Hurling Rankings

Realt Dearg Sec

Bonniedog wrote: »

I'd be worried about the Dublin style under GC to be honest. It can look good as it did in Walsh Cup and against Galway, but I'd be fearful that like the Tipp game that if they persist with short passing they are only setting themselves up for some almighty hidings later on in the year.

Just from a tactical perspective, it makes no sense in a game like hurling to have to potentially contest your own ball inside your own 40, which is what short puck outs actually mean given the way teams set up now. Days are gone when backs will have space to be receiving balls and make good deliveries into the forwards.

I suspect GC is trying to model Dublin on Cork in the late 90s, but the simple fact is, and it pains me to say it, is that we just don't have the Donal Óg, or Seán Ógs or Gardiners to be at that game. Nor will the Cats half forward helpfully retreat the better to admire your fancy puckout strategy!

Yeah your last point is the big one. It's not just that Dublin probably don't have the players, in goal or out field, to execute that kind of plan, the approach itself is outdated since the 2006 AI final. Any hardy team with a bit of fitness about them can crush that game plan very quickly and if you don't have a plan B it can get ugly fast. I would see that approach as a horses for courses thing, you use it, if you have the players, to exploit weaknesses in a given game, rather than seeing it as your blueprint for approaching a season and building a team identity. I think Clare 2013 epitomised this, able to change their approach as needed, but not beholden to a strategy.

dastardly00

Just an observation.... But it can happen in games where backs are given loads of space and time when they receive a short puckout. I'm specifically referring to the Cork-Clare Round 2 Qualifier match in Thurles last year. Corner-backs and wing-backs had acres of space and could solo the sliotar up towards the halfway line before an opposing player would try and tackle them.

But yes there is no chance of that happening if KK/Tipp are the opposition.

Kerrydude1981

Looking forward to Sunday's game in Tralee,we have started well in 1B,beating Laois and being competitive against Limerick,

Now though the Wexford game is one where I wouldn't have targeted taking anything from but with the way things are gone I think we should give them a good game of it and with a bit of luck and hard work wont be too far off taking a win,

The one thing our lads have to learn is that they can't afford these teams to benefit from any early mistakes,it just makes the job ten times harder.

CrabRevolution

Assuming Laois lose all their matches, the Offaly/Kerry game in the last round could be very interesting. Winner guaranteed another year in 1B. Kerry got badly brought down to earth today but you'd imagine a game between themselves and Offaly would be close enough.

HanaleiJ5N

Position|previous|change|Team|Points
1st |(1)|=|KILKENNY|8991
2nd |(3)|+1|WATERFORD|8842
3rd |(2)|-1|TIPPERARY|8718
4th |(4)|=|GALWAY|8560
5th |(5)|=|DUBLIN|8410
6th |(6)|=|CORK|8173
7th |(8)|+1|LIMERICK|8173
8th |(7)|-1|CLARE|8140
9th |(9)|=|WEXFORD|7681
10th |(10)|=|OFFALY|7335
11th |(12)|+1|LAOIS|6956
12th |(11)|-1|KERRY|6909
13th |(13)|=|WESTMEATH|6747
14th |(14)|=|ANTRIM|6532
15th |(15)|=|CARLOW|6311
16th |(17)|+1|KILDARE|6013
17th |(18)|+1|LONDON|5935
18th |(16)|-2|DOWN|5860
19th |(19)|=|DERRY|5757
20th |(20)|=|MEATH|5588
21st |(21)|=|WICKLOW|5278
22nd |(22)|=|ARMAGH|5195
23rd |(24)|+1|MAYO|5061
24th |(23)|-1|ROSCOMMON|5029
25th |(25)|=|DONEGAL|4549
26th |(26)|=|TYRONE|4421
27th |(27)|=|FINGAL|4219
28th |(28)|=|MONAGHAN|3789
29th |(30)|+1|LONGFORD|3489
30th |(29)|-1|FERMANAGH|3450
31st |(31)|=|LOUTH|3298
32nd |(33)|+1|SLIGO|3132
33rd |(32)|-1|WARWICKSHIRE|3031
34th |(34)|=|LEITRIM|2705
35th |(35)|=|LANCASHIRE|2653


1A
That's 10 wins in a row now for Waterford in the league and they claim the number 2 spot in the rankings from Tipperary. Kilkenny holding firm in 1st, Cork almost certainly in a relegation play off now. Tipp and Galway meet next weekend with the loser most likely joining Cork in that play off.

