Prime Time

davidlacey

Did anyone catch the report on IE on primetime on the back of worker rejecting the pay cuts today? Not much learned as always Barry kenny with usual blabber which is indicative with IE. Leo varadkar says the enterprise is due to be upgraded and cork trains under 2 hours is achievable. WRC was focused on as always with a figure of 8 passengers per train picked from the sky. Usual talk but no action. Whats everyone's view ?

end of the road

well Leo varadkar is the man who apparently wants to be irelands boris johnson so i wouldn't be bothering with anything he has to say to be honest, he seems to think that making all the rail network "high speed" and not stopping at all towns on route is the only way to make railways competitive with the roads, so a good quality product wouldn't attract people to the service leo? everybody knows roads got way more then the railway, yeah whatever, but if the railway got a huge investment program like it should have then maybe just maybe it would be "value for money" or something near it. well at least he realizes that ennis athenry is now built and has to be made to work, shame that thought never crossed the relevant peoples minds about rosslare waterford or the on the verge of closure lines that are limerick to waterford and limmerick ballybroaphy, but i suppose thats CIE and politics for you, did he say cork to dublin in 2 hours was achievable? i must admit i spent most of the time ranting at the TV so probably missed it, now off to bed i go

davidlacey

end of the road wrote: »

well Leo varadkar is the man who apparently wants to be irelands boris johnson so i wouldn't be bothering with anything he has to say to be honest, he seems to think that making all the rail network "high speed" and not stopping at all towns on route is the only way to make railways competitive with the roads, so a good quality product wouldn't attract people to the service leo? everybody knows roads got way more then the railway, yeah whatever, but if the railway got a huge investment program like it should have then maybe just maybe it would be "value for money" or something near it. well at least he realizes that ennis athenry is now built and has to be made to work, shame that thought never crossed the relevant peoples minds about rosslare waterford or the on the verge of closure lines that are limerick to waterford and limmerick ballybroaphy, but i suppose thats CIE and politics for you, did he say cork to dublin in 2 hours was achievable? i must admit i spent most of the time ranting at the TV so probably missed it, now off to bed i go

The same with me! IE are incapable of using their rolling stock to the best of their ability. sure yesterday morning time in bray there were two arrivals while I was waitng for a dart a six car set 22000 from drogheda and a 8 car commuter from dundalk, why 22000s are making their way into commuter relatively short distance routes is beyond me? Just look at heuston - newberidge/kildare/portloise! I also understand the programme was about commuters but no word on rail freight! If IE wants to continue why havent other revenue avenues such as rail freight been trialed! If the passengers are not there then they need to trybother things, people can say its ireland and its a small island but proactivity needs to reign but with a puppet like varadkar it looks like he has no clout to make any decisions against IE bigwigs

Copyerselveson

I would agree that the way forward for IE is to grow the freight business to get the revenue in. New ways of funding the freight side via partnerships should be part of the answer.

Grandeeod

A damning report and not very surprising. Wages up since recession hit? Diabolical carry on.

Kenny doing a lot of dick swinging with the usual if they cut subvention we cut services. Usual CIE/Government bitchfest heading to an all new level. The customer will be the only loser. And then a gem from Kenny, "the motorways eroded into our competitiveness." Incredible stuff. We all knew the motorways were coming while 100s of millions were going into IE. They missed the boat in how they invested the money. All shiney new trains for Government ministers to cut ribbons in front off. The most modern fleet in Europe. Probably one of the slowest too.

RUI telling us what we already know and offering no particular opinion. Very weak. You could be forgiven for thinking they are in IEs pocket these days.

Then Varadkar. A lot of innuendo in what he was saying. Words like not economic, hope, try etc. Comparisons with Luas, DB and BE were stupid, but this doesn't absolve IE from playing a huge role in its own problems. The wage cut is a good start. But long term the begging bowl mentality needs to change. Currently management and staff operate in a heavily protected semi state bubble.

