IFA day trip to Dublin. /protest/charade ect.

mf240

Anyone going Tuesday, got three texts about it, what will it entail?

kevthegaff

Leaflets, speeches, a bit of protesting, a few pints in roddy bolands and then off to coppers for the night.

biddy2013

tb testing that day, have it orgainised this 6 weeks so not going

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

Leaflets, speeches, a bit of protesting, a few pints in roddy bolands and then off to coppers for the night.

Right Kev I'm going with you,feck the protest well go straight to coppers

onyerbikepat

I used to get into Coppers for free when I lived in Dublin. Even then I thought it was too much.

Miname

Another waste of time with them. The general public needs to be informed properly of the income and time farmers spend to make a few quid. To the general joe soap its going to look like the crying farmers are out begging for more money from the eu. Little do they realise most lads are losing money and the subs are the only income a lot get, when they realise this the vast majority of decent people may then try and support farmers properly. How come there arent more articles being written that might help put farmers in a better light or government intervention in the current mess to get this sorted. This protest will do damn all bar make a few ifa men feel better about themselves and make everyone else think we are constantly whingeing.

rancher

mf240 wrote: »

Anyone going Tuesday, got three texts about it, what will it entail?

Lambing has started here, that takes priority

Hershall

Heard Downey on farming programme this morning thought he was brutal. Don't know what a March in Dublin will achieve???

Conmaicne Mara

rancher wrote: »

Lambing has started here, that takes priority

All going well?

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

All going well?

It's 147 days since the rams went out to the first batch, so they're due to start today.....kicked of with 2 triplets, 1 double and a stillborn double today, so tonight there's 4 ewes rearing two lambs each

red bull

Why do farmers allways suffer from the wrong doings of others.we had nothing to do with the horsemeat scandal but we are made pay for it. Ireland's main beef processor was up to his neck in it,but we pay in terms of new spec on animals going into meat plants. Have you or anyone ever heard of a consumer question the age of the animal that their steak came from ? I don't think so.

awaywithyou

mahoney_j wrote: »

Right Kev I'm going with you,feck the protest well go straight to coppers

ah jaysus cant go to coppers without heading to Flannerys first!!

Downey and the IFA would be better off entering into negotiations with the management at Coppers bout giving farmers free entry into the place... rather than a stupid march which will achieve SFA.

why do IFA presidents feel the need to have a march in dublin after they are elected??? getting a bit boring at tthis stage especially when absolutely fcuk all comes out of em.....

freedominacup

awaywithyou wrote: »

why do IFA presidents feel the need to have a march in dublin after they are elected??? getting a bit boring at tthis stage especially when absolutely fcuk all comes out of em.....

They're gone to this stage now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC_abUffrcE

merryberry

Social media campaigns would b far more effective in highlighting the plight of farmers rather than another protest in the capital. Most consumers dont differentiate between farming enterprises, regional disadvantage or profit making years/ loss making years. How manys times have u heard "Ah milk was 38c a litre last year, they making lots of money" when in reality the high price was their saving grace given the weather and fodder crisis. Beef was breaking €4.60 kg last summer, what good was this to the suckler farmer selling weanlings. Give people the facts. They need the basic information. Farming bodies need to be more proactive with social media tools and use it to penetrate their message and give farmers concerns more credibility because to me protests fall on deaf ears.

Conmaicne Mara

merryberry wrote: »

Social media campaigns would b far more effective in highlighting the plight of farmers rather than another protest in the capital. Most consumers dont differentiate between farming enterprises, regional disadvantage or profit making years/ loss making years. How manys times have u heard "Ah milk was 38c a litre last year, they making lots of money" when in reality the high price was their saving grace given the weather and fodder crisis. Beef was breaking €4.60 kg last summer, what good was this to the suckler farmer selling weanlings. Give people the facts. They need the basic information. Farming bodies need to be more proactive with social media tools and use it to penetrate their message and give farmers concerns more credibility because to me protests fall on deaf ears.

Just keep Bord Bia away from it, fupping rain growing lambs nonsense.