1B
Limerick and Clare continue their march to the final round meeting which barring an upset next weekend will be a winner takes it all promotion play off between the two. Wexford took their frustrations out on Kerry, a game which illustrates just how big the gap is between top tier and middle tier, Laois and Kerry swap places.


2A
Westmeath almost certainly in the final now. Carlow responding well to the London defeat now in with a shot of making the final. Antrim v Carlow now effectively a semi final next weekend.

2B
Excellent result again for Mayo who are now firm favourites for promotion from this group. Wicklow destined for a relegation play off with Donegal.


3A
Roscommon maintain their 100% record but they fall behind neighbours Mayo in the rankings. Monaghan easing their relegation worries with their first win of the season.

3B
A good win for Sligo avenging the result in the Rackard cup final last season and Longford coming through as expected against Leitrim.

dastardly00

Keep up the good work HanaleiJ5N

CrabRevolution

After watching Meath hammer Donegal by 32 points, I'm curious to know what the maximum predicted scoreline in a match would be.

Say Kilkenny played Lancashire in Nowlan Park, would the model predict a 60+ point walloping? Or does it level out at some stage lower than that?

HanaleiJ5N

Division 1A

Cork (6) -v- (1) Kilkenny (Prediction; KLK by 5)
Galway (4) -v- (3) Tipperary (Prediction; GAL by 1)
Waterford (2) -v- (5) Dublin (Prediction; WAT by 7)

Even if Cork win both their remaining games they will probably still find themselves in the relegation play off, hard to see anything other than a Kilkenny win there. Waterford favourites to win an 11th league game in a row while Tipperary and Galway both seeking to find form, defeat for either team here will probably set up a relegation play off meeting with Cork.


Division 1B

Limerick (7) -v- (11) Laois (Prediction; LIM by 15)
Wexford (9) -v- (10) Offaly (Prediction; WEX by 5)
Clare (8) -v- (12) Kerry (Prediction; CLA by 15)

Clare and Limerick the last two standing as expected and will meet in Ennis in the final round with the winner taking promotion regardless of results this weekend, consequently both will most likely make many changes. And Wexford and Offaly pretty much playing for pride, relegation not a realistic threat though the victor can seal a quarter final place with a round to spare.


Division 2A

Kildare (16) -v- (13) Westmeath (Prediction; WES by 4)
Derry (19) -v- (17) London (Prediction; DER by 1)
Antrim (14) -v- (15) Carlow (Prediction; ANT by 5)

Relegation appears to be coming down to the final round clash between Kildare and Derry but Derry have an opportunity to pull London into the thick of the relegation fight if they defeat them this weekend. Westmeath should beat Kildare while the winner of the Antrim Carlow game will (barring an unlikely combination of results) join Westmeath in the 2A final.


Division 2B

Armagh (22) -v- (20) Meath (Prediction; MEA by 1)
Mayo (23) -v- (21) Wicklow (Prediction; MAY by 1)
Donegal (25) -v- (18) Down (Prediction; DOW by 10)

Rankings gap suggests Wicklow and Mayo will be close but this should be a very comfortable weekend for Mayo. Down should win comfortably against Donegal while Meath face a tricky assignment away to an Armagh side on good form, normally you'd tip Meath here but good chance of an upset here.