Banjoxed

davidlacey wrote: »

Did anyone catch the report on IE on primetime on the back of worker rejecting the pay cuts today? Not much learned as always Barry kenny with usual blabber which is indicative with IE. Leo varadkar says the enterprise is due to be upgraded and cork trains under 2 hours is achievable. WRC was focused on as always with a figure of 8 passengers per train picked from the sky. Usual talk but no action. Whats everyone's view ?

Ridership figures pulled out of someone's ass, comical music played at certain points and talk of "nimble" buses. Yes it's one of upper middle class Ireland's favourite sports, "I drive a merc so why should the peons have trains?"

davidlacey

comparing trains to BE and DB especially I thought was rich as the previously mentioned roads have all just been upgraded during the boom which have helped journey times on especially BE routes and cost the company nothing, BE and DB have much fewer overheads than a rail network has, barry kenny saying roads eroded competitiveness is just giving in with no real fight! New rolling stock was bought instead of the real thing that needed to change which is journey times, congestion on connolly routes and a frequent intercity national service

corktina

Banjoxed wrote: »

Ridership figures pulled out of someone's ass, comical music played at certain points and talk of "nimble" buses. Yes it's one of upper middle class Ireland's favourite sports, "I drive a merc so why should the peons have trains?"

8 passengers per train comes from Irish Rails own statistics and the level is currently 9.5 apparently with the cheap fare offer.

Copyerselveson

I heard that "nimble buses" comment on the Prime Time report, as well as the 8 passengers per Limerick-Galway train comment. None were backed up with facts.

All we have heard on that report and discussions elsewhere on this board are just cranked-up anti-rail rhetoric in my opinion. IE are in a cash crisis however and if savings aren't obtained from the payroll then where are they going to come from?

davidlacey

Hindsight I know is a wonderful thing but the WRC should have been the Dublin Rail corridor, with focus on particularly maynooth electrification or extension and most definetly a much more frequent service on rossslre line as far as gorey at least.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

corktina

Copyerselveson wrote: »

I heard that "nimble buses" comment on the Prime Time report, as well as the 8 passengers per Limerick-Galway train comment. None were backed up with facts.

All we have heard on that report and discussions elsewhere on this board are just cranked-up anti-rail rhetoric in my opinion. IE are in a cash crisis however and if savings aren't obtained from the payroll then where are they going to come from?

I didn't hear it but the 8 passengers per train applies to usage of the Ennis to Athenry section

Banjoxed

corktina wrote: »

I didn't hear it but the 8 passengers per train applies to usage of the Ennis to Athenry section

Date and source? I like to see the original and context when something is asserted as fact.

Rootsblower

Stripping out social partnership wage increases ( which only kept up with inflation ) Irish Rail staff haven't had a company given pay rise since 2000. One time a train couldn't go anywhere without a train guard and a ticket checker now it's mostly driver only with the driver solely responsable for train safety.

IMHO from taking to rail staff on the ground the consensus seems to be that as the operational employee numbers have dwindled the managerial numbers have soared.One particularly irate driver told me that 129 managers were appointed in 2010 alone.

corktina

Banjoxed wrote: »

Date and source? I like to see the original and context when something is asserted as fact.

I already stated that it comes from Irish Rails own statistics,

davidlacey

corktina wrote: »

I already stated that it comes from Irish Rails own statistics,

It was a statistic prime time got from one of their own reports 1/2 years ago which indeed was true but it is not an accurate one now as it looks like rte just took it as it hasnt changed with no fact behind it... The WRC is a major issue but it seems to be a smokescreen for much larger ones!

Banjoxed

davidlacey wrote: »

It was a statistic prime time got from one of their own reports 1/2 years ago which indeed was true but it is not an accurate one now as it looks like rte just took it as it hasnt changed with no fact behind it... The WRC is a major issue but it seems to be a smokescreen for much larger ones!