John_F

the disconnect between general public and farming is unreal, last night i was at a meal and people would ask what do you do, say your a farmer and you might aswell say your drawing the dole, the reply was ' oh shur thats alright too'

it would get you down when you think of the work that goes into making stuff for people to eat and also when you think of other countries where farmers are regarded among the top in society along with doctors, lawyers etc. and rightly so, i mean the woman was just after eating food which either a fisherman caught or a farmer reared, and this person is a 'townie', if she was a city dweller id say she would have to ask what is a farmer.

disrupting the city of dublin is not the answer, money should be spent on

• educating people where there food comes from and that without the farmer the chain doesn't even start
• showing people what it does to a rural economy
• not going into a shop protesting about the price, then buying all the product at the price your'e protesting about and then giving out the veg or meat free to housewives
• showing people that cap actually puts cheap food on there table
• showing people that grants help rural economy, production and family life for the farmer
• show people what the price of food should be and how food price inflation is kept low compared to other goods

rancher

John_F wrote: »

the disconnect between general public and farming is unreal, last night i was at a meal and people would ask what do you do, say your a farmer and you might aswell say your drawing the dole, the reply was ' oh shur thats alright too'

it would get you down when you think of the work that goes into making stuff for people to eat and also when you think of other countries where farmers are regarded among the top in society along with doctors, lawyers etc. and rightly so, i mean the woman was just after eating food which either a fisherman caught or a farmer reared, and this person is a 'townie', if she was a city dweller id say she would have to ask what is a farmer.

disrupting the city of dublin is not the answer, money should be spent on

• educating people where there food comes from and that without the farmer the chain doesn't even start
• showing people what it does to a rural economy
• not going into a shop protesting about the price, then buying all the product at the price your'e protesting about and then giving out the veg or meat free to housewives
• showing people that cap actually puts cheap food on there table
• showing people that grants help rural economy, production and family life for the farmer
• show people what the price of food should be and how food price inflation is kept low compared to other goods

You're not going to achieve any thing by spouting about it on an anonymous forum you know, if you haven't the interest in getting involved, it's not fair to criticise those who do.
I'm not going to lead any charge on cattle prices, ewes are lambing here, but if I can I'll go up for an hour and support it.
There's nothing stopping the ''experts '' here running the organisation, and when they're in they can do it their way.

John_F

also show people that we export a hell alot of food, tell them how much milk goes into baby food etc.
there is so much good things about irish farming people don't realise

social media has a massive role and most influence, certainly better than having ifa protest, or have an ifa man on a panel on prime time arguing rather than educating.


bord bia actually have a few good videos on youtube, nothing like the man with the rain making a better lamb but stuff with facts, don't know why these aren't on the tv - maybe they are in other countries

http://www.youtube.com/user/bordbia

why isnt this on the telly though, give irish farmers a boost and show the public at the same time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvJiZHq3xMA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYl1_t8QP1M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mBxSOl2mL8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB8xIf5Ux98

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGvKoz8FP5o

John_F

rancher wrote: »

You're not going to achieve any thing by spouting about it on an anonymous forum you know, if you haven't the interest in getting involved, it's not fair to criticise those who do.
I'm not going to lead any charge on cattle prices, ewes are lambing here, but if I can I'll go up for an hour and support it.
There's nothing stopping the ''experts '' here running the organisation, and when they're in they can do it their way.

what are the people in dublin going to do, take pity?? the problem re cattle prices is the factorys and supermarkets, not the public for not paying enough really

ps so people who run the organisation do it their way at the moment?? thought it was an orgainsation representing over 88000 farmers, their views, their rights etc. but u say only people at the top get to decide what gets done :pac: ifa really needs a rethink of its approach rancher, it should be bringing farmers and non farmers together, not disrupting peoples daily lives with trips to dublin

blue5000

Def not going, calving in full swing here now. What is the point in going?

biddy2013

How much does it cost to stage one of these protests

rancher

John_F wrote: »

ps so people who run the organisation do it their way at the moment?? thought it was an orgainsation representing over 88000 farmers, their views, their rights etc. but u say only people at the top get to decide what gets done :pac: ifa really needs a rethink of its approach rancher, it should be bringing farmers and non farmers together, not disrupting peoples daily lives with trips to dublin

We're elected to decide, to make decisions, we're getting phone calls to do something about beef prices, we're being told we're not doing any thing because we're afraid that the factories will stop collecting levies, so you see this action is being driven from the members on the ground.
I don't want to have to go to Dublin, but there's lots of farmers out there losing there shirt on cattle and I know some that have no other source of income since the recession and we'll try everything for them.
There could be 100 national officers involved in this decision so you can't say its not representative

Base price

I agree with previous posters that the rural/urban divide is unreal considering we are a small island and that quite a high portion of urban dwellers are either from a farming background or one or both of their parents are. I think John_F has made a valid point about having a media campaign with emphasis on the quality etc of our produce. McD's and Aldi have done more for promoting Irish beef (domestically) than any other body.
Prices started slipping in Oct and by Nov & Dec finishers were in serious trouble.
I have always believed in the right to protest but in this case I think the IFA were lax in not organising a protest much sooner. In the meantime the factories have yet again made nice profits at the expense of us farmers :mad:

I was going to go to the protest on Tuesday but got a run for that day.

frazzledhome

No prob with march on Tues.
Will get a minute or two on the news but useless unless followed up with a social media campaign. The farmers protesting know what's going on but no one else gives a toss. Don't go mentioning price but rather margin as housewife feels she's already paying enough. We need to make the shopper our ally.

