

Well that would be great but what about other situations outside of war?

mad muffin

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

Well that would be great but what about other situations outside of war?

Yes rape is horrible disgusting behaviour but, OP talks about rape as a weapon of war.

thegreatgonzo

mad muffin wrote: »

Yes rape is horrible disgusting behaviour but, OP talks about rape as a weapon of war.

Fair enough she is

tritium

mad muffin wrote: »

Yes rape is horrible disgusting behaviour but, OP talks about rape as a weapon of war.

Granted but the issue of make rape extend well beyond war and is heavily underreported. The reasons for it - control power, humiliation of the victim are also fairly transferrable to a non war situation . getting rid of war, noble an aspiration as it is, wouldn't eliminate male rape or rape in general

Czarcasm

I'm genuinely lost as to what the OP was trying to achieve here with their opening post. One term I absolutely detest is this idea of "rape culture", and thank christ I'm on the touch site so I'm not seeing the size 4 "TRIGGER WARNING" nonsense.

I'm trying to figure out is the OP talking about

- male on male rape
- war
- the war in Syria
- rape committed against women and children
- homophobia
- systematic sexual violence in Ireland
- calling for action from the International community
- society's attitude towards rape (Is that western society, Irish society? Rape committed against women and children, rape committed against men, by men?)
- equality? (a campaign directed specifically at men to tell them it's not ok to rape other men? No, not even during war time!)

And then the throwaway comment at the end - "men need to realise male victims should feel no shame etc.". In other words "I really couldn't give a toss".


The opening post is so full of it's own strawmans and whataboutery that it's no surprise it fell in on itself and couldn't be taken seriously, by anyone!

MonstaMash

Male rape has been a control/intimidation/humiliation method used throughout worldwide penal systems for eons, that it should be perpetrated in times of war is unfortunately not surprising at all.

CrabRevolution

Its true that war rape (well, any rape) is a horrific happening. But really it's just another thing heaped onto the already massive pile of reasons why war is just ****.

Like someone said before, if you stopped the war you'd stop war rape....along with the death, disease, food shortages, destruction of property & land, wasting of resources, breakdown of order, increase in refugees, ruined families etc. associated with war.

Not to carve gender battlelines but I've often seen statements along the lines of "Such a battle/war (Battle of Berlin for example) was the worst because the amount of women who were raped, women suffer more in these wars" and while I agree that it is an atrocity and a dark shame on all involved that those rapes occured, I think men kinda have it worse since its men who do the vast vast majority of the actual dying in these wars.

e_e

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

mother of god don't bring that trigger warning bull**** to boards, please

Why? It's only 2 words. Seems like a reasonable and considerate thing to do in the case of content that may upset some.

Czarcasm

e_e wrote: »

Why? It's only 2 words. Seems like a reasonable and considerate thing to do in the case of content that may upset some.

The word "rape" in the thread title isn't enough of a clue that the thread content may upset people?

The phrase is merely alarmist and unnecessary, more to feed morbid curiosity than serve as a warning.

e_e

Czarcasm wrote: »

The word "rape" in the thread title isn't enough of a clue that the thread content may upset people?

The phrase is merely alarmist and unnecessary, more to feed morbid curiosity than serve as a warning.

I'll agree for this thread it's a little unnecessary given the title but it works in smaller cases like at a point within a post or video. I don't see the problem with it.

Femme_Fatale

MS.ing wrote: »

weapon of war? come on, more a "an easy way for soldiers in the field to get their hole"

It's that, but there is a theory that it is used just as assault/violation/humiliation.

Muise...

e_e wrote: »

I'll agree for this thread it's a little unnecessary given the title but it works in smaller cases like at a point within a post or video. I don't see the problem with it.

Meh, it's presumptuous and drama queeny though. I'd file it away with all patronising descriptions of things I am perfectly able to judge for myself - "what happened next will AMAZE you" etc. And what's it triggering anyway - tears, some unhappy memories? - reactions that can be neither accurately predicted nor guarded against.

YFlyer

I thought I clicked on the weather forum there.

e_e

Muise... wrote: »

Meh, it's presumptuous and drama queeny though. I'd file it away with all patronising descriptions of things I am perfectly able to judge for myself - "what happened next will AMAZE you" etc. And what's it triggering anyway - tears, some unhappy memories? - reactions that can be neither accurately predicted nor guarded against.

Speak for yourself, it may help people who have experienced abuse before further upset. Why be bothered by it? It's just 2 words that show some consideration for other people.

Muise...

e_e wrote: »

Speak for yourself, it may help people who have experienced abuse before further upset. Why be bothered by it? It's just 2 words that show some consideration for other people.

Well, as I said when I was speaking for myself there, I'm bothered by it because it is patronising and presumptuous and we can't wrap the whole internet in cotton wool just because something therein might "trigger" an upset in someone who has experienced abuse. All it does is make the reader's potential feelings more important than the subject of the article - which is selfish and counter-productive too.

Czarcasm

e_e wrote: »

I'll agree for this thread it's a little unnecessary given the title but it works in smaller cases like at a point within a post or video. I don't see the problem with it.