Indeed. I prefer my porky pies to be Melton Mobrays rather than inaccurate representations of the facts.

yenom

Why didn't they bring up the sacked managers being brought back with pay increases or why management are still being paid bonuses of 20 grand?

green123

Rootsblower wrote: »

Stripping out social partnership wage increases ( which only kept up with inflation ) Irish Rail staff haven't had a company given pay rise since 2000.

so you are not happy getting just one pay rise every year ?

you think that you are entitled to more than one pay rise every year ?

you should be getting a social partnership pay rise and an increment and a pay rise from the company and maybe a bonus as well ?

sickening.

yet another example of our disgraceful public service / semi-state employees

end of the road

davidlacey wrote: »

The same with me! IE are incapable of using their rolling stock to the best of their ability. sure yesterday morning time in bray there were two arrivals while I was waitng for a dart a six car set 22000 from drogheda and a 8 car commuter from dundalk, why 22000s are making their way into commuter relatively short distance routes is beyond me? Just look at heuston - newberidge/kildare/portloise!

oh yes, while us peasantry on the rosslare line still have to travel in steerage on horid rickity 29 ks at times, no doubt the usual "fast running out of hueston" and "maintenence schedules" excuses will be trotted out, sorry irish rail, your problem not mine, sort it out.

davidlacey wrote: »

I also understand the programme was about commuters but no word on rail freight! If IE wants to continue why havent other revenue avenues such as rail freight been trialed! If the passengers are not there then they need to trybother things, people can say its ireland and its a small island but proactivity needs to reign but with a puppet like varadkar it looks like he has no clout to make any decisions against IE bigwigs

agree, trucks getting off the boat in rosslare and traveling to cork, a law could have easily been passed requiring that freight depots be built beside the railway and rail connected (after all not all freight in this country is door to door)

davidlacey wrote: »

a puppet like varadkar.
he has no clout to make any decisions against IE bigwigs

would you want him making such decisions though, his comments last night aren't convincing me that one day he won't snap and shut and rip up the lot of the railway (if he is still the minister for transport of course) i wouldn't trust him to clean a toilet to be honest never mind being in charge of our transport, i just don't trust him one bit.

end of the road

Grandeeod wrote: »

Wages up since recession hit? Diabolical

i must admit that shocked me, i wonder is much of that management and middle management though? just to put it out there

Grandeeod wrote: »

RUI telling us what we already know and offering no particular opinion. Very weak. You could be forgiven for thinking they are in IEs pocket these days.

brilliant, couldn't have said it better, we need platform 11 back, they got things done
also, the thing i worry about is as they cut cost the subsidy goes down more rather then maybe staying as is, the reason i'm worried about this is that i know eventually services will be cut rather then both government and IE realizing that the subsidy can only be cut before services go, dooms day stuff? i hope so but in this current situation one needs to be prepared for the worst

end of the road

davidlacey wrote: »

a much more frequent service on rossslre line

absolutely, theirs to much of a gap between 8 a.m. and the afternoon train, i've spoken to more people then i care to remember on this issue and service frequency and speed are the main things that come up along with the state of the trains when 29s are put on the line, but it won't happen, because graystones dart has damaged potential future growth on the line, because nobody thought to give a dam how extending the dart along a single track section used by a mainline would effect that mainline, i suppose though they hoped south of graystones would have been shut and ripped up in a couple of years after the extension, but who knows, oh well, i don't know anymore

end of the road

yenom wrote: »

Why didn't they bring up the sacked managers being brought back with pay increases or why management are still being paid bonuses of 20 grand?

because its better to try turn the public against the staff on the ground rather then dealing with management from what i can see

end of the road

green123 wrote: »

so you are not happy getting just one pay rise every year ?

you think that you are entitled to more than one pay rise every year ?

you should be getting a social partnership pay rise and an increment and a pay rise from the company and maybe a bonus as well ?

sickening.

yet another example of our disgraceful public service / semi-state employees

i don't remember him saying he should get a pay rise, he was suggesting that the idea they got massive pay rises over the years wasn't true, but nice try

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

i must admit that shocked me, i wonder is much of that management and middle management though? just to put it out there

IMO its right across the board. From senior management to the very bottom. The place needs a clean out and some kind of cost saving pay deal. Varadkar hinted at some brutal possibilities though.