A clear message should also be that all farmers are pulling all support for Board Bia as its toothless for marketing and did nothing to prevent horse meat scandal. As another poster said the supermarkets do more promotion than BB any day.

Protest is good but only if its more than a day out in Dublin

Username John

There is a division here on whether the protest should take place or not.

For those who don't agree with the protest, what would ye suggest to put pressure in the factories? (Not that this protest does, but I think that's the idea of it? )

Base price

Username John wrote: »

There is a division here on whether the protest should take place or not.

For those who don't agree with the protest, what would ye suggest to put pressure in the factories? (Not that this protest does, but I think that's the idea of it? )

I agree with you that the protest will not put any pressure on the factories.
One thing going into the future is that the factories cannot have access to an individual AIMS/CMMS figures.
I am sure under the Data Protection Act it is actually against the law.

Rancher: Do you know if the IFA have actually made a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner on this issue?

rancher

Base price wrote: »

I agree with you that the protest will not put any pressure on the factories.
One thing going into the future is that the factories cannot have access to an individual AIMS/CMMS figures.
I am sure under the Data Protection Act it is actually against the law.

Rancher: Do you know if the IFA have actually made a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner on this issue?

We haven't been able to get any proof that they are accessing AIMS, how could they do it, isn't it password protected, only have sheep here, so don't know how it operates.
They seem to have a lot of information on some farmers though, Downey has brought it up with Coveney lately, of course he says its not happening.
The dept should be able to know whose accessing AIMS and monitor it.
The fact is that there's no one able to provide evidence despite the rumours

Base price

rancher wrote: »

We haven't been able to get any proof that they are accessing AIMS, how could they do it, isn't it password protected, only have sheep here, so don't know how it operates.
They seem to have a lot of information on some farmers though, Downey has brought it up with Coveney lately, of course he says its not happening.
The dept should be able to know whose accessing AIMS and monitor it.
The fact is that there's no one able to provide evidence despite the rumours

Mmmm.... in my opinion more need for the Data Commissioner to be involved so. DC has the resources to investigate if there was or is a breach in the system.

rancher

Base price wrote: »

Mmmm.... in my opinion more need for the Data Commissioner to be involved so. DC has the resources to investigate if there was or is a breach in the system.

I have been corrected, things have progressed.....very interesting

onyerbikepat

What I can't understand with the recent behaviour of the factories is surely more and more beef guys will now be even more likely to switch over to Dairying. And when they do make that switch, they will be unlikely to switch back.
You would think they would try and keep guys in the game. This might be the last straw for a lot of finishers.

mf240

Only hope are live exports, get as many calves weanlings bull and store cattle out of the country live, and whatever scrap is left back throw them into Larry once a year straight off the grass.

Base price

rancher wrote: »

I have been corrected, things have progressed.....very interesting

Sorry I don't understand what you mean.

rancher

Base price wrote: »

Sorry I don't understand what you mean.

Information that I gave you was out of date it seems, some one corrected me , probably find out more on tuesday

John_F

rancher wrote: »

We're elected to decide, to make decisions, we're getting phone calls to do something about beef prices, we're being told we're not doing any thing because we're afraid that the factories will stop collecting levies, so you see this action is being driven from the members on the ground.
I don't want to have to go to Dublin, but there's lots of farmers out there losing there shirt on cattle and I know some that have no other source of income since the recession and we'll try everything for them.
There could be 100 national officers involved in this decision so you can't say its not representative

fair enough so.

another vid from the European Commission, goes somewhat to getting urban support for farming. as said for a small country its v bad to have that much of a divide, and then when we export most of the product and not even have our own population behind it etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKXgAYQk4RU

tim04750

onyerbikepat wrote: »

What I can't understand with the recent behaviour of the factories is surely more and more beef guys will now be even more likely to switch over to Dairying. And when they do make that switch, they will be unlikely to switch back.
You would think they would try and keep guys in the game. This might be the last straw for a lot of finishers.

