Hospitals wanting to know your religion?

Fred Swanson

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catallus

The hospital can ask you any question they deem fit. Your input or thoughts on this are not required. If you don't wish to answer any question that is your right.

dobman88

If you're in a hospital, in a coma or under anesthetic and need a blood transfusion, how would the doctor know whether your religion permits blood transfusions or not?

Tbh, asking what a persons religious beliefs are isn't really an intrusive question so why not just tell them. It could save your life, and their time!

And I agree with the above, it is your right to not answer the question but it may be in your best interest to answer it.

EDIT: I just read your thread in After Hours and even though AH doesn't usually take things too seriously, I think the first post sounded pretty genuine and non-sarcastic. And it tells you in a nutshell why you should state your religion and occupation.

everdead.ie wrote: »

Well I suppose it depends certain religions don't allow blood transfusions while certain occupations will have you exposed to different germs, toxins, pesticides etc.

wuffly

You only have to tell them so they don't treat you like a Catholic, last rites etc... or if you have a religion that forbids certain medical treatments like blood transfusion. They are asking so they don't get in trouble for doing the wrong thing, protecting them and you, its really only a worst case scenario requirement. If your an atheist why not tell them?

Cabaal

I went in for a procedure a few years back and they took my details but they never asked me my religion,

My wife happened to see the computer monitor during all this and mentioned to me after that they just automatically put me down as Catholic...without asking!

I went back and made them change it, they should never have assumed I was a catholic,
I have no problem with being asked my faith in a hospital, I just wish I was actually asked!

lazygal

I put down no religion when I was asked. I found it more bizarre to be asked my occupation - the secretary had no explanation for that one beyond mumbling something about statistics!

vibe666

certain occupations carry specific risks, it's purely for informative purposes to help narrow down a diagnosis and treatment possibilities in the case of any issues that may arise, they have all possible relevant info to hand.

stargazer 68

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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You are perfectly within your rights not to answer the question - however you will be given last rights etc in the case of an emergency.

vibe666

Dovies wrote: »

You are perfectly within your rights not to answer the question - however you will be given last rights etc in the case of an emergency.

if i was conscious i'd object, but if i was unconscious and i died, it's not going to matter a whole lot either way.

well, unless there really is a heaven, in which case i just got a free pass, woohoo! :pac:

lazygal

vibe666 wrote: »

if i was conscious i'd object, but if i was unconscious and i died, it's not going to matter a whole lot either way.

well, unless there really is a heaven, in which case i just got a free pass, woohoo! :pac:

It's a comfort to know you can spend your final moments wearing poly-cotton blend nightwear and horsing the shellfish into you, and it'll not matter a damn.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

I put down no religion when I was asked. I found it more bizarre to be asked my occupation - the secretary had no explanation for that one beyond mumbling something about statistics!

I suppose if you worked in chemicals or something you might have a higher risk of some things

lazygal

bluewolf wrote: »

I suppose if you worked in chemicals or something you might have a higher risk of some things

If the person taking the details had said that, no problem. But she didn't seem to know herself why the information was needed, she referred to statistics not hazards.

andrew

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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They need to know what to do with you if you die. That depends entirely on your religion/lack of religion. It's that simple.

Also, some hospitals give Catholics communion every day. Maybe if you're a Muslim, they'd ensure you got Halal meat. If you're Jewish, Kosher food and medical products.

lazygal wrote: »

I put down no religion when I was asked. I found it more bizarre to be asked my occupation - the secretary had no explanation for that one beyond mumbling something about statistics!

An example of an occupational hazard: Welders are at risk of getting metal in their eye. If you have metal in your eye and get an MRI scan, the magnets will pull on the metal. So if you're a welder, they might ask if you've ever got metal in your eye, and/or take an X-Ray of your eyes before giving you an MRI scan.

Brian Shanahan

catallus wrote: »

The hospital can ask you any question they deem fit.

What gives you that, wrong, impression? They can only ask you questions relevant to your reason for being in the hospital (e.g. what were you doing that caused the fall that broke your leg? or are you allergic to any anesthetics?) as a patient and general health questions (e.g. are you eating your five a day? or how many units of alcahol do you drink in a week?). Asking about your religion has nothing to do with your health or will it improve the level of service the hospital provides.

Breezer

Both occupation and religion are relevant for both medical and statistical purposes.

If I know in advance that a woman is Muslim, as a male doctor I can presume that she's less likely to allow me to perform a gynaecological examination, for example (obviously I'd approach this sensitively regardless, but in my experience it's particularly sensitive for Muslims).

