Self publishing

femur61

Hi,

I have completed my novel and wondering has anyone experience with self publishers here, or abroad? I do have the name of one but don't want to use them, anyone any experience good or bad, preferably good.

EileenG

The point about self-publishing is that you do it yourself.

It's easy to upload a book to Amazon. KDP had very easy directions on what to do. Smashwords is easy too, and so is iTunes.

Make sure you've had a professional edit and a cover. I can recommend a good editor who is not too expensive.

What is your platform? Do you have an online presence which will help you promote your book? Are you on Facebook, Twitter, Wattpad, Pintrest etc?

buiscuit2168

I was in talks with Z$zoo in Dublin felt I was being bullied and now have found Create Space, in fact Roddy Doyle talks about this site for self publishing. Catherine Howard has talked about the pros of self publishing. Google Catherine Howard.

femur61

EileenG wrote: »

The point about self-publishing is that you do it yourself.

It's easy to upload a book to Amazon. KDP had very easy directions on what to do. Smashwords is easy too, and so is iTunes.

Make sure you've had a professional edit and a cover. I can recommend a good editor who is not too expensive.

What is your platform? Do you have an online presence which will help you promote your book? Are you on Facebook, Twitter, Wattpad, Pintrest etc?

Hi Eileen

In another thread you replied to me to say you would look at my MS from a structural edit point, thank you, but I am still editing my MS so it is not ready just yet.

You said in a thread "How to get published" in 2012 you wouldn't recommend self publishing. Do you still hold that opinion?

EileenG

femur61 wrote: »

Hi Eileen

In another thread you replied to me to say you would look at my MS from a structural edit point, thank you, but I am still editing my MS so it is not ready just yet.

You said in a thread "How to get published" in 2012 you wouldn't recommend self publishing. Do you still hold that opinion?

You don't need to have finished for a structural edit. Send me a complete synopsis and I can do it.

Self-publishing can be good if you have a platform, and a number of fans, or some way of promoting the book. For a first timer, going out to self-publish tends to result in, at most, a couple of hundred sales to friends and family.

Piliger

femur61 wrote: »

Hi,

I have completed my novel and wondering has anyone experience with self publishers here, or abroad? I do have the name of one but don't want to use them, anyone any experience good or bad, preferably good.

I am half way through my first book and have no intention to go anywhere near publishers. I can't offer personal experience but I would offer a few links that you really should pay a LOT of attention to articles on:
http://www.thepassivevoice.com/
www.mobileread.com

There are also a number of great blogs by peope who share their experiences.
This
This
This

There is a massive amount of propaganda against self publishing in the mainstream media and across the web, pushed by the legacy publishers.

Judgement Day

I have always self-published and with varying degrees of success. I went down this road years ago as I couldn't be bothered to do the rounds of possible publishers. If you think that you have something that could be a commercial hit you should go down the traditional route, but if it's a so-called 'vanity' project then self-publishing could the best option. The last book I self-published was with the UK based Grosvenor House Publishing http://www.grosvenorhousepublishing.co.uk/ and I can highly recommend them.

Up until now I've only written non-fiction stuff but I now have three fiction works underway and I have no idea - if any of them get finished - what route I will go. I suffer from writer's block, lack of time (and energy), lack of money and also struggle with some aspects of basic English, having given up the subject at school at 16 years of age.

Piliger

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have always self-published and with varying degrees of success. I went down this road years ago as I couldn't be bothered to do the rounds of possible publishers. If you think that you have something that could be a commercial hit you should go down the traditional route, but if it's a so-called 'vanity' project then self-publishing could the best option. The last book I self-published was with the UK based Grosvenor House Publishing http://www.grosvenorhousepublishing.co.uk/ and I can highly recommend them.

Up until now I've only written non-fiction stuff but I now have three fiction works underway and I have no idea - if any of them get finished - what route I will go. I suffer from writer's block, lack of time (and energy), lack of money and also struggle with some aspects of basic English, having given up the subject at school at 16 years of age.

I'm sorry but this is such an out of date and wrong comment.