Division 3A

Warwickshire (33) -v- (24) Roscommon (Prediction; ROS by 17)
Fingal (27) -v- (28) Monaghan (Prediction; FIN by 7)
Louth (31) -v- (26) Tyrone (Prediction; TYR by 8)

Monaghan moving away from the relegation dogfight last weekend but can they force their way into the promotion fight by beating Fingal? More than likely a home win there, probably the only home win this weekend in 3B, should be two comfortable wins for Tyrone and Roscommon.


Division 3B

Fermanagh (30) -v- (29) Longford (Prediction; FER by 3)
Leitrim (34) -v- (32) Sligo (Prediction; SLI by 1)

Sligo started well last weekend but victory has gone Leitrim's way in their previous two league meetings, Sligo might shade this one. Fermanagh's promotion hopes pretty much over if they don't defeat Longford.

HanaleiJ5N

CrabRevolution wrote: »

After watching Meath hammer Donegal by 32 points, I'm curious to know what the maximum predicted scoreline in a match would be.

Say Kilkenny played Lancashire in Nowlan Park, would the model predict a 60+ point walloping? Or does it level out at some stage lower than that?

I'm not going to pretend the prediction model is any way sophisticated, it's basically just a measure of the rating gap with adjustments made for home advantage if required. For the championship I'm hoping to also factor in a form adjustment, I'm presently using the league as a guinea pig to find a decent form model to factor into predictions.

As for Kilkenny v Lancashire, at Nowlan Park; a 66 point margin predicted!!

galwaylad14

Must say as a hurling man and a bit of a Maths man I like this sort of thing. I read the first few posts just to see how points were being awarded, must say I would have thought a weighting would need to be given to Championship but I can see why you wouldn't as I understand how it would skew results because it's such a small sample size.

Must say those rankings would seem very close to what I'd probably come up with myself if I just sat down and ranked them so I'd have to say it must be doing a fairly decent job.

How has it worked out in terms of predicitng scorelines generally? I know this wasn't what it was designed to but it's an interesting off shoot.

HanaleiJ5N

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Must say as a hurling man and a bit of a Maths man I like this sort of thing. I read the first few posts just to see how points were being awarded, must say I would have thought a weighting would need to be given to Championship but I can see why you wouldn't as I understand how it would skew results because it's such a small sample size.

Must say those rankings would seem very close to what I'd probably come up with myself if I just sat down and ranked them so I'd have to say it must be doing a fairly decent job.

How has it worked out in terms of predicitng scorelines generally? I know this wasn't what it was designed to but it's an interesting off shoot.

Things have changed since this thread was created, early last year I went back to the beginning and redid the rankings with a 50% weighting to championship games. In terms of predicting scorelines, it's okay, success rate generally in the 70-80% range, but to be honest, that's as much down to the fact that traditionally things don't really change that much in hurling, unlike in football there are very definite ceilings limiting just how far a team can go.

In the last few years, the most unpredictable part of the table has been the 7 teams behind Kilkenny. After that, you'd be surprised how easy it is to predict results with as high as a 90% success rate.

Bonniedog

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Things have changed since this thread was created, early last year I went back to the beginning and redid the rankings with a 50% weighting to championship games. In terms of predicting scorelines, it's okay, success rate generally in the 70-80% range, but to be honest, that's as much down to the fact that traditionally things don't really change that much in hurling, unlike in football there are very definite ceilings limiting just how far a team can go.

In the last few years, the most unpredictable part of the table has been the 7 teams behind Kilkenny. After that, you'd be surprised how easy it is to predict results with as high as a 90% success rate.

Have you used your stats for betting purposes?

HanaleiJ5N

Bonniedog wrote: »

Have you used your stats for betting purposes?

Nope! And I wouldn't advise that it alone be used as such either, it would be a good accompaniment to someone who has a good read on the form of teams though, look at Mayo and Wicklow, Mayo still ranked behind but the form team in division 2B. Their trajectory is on an upward curve while Wicklow are static at best, if anything trending slightly downward.

The rankings will only tell you how good a team has been as opposed to how good they are or will be, like London hammering Carlow a few weeks ago, big upset in terms of the ranking table, and a big upset to most people in general, probably not to those who had an awareness of Carlow's problems this year.