Would it be too far fetched to surmise that the bean counters in government have come to the conclusion that the only real money that the economy is generating at the moment is from export based agri , and as such anything and everything should be done to capitalise on this, including allowing or encouraging the processors to screw beef farmers to the wall ,
" if we can't lead them to milk , we'll drive them to milk "

6600

rancher wrote: »

The fact is that there's no one able to provide evidence despite the rumours

That's what was said about the horsemeat too.. I saw horses being assembled and fed by factory agents. I'm talking shedloads. No one said a word about this during the scandal. Burger King didn't pull their contract for sport. The current crisis is caused by a demand problem not oversupply.

rancher

6600 wrote: »

That's what was said about the horsemeat too.. I saw horses being assembled and fed by factory agents. I'm talking shedloads. No one said a word about this during the scandal. Burger King didn't pull their contract for sport. The current crisis is caused by a demand problem not oversupply.

Maybe this is nearer to the truth
The fact is that there's no one able willing to provide evidence despite the rumours

Sheep breeder

would the problem stem from all the poor quality and under finished cattle that is building up in the system, that should have went to the veal units as calves. as for going to dublin to march, better off at home and look at the books and see where you can improve than following the front row of the scrum who are looking for a photo for thr front page of the journal when it comes to voting again to say they were there.

bbam

We stopped our IFA membership so I probably should stay out of this conversation.
But, I worked in Dublin for long enough to know that any protest that disrupts peoples daily life is a bad idea. If you choke up Dublin and delay people getting home to pick up kids from childminders etc they don't care why your protesting or how hard your life is. You've kept them from their kids and they often have to pay additional fees for 30-40 minutes childcare.
Protests are often counterproductive if they upset the exact people you think your appealing to. You need to understand the people your trying to get on your side and not aloninate them. I've heard them come into work the next day moaning about farmers delaying them, costing them more money. It does no good.

rancher

Sheep breeder wrote: »

would the problem stem from all the poor quality and under finished cattle that is building up in the system, that should have went to the veal units as calves. as for going to dublin to march, better off at home and look at the books and see where you can improve than following the front row of the scrum who are looking for a photo for thr front page of the journal when it comes to voting again to say they were there.

Can't accuse me of that, my OH reckons I go to the pub when I go to Dublin as she has never seen me in a protest photo.( she could be right)

reilig

6600 wrote: »

That's what was said about the horsemeat too.. I saw horses being assembled and fed by factory agents. I'm talking shedloads. No one said a word about this during the scandal. Burger King didn't pull their contract for sport. The current crisis is caused by a demand problem not oversupply.

Interesting post. I too know 2 people who used to finish cattle for the factories up until about 2006. Both of them then got into horses - bought everything and anything so long as they were cheap and fed them in the adapted facilities that they once used for cattle. However since the horse meat scandal neither have bought any horse. One has gone back into cattle. Both of these men would be regular buyers of cattle for meat factories in some of the marts that I would attend.

Methinks that perhaps it's no coincidence that the market for horse meat collapsed right after the scandal with "imported horse meat" being disguised as beef.

Your final point makes sense. The demand is there for the beef, but the "cheap beef" (NNNNEEEIIIGGGHH) is no longer available so the factories are making the beef farmers compensate for their loss!

moy83

Its supposed to be very handy to put meat on horses too .
A lad here got out of cattle a few years ago and started buying huge amounts of horses in the last few years . He was rumored to have 900 at one time !

Farmer Pudsey

IMO it is a combination of events. Now what is in a package or tin has to be what it says. The big super markets and fasty food resturants got caught with there pants down. Not for all the talk about suing LG et al we hear nothing about it. Is this because the supermarkets buyers were aware what was going on. How could you make 8-4oz burgers for 2 pounds sterling when the cheapest beef was 4/kg carcasees weight. It did not take a mathamatican to figure that out.

The other issue was for the few years the beef prices in Ireland were in between the UK and Continental European price yet our beef went 50/50 to both markets. IMO the UK supermarket chiefs saw what price the Irish factory's were paying for beef sourced for them and saw that this was subsidising the beef going to Copntinental Europe.

They have forced the Irish Meat plants to reduce the price to them and have taken extra product and have used this to collapse the UK price as well. This is now a vicious circle as lower UK prices are forcing Irish prices lower.

The UK market want beef from carcass's that kill in the 280-380kgs region and idealy below 350Kgs. The factory's have filled there feedlots with animals that fill this spec and are now finishing these for when cattle prices are high( Dec-Jan) and (May-June). They can use these to back up supply and exert pressure on cattle prices at these times.

The beef from carcass's in excess of 400kgs is going to Continental europe this is no longer subsidised and factory's are trying ti supply as much beef as possible to the UK there by exerting pressure on Irish prices. Bulls are just the tip of the Iceberg as farmers with heavy cattle and cows are squeezed as well. Costs are climbing as some farmers retained cattle to wait for a price rise that has not came. Factory's have supply backed up and will use this to control prices into May if possible.