Sales of eBooks through self publishing is exploding on Amazon, Smashwords and several other sites, and hundreds of traditionally published writers are now self publishing. Traditional publishers are seriously struggling to sign new writers now because so many are choosing to self publish. And why wouldn't they ? Traditional publishers tie you up into appalling contracts, take control of your book and do nothing to promote it. Self publishing will enable you to maintain complete control, earn more than double the commission per copy and should you chose you can always consider a paper option later.

Trad publishing has destroyed thousands of great writers and books when they offer them a few grand, and then do nothing to promote them but prevent them from going anywhere else. Be warned.

The comment on a 'vanity' project is an appalling and nonsensical piece of hubris. The publishing world has changed vastly in the last five or six years and this concept died a long time ago.

The OP should do his research and open his mind to the world how it is and not how it used to be.

Piliger

EileenG wrote: »

You don't need to have finished for a structural edit. Send me a complete synopsis and I can do it.

I would advise the OP to be extremely cautious about doing so. Editing is an extremely important thing, but a new writer has to develop his own style and that style may involve his own structure or a non traditional structure. It is important that the OP writes his book and goes through several revisions himself so that he is confident that this is how he wished to tell his or her story. THEN use the services of an editor who goes with this.

Traditional publishing has forced writers into straight jackets of how a book MUST be structured and how a story MUST be told for far too long. Writers should break free of this straight jacket and be themselves.

Self-publishing can be good if you have a platform, and a number of fans, or some way of promoting the book. For a first timer, going out to self-publish tends to result in, at most, a couple of hundred sales to friends and family.

This is simply not the case, and the exact opposite is the case, and I suggest you cannot support it with any sound evidence. Again like so many others who have been involved in the traditional publishing business, you are giving grossly inaccurate and out of date information.

Judgement Day

No need to take offence to my post, I'm only speaking from my personal experience having self-published my first guidebook in 1980. I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the traditional publishing business but it's news to me that they are struggling to find new authors. Any links to support this?

Piliger

Judgement Day wrote: »

No need to take offence to my post, I'm only speaking from my personal experience having self-published my first guidebook in 1980. I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the traditional publishing business but it's news to me that they are struggling to find new authors. Any links to support this?

I wasn't offended and intend none in return. But there is a huge inertia among the writing community here in Ireland when it comes to what is happening in modern non trad publishing. This completely ancient concept of vanity/self publishing being an embarrassing runt of the publishing world.
The whole industry is in the middle of a massive change and writers all over the world are realising that the underpaid straight jacket of trad publishers is just not needed any more. Self publishing has exploded out of all recognition.

If you want confirmation of what I am saying then please visit the links I provided already, including authorearnings.com, and hang out where self publishers spend their time. Look for the turnover and sales stats coming out of Amazon and the eBook market sector.
I am new to this part of Boards and it is disappointing to find so many still aspiring to no higher an achievement than finding an agent or publishers. Agents are another group that are in fast fast decline as well btw.

hcass

Piliger wrote: »

I wasn't offended and intend none in return. But there is a huge inertia among the writing community here in Ireland when it comes to what is happening in modern non trad publishing. This completely ancient concept of vanity/self publishing being an embarrassing runt of the publishing world.
The whole industry is in the middle of a massive change and writers all over the world are realising that the underpaid straight jacket of trad publishers is just not needed any more. Self publishing has exploded out of all recognition.

If you want confirmation of what I am saying then please visit the links I provided already, including authorearnings.com, and hang out where self publishers spend their time. Look for the turnover and sales stats coming out of Amazon and the eBook market sector.
I am new to this part of Boards and it is disappointing to find so many still aspiring to no higher an achievement than finding an agent or publishers. Agents are another group that are in fast fast decline as well btw.

While the links you posted might show an increase in self-publishing they don't show that groups like agents and publishing houses are in decline. Can you please show some real evidence to support your claims.

Piliger

hcass wrote: »

While the links you posted might show an increase in self-publishing they don't show that groups like agents and publishing houses are in decline. Can you please show some real evidence to support your claims.

It would appear that your knowledge of today's publishing industry is such that needing to be lead by the hand is a step too far for me, I'm afraid. Anyone who does some research and learns about the current changes happening in the sector will be left in no doubt about these issues.

echo beach

Piliger wrote: »

But there is a huge inertia among the writing community here in Ireland when it comes to what is happening in modern non trad publishing. This completely ancient concept of vanity/self publishing being an embarrassing runt of the publishing world.
The whole industry is in the middle of a massive change and writers all over the world are realising that the underpaid straight jacket of trad publishers is just not needed any more. Self publishing has exploded out of all recognition.

