Dogs and the law

Sadderday

Hi all,

dont know where to post this.

Walk a small dog every evening and once or so a week I cross paths with a man that has at least 10 dogs not on leads and there are a few scary rotweilers in the bunch that approach us. we dont see them in the dark until they are fairly close and have to pick our little dog up and basically be prepared to jump into the river incase one attacks as we assume in a pack they will attack if one were to kick off.

I'm becoming nervous for not just our safety but others that may be on the same stretch even though its unlikely this time of year.

Anyone know what to expect from a garda if we were to mention this? really dont want to give our details to them we live in a small place.

Thanks

Grumpypants

Sadderday wrote: »

Hi all,

dont know where to post this.

Walk a small dog every evening and once or so a week I cross paths with a man that has at least 10 dogs not on leads and there are a few scary rotweilers in the bunch that approach us. we dont see them in the dark until they are fairly close and have to pick our little dog up and basically be prepared to jump into the river incase one attacks as we assume in a pack they will attack if one were to kick off.

I'm becoming nervous for not just our safety but others that may be on the same stretch even though its unlikely this time of year.

Anyone know what to expect from a garda if we were to mention this? really dont want to give our details to them we live in a small place.

Thanks

Dogs should be under control at all times so should be on a lead. But they will not attack because they are in a group. If anything they are less likely to feel threatened and are just being curious because they see you picking up a dog in a panic and want to see what is going on.

Rottweilers are not danergous. You are more likely to get bitten by your own dog than them.

Sadderday

Grumpypants wrote: »

Dogs should be under control at all times so should be on a lead. But they will not attack because they are in a group. If anything they are less likely to feel threatened and are just being curious because they see you picking up a dog in a panic and want to see what is going on.

Rottweilers are not danergous. You are mote likely to get bitten by your own dog than them.

Thank you for the response but this is not comforting when your circled by a number of dogs that are barking and growling. if one were to attack and you were to try self defense I am sure the other dogs would be involved.

So far nothing has happened and the dogs are probably curious... but if a family decide to stroll with young children and come across these dogs there realistically could be serious harm done. I am a dog lover... I can see something serious going down here though.

celica00

Its kinda dangerous to pick up your dog then living him on the ground or simply walk away.

Dogs dont understand why you pick up the dog and compared with you being nervous, they can get nervous too and might growl just to protect themselves.

There is no fault in the dogs, approach the owner and ask how they are (dogs) or as I said, simply walk away in a big circle etc.

whippet

Grumpypants wrote: »

Dogs should be under control at all times so should be on a lead.

this is something that I find interesting. My interpretation of control does not mean that the dog needs to be on a leash.

I would consider my dog to be under my control off leash in most conditions, he will respond to my commands and return to me on demand.

I can't see any reference to the requirement for a leash in the Control of Dogs Act 1996 and the subsequent 1992 amendment.

bardcom

So nothing has happened to date other than you being scared of a load of dogs and your imagination running wild with visions of you being torn limb from limb?

It's an easy picture to paint in your mind and it can take hold easily.

It sounds like a dog walker to me with that amount of dogs.

Regardless, if it is 10 dogs, I would say you're right to be concerned. That's too many dogs off leash to exercise proper control for anyone. Don't think the guards will help much tho. Maybe have a word with the dog walker? Are *any* of the dogs on leads?

Sadderday

I know we all may have different opinion of dogs, controls and safety but this thread is now surprisinging to me.

We know dogs respond to their master for the most part but if a person is walking over ten dogs - different breeds - with no leads or muzzles surely this has to be dangerous?

I know 9/10 times everything will be fine by if a passer by is jogging past or whatever but in this case...

we park at the gate and walk. guy pulls up in a jeep and lets all his dogs out and begins his walk not knowing what to expect himself when he gets so far. He cannot 'control' all ten (ish) dogs (control to me meaning stop all these dogs from approaching a person, jumping on a person, approach another persons dog or child)

These dogs may be all growl, protecting the pack, protecting their master but if our dog or someone elses dog has a bark (like dogs do) and one of the rotweilers (huge ones) something could kick off. This man carries a plank of some kind obviously incase he needs to intervene or if his dogs do not react accordingly to his call when someone is approaching.. so he knows himself that a dog or person could be savaged, we see it on the news all the time.. children being badly bitten by a dog and being scarred for life... they say you need to trust your dog.. how this man can trust his many dogs is beyond me. Its irresponsible to have so many out together - whatever you may believe having more than one dog... your dealing with a pack and it has to be harder to manage.

I was just wondering if the police could suggest this man have muzzles on the dogs.

bardcom

Nah, you're right. If it's 10 dogs, he has next-to-zero control, and should anything happen, the dogs will act with a pack instinct.

And with no leads and no muzzles, that is an unsafe environment.

Personally, I'd talk to the walker first though, and failing that, report it to the guards. And take a video with my phone if possible.

Sadderday

bardcom wrote: »

So nothing has happened to date other than you being scared of a load of dogs and your imagination running wild with visions of you being torn limb from limb?