I'm not going to explain an illness the same way to my patient, who is a nurse, as I would to my patient who is a teacher. I'd use different language.

Unemployed people (for example) by and large, suffer from more health issues and have more problems accessing healthcare. This needs to be taken into account when assessing them and formulating a management plan.

These are just examples. I could go on. Job and religion (moreso job, to be honest, but religion also) frequently come into healthcare decisions and planning.

The statistics are needed because they are used in allocating hospital budgets, depending on the types of people being treated (i.e. a public hospital treating a large population of unemployed or low skilled workers in a deprived area needs more money than one in a settled, middle class area where everyone has insurance and half the people go to the local private hospital anyway). Statistics are vital in medicine: they are used for clinical audit and improving healthcare.

And yes, there's the last rites thing too.

Peregrinus

As others have said, it has no implications for your personal medical treatment, but it's valuable information in the bigger picture in terms of understanding the population the hospital serves.

As for your own situation, while it won't affect your medical treatment, if you give a religious indentification, and if it becomes relevant, the hospital may be more likely to ask you (or your family) if you (or they) want spiritual assistance from a chaplain, etc. (They may ask you this anyway, even if you haven't answered the question.) And if you die with no identifiable next-of-kin - this does happen occasionally - so that the HSE is organising a funeral for you, they will take account of any religious identification you have given.

Hotblack Desiato

If you say you've no religion, they'll send a priest around later to hassle you. At least, that's what happened to me :rolleyes:

Cabaal

ninja900 wrote: »

If you say you've no religion, they'll send a priest around later to hassle you. At least, that's what happened to me :rolleyes:

Was the priest just assuming or was he trying to convert you? :pac:

surely the hospital could break DPA if they told a priest your faith, is it not personal information?

Czarcasm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I posted a thread in AH a few weeks ago about this and got the official party line on such matters from the god fearing masses of AH which were along the lines of suck it up and tell them as they don't ask for sh1ts and giggles.

The what? :pac:

Is there any issue if you fail to disclose your religion? I am an atheist but do they even need to know this? I feel my beliefs or lack of beliefs are nothing to do with the state or its' organs.

What say yee?

It's this sort of paranoia and self-righteous attitude that gives atheists a bad name. You got your answer in After Hours but because it didn't suit you ("the official party line", again, what?), you think the Atheism and Agnosticism forum might make for a better echo chamber.

Cabaal

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's this sort of paranoia and self-righteous attitude that gives atheists a bad name. You got your answer in After Hours but because it didn't suit you ("the official party line", again, what?), you think the Atheism and Agnosticism forum might make for a better echo chamber.

tbh I don't think its that,

The amount of noise in after hours often makes it hard to know if the information you are being given is accurate, OP likely trusts the info they'd get from this forum over after hours.

hfallada

Hospitals also want to know if you are a member of the travelling community. These hospital surveys are vital as they allow the government to get a representation of people that may have not been counted in the census. Also the census is every 5years meaning the data can be quite obsolete within in a fee years. These surveys are up to date

Fred Swanson

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Fred Swanson

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Guy:Incognito

lazygal wrote: »

If the person taking the details had said that, no problem. But she didn't seem to know herself why the information was needed, she referred to statistics not hazards.

Not everyone asking questions needs to know what the information is for. Some people are there to input data. These people don't care or have an interest in your details. Someone further down the chain and trying to save your life based on the info the first person took might though.....

Thoie

I spend far too much time in hospitals, and just say "none" if they ask my religion. In a catholic hospital (I'm specifically thinking of the Bons Secours in Cork, about 15 years ago), they'll ask from time to time if you'd like communion, and if you say no they'll just pull your curtain across before the priest appears, so that he doesn't intrude.

Sometimes priests/nuns will stop by and ask if there's anything they can do for you, or if you'd like a blessing. Based on that I don't think they hand out the info to passing clergy. A "no, thank you" suffices, they've never tried to convert me.

I Heart Internet

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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There's a lot of rubbish posted in AH, a lot of funny stuff and some serious stuff. After a while, it's quite easy to "get your eye in" and seperate the wheat from the chaff.

From my recollection, your AH thread got a similar (if funnier) response to this one - essentially - there are valid reasons they want that info, withhold it if you like, but it's no big deal.

Hotblack Desiato

Cabaal wrote: »

Was the priest just assuming or was he trying to convert you? :pac:

The usual, assumed I was catholic, asked if I wanted a blessing then proceeded to give me one* anyway after I said no.

At least he wasn't around the next day when I was told to try to go up and down the corridor on crutches for the first time. I was only wearing a pair of 'onion bag' hospital issue jocks and a gown split down the back :pac: couple of hours later I was issued a pair of PJs!