I've said this before and I'll repeat it again. There is no getting away from this. Separate the infrastructure from services. Leave Irish Rail as a company that runs train services. All other infrastructure like track and signalling should be incorporated into a different company similar to the luas. Let the Government pickup the tab for that. Varadkar made an appallingly bad statement when he said that luas doesn't require a subsidy. It's operators aren't bogged down with big infrastructure.

LXFlyer

Grandeeod wrote: »

IMO its right across the board. From senior management to the very bottom. The place needs a clean out and some kind of cost saving pay deal. Varadkar hinted at some brutal possibilities though.

I've said this before and I'll repeat it again. There is no getting away from this. Separate the infrastructure from services. Leave Irish Rail as a company that runs train services. All other infrastructure like track and signalling should be incorporated into a different company similar to the luas. Let the Government pickup the tab for that. Varadkar made an appallingly bad statement when he said that luas doesn't require a subsidy. It's operators aren't bogged down with big infrastructure.

Iarnrod Eireann already has been split into two entities (albeit internally) for financial reporting purposes.

end of the road

and they will be fully split soon (as they have to be)

Grandeeod

lxflyer wrote: »

Iarnrod Eireann already has been split into two entities (albeit internally) for financial reporting purposes.

I know that. Its a fudge to comply with the EU and avoid opening the network to private concerns, its not the same as what I'm suggesting. The Government see it as one big black hole for money. Instead of all this petty you said, he said baloney that goes on between the CIE group in general and the Government, can any of them grab the bull by the horns and do something with the customer in mind. This problem with the railways has been ongoing since the nationalisation of CIE. Now either the mindset is still stuck in the past or the modern day management of IE is unfit to run anything.

end of the road

Grandeeod wrote: »

I know that. Its a fudge to comply with the EU and avoid opening the network to private concerns, its not the same as what I'm suggesting. The Government see it as one big black hole for money. Instead of all this petty you said, he said baloney that goes on between the CIE group in general and the Government, can any of them grab the bull by the horns and do something with the customer in mind. This problem with the railways has been ongoing since the nationalisation of CIE. Now either the mindset is still stuck in the past or the modern day management of IE is unfit to run anything.

i'd say both

Grandeeod

lxflyer wrote: »

Iarnrod Eireann already has been split into two entities (albeit internally) for financial reporting purposes.

Do these figures show us where the losses are occurring? If Irish rail only had to run trains, would it be making money?

Rootsblower

As a railwayman I can tell u from experience there are some good managers within the company who are trying to get things right but unfortunately the general culture within IE by management is " oh that can't be done because........(insert bull**** excuse here)"

That attitude towards both passengers and freight customers should be "What can we do for you"

A lot of the blame for this comes from the excessive health and safety regulations that have come in over the last few years coupled with a claims culture stemming from the general public you wouldn't believe what people have gotten compo from IE for.

You also wouldn't believe in the red tape involved in the running of the railway also which in itself supports a bloated management and support structure which eats up a large amount of the companies revenue each year.

Banjoxed

It would be interesting to see what were the sources used. I took notice when I heard the puff word "nimble" used about buses, when it would be interesting to see proper stats about how many transferred to buses at the closure of rail services. Certainly in Donegal and Northern Ireland where rail services ceased, it was private cars that took up the slack.

The dog that didn't bark in the report was rail freight.

Is it then such a stretch to presume that the report was briefed by vested interests in private buses and road freight that would benefit from the scrapping of the railways? The history of rail closures in Ireland would suggest so. Google Bock the Robber on Todd Andrews.

LXFlyer

Grandeeod wrote: »

Do these figures show us where the losses are occurring? If Irish rail only had to run trains, would it be making money?

Well we should be able to tell from the 2013 Annual Report - the change was made from the beginning of last year.

That should then give a far better picture of where the costs are, which to my mind is essential.

