Dublin Bus middle door Why?

skulltown

Its has been a number of times now.. but rush hour... heading home... standing at the middle door because the front door is too packed... Bus driver opens the middle on every stop except the stop I stop at why why why what is the point in it. Really annoying what the hell explain...!!!!

Five Lamps

There are three issues:

A) Passengers aren't used to the centre door concept after all these years. They need to be "retrained" and told to use them.

On all these new busses the rear doors are very badly signed. You need to put a big EXIT sign over them and another sign towards the front "exit through centre doors:

C) Drivers are the big problem. They need to be proactive. Off peak, they should just be refusing to open the front door for passengers. Twice I've been on off peak services and watched the drivers simply not bother even when passengers stood at the doors.

cdebru

skulltown wrote: »

Its has been a number of times now.. but rush hour... heading home... standing at the middle door because the front door is too packed... Bus driver opens the middle on every stop except the stop I stop at why why why what is the point in it. Really annoying what the hell explain...!!!!

Because maybe the stop you are using is unsafe/unsuitable to open the center doors, could be parked vehicles, no hard surface, a railing, unable to get into the stop properly etc etc.
Or maybe he is just ****ing with you.

Five Lamps

cdebru wrote: »

Because maybe the stop you are using is unsafe/unsuitable to open the center doors, could be parked vehicles, no hard surface, a railing, unable to get into the stop properly etc etc.
Or maybe he is just ****ing with you.

Ehhh... no. I think you can discount the "unsafe stops" line that seems to be thrown out. Utter rubbish. The later is more likely or just pure unprofessionalism by the drivers.

LXFlyer

Five Lamps wrote: »

Ehhh... no. I think you can discount the "unsafe stops" line that seems to be thrown out. Utter rubbish. The later is more likely or just pure unprofessionalism by the drivers.

To be fair that is not the case.

There are quite a few stops that are appallingly designed and where there is insufficient space for a bus to pull in, straighten adjacent to the kerb, stop, and then pull out.

Frankly as I've said before, there ought to be a proper safety audit carried out of every single stop, so that the safety issue can then be removed and any confusion ceases.

At the same time there are plenty of other stops where drivers could use both doors.

But I'd say frankly it boils down to getting a bit fed up deciding which door to open or not, and it's just easier to use the front ones given that's where most people go to in the first place.

cdebru

Five Lamps wrote: »

Ehhh... no. I think you can discount the "unsafe stops" line that seems to be thrown out. Utter rubbish. The later is more likely or just pure unprofessionalism by the drivers.

You think lol.

http://www.sydneybuses.info/publications/Bus%20Infrastructure%20Guidelines%20-Issue%202.pdf

Have a read of that, then have a look around Dublin and come back and tell me how many stops meet or come anywhere close to the common sense guidelines in that link.

AlekSmart

skulltown wrote: »

Its has been a number of times now.. but rush hour... heading home... standing at the middle door because the front door is too packed... Bus driver opens the middle on every stop except the stop I stop at why why why what is the point in it. Really annoying what the hell explain...!!!!

Were there any seats available upstairs perchance..?

The practice of individuals standing in the Centre-doorwell tends to block any access to passengers wishing to use it,who then return to the default and head for the front....incredibly,most of those who stand at the Centre Door watching it open and close repeatedly for a 30+ minute journey will then head for the :eek: Front :eek: door when their stop then comes along.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:.

Situational awareness is right

pclive

I think The location of the stairs makes it easier for passengers to alight using the front doors especially when the bus is full of standing pax.

It seems to be badly designed.

Uriel.

Five Lamps wrote: »

Ehhh... no. I think you can discount the "unsafe stops" line that seems to be thrown out. Utter rubbish. The later is more likely or just pure unprofessionalism by the drivers.

I am not sure about unsafe per se but the stop I normally get off when returning home - you get off at front door, and if driver has pulled in/approached the stop correctly you step out onto a square piece of concrete and then onto the footpath.

At same stop if you got off at the middle door you'd step straight onto a seriously flooded and mucky grass verge, in this weather at least. Sorry but i don't want to be stepping out into that, thanks. You could perhaps even ho so far as saying unsafe as you are stepping from an elevated position onto a slippery surface.