It's best to think of this as a sort of league that takes into account how each team has fared over their last 10-15 games. I could make the points exchanges larger to emphasise more recent results and give a better reflection of form, but a form table is a completely different thing than a ranking table, that's not what I was aiming for.

I like what laoisman11 has done with the football rankings, he puts just a little more emphasis on form than I do by widening the scope of the points range and altering the exchange formula slightly, he does it just enough so it doesn't come too close to being a form table.

Bonniedog

The historical rankings are very interesting. Reminds me of visiting exotic places like Athleague and Bellaghy and Trim when Dublin were in Division III. Not always happy visits either!

HanaleiJ5N

Bonniedog wrote: »

The historical rankings are very interesting. Reminds me of visiting exotic places like Athleague and Bellaghy and Trim when Dublin were in Division III. Not always happy visits either!

I must try and find a way of putting the 50 years together and post it here, would have done it before but not quite sure how to represent that info in a nice readable user friendly way. I'll find a way!

Bonniedog

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

I must try and find a way of putting the 50 years together and post it here, would have done it before but not quite sure how to represent that info in a nice readable user friendly way. I'll find a way!

That be some job!

I do baseball and basketball stats but American records are very accessible going back a long time. I imagine getting league results in hurling going back years must be a big task?

HanaleiJ5N

General comment; predictions took a hammering this weekend, many unexpected results!

Position|previous|change|Team|Points
1st |(1)|=|KILKENNY|9081
2nd |(3)|+1|TIPPERARY|8730
3rd |(2)|-1|WATERFORD|8700
4th |(5)|+2|DUBLIN|8621
5th |(4)|-1|GALWAY|8495
6th |(7)|+1|LIMERICK|8173
7th |(8)|+1|CLARE|8140
8th |(6)|-2|CORK|8138
9th |(10)|+1|OFFALY|7518
10th |(9)|-1|WEXFORD|7498
11th |(11)|=|LAOIS|6956
12th |(12)|=|KERRY|6909
13th |(13)|=|WESTMEATH|6804
14th |(15)|+1|CARLOW|6447
15th |(14)|-1|ANTRIM|6409
16th |(17)|+1|LONDON|6017
17th |(16)|-1|KILDARE|5935
18th |(18)|=|DOWN|5860
19th |(19)|=|DERRY|5638
20th |(20)|=|MEATH|5442
21st |(21)|=|WICKLOW|5381
22nd |(22)|=|ARMAGH|5341
23rd |(23)|=|MAYO|5036
24th |(24)|=|ROSCOMMON|5029
25th |(25)|=|DONEGAL|4471
26th |(26)|=|TYRONE|4298
27th |(27)|=|FINGAL|4105
28th |(28)|=|MONAGHAN|3904
29th |(30)|+1|FERMANAGH|3516
30th |(29)|-1|LONGFORD|3423
31st |(31)|=|LOUTH|3420
32nd |(32)|=|SLIGO|3032
33rd |(33)|=|WARWICKSHIRE|3031
34th |(34)|=|LEITRIM|2805
35th |(35)|=|LANCASHIRE|2653


1A
Cork in to the play off as expected while Kilkenny and Dublin join Waterford in the quarter finals, Waterford's long unbeaten run coming to an end. Cork fall to 8th, Tipp and Waterford swap places as do Galway and Dublin.

1B
Limerick and Clare with comfortable wins as expected, enabling them to move ahead of Cork in the rankings. Massive game between the two next weekend to determine who goes up. Offaly move to 9th after their win at Wexford Park, many permutations at play in terms of determining the finishing positions of remaining 4 teams, technically all 4 teams have a chance of making the quarter finals and all 4 are still not mathematically safe from the relegation play off. In all likelihood though, Wex and Off will take the QF places with Lao v Ker in the play off.