*no sniggering please

Thoie

ninja900 wrote: »

I was only wearing a pair of 'onion bag' hospital issue jocks and a gown split down the back :pac: couple of hours later I was issued a pair of PJs!

Rule 1 - if they give you one of those gowns, immediately ask for a second one, then put the first one on "properly", and the second on like a dressing gown over it

Deadlie

I used to be a student nurse in Dublin. They ask your religion not because its some covert operation to give the Catholics all the good fish fingers at lunch, but for really boring reasons.

If a Jew dies, you couldn't touch the body or there'd be massive panic in the family. As a nurse, you wouldn't want that. Handy also to know who's on Kosher or Halal diets. Some strict Muslims see pain relief/anaesthesia as food so to speak, so there procedures will be moved around accordingly during Ramadan. I remember in the Alzheimer's ward there was an auld Jewish lad, you couldn't wheel him down to mass on a Sunday! There's LOADS of reasons why they ask about your religion. Its not a big deal.

Czarcasm

Thoie wrote: »

Rule 1 - if they give you one of those gowns, immediately ask for a second one, then put the first one on "properly", and the second on like a dressing gown over it

You sir, are a frickin' genius!


If only I'd known this when I was in the Cappagh having my hip done, I was coming out of the bathroom after my shower when the towel I was wearing got caught in the door, and I was holding myself up on my zimmer frame, when just then, the gay tennis coach came wheeling round the corner, his eyes lit up like spotlights as I whimpered "Help, nuuurse!"

Thoie

Czarcasm wrote: »

You sir, are a frickin' genius!


If only I'd known this when I was in the Cappagh having my hip done, I was coming out of the bathroom after my shower when the towel I was wearing got caught in the door, and I was holding myself up on my zimmer frame, when just then, the gay tennis coach came wheeling round the corner, his eyes lit up like spotlights as I whimpered "Help, nuuurse!"

We ladies have all the best ideas.
There are many other secret hospital tricks, like getting your friends to buy small bottles of water, empty a small bit out, then freeze them on their sides and bring them into you (glorious cold water, as opposed to room temperature yuck).
If you're not fasting, and there's no other reason not to be sticking to hospital food, talk to the night duty nurses and they'll clue you in on how to get Chinese delivered to the day room.
If you're brought into hospital unexpectedly, ask the first person you call to make sure you get a toothbrush AND toothpaste (everything feels less hopeless after you've brushed your teeth).
If you're bedbound, ask if you can have a kidney dish for brushing your teeth.
If you're feeling nauseated, many hospitals have special bags with a solid ring opening - no splatter, and you can seal them off easily.

Peregrinus

Cabaal wrote: »

Surely the hospital could break DPA if they told a priest your faith, is it not personal information?

Yup. SFAIK they give the chaplaincy department a list of admissions every day, but they don't tell them who answered the religion question or what answer they give - Data Protection standards forbid it.

Some hospitals will ask you on admission if you'd like a visit from the chaplain (they ask that separately from the "what religion are you?" question) and if you answer that question, that answer is passed on. But most hospitals don't do that.

As a result, if a chaplain approaches you (and you've had no previous interaction with the chaplaincy department) he almost certainly does not know whether you answered the religion question, or what answer you gave.

Hotblack Desiato

Thoie wrote: »

getting your friends to buy small bottles of water, empty a small bit out, then freeze them on their sides and bring them into you (glorious cold water, as opposed to room temperature yuck).

That is just brilliant. Especially as hospitals are so stupidly hot.

If you're not fasting, and there's no other reason not to be sticking to hospital food, talk to the night duty nurses and they'll clue you in on how to get Chinese delivered to the day room.

Dunno about that, but I did get a snack box delivered to me in an A&E cubicle once.

I was in an RTA on my way home, had eaten nothing since lunch and was having surgery in the morning so fasting from midnight.
'But it's only five to eleven now'
Other half: 'And?'
'I'm starving! The chipper near the back gate is still open if you hurry...'

She's a keeper

cathalomurchu

wtf? Some religions dont allow blood transfusions. What the actual ****.... Sorry um we have to let you die because a book said so. Oh my...

Fred Swanson

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Peregrinus

cathalomurchu wrote: »

wtf? Some religions dont allow blood transfusions. What the actual ****.... Sorry um we have to let you die because a book said so. Oh my...

No, no, no. All hospitals in Ireland will offer you a blood transfusion if you need it. None of them will "let you die" because they object to blood transfusion.