There can be no doubt that there has been a revolution in the publishing industry and while writers may be happy to escape the 'straight jacket' of traditional publishing readers now need a life-jacket!
There are excellent self-published books out there but there is an ocean of dross that is poorly written, full of basic errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation and begging for a decent editor to find the good ideas that have been lost in self-indulgent refusal to hit the delete button.
Of course traditional publishers produce a fair amount of rubbish too but the odds of finding a book that you can enjoy are improved. I've been tempted too often by free or 99p downloads that disappoint and now try to be more selective in how I spend my time as well as my money.

Judgement Day

+1 Contrary to popular belief, everybody does not have a book in them.

Piliger

echo beach wrote: »

There can be no doubt that there has been a revolution in the publishing industry and while writers may be happy to escape the 'straight jacket' of traditional publishing readers now need a life-jacket!

I think that is seriously debatable .. I'll continue below.

There are excellent self-published books out there but there is an ocean of dross that is poorly written, full of basic errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation and begging for a decent editor to find the good ideas that have been lost in self-indulgent refusal to hit the delete button.
Of course traditional publishers produce a fair amount of rubbish too but the odds of finding a book that you can enjoy are improved. I've been tempted too often by free or 99p downloads that disappoint and now try to be more selective in how I spend my time as well as my money.

I'm sorry but this is a meme that is repeated across the publishing industry and media, and it is a complete myth.

Firstly as you say trad publishers produce a fair share of utter rubbish. I agree. However I suggest you are completely wrong about the comparisons you make and the value of those comparisons.

Next, in the world of trad publishers eBook output, I can testify by personal experience that the quantity of appalling typos is enormous even in eBook that they are charging 12 quid for. They are unwilling to check these eBooks and just push them through software recognition apps and lump them out to paying customers.

Secondly, yes there is an amount of poorly edited and poorly written work out there in self publishing land. Spelling and grammar errors are NOT common in my experience. However there are a couple of points that need to be made against your inferences. The first is that I see absolutely no more evidence of rubbish in self publishing than in trad publishing. The big difference is that in trad publishing the books are beautifully produced with professional covers and given the gloss of respectability simply by their coming from trad publishers and appearing on the shelves of book stores.

As someone who spent years in bookstores and libraries I can say that there are masses and masses of utter bilge being similarly packaged and sold at ridiculous prices, to innocent readers who are then told that it is quality writing simply because the trad publishers say it is.

Lastly, even if there were a larger proportion of rubbish in the self publishing sectors, as you yourself say the prices are 99p or lets say 2 quid ! A reader can take a punt with a few low priced self published eBooks for the prices of one rubbish paper book.

Self published books are a gold mine for the reader. The prices are a fraction of the grossly over prices trad titles. A few are rubbish but you get to preview before you buy and they are easily spotted. Writers are not limited by the appalling straight jackets on style and structure that trad publishers have ruled the world of writing with for a century, and though duds will be encountered, the cost is minimal and I as a reader get a big buzz knowing that most of the money I pay will go to the actual writer rather than a corporate entity profiteering on writers.

echo beach

Piliger wrote: »

Self published books are a gold mine for the reader. The prices are a fraction of the grossly over prices trad titles. A few are rubbish but you get to preview before you buy and they are easily spotted. Writers are not limited by the appalling straight jackets on style and structure that trad publishers have ruled the world of writing with for a century, and though duds will be encountered, the cost is minimal and I as a reader get a big buzz knowing that most of the money I pay will go to the actual writer rather than a corporate entity profiteering on writers.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I also prefer my money to go to writers rather than middlemen but I can't agree than self published books are a gold mine for readers. I would say it is more like panning for gold. It is there alright but it takes an immense amount of time and effort to find it.
Like most readers I don't have that time. Recently I read a well-written self published book which had a very good story line but the plot was all over the place. Characters were introduced then disappeared, they moved back in forth in time but fashions and music didn't move with them, that sort of thing. The only acknowledgments were to family and friends. One objective outside reader could have pointed out the flaws that totally ruined what should have been an excellent read.
I don't begrudge the author my £1.99. They earned it. I do feel disappointed for her as well as for myself.