The minister conveniently ignored the costs of maintaining the roads that the buses operate on and the tracks that LUAS operate on while throwing his figures out, but what politician doesn't manipulate figures for his own benefit.

dowlingm

davidlacey wrote: »

why 22000s are making their way into commuter relatively short distance routes is beyond me?

You do remember that 22000s were purchased in high density config for commuter purposes? Whether you agree with that call, it is why they were bought.

Given the KRP I think Connolly side DMU ops should be all 22K now that the 4-car sets can handle Rosslare, with 29s operating on the KRP slow lines (and look to extend that trackage) and not sent to bloody Belfast a few times a week.

As for the commentary about Ennis-Athenry ridership, I thought we had all moved past the refusal to believe that that service is with current infrastructure unable to compete with the buses, especially 51X and after several articles and observations about being able to fire a cannon through the carriages without hitting a soul. Clearly we will have to go at this again.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

You do remember that 22000s were purchased in high density config for commuter purposes? Whether you agree with that call, it is why they were bought.

theirs rather few of that config i thought? + 22s are very common on short services out of connolly, i can't imagine all of them are of the commuter speck?

dowlingm wrote: »

Given the KRP I think Connolly side DMU ops should be all 22K now that the 4-car sets can handle Rosslare, with 29s operating on the KRP slow lines (and look to extend that trackage) and not sent to bloody Belfast a few times a week.

i agree, but it won't happen, as apparently fast running out of hueston and ridiculous maintenence schedule times are more important then people on the rosslare and sligo lines still putting up with 29 ks which should be doing the local routes out of hueston as the config would better suit those passengers as those routes are high density.

davidlacey

the rail freight issue has been done to death but I said it once and ill say it again if the passengers are not commuting by train more focus needs to be put on carrying freight instead of throwing a few random posters up. An attitude of IE going to businesses instead IE waiting for businesses coming to them needs to be the way. A whole needs to be bridged and rail freight won't solve the whole issue but alternative ideas need to be brought to the table, a little help from the government would help although we all saw varadkar said if any subvention was to come his way he would put it on buses who in my opinion do not need it! DB for example has the youngest fleet in europe

Copyerselveson

davidlacey wrote: »

the rail freight issue has been done to death but I said it once and ill say it again if the passengers are not commuting by train more focus needs to be put on carrying freight instead of throwing a few random posters up. An attitude of IE going to businesses instead IE waiting for businesses coming to them needs to be the way. A whole needs to be bridged and rail freight won't solve the whole issue but alternative ideas need to be brought to the table, a little help from the government would help although we all saw varadkar said if any subvention was to come his way he would put it on buses who in my opinion do not need it! DB for example has the youngest fleet in europe

I watched the report and interview again this evening. The section of the film dealing with the WRC had a sepia tone and whimsical music in the background. RTE were clearly trying to trivialise the WRC and at the same time it was obvious Claire Byrne was being prompted from the gallery to push the questionable 8 passengers per train line to Varadkar. At the same time Varadkar was talking that more bang for your buck nonsense regarding subvention of rail versus bus and Luas.

I think Varadkar's credibility as a future Taoiseach was badly dented by the interview. It was as if Tod Andrews had come back to life. Rural Ireland would clearly need more subsidy than the Pale and if the people of Ireland want the future of our country to be even more Dublin centred then Leo was certainly setting out his stall on that last night.

Interestingly Varadkar explicitly stated the Limerick-Galway line was not closing and it would be made work. That is not at all what was distorted elsewhere!

end of the road

davidlacey wrote: »

varadkar said if any subvention was to come his way he would put it on buses who in my opinion do not need it! DB for example has the youngest fleet in europe

exactly, in my opinion leo varadkar is a possible danger to the railways which is why hopefully he won't be there after the next election, we need to get over this idea of prioritizing busses over rail, instead we need to get them to complament each other and offer an integrated transport network that gives access to each other for all, leo in my opinion is using his position as transport minister to further his own agenda against the railway and his comments last night are what convinces me of this, those who are against rail need to except its there and need to realize that even if they don't like it its better off alive then dead, if they can come to that realization then thats a huge step as far as i'm concerned

end of the road

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Varadkar was talking that more bang for your buck nonsense regarding subvention of rail versus bus and Luas.