But if an (adult, mentally competent) patient objects to blood transfusion, a hospital will not force it on them, even if they are likely to die in consequence. No competent adult can be subjected to medical treatment that they don't want. The adult's reasons for not wanting th treatment are irrelevant. They may or may not be religious in nature; it makes no difference.

Jehovah's Witnesses, famously, object to blood transfusions. However, a hospital will not withhold a blood transfusion merely because a patient has identified himself as a JW; the patient will have to specifically withhold consent to a blood transfusion. If a patient known to be a JW is brought in unconscious and in need of a blood transfusion, he is given a blood transfusion. The only circumstance where this would not happen is if the patient has previously given a direction to his medical advisers that he is not to be given a blood transfusion.

Brian Shanahan

Deadlie wrote: »

I used to be a student nurse in Dublin. They ask your religion not because its some covert operation to give the Catholics all the good fish fingers at lunch, but for really boring reasons.

If a Jew dies, you couldn't touch the body or there'd be massive panic in the family. As a nurse, you wouldn't want that. Handy also to know who's on Kosher or Halal diets. Some strict Muslims see pain relief/anaesthesia as food so to speak, so there procedures will be moved around accordingly during Ramadan. I remember in the Alzheimer's ward there was an auld Jewish lad, you couldn't wheel him down to mass on a Sunday! There's LOADS of reasons why they ask about your religion. Its not a big deal.

Frankly if that's the reason, I see no point in asking. Because if a person feels enough about religious "laws" enought to have a fit when they are inadvertently broken, then they should be able to say "I'm of religion x" independently of others asking them (or their families if they aren't able).

A medic's job is to save the life of their patient, not to save the life of their patient conditional on the irrational prejudices of that patient (frankly any religious belief which dictates that best medical practise or corpse handling practise doesn't happen is about as rational as making heat resistant suits out of chocolate).

Czarcasm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Frankly if that's the reason, I see no point in asking. Because if a person feels enough about religious "laws" enought to have a fit when they are inadvertently broken, then they should be able to say "I'm of religion x" independently of others asking them (or their families if they aren't able).

A medic's job is to save the life of their patient, not to save the life of their patient conditional on the irrational prejudices of that patient (frankly any religious belief which dictates that best medical practise or corpse handling practise doesn't happen is about as rational as making heat resistant suits out of chocolate).

Yes, let's forget about silly things like treating a person with dignity and respect...

Ehh, no.

andrew

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

they should be able to say "I'm of religion x" independently of others asking them (or their families if they aren't able).

Well, being asked is a very efficient way for people to tell others that they're of religion X.

I guess they could make sure that they meet with every single person who could possibly treat them, and let them know what their religion is, but that would waste a lot of time. Or perhaps they could just 'mention' it in general, but it's hard to know who the right person to tell would be. Far easier to have people fill in a form or to ask them.

Peregrinus

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Frankly if that's the reason, I see no point in asking. Because if a person feels enough about religious "laws" enought to have a fit when they are inadvertently broken, then they should be able to say "I'm of religion x" independently of others asking them (or their families if they aren't able).

That's right, because nobody being admitted to hospital is ever in a state of shock, or distracted by worry, or catatonic with anxiety or terror. They all think pragmatically and calmly, and spontaneously address everything that might need to be addressed. And so do their families. :rolleyes:

Brian Shanahan

Czarcasm wrote: »

Yes, let's forget about silly things like treating a person with dignity and respect...

Ehh, no.

a) if someone's religion is forcing them to reject treatment, treating them with dignity and respect does not include going along with the irrationality being forced upon them by their religion.
b) if someone is dead, then they have no need for the kind of treatment their religion insists upon as a substitute for dignity and respect.
c) I allowed in my post for people to look for things to be done in a certain way according to their religious wishes upon their own request (within reason, I think doctors & nurses should disregard Jehovah's if they request no blood transfusions, and prosecuted accordingly if they don't). If that is not according sufficient dignity and respect to the patient, then what you're looking for is to turn the country into a theocracy.

Brian Shanahan

andrew wrote: »

Well, being asked is a very efficient way for people to tell others that they're of religion X.

Its also a very efficient way of diverting resources away from necessary medical procedures.

I Heart Internet

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Its also a very efficient way of diverting resources away from necessary medical procedures.

Sure it is. Asking people about themselves and how they might want to be treated is pretty much the reason the health service is on its knees.:cool:

catallus

Why would an atheist even want to go to a hospital? I mean, if they're serious about there being no meaning to their lives?

Pherekydes

catallus wrote: »

Why would an atheist even want to go to a hospital? I mean, if they're serious about there being no meaning to their lives?