Piliger

echo beach wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you say. I also prefer my money to go to writers rather than middlemen but I can't agree than self published books are a gold mine for readers. I would say it is more like panning for gold. It is there alright but it takes an immense amount of time and effort to find it.
Like most readers I don't have that time. Recently I read a well-written self published book which had a very good story line but the plot was all over the place. Characters were introduced then disappeared, they moved back in forth in time but fashions and music didn't move with them, that sort of thing. The only acknowledgments were to family and friends. One objective outside reader could have pointed out the flaws that totally ruined what should have been an excellent read.
I don't begrudge the author my £1.99. They earned it. I do feel disappointed for her as well as for myself.

My response to this is this.

Firstly, maybe a gold mine is an overstatement. However ...

Secondly you over state, imho, the task of finding good books among self publishers. Let's go back and compare it with the task of finding good books in paper form. There is the travel time and effort to go to bookshops, time browsing through the small range of books in these shops, even the bigger ones. I did it for years and it is a major amount of time and effort.

If on the other hand one buys from Amazon in order to save all of that time, what is the comparison between buying paper books, eBooks from trad publishers and eBooks from self published authors ?

I see no difference. The recommendation system works equally well. The preview system works equally well. I don't see how any possible description of an 'immense amount of time' can be involved.

You talk about editing problems and spelling. Well a few years ago I was persuaded to to buy a couple of books by the huge seller Tom Clancy. I was half way through when I abandoned it. A third of what I was reading involved sentences that were not even proper English and a third was an excerpt from spec sheets on guns, explosive, tanks and fighter jets ! Ok I agree that trad publishers generally produce good English, but that is a very low bar to measure them by.

Next, how many eBooks that are that badly edited, as you claim above, are you going to end up with if you follow recommendations and what other people bought ? I suggest very few.

And please don't paint every self published eBook with the one brush:

FACT: MANY self published eBook are published by authors that have left the trad publishing world and now publish their own works.
FACT: MANY eBooks are not 1.99. They range from 1.99 up to 4 and 5 quid.

worded

I've heard that there is a risk of full content theft via ebooks.

Someone simply copy's the content and sells it as if they are the originator. That's a risk that would be legally protected against if you were with a publisher via their legal dept.

Piliger

worded wrote: »

I've heard that there is a risk of full content theft via ebooks.

Someone simply copy's the content and sells it as if they are the originator. That's a risk that would be legally protected against if you were with a publisher via their legal dept.

There are risks everywhere. Piracy is monumentally over stated by the publishers to scare the bejeezus out of people.

The vast majority of readers come to legit sites for their eBooks. And if people were to pirate and a reader were to download, don't you think they would be ever so slightly more likely to do it with a best seller ? After all most pirate copies are of paper books that never went to eBook. Generally speaking pirated copies boost legit sales and the EU issued a big report in 2012 reporting this to be true in the music business.

echo beach

Piliger wrote: »

Secondly you over state, imho, the task of finding good books among self publishers. Let's go back and compare it with the task of finding good books in paper form. There is the travel time and effort to go to bookshops, time browsing through the small range of books in these shops, even the bigger ones. I did it for years and it is a major amount of time and effort.

I suppose that I enjoy browsing in bookshops and consider that time as leisure while trawling through websites is a tad too close to the day job for me. Just a personal opinion.

Next, how many eBooks that are that badly edited, as you claim above, are you going to end up with if you follow recommendations and what other people bought ? I suggest very few.

The book I mentioned has loads of 5 and 4 star reviews and a few unfavourable ones. Maybe other people either didn't have the same issues with it as I did or they were prepared to overlook them in view of the positives which I acknowledge. I don't know.

And please don't paint every self published eBook with the one brush:

I haven't done that and am still willing to take a punt, reading stuff I might not have done otherwise. What I said was that I have become more selective.
I was brought up in a rural area, far from bookshops and libraries and still haven't adjusted to novelty of limitless, very affordable reading. Like a child let loose in a sweet shop I tended to stuff myself but now want to seek out quality.

Piliger

echo beach wrote: »

I suppose that I enjoy browsing in bookshops and consider that time as leisure while trawling through websites is a tad too close to the day job for me. Just a personal opinion.