It's an easy picture to paint in your mind and it can take hold easily.

It sounds like a dog walker to me with that amount of dogs.

Refardless, if it is 10 dogs, I would say you're right to be concerned. That's too many dogs off leash to exercise proper control for anyone. Don't think the guards will help much tho. Maybe have a word with the dog walker? Are any of th dogs on leads?

you are right - nothing has happened... but I am concerned for the safety of anyone else that happens to be passing this man by on their travels. Last night, it was a woman walking the dogs. Its either the male or female thats the master cannot be both and I believe she struggled to get past us, the dogs kept following us as we tried to get by, she was screaming loudly and they were fiercely growling.

I think its wonderful to have a dog and they are the best protection you could have but this is unreal stuff.

its a chance you take believing that dogs will never do you harm. They are animals after all. One is one, ten is ten.

SoapMcTavish

S.I. No. 442/1998 - Control of Dogs Regulations, 1998



Leashing and Muzzling

5. (1) This article shall apply to every:—


(a) American Pit Bull Terrier,


(b) Bull Mastiff,


(c) Doberman Pinscher,


(d) English Bull Terrier,


(e) German Shepherd (Alsatian),


(f) Japanese Akita,


(g) Japanese Tosa,


(h) Rhodesian Ridgeback,


(i) Rottweiler,


(j) Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and


to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog), and to every other strain or cross of every breed or type of dog described in this article.


(2) A person shall not permit a dog to which this article applies to be in a public place unless such dog is:—


(i) securely muzzled; and


(ii) being led by a sufficiently strong chain or leash, not exceeding two metres in length, by a person over the age of sixteen years who is capable of controlling the said dog.

andreac

Can i ask what is scary about the Rottweilers? Have they done something in particular to deem them scary?

Sadderday

Trying to avoid having a convo with the owner... as I said very small place we live in... stuff gets around ya know but might have to.

To be honest it might be a case of sit in the car and wait for him - you really cant stop to talk when you meet walking heart thumping and all you have to get outta there. We stay calm, stay steady, inch by and so far its ok... a person who would be nervous of dogs may not react this way and startle the dogs into protection mode.

andreac

Have you actually spoken to the people involved and asked them to keep them on a lead?

SoapMcTavish

andreac wrote: »

Can i ask what is scary about the Rottweilers? Have they done something in particular to deem them scary?

And are they Muzzled and on a lead as required by law ?

celica00

If it effects you so much (which is never good around your own or other dogs), try to ask him friendly or if he could walk around you because your dog is scarred or something.
Do it in a nice and friendly way without accusing him and it might works out fine

Sadderday

andreac wrote: »

Can i ask what is scary about the Rottweilers? Have they done something in particular to deem them scary?

I'm sure they make lovely pets but they are known to be aggressive and intimidating animals. dont know the history but there must be some sense in it... so although there were over ten dogs these were the scariest of all that approached.

andreac

Sadderday wrote: »

I'm sure they make lovely pets but they are known to be aggressive and intimidating animals. dont know the history but there must be some sense in it... so although there were over ten dogs these were the scariest of all that approached.

Sorry but that's incorrect. I own 3 of them. They are not known to be aggressive and intimidating.
Just because you find them intimidating doesn't mean they are. They are just another breed of dog.

Sadderday

andreac wrote: »

Have you actually spoken to the people involved and asked them to keep them on a lead?

I really don't fancy having to do this. I know everyone feels entitled to walk their dog and we take our dog off his lead... just popping it back on as anyone approaches. I know this may sound silly... but having so many dogs on leads is near impossible too, you wouldnt have the strenght.. if the dogs wanted to pull you they will, theres too many there...

so realisitically we would have to ask him to muzzle the rotweilers... the other breeds were mostly barkers, labs and springers and a few jack russells etc to be honest not too worried about them being muzzled maybe feel more comfortable with them because they are smaller dogs and I feel more confident about that to be very honest...

SoapMcTavish

What do you mean ask him to muzzle them ?

He's required BY LAW to muzzle them ....

S.I. No. 442/1998 - Control of Dogs Regulations, 1998

"
(2) A person shall not permit a dog to which this article applies to be in a public place unless such dog is:—


(i) securely muzzled; and


(ii) being led by a sufficiently strong chain or leash, not exceeding two metres in length, by a person over the age of sixteen years who is capable of controlling the said dog.

Leashing and Muzzling "


5. (1) This article shall apply to every:—


(a) American Pit Bull Terrier,


(b) Bull Mastiff,


(c) Doberman Pinscher,


(d) English Bull Terrier,


(e) German Shepherd (Alsatian),


(f) Japanese Akita,


(g) Japanese Tosa,


(h) Rhodesian Ridgeback,


(i) Rottweiler,


(j) Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and


to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog), and to every other strain or cross of every breed or type of dog described in this article.