yeah, comparing irish rail to bus and luas, bang for your buck is fine if your wanting to get a good deal on a fleet of trains cars busses planes and so on but when it comes to public services then really its a nice thing to have but must only be a small part of spending, i'm not saying we just go wasting money but when talking about public services we need to be careful when coming out with terms such as "bang for your buck" as from what i can see it makes people fearful that their services will be cut and they will be left without.

Copyerselveson wrote: »

I think Varadkar's credibility as a future Taoiseach was badly dented by the interview.

he never had any credibility IMO

Copyerselveson wrote: »

t was as if Tod Andrews had come back to life.

oh god, the likes of Tod Andrews should have never been let loose on the railways, he only cared about destroying them for his own benefit, had he been left in any longer then probably cork and belfast would be the only railways to survive, what was needed was a real railway man who even if he had to suspend services or close lines he would have either made sure the routes and infrastructure were protected or found a use for them that they could be reinstated if ever needed.

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Rural Ireland would clearly need more subsidy than the Pale and if the people of Ireland want the future of our country to be even more Dublin centred then Leo was certainly setting out his stall on that last night.

exactly, while dublin is the capital and will get more money spent people need to realize their is life outside dublin, sure we can talk about the one off housing and i agree in hindsight such a policy being allowed was a bad idea but frankly such houses are there now and we have to provide for them (pay for your mistakes if you will)

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Interestingly Varadkar explicitly stated the Limerick-Galway line was not closing and it would be made work. That is not at all what was distorted elsewhere!

i agree with him on that, the rail network we have now has to be made work, from what i can see closures solved nothing before and will solve nothing again apart from putting more people on to the roads not using busses but cars, sure small little lines could have gone if needed be but large swades of rail network being ripped out for various reasons (sectarian in the case of the north IMO) should have been a no no, or at least should have been route protected.

Copyerselveson

End of the road, I agree.

You know, the more I think about this, I've come to the conclusion that the piece was really a puff piece for Varadkar. Varadkar himself comes out with the view that bus subsidy gives him "more bang for the buck" and RTE trot out tame economist Edgar Morgenroth - who has worked closely with Colm "Bord Snip Nua" McCarthy - who in turn utterly opposed the DART in the 80s - and RTE tell Claire Byrne to ram home the dubious 8 passengers per train stat for the WRC.

So in a broadcast that Lord Haw Haw himself would be envious of, we get a neoliberal economist opposed to rural railways presented as a neutral "expert", a sepia toned film of a train with tinkly music designed to provoke scorn from the viewer when rural railways are mentioned and a tame interviewer who was purely there to feed the minister his lines.

At some point are RTE going to replace the map of Ireland with that medieval-era map of the Pale with the message "Here be savages" outside the boundaries? :rolleyes:

davidlacey

It was typical RTE nonsense which we are paying a licence fee for! a very one sided argument with a spokesman for IE who is a "muppet" who really did no favours for backing IE up...

Grandeeod

Calm down folks! The Primetime piece was well balanced and Varadkar was drilled on the unfair comparisons that he made. Barry Kennys rediculous points went unchalleged! In relation to the WRC , Varadkar was right. He called it as it was. A political decision, devoid of any economic evaluation.

I can only advise people to try and control their railway emotions. I love railways, but that love can be overshadowed by a poor railway operator and a Government stuck in a railway mentality (due to recession) akin to the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s.

Whats required is what was required during the period of unprecedented investment. VISION! We didn't get that, because Dick Fearn came for the pension. What's left is a mess.

Copyerselveson

Copyerselveson

Grandeeod wrote: »

Whats required is what was required during the period of unprecedented investment. VISION! We didn't get that, because Dick Fearn came for the pension. What's left is a mess.