No offense but that is a very different point than you made earlier and it shows how misleading to readers of this thread that original point was. Of course if browsing a bookshop is leisure for you then fine. But it would be a drudgery for me and many others, so we need to compare like with like.

The book I mentioned has loads of 5 and 4 star reviews and a few unfavourable ones. Maybe other people either didn't have the same issues with it as I did or they were prepared to overlook them in view of the positives which I acknowledge. I don't know.

Showing how individual some of these judgements are. As with my experience with Clancy.

I haven't done that and am still willing to take a punt, reading stuff I might not have done otherwise. What I said was that I have become more selective.

A very good thing. I agree completely. My point would simply be that it is a level of selectivity not enormously different from how we approach books in a big bookshop like Easons ..

I was brought up in a rural area, far from bookshops and libraries and still haven't adjusted to novelty of limitless, very affordable reading. Like a child let loose in a sweet shop I tended to stuff myself but now want to seek out quality.

I would agree completely. I am not making any assumptions about you yourself but one thing that needs to be kept in mind by many is that a LOT of people have been sucked into the tesco book selling experience, where they do their shopping and are then attracted by bright glossy low cost paper books which they then read and 'enjoy' but not in a great way. The experience causes a really lazy and passive approach to book reading and often restricts them from seeking out titles that they would enjoy in a much more comprehensive way. Just my 2¢.

echo beach

Piliger wrote: »

I would agree completely. I am not making any assumptions about you yourself but one thing that needs to be kept in mind by many is that a LOT of people have been sucked into the tesco book selling experience, where they do their shopping and are then attracted by bright glossy low cost paper books which they then read and 'enjoy' but not in a great way. The experience causes a really lazy and passive approach to book reading and often restricts them from seeking out titles that they would enjoy in a much more comprehensive way. Just my 2¢.

As a general rule when I see a book on sale in the major supermarkets it goes to the top of my 'avoid' list. I know there is a mass market for chick-lit, thrillers and celebrity biography but they are low on my preferences. Like convenience food, I suspect 'convenience' reading is here to stay and it has its place but as you say it turns readers into consumers of a product rather than participants in a literary adventure.

hcass

Piliger wrote: »

No offense but that is a very different point than you made earlier and it shows how misleading to readers of this thread that original point was. Of course if browsing a bookshop is leisure for you then fine. But it would be a drudgery for me and many others, so we need to compare like with like.

Showing how individual some of these judgements are. As with my experience with Clancy.

A very good thing. I agree completely. My point would simply be that it is a level of selectivity not enormously different from how we approach books in a big bookshop like Easons ..

I would agree completely. I am not making any assumptions about you yourself but one thing that needs to be kept in mind by many is that a LOT of people have been sucked into the tesco book selling experience, where they do their shopping and are then attracted by bright glossy low cost paper books which they then read and 'enjoy' but not in a great way. The experience causes a really lazy and passive approach to book reading and often restricts them from seeking out titles that they would enjoy in a much more comprehensive way. Just my 2¢.

I'm sorry but you are very wrong about browsing a bookshop - nearly every reader I know loves bookshops! They love browsing a good bookshop - take Hodges Figgis or Chapters Second hand bookstore on Parnell Street. I could spend hours in there! As could many of my friends, family and others I know who frequent bookstores and see it as a treat. I think you are the first person I have ever heard describe looking for a good book in a book shop as "drudgery" and I hope the last!

Piliger

hcass wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are very wrong about browsing a bookshop - nearly every reader I know loves bookshops! They love browsing a good bookshop - take Hodges Figgis or Chapters Second hand bookstore on Parnell Street. I could spend hours in there! As could many of my friends, family and others I know who frequent bookstores and see it as a treat. I think you are the first person I have ever heard describe looking for a good book in a book shop as "drudgery" and I hope the last!

Keep dreaming. Millions of us have moved on.

hereford

I have a short story for kids its a 3 part only down on paper not sure is it worth pursuing

Piliger

Something to read for every writer who hasn't committed themselves and their future writings to the jaws of Big Publishing.

Author Earnings Web Site Report: "July 2014 Author Earnings Report"

Read here.

Discussion here.

Agent Weebley

Piliger wrote: »

Something to read for every writer who hasn't committed themselves and their future writings to the jaws of Big Publishing.