_Kaiser_

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair that is not the case.

There are quite a few stops that are appallingly designed and where there is insufficient space for a bus to pull in, straighten adjacent to the kerb, stop, and then pull out.

Frankly as I've said before, there ought to be a proper safety audit carried out of every single stop, so that the safety issue can then be removed and any confusion ceases.

At the same time there are plenty of other stops where drivers could use both doors.

But I'd say frankly it boils down to getting a bit fed up deciding which door to open or not, and it's just easier to use the front ones given that's where most people go to in the first place.

I too disagree with this argument that it's the stops that are the problem.

Watching Top Gear last weekend, the lads were biking around London and in one scene one of them nearly ran into a pedestrian who was getting off a bus via the centre door (coincidentally it was an ALX400-bodied Denis , the same body as our AV or AX class).

The bus itself hadn't fully pulled in either (hence why James May was able to cycle alongside it) but that didn't stop the driver from opening the centre doors anyway.

So is the issue really bus stops or:

1. Cyclists cutting inside buses when they're loading/unloading
2. Pedestrians/passengers not watching where they're going (I know it's unfashionable these days to suggest people have a bit of cop-on and responsibility for their own personal safety)
3. Pig-headedness/apathy/laziness on the part of the drivers

Or all 3 of the above?

Uriel.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I too disagree with this argument that it's the stops that are the problem.

Watching Top Gear last weekend, the lads were biking around London and in one scene one of them nearly ran into a pedestrian who was getting off a bus via the centre door (coincidentally it was an ALX400-bodied Denis , the same body as our AV or AX class).

The bus itself hadn't fully pulled in either (hence why James May was able to cycle alongside it) but that didn't stop the driver from opening the centre doors anyway.

So is the issue really bus stops or:

1. Cyclists cutting inside buses when they're loading/unloading
2. Pedestrians/passengers not watching where they're going (I know it's unfashionable these days to suggest people have a bit of cop-on and responsibility for their own personal safety)
3. Pig-headedness/apathy/laziness on the part of the drivers

Or all 3 of the above?

I think anyone that cycles or drives(Motorcycle) up the inside of a bus while it is stationary and has an indicator on is looking for trouble, even if the bus isn't completely pulled in. I am not talking about a driver deciding to open the doors in the middle of a lane, several meters shy of the bus stop to let impatient passengers out "early" or anything like that (actually I don't ever see that happening anymore).

I am not entirely sure you can blame passengers alighting either. if the bus pulls into the bus stop, you can reasonably presume that you can disembark without some idiot coming streaming up the inside. In fact, depending on the circumstances (type of bus, number of passengers on board, speed of the cyclist/motorcyclist coming up the inside), you would not be able to sufficiently see the road behind.

Additionally, if every passenger getting off the bus needs to stop at the door, stick their head out and check the road behind them, the stall time will significantly increase.

Now don't get me started on the passengers who get off, walk in front of the bus and attempt to cross the road.:mad::mad:

stop

Uriel. wrote: »

Now don't get me started on the passengers who get off, walk in front of the bus and attempt to cross the road.:mad::mad:

As a kid I saw a woman do this after getting off a 123 city imp on Galtymore Road, she was subsequently hit by a car overtaking the bus.

To this day I always go as slow as I can when passing a stopped bus.

Uriel.

stop wrote: »

As a kid I saw a woman do this after getting off a 123 city imp on Galtymore Road, she was subsequently hit by a car overtaking the bus.

To this day I always go as slow as I can when passing a stopped bus.

me too.

cdebru

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I too disagree with this argument that it's the stops that are the problem.

Watching Top Gear last weekend, the lads were biking around London and in one scene one of them nearly ran into a pedestrian who was getting off a bus via the centre door (coincidentally it was an ALX400-bodied Denis , the same body as our AV or AX class).

The bus itself hadn't fully pulled in either (hence why James May was able to cycle alongside it) but that didn't stop the driver from opening the centre doors anyway.