It's effectively a meaningless phrase, because anything can act as a trigger for PTSD. I hate it because all it is, is a phrase used by people who want to appear socially conscious and righteous and don't actually understand that PTSD can be triggered by something as simple as the smell of a certain brand of coffee.

A person who has suffered trauma (in the context of this thread I'm almost certain the OP was talking about rape) can read about the details of a rape and not be affected, but come to the next paragraph where the author might talk about a feeling of freedom they experienced, and reading THAT might act as the trigger.

You may as well slap "trigger warning" on everything, just to be on the safe side, you wouldn't want to be thought of as not being socially aware of the thought processes of 7 billion people.

Pug160

I'm willing to believe it could be true, although I have always thought it was exaggerated, particularly reports of it in in prisons. As far as war is concerned, lots of terrible things happen. Most of us couldn't begin to imagine, and probably wouldn't want to either.

Da Shins Kelly

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

It's that, but there is a theory that it is used just as assault/violation/humiliation.

It definitely is done as a way to violate and humiliate victims. During the Bosnian War, Bosniak women were systematically raped as a means to physical and moral destruction. It's done to destroy the "honour" of the women in regions/cultures/ethnicities under attack, in this case Muslim. Of course, the result is unwanted pregnancies, STIs, and many more psychological and physical problems. There is a definite purpose to it beyond sex.

daveyboynire

I'm trying to figure out where the pleasure would be even for the rapist, I mean at some mans tail who maybe hasn't seen water for a day/week or 2, that's bound to be torture in itself, Ewww

e_e

Muise... wrote: »

All it does is make the reader's potential feelings more important than the subject of the article - which is selfish and counter-productive too.

Taking the readers into account and seeing that it may not be suitable for some seems like the polar opposite to selfish to me. In fact when I see it it at least tells me that the writer is broaching a subject in a tactful and (hate to be a broken record here) considerate way. I'll agree that with Czarcasm that anything can trigger people but it's nice to be thoughtful of that (especially in as strong a subject as sexual violence) at the very least.

Galwayguy35

daveyboynire wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out where the pleasure would be even for the rapist, I mean at some mans tail who maybe hasn't seen water for a day/week or 2, that's bound to be torture in itself, Ewww

So if it was about women being raped would you say the same thing?

I doubt it.

daveyboynire

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So if it was about women being raped would you say the same thing?

I doubt it.

I would as I am a bit of a hygiene freak, the smell of fish or $hit doesn't exactly get my juices flowing

Pug160

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So if it was about women being raped would you say the same thing?

I doubt it.

It's hard to imagine though, in fairness. When a man rapes a woman it's generally for the power and thrill it gives him but I'd imagine there's usually some degree of sexual attraction there as well. When male on male rape is talked about, most heterosexual men find it difficult to imagine doing that under any circumstances. It's easy enough to imagine being extremely angry at someone and causing them physical or emotional harm if the circumstances are extreme enough, but rape is not something that enters most people's heads. I certainly understand the concept though.

RDM_83 again

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

It definitely is done as a way to violate and humiliate victims. During the Bosnian War, Bosniak women were systematically raped as a means to physical and moral destruction. It's done to destroy the "honour" of the women in regions/cultures/ethnicities under attack, in this case Muslim. Of course, the result is unwanted pregnancies, STIs, and many more psychological and physical problems. There is a definite purpose to it beyond sex.

tritium wrote: »

Granted but the issue of make rape extend well beyond war and is heavily underreported. The reasons for it - control power, humiliation of the victim are also fairly transferrable to a non war situation . getting rid of war, noble an aspiration as it is, wouldn't eliminate male rape or rape in general

The way I think about it (and I haven't thought about it lot but I am fairly certain I read this article ages ago from a link from the GentlemansClub).

Is that maybe its not helpful to lump all the incidents of war time rape into one big pile though obviously all are horrific.
In the case of male rape I can presume most of it is about power and humiliation particularly since I would guess that a lot of the perpetrators would identify as 'straight'.
In the case of male on female though when its not organized and condoned as in the Yugoslav wars can we really say its always about power and humiliation for the perpetrators these of course would be the effect on the victim but perhaps for the perpetrators its simply a means of sexual release with a person that has already been dehumanized in their eyes.

Galwayguy35

Pug160 wrote: »

It's hard to imagine though, in fairness. When a man rapes a woman it's generally for the power and thrill it gives him but I'd imagine there's usually some degree of sexual attraction there as well. When male on male rape is talked about, most heterosexual men find it difficult to imagine doing that under any circumstances. It's easy enough to imagine being extremely angry at someone and causing them physical or emotional harm if the circumstances are extreme enough, but rape is not something that enters most people's heads. I certainly understand the concept though.

Just guessing but I think it must be about humiliating the victim, for a straight man anal sex with another man would turn the stomach and being forced to do it against his will would be even worse.

Femme_Fatale

daveyboynire wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out where the pleasure would be even for the rapist, I mean at some mans tail who maybe hasn't seen water for a day/week or 2, that's bound to be torture in itself, Ewww

Possibly more to it than seeking sexual pleasure though.