This bit I do agree with. The boom money should have been spent on the infrastructure. Get the line speeds up and extend passing loops or better still double more lines.

davidlacey

Copyerselveson wrote: »

This bit I do agree with. The boom money should have been spent on the infrastructure. Get the line speeds up and extend passing loops or better still double more lines.

waterford, galway, sligo spring to mind

monument

end of the road wrote: »

well Leo varadkar is the man who apparently wants to be irelands boris johnson so i wouldn't be bothering with anything he has to say to be honest...

He wants to emulate one of the most powerful elected politicians in the world (besides ministers and prime ministers)?

VWD8

That interview with Leo Varadkar was disgraceful to be honest. Staff in Irish Rail have got no pay increase in many years, contrary to want the minister indicated. The reason average pay seems to be higher is that there has been a massive increase in managers in recent years.

It is very unfair to criticise staff for not rejecting the latest deal. The main reason it was widely rejected was because, on many services, there are no fares being collected and all the managers being appointed! Ticket checkers are almost gone and at many stations at off peak times, there is nobody to sell tickets! It is not fare evasion, people who want to buy tickets cannot! The situation is slowly improving with ticket machines though. A huge amount of revenue has still gone out the window in recent years.

Going back to the minister, he was very anti rail. The comparison of the subsidies to the bus companies was laughable, a child would know that is comparing apples to oranges! While there is problems in the company as I said above, he should be sorting them out and not mouthing off on primetime.

There is also a misconception about the money invested in the railway. The hundereds of millions that was spent was on relaying track, ie. just keeping it safe, not improving the network as such. At the same time billions were spent building new roads. The intercity services have been hammered by the motorways and new bus services and together with the recession, passenger numbers fell off a cliff.

Everytime IE tries to get its finances in order then it is hit with another cut in subvention, so it is impossible to get back out of that hole. The Free Travel is also awfully underfunded, overgenerous and open to fraud.

So basically, staff would have no problems in giving something if the company was in genuine financial difficulty. Not when the company is badly run and the government's attitude is wrong. There are some great managers and staff in the company and in fairness, the new CEO is getting very tough on revenue.

Banjoxed

VWD8 wrote: »

That interview with Leo Varadkar was disgraceful to be honest. Staff in Irish Rail have got no pay increase in many years, contrary to want the minister indicated. The reason average pay seems to be higher is that there has been a massive increase in managers in recent years.

It is very unfair to criticise staff for not rejecting the latest deal. The main reason it was widely rejected was because, on many services, there are no fares being collected and all the managers being appointed! Ticket checkers are almost gone and at many stations at off peak times, there is nobody to sell tickets! It is not fare evasion, people who want to buy tickets cannot! The situation is slowly improving with ticket machines though. A huge amount of revenue has still gone out the window in recent years.

Going back to the minister, he was very anti rail. The comparison of the subsidies to the bus companies was laughable, a child would know that is comparing apples to oranges! While there is problems in the company as I said above, he should be sorting them out and not mouthing off on primetime.

There is also a misconception about the money invested in the railway. The hundereds of millions that was spent was on relaying track, ie. just keeping it safe, not improving the network as such. At the same time billions were spent building new roads. The intercity services have been hammered by the motorways and new bus services and together with the recession, passenger numbers fell off a cliff.

Everytime IE tries to get its finances in order then it is hit with another cut in subvention, so it is impossible to get back out of that hole. The Free Travel is also awfully underfunded, overgenerous and open to fraud.

So basically, staff would have no problems in giving something if the company was in genuine financial difficulty. Not when the company is badly run and the government's attitude is wrong. There are some great managers and staff in the company and in fairness, the new CEO is getting very tough on revenue.

Well it wouldn't be the first time a manipulated statistic treated as fact was used to push an agenda in this country.

Grandeeod

Holy ****, the IE poor mouth mentality is back and loud and clear in its blame it on the Government ****e. There are two of you in it! Can't you see this? Its always been this way.