2A
Westmeath confirming their place in the final with victory at Kildare while Carlow have blown the group wide open ahead of the final round of fixtures. London have emerged as a surprise contender for the remaining final place, win at home to Antrim (who may have their Cushendall contingent back) and they join Westmeath unless Carlow can defeat front runners Westmeath enabling them to take the place. All to play for in all 3 games in the final round, including a relegation shoot out between Derry and Kildare.

2B
Two surprise results, Mayo after their excellent start fell to relegation threatened Wicklow, while Armagh claimed a big victory at home to Meath. Three teams in with a chance of making the final now, even if Meath defeat Down they will still tie with either Armagh or Mayo, both who have defeated Meath and would finish ahead as head to head is the decider. Wicklow still not safe although they should be able to see off Donegal next weekend.


3A
An interesting chase has developed behind Roscommon for the remaining place in the final with 4 teams now tied on 4 points, many permutations here but it should all come down to the Louth v Fingal game as Roscommon and Monaghan would be expected to win their games. Roscommon were 6 points down with 15 minutes to go against Warwickshire, they may have won four from four but they haven't been overly convincing ahead of the Christy Ring Cup.

3B
Sligo have struggled in Carrick-on-Shannon over the years and today proved no different, while Fermanagh got their promotion bid back on track. All to play for next weekend, all four teams have won one, lost one, so next weekends games are essentially semi finals.

CrabRevolution

Just to prolong our agony, Meath are still in it in division 2B. If there's a winner in the Armagh/Mayo match and we beat Down by 2 or more points it'll have 3 teams on 6 points going for the 2nd spot in the final. Meath would have the advantage there, as we'd then be ahead of both Down and the loser of Armagh/Mayo on score difference.

Mayo's wins so far have all been narrow enough, while Meath's hosing of Donegal has given them a very healthy score difference.

If Armagh and Mayo draw we're out. If we draw or lose we are out. We could also win and still go out, but only in the case that a very very specific scoring scenario comes to pass. If (and only if) Meath win by 1 point, and Armagh win by 4+, we're out.

Hammer Archer

I think Meath still have a remote chance of making the final in 2B. If they beat Down and the Mayo - Armagh game doesn't finish level, there'll be three teams level on 6 points. That's when score difference would come into play meaning Meath's 30+ point win last weekend could be vital.
If Meath beat Down by 3 or more points in their final game and there's a winner in the other game, Meath go through as far as I can see.
Edit: Had this typed up before I saw CR's post above

CrabRevolution

Forgot to also include that if Meath win by 1 point and Mayo win, we are out. We had a ridiculous bit of luck with a swing in score difference last year, hopefully it doesn't turn around to punish us this year.

HanaleiJ5N

Sorry guys, my mistake, you're both correct! Division 2B has had more than a few surprises along the way so you couldn't really rule anything out next weekend.

Kerrydude1981

After all the hope I had at the start of the league the past two weekends have knocked it out of me,I was surprised that we never really performed against Wexford I was full sure we would give them a good game of it,but the team looked a bit flat,

Yesterday's result against Clare was expected,

But then Offaly turned everything upside down and beat Wexford

So now next week we will be facing an Offaly team high in confidence,looks like now we will be facing Laois again in that relegation play off.

All part of the learning curve I suppose.

Bonniedog

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

After all the hope I had at the start of the league the past two weekends have knocked it out of me,I was surprised that we never really performed against Wexford I was full sure we would give them a good game of it,but the team looked a bit flat,

Yesterday's result against Clare was expected,

But then Offaly turned everything upside down and beat Wexford

So now next week we will be facing an Offaly team high in confidence,looks like now we will be facing Laois again in that relegation play off.

All part of the learning curve I suppose.

It is big step up. Dublin shipped some terrible hidings when in similar situation a few years back and there were always plenty of people ready to laugh at us, and knowingly decide that we were never going to be a "hurling county".

Kerry are out of their comfort zone now, and will learn from it. This is worth years of lower division hurling just as the Leinster round robin will be worth years of winning the CR.

Stick with it!

