No witty title would do this justice.

miss no stars

The whole thing from start to finish is only twelve and a half minutes, but honestly, it feels much, much longer. I can only imagine how long it felt for the people involved...

Can't seem to get this to embed

http://vimeo.com/87355387

HeidiHeidi

:eek::eek::eek:

God Almighty! Where on earth was that?

Couple of things spring to mind....

Was there an unmerciful current? Boat looked like it was stopped a few times only to take off and shoot forward at the start. Didn't look THAT windy (although there was spray whipping off the waves at the end)

I would have thought that the dumpees should have stuck together as much as possible (easy to say, I know). The crew of Rambler spring to mind - they'd tethered themselves together.

Did four (or more?) not fall overboard? Only two shown picked up.... Hope the others got out OK.....

Could the "rescue boat" not have managed to tow them into less rough/swelly water somehow? Looked a bit lethal with occasional rollers rolling in.

Was there even a horseshoe buoy thrown in from the yacht? Or anything at all? I thought at one stage they'd gone in, tied up and gone for a pint - nice of them to come back out and make sure their mates were picked up ok :eek: (on the subject of a buoy, I'm in no position to throw stones (or buoys for that matter) - we dumped a crew member overboard while racing, and once we'd retrieved her we had to go around picking up all the buoys from other boats to get them back to their owners.... the only boat in the vicinity who didn't throw a buoy was us in all the faff of pointing and watching and dropping sails and starting outboards and disentangling ourselves from the boat we'd crashed into it never made it off the transom :eek:)

Anyway, hope all were ok in that episode... I'd love to hear more about the background to it.

Scary stuff.

ETA - I've figured out where it was.... remind me never to go there!!!

fergal.b

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

God Almighty! Where on earth was that?

Couple of things spring to mind....

Was there an unmerciful current? Boat looked like it was stopped a few times only to take off and shoot forward at the start. Didn't look THAT windy (although there was spray whipping off the waves at the end)

I would have thought that the dumpees should have stuck together as much as possible (easy to say, I know). The crew of Rambler spring to mind - they'd tethered themselves together.

Did four (or more?) not fall overboard? Only two shown picked up.... Hope the others got out OK.....

Could the "rescue boat" not have managed to tow them into less rough/swelly water somehow? Looked a bit lethal with occasional rollers rolling in.

Was there even a horseshoe buoy thrown in from the yacht? Or anything at all? I thought at one stage they'd gone in, tied up and gone for a pint - nice of them to come back out and make sure their mates were picked up ok :eek: (on the subject of a buoy, I'm in no position to throw stones (or buoys for that matter) - we dumped a crew member overboard while racing, and once we'd retrieved her we had to go around picking up all the buoys from other boats to get them back to their owners.... the only boat in the vicinity who didn't throw a buoy was us in all the faff of pointing and watching and dropping sails and starting outboards and disentangling ourselves from the boat we'd crashed into it never made it off the transom :eek:)

Anyway, hope all were ok in that episode... I'd love to hear more about the background to it.

Scary stuff.

ETA - I've figured out where it was.... remind me never to go there!!!

Lots of reeding on it here http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?388524-Bavaria-capsizes-in-Zumaya-(-Country-Vasque-Spain-)

miss no stars

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

God Almighty! Where on earth was that?

Unfortunately I haven't a clue, it was doing the rounds in an email with no other info attached. Wish I knew tho!

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Couple of things spring to mind....

Was there an unmerciful current? Boat looked like it was stopped a few times only to take off and shoot forward at the start. Didn't look THAT windy (although there was spray whipping off the waves at the end)

Yeah it's odd. The only thing I can think of is that it looks like they were trying to time their entry with the wave sets. On throttle, off throttle, feck it go around..? Plus, to me their angle to the waves looked odd a few times. Looked a little bit ehh... fast... to put it delicately... coming off a couple of the waves.

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I would have thought that the dumpees should have stuck together as much as possible (easy to say, I know). The crew of Rambler spring to mind - they'd tethered themselves together.

Yeah this surprised me. Actually, with reference to the dumpees, before they even got into the harbour I was looking at the lads/ladies sitting on the bow and high on the sides thinking wtf... I'd be tethered on and in the bloody cockpit. Kinda possible that with lifejackets popped they couldn't move properly in the swell? I dunno, I was waiting to see the ring form as well :-/

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Did four (or more?) not fall overboard? Only two shown picked up.... Hope the others got out OK.....