So is the issue really bus stops or:

1. Cyclists cutting inside buses when they're loading/unloading
2. Pedestrians/passengers not watching where they're going (I know it's unfashionable these days to suggest people have a bit of cop-on and responsibility for their own personal safety)
3. Pig-headedness/apathy/laziness on the part of the drivers

Or all 3 of the above?

Is there some pigheadedness yes undoubtedly, but the simple fact is our bus stops are not up to standard, not 100% of them but a large portion of them.
As long as that situation continues you will find it very difficult to deal with the pigheadedness.
If you have a read of the link I posted earlier you will see some basic common sense guidelines for bus infrastructure and then look at this city and compare it to that commonsense and see how far behind we are.

We actually have stops that are specifically designed solely for front door operation, but it doesn't stop there look at locations of stops, on bends, just before traffic lights with busy left turns, outside convenience shops, post offices, etc then railings with a gap wide enough just for front doors, laybys with insufficient room to pull in get straight and pull out, a complete disregard for parking regulations and a complete disinterest from the Gardai.
Bus stops that are too small for the volume of buses serving them, paid parking right up to either side of a bus stop, with a box that you would have to helicopter the bus into.

I don't believe you can blame pedestrians they should have a reasonable expectation that if the doors open they are safe to exit without having to check for cars, trucks, bicycles or motorbikes.

moc moc a moc

skulltown wrote: »

why why why what is the point in it. Really annoying what the hell explain...!!!!

Here's a mad idea: instead of asking a load of internet people, why not ask... the bus driver??

LXFlyer

TfL also have bus stop design guidance, and I think that again many stops here would not comply with these standards.


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/microsites/interchange/documents/accessibile_bus_stop_design_guidance.pdf

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

TfL also have bus stop design guidance, and I think that again many stops here would not comply with these standards.


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/microsites/interchange/documents/accessibile_bus_stop_design_guidance.pdf

37 metres for rigid buses and 49 for articulated buses you could probably count on the fingers of one hand bus stops in this city that meet those guidelines never mind foot path height, flag location, shelter location, bus cage width, location of traffic lights, line of sight, account of bus volumes etc etc.

LXFlyer

cdebru wrote: »

37 metres for rigid buses and 49 for articulated buses you could probably count on the fingers of one hand bus stops in this city that meet those guidelines never mind foot path height, flag location, shelter location, bus cage width, location of traffic lights, line of sight, account of bus volumes etc etc.

Which is entirely my point - there needs to be a full review of this.

dfx-

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Here's a mad idea: instead of asking a load of internet people, why not ask... the bus driver??

Or just take the extra 5 seconds to let people out the front door, concrete over the middle door and let everyone get around quicker:cool:

Five Lamps

The bus stop design is an utter red herring. These stops are few and far between (if they exist at all). How come cities around the world have been able to use multi door buses without these palatial bus stops.

On a number 1 bus today. Driver not only not using the middle doors but also had a mate standing up at the front for the bants. It seems that more and more of these double door buses are in service and drivers need to get the finger out and start doing their jobs.

monument

cdebru wrote: »

37 metres for rigid buses and 49 for articulated buses you could probably count on the fingers of one hand bus stops in this city that meet those guidelines never mind foot path height, flag location, shelter location, bus cage width, location of traffic lights, line of sight, account of bus volumes etc etc.

BRT would solve those issues and other ones -- for a good chunk of main routes in the city -- and would do so in a constructive, jointed up way.

Yet, we have so many against BRT. You can nearly understand the railfans being against it, but bus heads or people who who want an all round good transport system, it's a wonder.

Losty Dublin

Five Lamps wrote: »

The bus stop design is an utter red herring. These stops are few and far between (if they exist at all). How come cities around the world have been able to use multi door buses without these palatial bus stops.

On a number 1 bus today. Driver not only not using the middle doors but also had a mate standing up at the front for the bants. It seems that more and more of these double door buses are in service and drivers need to get the finger out and start doing their jobs.

If a bus stop isn't capable of allowing a bus to pull up and align it's doors to the kerb without a gap then there is an issue with the stop design. We are not talking any revolutionary design of a bus stop but a place where it can pull into, allow boarding and alighting, and pull out safely.

You'd think that it's not that much to ask from our city fathers, wouldn't you?