Kerrydude1981

Bonniedog wrote: »

It is big step up. Dublin shipped some terrible hidings when in similar situation a few years back and there were always plenty of people ready to laugh at us, and knowingly decide that we were never going to be a "hurling county".

Kerry are out of their comfort zone now, and will learn from it. This is worth years of lower division hurling just as the Leinster round robin will be worth years of winning the CR.

Stick with it!

Oh don't worry there won't be no throwing in the towel

HanaleiJ5N

Division 1A

Kilkenny (1) -v- (4) Dublin (Prediction; KLK by 7)
Tipperary (2) -v- (8) Cork (Prediction; TIP by 9)
Waterford (3) -v- (5) Galway (Prediction; WAT by 5)

Kilkenny and Dublin both through to QF's, victory for either teams means an easier QF assignment (not playing one of Limerick or Clare). Waterford also safely through with Cork in the relegation play off so it's all about Tipp and Galway's scrap to make the QF's and avoid the play off with Cork. Tipp have the advantage, a home tie to Cork represents a less tricky assignment that faces Galway (away to Waterford), Galway also have to overturn Tipperary's 13 point advantage in scoring difference.

Division 1B

Clare (7) -v- (6) Limerick (Prediction; CLA by 2)
Laois (11) -v- (10) Wexford (Prediction; WEX by 2)
Offaly (9) -v- (12) Kerry (Prediction; OFF by 9)

Clare and Limerick meet in Ennis, winner goes up to 1A so this will be a ferocious battle. Laois and Kerry still have a chance of making the quarter finals but both would be required to win their games and Laois overhaul a massive points difference. Neither likely I'm afraid.

Predicted final 1A table: 1-WAT, 2-KLK, 3-DUB, 4-TIP, 5-GAL, 6-COR.
Predicted final 1B table: 1-CLA, 2-LIM, 3-OFF, 4-WEX, 5-KER, 6-LAO.


Division 2A

Carlow (14) -v- (13) Westmeath (Prediction; WES by 1)
Kildare (17) -v- (19) Derry (Prediction; KLD by 6)
London (16) -v- (15) Antrim (Prediction; ANT by 1)

London have emerged as unlikely front-runners in the race to join Westmeath in the final, Carlow have their fate in their own hands, win and they're through but they face a difficult task against Westmeath. If Westmeath win, London just need to draw to finish second. Antrim are actually out of contention, they can't finish ahead of Westmeath or Carlow in any scenario. Kildare and Derry essentially a relegation play off, winner stays in 2A, a draw will do Kildare.

Division 2B

Armagh (22) -v- (23) Mayo (Prediction; ARM by 6)
Down (18) -v- (20) Meath (Prediction; DOW by 7)
Wicklow (21) -v- (25) Donegal (Prediction; WIC by 11)

If I were a betting man I'd run a mile from this division! Mayo after all their hard work defeating the two pre season favourites, away from home, lost at home to relegation threatened Wicklow. They now must win another away game at in form Armagh to seal their place in the final. Down should have enough to claim victory at home to Meath but this division has tended to have other idea's on what should and shouldn't happen. Wicklow and Donegal face off ahead of their meeting in the relegation final, Wicklow would be expected to win both games.

Predicted final 2A table: 1-WES, 2-CAR, 3-ANT, 4-LDN, 5-KLD, 6-DER.
Predicted final 2B table: 1-DOW, 2-ARM, 3-MAY, 4-MEA, 5-WIC, 6-DON.

Division 3A

Louth (31) -v- (27) Fingal (Prediction; FIN by 4)
Monaghan (28) -v- (33) Warwickshire (Prediction; MON by 12)
Roscommon (24) -v- (26) Tyrone (Prediction; ROS by 10)

Roscommon in the final, Warwickshire relegated. The four remaining teams all on 4 points. Monaghan should win at home to Warwickshire, and given they have defeated both Louth and Fingal neither would be able to overhaul Monaghan if they win. Unless, Roscommon are defeated by Tyrone which suddenly brings it all down to points difference, a scenario in which Fingal start with a massive advantage. However, even given the fact that Roscommon while having gone defeated have not exactly been overly convincing, I still expect that they would not slip up at home to Tyrone. A Roscommon v Monaghan final for me.