Yeah I thought four got picked up, 2 in the first run and then 2 (slowly) in the second run. Well the last guy actually took ages to be picked up.

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Could the "rescue boat" not have managed to tow them into less rough/swelly water somehow? Looked a bit lethal with occasional rollers rolling in.

Was there even a horseshoe buoy thrown in from the yacht? Or anything at all? I thought at one stage they'd gone in, tied up and gone for a pint - nice of them to come back out and make sure their mates were picked up ok :eek: (on the subject of a buoy, I'm in no position to throw stones (or buoys for that matter) - we dumped a crew member overboard while racing, and once we'd retrieved her we had to go around picking up all the buoys from other boats to get them back to their owners.... the only boat in the vicinity who didn't throw a buoy was us in all the faff of pointing and watching and dropping sails and starting outboards and disentangling ourselves from the boat we'd crashed into it never made it off the transom :eek:)

Anyway, hope all were ok in that episode... I'd love to hear more about the background to it.

Scary stuff.

Hehe, at least you went back for your crew. They don't always. I thought I saw someone fumbling with a horseshoe on the yacht but they went out of throwing range quite quickly.

All a bit mad. The only way I could justify their going in is they may have had injured crew on board? Waited on another boat to arrive and then brought the injured crew they had on board to shore?

But yeah, scary. It must have been an eternity in the water gradually being swept towards rocks. There was a video of a yacht going arse over head into Arklow (? I think?) a few years back...

HeidiHeidi

Reading the comments in the forum that Fergal posted is interesting....

Some of my comments were unwarranted.

The dumpees were washed towards another sea wall and a shelving beach - no way could the yacht have gone there even if they wanted to.

The skipper was washed over, so who knows how (in)experienced the crew were, the fact that they got the yacht back under control and into safe water was good in itself.

Apparently there was a horseshoe buoy in the water - obviously I need to go to Specsavers

Someone posted an aerial view of the harbour/marina entrance - complete NIGHTMARE, I'd be finding another home for my boat!!!

I still stand by my point that someone - the little motorboat probably - should have thrown a line, or something, and tried to tow them in out of the swell.

Apparently all four were rescued and were none the worse for their adventure.

And it wasn't the same yacht that came back out and stood off - so I still suspect they went in, tied up, and went for a pint :D

ETA - and they did buddy up, up to a point - apparently two went off without LJs, two with, so they paired up - so looked like two in the water but was actually two pairs.

miss no stars

Jesus, I'm a strong swimmer but I wouldn't like to be fully togged out and in swell like that without a lifejacket.

Lifejackets and harnesses, folks, they're there for a reason...

HeidiHeidi

miss no stars wrote: »

Jesus, I'm a strong swimmer but I wouldn't like to be fully togged out and in swell like that without a lifejacket.

Lifejackets and harnesses, folks, they're there for a reason...

Interesting debate also in the forum about the benefits or otherwise of harnesses and being in or out of the cockpit... seemingly the four who went over were from the cockpit, the two on the foredeck stayed on board. I wouldn't have bet money on that beforehand!

No LJs was unforgiveable though.

miss no stars

wow, you wouldn't expect that at all. Probably less to hang on to. Suppose the thing with the harnesses is, if you're tethered on to a strong point you're probably not gonna end up out of reach of the boat.

I actually can't get over the idea that in that swell trying to get into that particular harbour people would decide to forego the lifejacket.

HeidiHeidi

Thankfully I've never experienced it, and I'm certainly open to correction..... but my instinct would tell me I'd be better off being thrown clear of the boat rather than dragged down with it, and then hoiked back up with it, hanging on the end of a harness.

Now that's assuming a lot of things - lifejacket on and working, and close to shore (as in this case) chief among them.