Author Earnings Web Site Report: "July 2014 Author Earnings Report"

Read here.

Discussion here.

Hi Piliger,

That was a great exposée of the current state of electronic publishing, but after reading the comments, it seems that print sales were not included. Statistics can be misleading, but within the context of electronic sales alone, self-publishing is "rocking my world," so to speak.

One category of note was Amish Romance. Amish Romance, is an interesting category, as I have never seen one of those types of books. I thought they were technologically impaired, and the only "romance" I have seen is a soft pron video filmed somewhere in Lancaster, PA, called Amish Paradise.

Piliger

Agent Weebley wrote: »

it seems that print sales were not included.

It's an eBook/electronic publishing web site.

Agent Weebley

Don't get me wrong, Piliger, I only read electronic arts these days, and you can't trust the "bestseller list" or the big 5 sales numbers, so really, when it comes down to it, the only way to find out the correlation between electronic sales and physical sales is to do a survey of 2000 people, but I could be sort of right +/- 3%, 19 times out of 20 on that one.

Piliger

Agent Weebley wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, Piliger, I only read electronic arts these days, and you can't trust the "bestseller list" or the big 5 sales numbers, so really, when it comes down to it, the only way to find out the correlation between electronic sales and physical sales is to do a survey of 2000 people, but I could be sort of right +/- 3%, 19 times out of 20 on that one.

I take your first point. But your second winged it's way past me. There are many sources for the size of the eBook market out there. Few of them are accurate because of a few factors. Firstly Amazon don't publish their eBook sales. Secondly most stats don't include many of the other eBook online retailers.
Regularly the mainstream media comments on the eBook market and they consistently do so in a completely misleading and inaccurate way because they are part of the same big publisher world. So they swallow the press releases of the big publishers and ignore the millions of self published and indie published titles being sold each year. Meanwhile self publishers authors are earning 70% royalties paid monthly in real time, while trad published authors are earning 15% paid quarterly, very late, reduced by returns and by the many other deductions that the publishers make.

DorInTheWall

Piliger wrote: »

I wasn't offended and intend none in return. But there is a huge inertia among the writing community here in Ireland when it comes to what is happening in modern non trad publishing. This completely ancient concept of vanity/self publishing being an embarrassing runt of the publishing world.
The whole industry is in the middle of a massive change and writers all over the world are realising that the underpaid straight jacket of trad publishers is just not needed any more. Self publishing has exploded out of all recognition.

If you want confirmation of what I am saying then please visit the links I provided already, including authorearnings.com, and hang out where self publishers spend their time. Look for the turnover and sales stats coming out of Amazon and the eBook market sector.
I am new to this part of Boards and it is disappointing to find so many still aspiring to no higher an achievement than finding an agent or publishers. Agents are another group that are in fast fast decline as well btw.

The author earnings stats are hugely problematic - Courtney Milan did an excellent rundown of why.

Self-publishing is a hugely exciting area for writers and it's shown there's a healthy market for many of the 'dead' genres (like chick lit), but to try and paint trade publishing as some kind of dying monster we're all better off without is daft. A simple comparison of the Kindle bestsellers with, say, Waterstones, shows that the ebook market and the pysical book market are very different. Don't discount the supermarkets either - there's a reason Tesco's book buyer is one of the most powerful people in publishing.

KDP is a great tool but it's not the be all and end all. It's not suitable for everybody or every book any more than a big 5 contract is.

As for your assertion further up that trade publishers are having problems finding decent books because authors are all heading to Amazon ... I boggle. There are many excellent books which don't get picked up for a wide variety of reasons. Happily, many of them go on to KDP success.

feargale

Very interesting thread.

Piliger

DorInTheWall wrote: »

Self-publishing is a hugely exciting area for writers and it's shown there's a healthy market for many of the 'dead' genres (like chick lit), but to try and paint trade publishing as some kind of dying monster we're all better off without is daft.

And yet it is completely true. Dying they are. Not in the next year or two. But the signs are there for anyone to see if they bother looking.

A simple comparison of the Kindle bestsellers with, say, Waterstones, shows that the ebook market and the physical book market are very different.

Of course they are. Who said they weren't ? Straw man argument here.