Division 3B

Leitrim (34) -v- (29) Fermanagh (Prediction; FER by 4)
Sligo (32) -v- (30) Longford (Prediction; LFD by 1)

They're all square in 3B which in effect turns the final round of games into semi finals. Fermanagh should win in Carrick-on-Shannon but the other game is a tough call based on form so far although Longford had a 20+ point victory in this tie last year.

Predicted final 3A table: 1-ROS, 2-MON, 3-FIN, 4-LOU, 5-TYR, 6-WAR.
Predicted final 3B table: 1-FER, 2-LFD, 3-LEI, 4-SLI.

Mehapoy

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

After all the hope I had at the start of the league the past two weekends have knocked it out of me,I was surprised that we never really performed against Wexford I was full sure we would give them a good game of it,but the team looked a bit flat,

Yesterday's result against Clare was expected,

But then Offaly turned everything upside down and beat Wexford

So now next week we will be facing an Offaly team high in confidence,looks like now we will be facing Laois again in that relegation play off.

All part of the learning curve I suppose.

Even in that situation you'd fancy Kerry to beat laois, I think laois have disimproved since the league started while Kerry will have learned a lot, would be a shame to see them only last one year in the higher division...

HanaleiJ5N

Position|previous|change|Team|Points
1st |(1)|=|KILKENNY|9102
2nd |(2)|=|TIPPERARY|8744
3rd |(3)|=|WATERFORD|8666
4th |(4)|=|DUBLIN|8600
5th |(5)|=|GALWAY|8529
6th |(7)|+1|CLARE|8205
7th |(8)|+1|CORK|8124
8th |(6)|-2|LIMERICK|8108
9th |(10)|+1|WEXFORD|7549
10th |(9)|-1|OFFALY|7391
11th |(12)|+1|KERRY|7036
12th |(11)|-1|LAOIS|6905
13th |(13)|=|WESTMEATH|6733
14th |(14)|=|CARLOW|6518
15th |(15)|=|ANTRIM|6336
16th |(16)|=|LONDON|6090
17th |(17)|=|KILDARE|5975
18th |(18)|=|DOWN|5891
19th |(19)|=|DERRY|5643
20th |(20)|=|MEATH|5411
21st |(22)|+1|ARMAGH|5385
22nd |(21)|-1|WICKLOW|5381
23rd |(24)|+1|ROSCOMMON|5029
24th |(23)|-1|MAYO|4992
25th |(25)|=|DONEGAL|4471
26th |(26)|=|TYRONE|4298
27th |(27)|=|FINGAL|3920
28th |(28)|=|MONAGHAN|3904
29th |(31)|+2|LOUTH|3605
30th |(29)|-1|FERMANAGH|3581
31st |(30)|-2|LONGFORD|3524
32nd |(33)|+1|WARWICKSHIRE|3031
33rd |(32)|-1|SLIGO|2931
34th |(34)|=|LEITRIM|2740
35th |(35)|=|LANCASHIRE|2653


1A
Kilkenny take top spot as Waterford were held by Galway, who will now face Cork for the right to remain in 1A.

1B
Clare make a swift return to 1A as Limerick maintain their status as the perennial bridesmaids of 1B. Laois pushed Wexford right to the wire but the big story here is another major win for Kerry. Yes, they shipped two big defeats in the last two rounds but over the campaign they have proven themselves worthy of this level. They have laid down a serious marker against one of their opponents in the Leinster qualifier group in a few months, and but for a late winner by Wexford they could have had a league quarter final meeting with Waterford to look forward to in two weekends time.

2A
Carlow were in disarray after two rounds but since then they have fought back well to claim a spot in the final with Westmeath. London did all they could to capatilise should Carlow not win but their victory over Antrim was alas not enough to claim a final spot. Antrim; hitting new lows unfortunately, picking up from where they left off after a nightmare 2015. Derry relegated.