LXFlyer

Five Lamps wrote: »

The bus stop design is an utter red herring. These stops are few and far between (if they exist at all). How come cities around the world have been able to use multi door buses without these palatial bus stops.

On a number 1 bus today. Driver not only not using the middle doors but also had a mate standing up at the front for the bants. It seems that more and more of these double door buses are in service and drivers need to get the finger out and start doing their jobs.

So perhaps you might tell me how many of our bus stops meet TfL standards?


Should we not be looking for best practice when implementing a change such as this?


Or should we continue with the "ah sure, it'll be grand" approach?

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

BRT would solve those issues and other ones -- for a good chunk of main routes in the city -- and would do so in a constructive, jointed up way.

Yet, we have so many against BRT. You can nearly understand the railfans being against it, but bus heads or people who who want an all round good transport system, it's a wonder.

BRT will only solve it on 4.5 corridors.


I don't think it is too much to ask that proper standards be applied across the city for this sort of thing.


Frankly it is a joke.

Five Lamps

lxflyer wrote: »

So perhaps you might tell me how many of our bus stops meet TfL standards?

I would say the majority do.

Should we not be looking for best practice when implementing a change such as this?

By all means but it's not a show stopper for using double doors.

Or should we continue with the "ah sure, it'll be grand" approach?

In this case, yes. The rest of the world seems to be able to do it.

LXFlyer

Five Lamps wrote: »

I would say the majority do.



By all means but it's not a show stopper for using double doors.



In this case, yes. The rest of the world seems to be able to do it.

Have you bothered to read the TfL guidance document before making that judgement?

cdebru

monument wrote: »

BRT would solve those issues and other ones -- for a good chunk of main routes in the city -- and would do so in a constructive, jointed up way.

Yet, we have so many against BRT. You can nearly understand the railfans being against it, but bus heads or people who who want an all round good transport system, it's a wonder.

What is proposed you have already admitted is not BRT, however it would hopefully mean at least some stops that meet the basic standards set out in the links from Australia and London.
However the "BRT" documents do not at this stage set out,

A will current bus services continue to use the BRT lanes or the new BRT stops.

B will other non BRT stops be upgraded

C will any laybys provided be up to the standards set out in those links.


My main objection to the, what the NTA calls "BRT" is

1 The desire to use Bendibuses

2 Given 1 the lack of clear segregation from bicycles and taxis and other buses.

3 The amount of money being spent on resurfacing to facilitate the use of bendibuses when that money could be better spent implementing other transport improvements.

4 The lack of mention of policing, suggests to me the NTA don't even realise that one of the main problems with transport in this country is a complete lack of enforcement.

My opinion is they should not be called BRT as it is misleading they are not BRT they should be called SuperQBC or similar.

Five Lamps

lxflyer wrote: »

Have you bothered to read the TfL guidance document before making that judgement?

It's a guidance document and I'm sure we'd all build bus stops to that spec if we could - including London.

Fact of the matter is that it's drivers and not bus stop design that's the problem here. So we need less of the excuses and hiding behind UK guidance docs and more opening the middle doors please.

Or perhaps somebody can advise is there is some other agenda here?

cdebru

Five Lamps wrote: »

I would say the majority do.



By all means but it's not a show stopper for using double doors.



In this case, yes. The rest of the world seems to be able to do it.

Have you read either of the links ?

Have you actually looked at Dublin bus stops in light of having read either of the links ?

Take this one

It probably breaches every single guideline



https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.345867,-6.276265,3a,75y,57.74h,71.19t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1suzYuw0Vi6S8a3-QW_Cb5dA!2e0