Don't discount the supermarkets either - there's a reason Tesco's book buyer is one of the most powerful people in publishing.

In trad publishing.

KDP is a great tool but it's not the be all and end all. It's not suitable for everybody or every book any more than a big 5 contract is.

No one said it is the be all and end all. More meaningless straw man arguments. And what on earth does saying "not suitable for everybody or every book" actually mean ? It seems like a boring old cliche to me, to be rolled out when there is nothing better to say.

As for your assertion further up that trade publishers are having problems finding decent books because authors are all heading to Amazon ... I boggle.

Of course you do. You clearly struggle with the whole transformation that is going in in publishing. And yet it is happening and Trad publishing is losing established authors and new authors at a rate that is worrying them enormously. All you have to do is follow their behaviour in the last couple of years. Their panic, their hysterical strategy toward Amazon, their merging and consolidation.

There are many excellent books which don't get picked up for a wide variety of reasons. Happily, many of them go on to KDP success.

Again you fail miserably to realise that writers, many of whom have previously been published, are choosing not to go the paper or the trad publishing route. Your silly suggestion that these are people 'who don't get picked up' by trad publishers is so out of date it really is comical.

Insect Overlord

Piliger wrote: »

Again you fail miserably to realise that writers, many of whom have previously been published, are choosing not to go the paper or the trad publishing route. Your silly suggestion that these are people 'who don't get picked up' by trad publishers is so out of date it really is comical.

How can you keep criticising people for "straw men" when you keep resorting to ad hominem and general condescension? Awful stuff.

Piliger

An File wrote: »

How can you keep criticising people for "straw men" when you keep resorting to ad hominem and general condescension? Awful stuff.

There is nothing condescending or ad hominem in my posts. I am simply responding to claims that are clearly false. if you disagree then make your pint.

Agent Weebley

Piliger wrote: »

I take your first point. But your second winged it's way past me. There are many sources for the size of the eBook market out there. Few of them are accurate because of a few factors. Firstly Amazon don't publish their eBook sales. Secondly most stats don't include many of the other eBook online retailers.
Regularly the mainstream media comments on the eBook market and they consistently do so in a completely misleading and inaccurate way because they are part of the same big publisher world. So they swallow the press releases of the big publishers and ignore the millions of self published and indie published titles being sold each year. Meanwhile self publishers authors are earning 70% royalties paid monthly in real time, while trad published authors are earning 15% paid quarterly, very late, reduced by returns and by the many other deductions that the publishers make.

God, you're funny! I decided to re-read the entire thread to be safe that I am on point.

I only made 1 point, with 1 long sentence. What was the 2nd point?

My point was that you can't prove that e-books are a better route than p-books by quoting market share and profit share of e-books alone. You have to do your own survey, because you can't trust the traditional publishers for anything other than lies, damned lies, and warped statistics.

But don't do your survey on boards.ie, as you may be banned for it.

Agent Weebley

Oh and here's the New York Times Bestseller List wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_Best_Seller_list

Their statistics gathering techniques are a "trade secret."

hcass

Agent Weebley wrote: »

God, you're funny! I decided to re-read the entire thread to be safe that I am on point.

I only made 1 point, with 1 long sentence. What was the 2nd point?

My point was that you can't prove that e-books are a better route than p-books by quoting market share and profit share of e-books alone. You have to do your own survey, because you can't trust the traditional publishers for anything other than lies, damned lies, and warped statistics.

But don't do your survey on boards.ie, as you may be banned for it.

I love you, Weebley.

Agent Weebley

Aw geez, that's made my day, hcass.

I now have the next installment of Mound Of Hostages in my head, but since it's drizzling where I am right now, it's time to put on my wellies and do some weeding and plant relocation - it's easier to pull them when they're wet. I kept the wellies that fit me . . .

Oh, Nerfy and I love our hard copy books, although 99% of my reading is now online.

As a primer for my story tonight, you should read a Celtic Blockbuster article from Wendy McElroy on The Daily Bell here. She's really cool, too - we had a little chat.

I can't wait for those magic stories as well!

beauf

Agent Weebley wrote: »

...Oh, Nerfy and I love our hard copy books, although 99% of my reading is now online. ...

Sorry for being pedantic. But out of curiosity by online to you mean eBooks or are you mean everything electronic, websites and eBook.