Not the other way around, no? Why wouldn't religious people just pray for a cure?

Plus, your second sentence is so idiotic it's beneath contempt.

PopePalpatine

I see catallus is back, spewing David Quinn-class bile.

Czarcasm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

a) if someone's religion is forcing them to reject treatment, treating them with dignity and respect does not include going along with the irrationality being forced upon them by their religion.

Brian I get that you have no respect for religion, and that's fine, but medical professionals don't have that luxury and must comply with a person's religious beliefs, apparently within reason as the State has the power to over-ride their religious beliefs under certain circumstances, but it doesn't happen that often.

b) if someone is dead, then they have no need for the kind of treatment their religion insists upon as a substitute for dignity and respect.

Again, while you see no reason to respect a dead persons religious beliefs, medical professionals don't have that luxury, it'd be akin to harvesting a dead person's organs because it's not likely they'll need them again! Medical professionals can't do that because even in death, a person has a right to bodily integrity and disposal of their corpse in accordance with their religious beliefs.

c) I allowed in my post for people to look for things to be done in a certain way according to their religious wishes upon their own request (within reason, I think doctors & nurses should disregard Jehovah's if they request no blood transfusions, and prosecuted accordingly if they don't). If that is not according sufficient dignity and respect to the patient, then what you're looking for is to turn the country into a theocracy.

I'm not at all looking for the country to turn into a theocracy, I'm merely stating the fact that the medical profession doesn't have the luxury of applying your individual ideology.

andrew

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Its also a very efficient way of diverting resources away from necessary medical procedures.

No it isn't. That's entirely baseless, it literally makes no sense whatsoever. Knowing someone is Catholic, and allowing them to receive the last rights (for example) doesn't divert resources from anything.

a) if someone's religion is forcing them to reject treatment, treating them with dignity and respect does not include going along with the irrationality being forced upon them by their religion.

In general, treating someone with dignity and respect involves treating them how they wish to be treated, regardless of their motivations. Your classification of religious belief as 'irrational' isn't relevant; just because you value 'rationality' (whatever you take that to mean) doesn't mean others do, or should.

b) if someone is dead, then they have no need for the kind of treatment their religion insists upon as a substitute for dignity and respect.

It matters a lot to them when they're alive, to know that they'll be treated appropriately when they're dead. That's why it matters.

c) I allowed in my post for people to look for things to be done in a certain way according to their religious wishes upon their own request (within reason, I think doctors & nurses should disregard Jehovah's if they request no blood transfusions, and prosecuted accordingly if they don't). If that is not according sufficient dignity and respect to the patient, then what you're looking for is to turn the country into a theocracy.

There's absolutely no plausible mechanism by which respecting someone's religious beliefs as regards to their healthcare, would lead toward theocracy.

robindch

catallus wrote: »

Why would an atheist even want to go to a hospital? I mean, if they're serious about there being no meaning to their lives?

Hot-diggity. I was poe'd.

Deadlie

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Frankly if that's the reason, I see no point in asking. Because if a person feels enough about religious "laws" enought to have a fit when they are inadvertently broken, then they should be able to say "I'm of religion x" independently of others asking them (or their families if they aren't able).

A medic's job is to save the life of their patient, not to save the life of their patient conditional on the irrational prejudices of that patient (frankly any religious belief which dictates that best medical practise or corpse handling practise doesn't happen is about as rational as making heat resistant suits out of chocolate).

I'd rather be asked than not asked. They need a standard baseline, and I'd rather it be asking me what I want than assuming I'm a Catholic and using that as the standard.

And what part of not giving a Muslim a rasher or not bringing a Jewish Alzheimers Patient to Mass affects this Medic doing his job? Not everyone arrives into a hospital through A&E. Some visits are just routine procedures and them asking about your Religion so that you can be treated like a human being in a multicultural society is okay with me.

J C

Deadlie wrote: »

I'd rather be asked than not asked. They need a standard baseline, and I'd rather it be asking me what I want than assuming I'm a Catholic and using that as the standard.

And what part of not giving a Muslim a rasher or not bringing a Jewish Alzheimers Patient to Mass affects this Medic doing his job? Not everyone arrives into a hospital through A&E. Some visits are just routine procedures and them asking about your Religion so that you can be treated like a human being in a multicultural society is okay with me.

I agree Deadlie.

It's all about facilitating respect for the patient's faith (or none) ... it cuts both ways and allows Atheists to have their faith position respected as well.

I don't see why this should even be debated in any society worthy of the name multi-cultural and/or pluralist.