Line of sight for drivers and intending passengers neither can see each other until the Bus has cleared the Shoe shop.
The bus cage actually curves
Disabled parking space right before the bus cage
the footpath is nowhere near high enough
The bus stop flag is at most less than a metre from the end of the bus cage which is right next to a loading bay so physically impossible to stop at the bus stop,
No room to get bus straight
The stop actually leaves the bus in a left hand turning lane only with no indication that buses do not have to turn left.
The stop is right before a busy set of traffic lights with a busy left turn that means traffic is driving across in front of the bus trying to exit the stop.
This stop actually serves 21 bus routes
Routes serving this stop:
145 Towards Kilmacanogue
25 Towards Merrion Sq.
25a Towards Merrion Sq.
25b Towards Merrion Sq.
25x Towards UCD Belfield
26 Towards Merrion Sq.
37 Towards Baggot St. / Wilton Terrace
39 Towards Burlington Rd.
39a Towards UCD Belfield
51d Towards Hawkins St./Waterloo Rd.
51x Towards Dunawley
66 Towards Merrion Sq.
66a Towards Merrion Sq.
66b Towards Merrion Sq.
66x Towards UCD Belfield
67 Towards Merrion Sq.
67x Towards UCD Belfield
69 Towards Hawkins St.
70 Towards Burlington Rd.
79 Towards Aston Quay
79a Towards Aston Quay


I haven't bothered to count all of these but it is well in excess of 60 buses an hour at peak so it should on top of the approach, getting straight and exit space for 3 to 4 buses to stop at a time.



I also like this one

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.346811,-6.262317,3a,75.1y,80.91h,68.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQfx1IEMMmwp_3ZI-f5FscA!2e0


Yes that is a hatched area with a continuous white line all the way through a bus stop. Dept of transport link on road markings.

Hatched markings may be bounded by a
Continuous Line (RRM 001) where entry to the hatched area is
prohibited

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/12971-TSM_CHAPTER_7-7.PDF


Or this one

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.354785,-6.371563,3a,75y,268.94h,62.72t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scQjGG7Ki1sC2S44K2aWohg!2e0

Yeah a railings with a gap just wide enough for front doors, open the centre doors here and you will be walking them into a railing.



Another one
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.382457,-6.202715,3a,75y,70.87h,65.85t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEIGQTZXEHgu8JjmgI2EGgw!2e0

This time apart from the illegally parked car we have the thin stretch of concrete, centre doors users would be stepping onto grass and probably knee deep in muck during the winter.

Another random one
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.376364,-6.221338,3a,75y,260.81h,57.37t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXK0M0vahdySmtAEmLhJgIg!2e0

No footpath height to speak of and a car parked right in front of the stop.

I could go on and on and on.

cdebru

Five Lamps wrote: »

It's a guidance document and I'm sure we'd all build bus stops to that spec if we could - including London.

Fact of the matter is that it's drivers and not bus stop design that's the problem here. So we need less of the excuses and hiding behind UK guidance docs and more opening the middle doors please.

Or perhaps somebody can advise is there is some other agenda here?

Yes there is, it is called if you want it to happen then you better provide the infrastructure in which it can happen other wise the labour court ruling of some nearly 30years ago remains in place and you are pissing against the wind buying buses with centre doors.

As long as you have a company that wants to hold its employees responsible in the event of any incident while at the same time asking those employees to use stops that are clearly dangerous in some cases then we are stuck in limbo, once the stops are corrected and buses can enter, load and unload, and exit safely then there will be no excuse for not using centre doors but we are not anywhere near there.

LXFlyer

Five Lamps wrote: »

It's a guidance document and I'm sure we'd all build bus stops to that spec if we could - including London.

Fact of the matter is that it's drivers and not bus stop design that's the problem here. So we need less of the excuses and hiding behind UK guidance docs and more opening the middle doors please.

Or perhaps somebody can advise is there is some other agenda here?

I have no other agenda other than as a customer, but having travelled around the network I have become aware of how shocking the bus stop design is in many cases.

The lack of any consistency means that it would be almost a "lucky dip" as to which doors can be opened.

I would prefer to see this done correctly, and that as the new buses are rolled out onto routes, that each route in turn has a proper safety audit, and whatever adjustments are required to stops are made, so that buses can operate in a safe manner, and more importantly the centre doors used on a consistent basis.

To suggest that pointing to what proper stop design for a bus service that is (in operational terms) identical to ours, should be is "hiding" frankly demeans your argument. Take a trip to London and you'll see that they take this sort of thing very seriously.