I'm still reading hard copy books and mags a good bit. Even though we all the usual alternatives are available. I still love the experience of browsing books and magazines in a shop.

Agent Weebley

beauf wrote: »

Sorry for being pedantic. But out of curiosity by online to you mean eBooks or are you mean everything electronic, websites and eBook.

I'm still reading hard copy books and mags a good bit. Even though we all the usual alternatives are available. I still love the experience of browsing books and magazines in a shop.

That's OK you're not being pedantic at all. There's nothing like the feel of a good book in your hands, I would say.

I read tons of stuff all the time. Right now, I'm taking a break from weeding, by reading The Pooka and GalwayGuy2 stories (and replying to you.) I usually read non-fiction on alternate news and periodical type web sites, as well as a little bit of fiction, like mainstream media. I have a new bookmark as of yesterday for Wendy McElroy.

The last hard copy book I bought at a bookstore was Don Quixote - the Edith Grossman translation, as I had heard it was the best translation ever, and I had recently seen the play (which was a precis, since the play would have been days long otherwise.) I think that was about 4 years ago.

I tend to read Gutenberg classics on my laptop for free, I have no e-reader device, and neither does Nerfy. A short while back I read the George Orwell bio here. All his books and essays are free to read.

I don't have much time to browse book stores much these days, but I always enjoyed it when I did drop in. Maybe I'll make some time this week . . .

I haven't bought a book online yet, and don't expect to do so. I would order one in at a bookstore if they didn't have it in stock.

Oh, and writing . . . I write a lot.

buiscuit2168

Well self Publishers take the mick as well. A good friend of mine was conned to printing loads of books they can't sell by a self publisher and also to put it in their own words "bullied" into publishing their way.

So you have to be careful it is not only trad publishers that are self serving.

Agent Weebley

beauf wrote: »

Sorry for being pedantic. But out of curiosity by online to you mean eBooks or are you mean everything electronic, websites and eBook.

I'm still reading hard copy books and mags a good bit. Even though we all the usual alternatives are available. I still love the experience of browsing books and magazines in a shop.

Update: When I went to The Apple Store today, I bought a loaded iPadAir for some reason. It has a SIM card in it, so it will replace my Sony Vaio Z that is getting a bit long in the tooth.

I think maybe I was not myself at the time . . .

beauf

In haven't had the opportunity to impluse buy something like that in a longtime. But nonetheless I wish you the joy of a new gadethingimabob. Get a decent case to protect it.

I was only partially aware of the interest in self publishing. Interesting thread.

Agent Weebley

beauf wrote: »

In haven't had the opportunity to impluse buy something like that in a longtime. But nonetheless I wish you the joy of a new gadethingimabob. Get a decent case to protect it.

I was only partially aware of the interest in self publishing. Interesting thread.

It was a company purchase, so it has 1/10th the impact of a personal buy. So really, I got it for $100! I got a magnetic aluminum keyboard slash cover for it too, as well as accidental coverage . . . and I do tend to have the odd accident on my devices . . . usually coffee spills.

The "impulse buy" and "not being myself" has a bit of a back story . . . here.

Tonight, I will turn on the iPad Air . . . while sipping a Cappuccino.

Oh, and this forum is really a self-publishing "site" in my books.

buiscuit2168

I know all of people are of the opinion self publishing is the future for writers but can't be a huge gamble. As we all are aware there is some trype that is published and have excellent reviews, but is that the difference with publishing traditionally and self publishing? Self publishers would ultimately find it difficult to get a decent review and would find it hard to get into bookshops. Even tough trad publishers take a huge percentage of your sales but aren't you guaranteed to get more sales. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to promote their books.

femur61

lovetheanimals wrote: »

I know all of people are of the opinion self publishing is the future for writers but can't be a huge gamble. As we all are aware there is some trype that is published and have excellent reviews, but is that the difference with publishing traditionally and self publishing? Self publishers would ultimately find it difficult to get a decent review and would find it hard to get into bookshops. Even tough trad publishers take a huge percentage of your sales but aren't you guaranteed to get more sales. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to promote their books.

That makes a lot of sense, I never thought of that. Working full time I wouldn't have time to promote my book. I can see why people go with trad publishers.