2B
Unfortunately Mayo completely blew it, after an excellent first three games they stumbled badly at the business end. Armagh profit from their collapse but to be fair they are well worth their place in the final with Down. Meath finish a disappointing campaign with defeat to Down while Wicklow and Donegal's dress rehearsal for the relegation final went emphatically in favour of the Garden county.


3A
As expected Monaghan claim the other place in the final with Roscommon who finish the group with a 100% record, themselves and Clare being the only counties to do so. A big win for Louth over neighbours Fingal see's them move up two places in the table.

3B
Fermanagh and Longford both qualify for the final. Fermanagh looking for an immediate return to 3A after their relegation last year while Longford will be looking to atone for their shock loss to Warwickshire in last years 3B final.


Now, following today's game and the continuation of Limerick's long stay out of the top flight I'm off for a night of some major sorrow drowning :pac::(

HanaleiJ5N

Going to do this now as I won't be able to next week.

Division 1 Quarter Finals
Dublin (4) -v- (8) Limerick (Prediction; DUB by 8)
Kilkenny (1) -v- (10) Offaly (Prediction; KLK by 20)
Wexford (9) -v- (3) Waterford (Prediction; WAT by 8)
Clare (6) -v- (2) Tipperary (Prediction; TIP by 2)

Division 1A Relegation Final
Galway (5) -v- (7) Cork (Prediction; GAL by 7)

Division 1A Relegation Final
Kerry (11) -v- (12) Laois (Prediction; KER by 4)

A format that pits the leagues 10th best team against the leagues 1st placed team risks a potential massacre, hopefully that doesn't happen but the last time these two teams met (in a competitive game) Kilkenny won by 26 points. Dublin beat Limerick easily in the meeting between the two at this stage last year and they could do so again. Home advantage for Wexford didn't prevent Waterford from registering a comfortable win last season while Clare are best placed of the 1B teams to defeat a 1A team.

Cork and Laois both with one last chance to register a first win of 2016 and snatch safety from the jaws of relegation but based on the group stages two home victories should be expected in these play offs. Laois and Kerry do have the benefit of one final chance should they lose.


Division 2A Final
Carlow (14) -v- (13) Westmeath (Prediction; WES by 2)
You have to hand it to Carlow, their response to the disastrous defeat at home to London has been excellent and they have fought their way back into contention. They defeated Westmeath last weekend but there was nothing on the line for a Westmeath team who had already booked their place in the final. Different story this time around.

Division 2A Relegation Final
In this division, unlike in three other groups the 5th placed team is deemed to have done enough to guarantee their safety while the 6th placed team is automatically relegated unlike their last placed counterparts in 1A and 2B who are deemed worthy of one last chance and the last placed team in 1B that gets two last chances. Go figure...


Division 2B Final
Down (18) -v- (21) Armagh (Prediction; DOW by 5)
Down won the group stage between the two by two points, Armagh have responded well to that defeat registering 4 wins on the trot.

Division 2B Relegation Final
Wicklow (22) -v- (25) Donegal (Prediction; WIC by 9)
Wicklow should be comfortable here. Donegal punching above their weight in this division.


Division 3A Final
Roscommon (23) -v- (28) Monaghan (Prediction; ROS by 11)
Roscommon punching below their weight in this division haven't exactly been emphatically putting teams away but they should still have enough to claim the silverware here. One suspects they would fare far better in 2B than Monaghan might.

Division 3A Relegation Final
See Division 2A Relegation Final.


Division 3B Final
Fermanagh (30) -v- (31) Longford (Prediction; FER by 1)
Tough one to call, Fermanagh edged the group stage meeting between the two but that meeting aside Longford have been more convincing.

CrabRevolution

Division 2B must have made a mockery of the ranking system this year!

Kerrydude1981

Great win by Armagh today

Is there anywhere online that league results from down the years are archived?

Wiki has league tables alright