It is an integral part of running a bus service properly, but heretofore our local authorities don't seem to have been interested in playing their part.

monument

cdebru wrote: »

What is proposed you have already admitted is not BRT,

No I have not. I've said it's not the top level of BRT which requires 4 lanes or at lease two lanes and four plus platforms at stops.

Mrs OBumble

cdebru wrote: »

Because maybe the stop you are using is unsafe/unsuitable to open the center doors, could be parked vehicles, no hard surface, a railing, unable to get into the stop properly etc etc.
Or maybe he is just ****ing with you.

But they still open the front door at those places!

Alun

I was watching the Top Gear Burma (Myanmar) Special last night. There they changed from driving on the left to driving on the right but most of the cars, including new ones for some bizarre reason, and all the buses are still RHD, so passengers actually alight from the left hand side of the bus straight into the middle of the traffic. We should be grateful for small mercies.

AlekSmart

Alun wrote: »

I was watching the Top Gear Burma (Myanmar) Special last night. There they changed from driving on the left to driving on the right but most of the cars, including new ones for some bizarre reason, and all the buses are still RHD, so passengers actually alight from the left hand side of the bus straight into the middle of the traffic. We should be grateful for small mercies.

Robust folk these Burmese....;)

Losty Dublin

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But they still open the front door at those places!

If they didn't then you'd be stuck on board for God knows how long :pac:

cdebru

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But they still open the front door at those places!

Yes you will notice the location of the front door is beside the driver, so if the stop only has a railing with a gap that is fine or thin strip of hard surface, if it is a parked vehicle you can pull the front of the bus in, also because the driver is beside the door he can stop people exiting much easier than if the center behind him was in use. Also it means the driver only has to concentrate on one door so is better able to monitor it for any changing circumstances bikes, motorbikes coming up the inside of the vehicle, or the parked vehicle moving etc. In such circumstances single door use is much safer.

skulltown

Firstly the Bus stop was perfectly located it was on a main road so there was no cars parked VERY SAFE. I even waved down from the middle door he still didn't open it. I was not the only one staying there.

Secondly I didn't ask the driver because he had his window up. But I did here a women talking to him and he wasn't giving her any response.

I hope Dublin Bus get there act together if they want to provide a better service. Price raises does not help things.

thomasj

I've just got off a packed 39 that was using one of these new buses.

Despite the bus being packed not once not even when a considerable number of passengers were getting off (bachelor's walk half of the bus got off) did the driver use the middle doors.

Defeats the purpose of having them in the first place.

dfx-

I'd be wanting to know why a GT was operating such a busy route - of course it was packed.

Last week it seemed they were moved off the 9 in favour of AVs and there were a good few AXs and AVs on the 37. I caught AV375 on the 37 myself. It seems Phibsboro don't know what to do with them, putting a couple on the 66s which is no solution.

MGWR

thomasj wrote: »

I've just got off a packed 39 that was using one of these new buses.

Despite the bus being packed not once not even when a considerable number of passengers were getting off (bachelor's walk half of the bus got off) did the driver use the middle doors.

Defeats the purpose of having them in the first place.

Still not using the centre door in spite of the rest of the civilised world using them successfully for well over three-quarters of a century?

AlekSmart

MGWR wrote: »

Still not using the centre door in spite of the rest of the civilised world using them successfully for well over three-quarters of a century?

Just to offer a slightly differing definition of "civilized",I use the Centre Door almost constantly,accompanied by the syrupy voiced Lady advising (In BOTH Official Languages) of this fact. (WARNING: If you are travelling on an AV,AX,VT,EV type vehicle and this lady invites you to "Búin Usáid leis na Doirse Lathair"....IGNORE HER:eek: -She's only coddin ! )

However the 20% of my departing customers wishing to follow the lead of the "rest of the Civilized World" will find it difficult to exit through the OPEN doors due to fellow "civilized's" lolling against the partitions with open broadsheets,satchels and easels deployed (This whilst the Upper Saloon is usually at least 25% empty )

Equally at least half of the departees will actually sit or stand adjacent to the Centre Door for the duration of their journey,then as soon as that Door opens,will make a laboured trek back up to the front,usually to rub-noses with boarding passengers....I would really love to watch a time-lapse video of the process as I believe it holds many deeply buried secrets of our National Physche....;)

That being said...Operationally,the GT Stairwell is TOTALLY unsuitable for Dual Door use unless some added mechanism is found to encourage/reward/force at Taser Point,the departees to turn slightly LEFT at the bottom tread....;)

Perhaps in 3/4 of a century's time we will have been assimilated by the "Civilized's" led by the Emperor MGWR,with Centre Door Etiquette incorporated in the New Constitution

MGWR

The stairwell's a problem? Did they say that back when the first Atlanteans with VanHool-McArdle bodies came out?