But what in the name of God possessed them to go shooting that harbour entrance without LJs on

pedroeibar1

It is a great example of who a poor decision in seamanship can spiral to a really bad outcome.
First bad decision was to try to enter in that swell – the boat was surfing on some of the waves (see spray from bow).
Second bad decision was to go back for a ‘second attempt’ after returning on seeing the cresting wave.
Third bad decision was not to insist on life jackets, particularly when there was time to don them before attempt no.2 (even if one does not accept that they should have been worn from the outset).
Fourth bad decision was to have three people unnecessarily outside the cockpit (one on the coach, two actually sprawled on the foredeck, one resting on the forestay). Why was the spinnaker pole attached to the mast and blocking the foredeck? Where was the genny sheet?
Fifth bad decision was not to realise with that type of swell the steerageway will be affected by the waterflow on the rudder.
Sixth bad decision was not to realise that nos. 4 and 5 above when combined can be deadly, assisting the bow to dig in and the stern to pivot, velocity of which flung the occupants out.
Seventh bad decision was not to throw a lifebuoy – an attempt was considered but it looks as if it had a rope tangled attached.

I could go on.....the yacht helmsman (post knock-down) bottled it, showed extremely poor decision-making and was grossly negligent in his failure to attempt a rescue.

HeidiHeidi

Pedro, I think that's a bit unfair given that the actual skipper went over, and the people in the water were very close to a sea wall and a shelving beach and were probably in very shallow (or shallowing) water.

http://www.latitudeimage.com/media/c95245ce-be1b-11e0-8a28-914ed231aad0-zumaia-harbour

But I'd certainly agree that decisions made before the knockdown (or not made) were highly dubious.

pedroeibar1

Thanks for that link Heidi, not a port of call in that swell! I see where you are coming from with the 'unfair' comment, but the simple fact of the matter was that people were in the water and the onboard crew deserted them. Perhaps there was an engine scare after the knockdown, air in the fuelpipe, we don't know at this remove. However, there were things that could have been done, lifebelts or warps thrown, etc. Inexperience is no excuse; when I crewed I would not sail with a skipper that did not put crew on the helm. Crew need helm experience, that is only one reason for crew races. After all, the skipper might end up in the drink and need rescuing, as the guy in Zumaia can testify.

Stheno

Just saw this now, scary stuff.

Couple of observations, the bowman and (for want of a better term) mastman at the front had that couple of seconds extra to react you can see them both reaching for the forestay/mast, then as the boat rights itself they both pelt back to the cockpit to help.

The mastman (red jacket) clings onto the mast, but even as the boat broaches (is that the right term?) the bowman looks to be clipped on, or has super human balance as they are still moving about and standing up and moving around the forestay?

And what is the yellow tube on the foredeck after they broach?

bofster

The following from a Spanish Blog with translation :
Espectacular vuelco de un velero en Zumaia!!
La entrada y salida de barcos del puerto de Zumaia ha sido siempre muy complicada y peligrosa, ya que la orientación de la barra o malecón con respecto a la dirección de las olas no ha sido nunca la adecuada, por lo cual ha habido innumerables accidentes, la mayoría sin consecuencias trágicas...
Spectacular overturning of Sailboat in Zumaia ( Basque Country )
The entrance & exit of boats at the port of Zumaya has always been complicated and dangerous, given that the orientation of the bar and the pier with respect to the direction of the waves has never been the ideal (proper), for which (reason) there has been many accidents, the majority without serious consequences.

Seguir leyendo: continue reading the following:

http://www.oficiostradicionales.net/es/mar/puerto/accidentes.asp

Esta vez ha sido un Bavaria 38...
This times it was a Bavaria 38...
"Había mar de fondo pero nada del otro mundo. Tuvimos regata y al entrar.... Verdadera mala suerte, porque es una ola excepcional. En fin, de los 4 que cayeron dos llegaban chaleco, no asi los otros entre los que estaba el patrón. Hablamos con ellos cuando llegaron al pantalan, estaban tranquilos y no pasaron miedo en ningún momento. Los dos que no tenían chaleco se agarraron a los que tenían y como no podían nadar se tumbaron a la "plancha" mientras llegaba la ayuda. Un susto con una ola inesperada..."
"There was a big sea running, but nothing out of this world (extraordinary) We had been racing....but on entering(the port)....really bad luck, because this was an exceptional wave. Finally, of the 4 who fell (into the sea), two were wearing life jackets, but not so the others among whom was the skipper. We spoke with them when they arrived at the pontoon , they were calm and were not afraid at any moment. The two who did not have life jackets held on to those who did have and as they could not swim they fell on the "grill".(idiom) ( out of the frying pan and into the fire) while help arrived. A fright from an unexpected wave...."

(Declaraciones de un patrón que había entrado un rato antes)
(Statement of a Skipper who had entered (the harbour) a while earlier)