Marching in Dublin is a waste of time. The IFA need more imagination. They still have not complained to the Competition Authority about the way the Beef factory's use feedlots. Instead they are just trying to stage a photo opportunity for Thursday's farmers journal. No fear that the Framing Indo will have the photo's before it.

This idea that underfinished cattle are the issue is ludricous as factory's penalise these type of cattle. Any finisher sendind in under finished cattle is really losing. Yes we have an huge supply of dairy bred cattle but the real issue is that the over 400kg market for cattle is gone and as farmers now are being forced to finish and sell these earlier it will continue to depress the market.

Pharaoh1

onyerbikepat wrote: »

What I can't understand with the recent behaviour of the factories is surely more and more beef guys will now be even more likely to switch over to Dairying. And when they do make that switch, they will be unlikely to switch back.
You would think they would try and keep guys in the game. This might be the last straw for a lot of finishers.

we have had this game played for years now and despite all the threats there is still plenty of supply for the factories. I know that the dairy quota thing is new but will that have any real effect on overall volume. lots of finishers threatening to exit but for most its an empty threat and the factories know this.

theaceofspies

http://www.connachttribune.ie/farming-news-galway/item/1924-change-to-12-month-grazing-rule-in-das-could-slash-funding:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wonder what the IFA have to say about this proposal if it comes in?

visatorro

heard on the news an illegal meat plant found in south Armagh. wonder will there be any revelations? or someone held accountable. doubt it somehow

biddy2013

should the protests not be at meat factories? We where at our county ifa agm last week, ifa president was there. So bull beef was being labelled as prime heifer beef, surely people working in these factories knew this, you can be sure it wasnt happening only in Donegal, did people not learn from the horsemeat scandal, people buying beef expect to buy what they are paying for

Mulumpy

biddy2013 wrote: »

should the protests not be at meat factories? We where at our county ifa agm last week, ifa president was there. So bull beef was being labelled as prime heifer beef, surely people working in these factories knew this, you can be sure it wasnt happening only in Donegal, did people not learn from the horsemeat scandal, people buying beef expect to buy what they are paying for

Have to agree the dubs defo don't take kindly to having farmers decending on the capital. Anyway it will achieve nothing, might as well protest outside met eireann to bring us some good news for a change.

Farmer Pudsey

biddy2013 wrote: »

should the protests not be at meat factories? We where at our county ifa agm last week, ifa president was there. So bull beef was being labelled as prime heifer beef, surely people working in these factories knew this, you can be sure it wasnt happening only in Donegal, did people not learn from the horsemeat scandal, people buying beef expect to buy what they are paying for

I have for a while being pointing out that horse meat was only the tip of the issue with labeling. This is the reason that factory's are filling there feedlots with young heifers/bullocks for the two time of year that the pressure is most acute around Christmas and early summer. The production of bull beef will be extremely risky for finishers as factorys and supermarkets are afraid that that a testostrone test will indicate bull as opposed to heifer/bullock beef.

epfff

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have for a while being pointing out that horse meat was only the tip of the issue with labeling. This is the reason that factory's are filling there feedlots with young heifers/bullocks for the two time of year that the pressure is most acute around Christmas and early summer. The production of bull beef will be extremely risky for finishers as factorys and supermarkets are afraid that that a testostrone test will indicate bull as opposed to heifer/bullock beef.

I may sound stupid but
What is difference between bull beef and heifer/steer beef?(once it has fat cover)
Why can the rest of Europe feed/eat bull beef no problem?

Farmer Pudsey

epfff wrote: »

I may sound stupid but
What is difference between bull beef and heifer/steer beef?(once it has fat cover)
Why can the rest of Europe feed/eat bull beef no problem?

All it need is to be hung a bit longer. It is all perceptions. It is mainly down to Supermarket spec. It is just like the perception in Ireland that we kill all heifers. The AA scheme showed that if meat is hung for the right amount of time that eating quality and taste is not an issue. But that is not where we are we are dealing with supermarkets that have gone labeling mad.

The only issue that are real and I can see a reason for are carcass weight ( for packaging reasons) age (for to prevent too much storing of cattle that might lead to gristle) and fat cover (for presentation reasons).

There are issue's with bulls but these really relate to handling/slaughter. You do not want them to become stressed that may lead to a rise in there ph( this toughen's the meat and I think darkens it. However if loaded right and on arrival at the plant are send straight up the chute these issue are not serious.