Honestly, I think I could figure it out.

Five Lamps

lxflyer wrote: »

I have no other agenda other than as a customer, but having travelled around the network I have become aware of how shocking the bus stop design is in many cases.

In fairness, I have yet to see a bus stop that can't facilate double door operation.

Clearly there seems to be a situation where DB drivers are refusing to operate the rear doors for some unknown reason. Perhaps somebody can spill the beans on this one? Clearly it's nothing to do with these utopian stops that some people on here claim are necessary before those magical doors can be opened.

I mean let's face it if they are so concerned about stop design why is it that I see blatent disregard for other road safety aspects on a daily basis?

cdebru

Five Lamps wrote: »

In fairness, I have yet to see a bus stop that can't facilate double door operation.

Clearly there seems to be a situation where DB drivers are refusing to operate the rear doors for some unknown reason. Perhaps somebody can spill the beans on this one? Clearly it's nothing to do with these utopian stops that some people on here claim are necessary before those magical doors can be opened.

I mean let's face it if they are so concerned about stop design why is it that I see blatent disregard for other road safety aspects on a daily basis?

I linked to a couple of examples if you bothered your arse to look, there is no way anyone could seriously suggest that the Arran quay/church street stop is fit for dual door operation, imo it is unfit for any operation being dangerous on numerous fronts and is only a matter of time before a serious accident takes place there. I would also suggest you take a trip down Dame street, and Westmoreland street and then left up the quays or straight into O'Connell street of a weekend and view the wholesale take over of bus stops and their conversion into taxi ranks and then tell us it it safe to use centre doors.

The reason has been given to you and accepted by the labour court, the bus stops in this city are not up to standard the policing of parking in them is dismal, it is not any unknown reason it is a known and understood reason.

It seems clear to me that you have no concept of what safe means, it is the "ah sure it will be grand" attitude accompanied by the knowledge that if it turns out not to be grand it won't be your problem either way.

cdebru

skulltown wrote: »

Firstly the Bus stop was perfectly located it was on a main road so there was no cars parked VERY SAFE. I even waved down from the middle door he still didn't open it. I was not the only one staying there.

Secondly I didn't ask the driver because he had his window up. But I did here a women talking to him and he wasn't giving her any response.

I hope Dublin Bus get there act together if they want to provide a better service. Price raises does not help things.

First it is not your opinion as to whether it was safe or not that counts, you had a restricted view and could not possibly see what the driver could see, the driver is the one with the responsibility and it is completely up to them as whether they open those doors or not.

What your posts prove is the logic behind just not opening the doors at all, by your own admission the driver was opening the centre doors, he just didn't at your particular stop. So clearly he has no innate objection to centre door usage, for whatever reason and we can only surmise he felt centre door use was not suitable for your stop. This causes confusion, embarrassment, etc among those expecting to use the centre doors. If he had not used the centre doors at all then you would have just used the front doors as usual and thought nothing more of it.
It is the inconsistency that is the problem, it causes the problems Alek is complaining about and your issue.

Five Lamps

cdebru wrote: »

I linked to a couple of examples if you bothered your arse to look, there is no way anyone could seriously suggest that the Arran quay/church street stop is fit for dual door operation, imo it is unfit for any operation being dangerous on numerous fronts and is only a matter of time before a serious accident takes place there. I would also suggest you take a trip down Dame street, and Westmoreland street and then left up the quays or straight into O'Connell street of a weekend and view the wholesale take over of bus stops and their conversion into taxi ranks and then tell us it it safe to use centre doors.

I can't see why any of the stops listed can't be used for double door operation.

The reason has been given to you and accepted by the labour court, the bus stops in this city are not up to standard the policing of parking in them is dismal, it is not any unknown reason it is a known and understood reason.

It seems clear to me that you have no concept of what safe means, it is the "ah sure it will be grand" attitude accompanied by the knowledge that if it turns out not to be grand it won't be your problem either way.

Safety to seems to a la carte.

Amazing how double doors can be used elsewhere in the world. But there you go. I'm sure the real reason will come out soon. Probably in the next pay round negotiation.

cdebru

Five Lamps wrote: »

I can't see why any of the stops listed can't be used for double door operation.



Safety to seems to a la carte.

Amazing how double doors can be used elsewhere in the world. But there you go. I'm sure the real reason will come out soon. Probably in the next pay round negotiation.

You can't ?

So how can a bus enter get straight and leave room for exit at Arran Quay ?

How can a bus let people exit into a railing on the N4 ?

I presume you are just trolling at this stage, especially given the nonsense that you insinuate it is just a 30 odd year ploy to get more money.

Five Lamps

cdebru wrote: »

You can't ?

So how can a bus enter get straight and leave room for exit at Arran Quay ?

How can a bus let people exit into a railing on the N4 ?

I presume you are just trolling at this stage, especially given the nonsense that you insinuate it is just a 30 odd year ploy to get more money.

Not trolling.

The bottom line is that double and triple door buses have been operated world wide in cities and towns with the stop was nothing more than a pole in the ground. So what gives in Dublin?

Certainly there will be some stops that there will be an issue but that doesn't explain the almost blanket ban that drivers are implementing.

As I said, we'll see what the real deal with the operation of the rear doors is. A sudden interest in safety doesn't seem to explain it.

cdebru

Five Lamps wrote: »

Not trolling.

The bottom line is that double and triple door buses have been operated world wide in cities and towns with the stop was nothing more than a pole in the ground. So what gives in Dublin?

Certainly there will be some stops that there will be an issue but that doesn't explain the almost blanket ban that drivers are implement king.

As I said, we'll see what the real deal with the operation of the rear doors is. A sudden interest in safety doesn't seem to explain it.

All over the world? Most of the UK operate single doors outside of London.
Secondly this is Ireland, it is all health and safety and we have a tradition of blaming the bottom rung of the ladder while those who actually make the decisions get off Scot free.
Dublin bus has a history of holding drivers responsible for passenger accidents whilst boarding or alighting if they can blame the driver everything is good and they move on they never look at stop, design parking etc, you have to ask yourself why when these other cities that we want to compare ourselves to have bus stop design guidelines but we don't have them here?
Simple if there are no guidelines there are no guidelines to break no explanation needed as too why so the whole responsibility can be passed over to the driver.

The blanket ban main reason is consistency it causes less confusion that open not open open again. It has zero to do with any pay and I don't think you can seriously call something that has been ongoing for 30 odd years as a sudden interest.

It is typical in this country that somebody somewhere in the NTA thinks just buying buses with double doors will somehow magically fix the issue without having to do anything to address the issues that led to the abandonment of center doors over a decade ago.

punisher5112

I have had complaints put in against me on numerous occasions and one I will never forget is where I was asked did a passenger get off and did I see them walking into a pole.

Now I really don't know how they would even have a case here, I actually started laughing so hard I cried a little.

So they had complained that as they were getting off they walked into a pole and somehow they figgured this would be my fault?

Another is where you can't pull into bus stops where the passengers are all at the edge of the kerb or even so mad at getting on 1st that tehy step off the path in front of a moving minimum 12ton moving beast.

Iv'e had it where they bounce their heads off the mirror as they are dangling there feet off the kerb instead of staying back behind the red brick which is at most stops for this reason as to stay behind to let the bus pull into the kerb.

Some seem to forget that over the years of having the centre doors there were a lot of incidents and a few fatalities as people would try and leave while bus in motion and also a few occasions where the doors just opened going around a corner with the passenger leaning up against them falling out.

Some people do really seem to need someone to hold there hand through life and I do wonder sometimes how they actually dress themselves.