(2) A person shall not permit a dog to which this article applies to be in a public place unless such dog is:—


(i) securely muzzled; and


(ii) being led by a sufficiently strong chain or leash, not exceeding two metres in length, by a person over the age of sixteen years who is capable of controlling the said dog.

Sadderday

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but that's incorrect. I own 3 of them. They are not known to be aggressive and intimidating.
Just because you find them intimidating doesn't mean they are. They are just another breed of dog.

It's not my opinion... if it's law that this particular breed along with a few others should be muzzled but a labrador doesn't there must be some truth in the nature. C'mon you need to own your dog responsibly you cant deny what this breed is known for.

andreac

Yes, by law Rotties are supposed to be on lead in public and muzzled, so if you really have an issue with it then you need to contact your local dog warden.
Although, seeing as nothing has actually happened as such to warrant a report then i really dont see the big deal. Your fear is exactly that, your fear, no one elses.

The dogs havent done anything really bar be dogs on their walks. Maybe try explaining to the person if they could put the dogs on leads while they pass you.

sillysmiles

Sadderday wrote: »

I really don't fancy having to do this.

Really? Have you ever had any conversation with this person? Exchanged hellos? Anything?
To me, it seems odd/wrong to go to the guards and authorities, without have actually speaking to the person.

andreac

Sadderday wrote: »

It's not my opinion... if it's law that this particular breed along with a few others should be muzzled but a labrador doesn't there must be some truth in the nature. C'mon you need to own your dog responsibly you cant deny what this breed is known for.

Im not going to even get into this debate as you actually have no clue regarding these breeds.
Look up breed specific legislation and you will find all the info you need regarding these laws.

Theres a whole issue and petition at the moment trying to get rid of this legislation which im involved in and there was an article in the Irish Times too which i was part of with my dogs.

Oh btw, Rotties were actually originally bred for herding

ganmo

Rottweilers are extremely loyal, this can lead to them being aggressive if they feel their master is being threatened. I know 2 Rotties, one is a joy the other the owners don't let anyone go near because of they're fondness of biting.

I think there is some legislation about dog walkers(people walking more than x number of dogs)

Sadderday

He says the odd hi hello go past me there while hes holding as many dogs as he can by the collar... calling the other dogs frantically.

I will take your advice and tell him I think something is going to kick off at some stage. there is only one way in and one way out of this park so I will wait for him if I see his car this evening I will also try get a photo just to show the amount of dogs we are talking about.

Sadderday

andreac wrote: »

Im not going to even get into this debate as you actually have no clue regarding these breeds.
Look up breed specific legislation and you will find all the info you need regarding these laws.

Theres a whole issue and petition at the moment trying to get rid of this legislation which im involved in and there was an article in the Irish Times too which i was part of with my dogs.

Oh btw, Rotties were actually originally bred for herding

I don't need to have a clue, they should be on a muzzle cos they could take me out with one clamp of their jaws and this boke can't handle having three in his pack of dogs.

I like all dogs but I feel that there is a danger in the situation regardless of whether its a load of blokes with hoods up doing drugs down there or rotweilers without muzzles surely my concern is warranted if it could possibly affect the general public.

andreac

ganmo wrote: »

Rottweilers are extremely loyal, this can lead to them being aggressive if they feel their master is being threatened. I know 2 Rotties, one is a joy the other the owners don't let anyone go near because of they're fondness of biting.

I think there is some legislation about dog walkers(people walking more than x number of dogs)

This can be said for any dog. Rotties are not known for aggression, far from it actually.

andreac

Sadderday wrote: »

I don't need to have a clue, they should be on a muzzle cos they could take me out with one clamp of their jaws and this boke can't handle having three in his pack of dogs.

I like all dogs but I feel that there is a danger in the situation regardless of whether its a load of blokes with hoods up doing drugs down there or rotweilers without muzzles surely my concern is warranted if it could possibly affect the general public.

If that's the case then report the dogs to the warden for non wearing of muzzles and not being on a lead then, if thats what you feel you need to do.

sillysmiles

Sadderday wrote: »

I will take your advice and tell him I think something is going to kick off at some stage.

Instead of starting it with a criticism, (which would make anyone disinclined to be accommodating), perhaps just try saying to him that it makes you feel uncomfortable.
The result is the same but without him feeling like you are giving out, he feels like he is helping you.

Grumpypants

whippet wrote: »

this is something that I find interesting. My interpretation of control does not mean that the dog needs to be on a leash.

I would consider my dog to be under my control off leash in most conditions, he will respond to my commands and return to me on demand.

I can't see any reference to the requirement for a leash in the Control of Dogs Act 1996 and the subsequent 1992 amendment.

In the case above they don't appear to be under control as they are free to run up to this person barking and causing distress. So they should be on a lead. Dogs that can walk at heal would be considered under control. The thing is this is a very small % of dogs in Ireland. People think because they call their dog and it comes back that they are under control, they are not.

Mine are not under control off the lead, I have to call them other wise they are sniffing around, running with other dogs and playing. I would not consider them under control but I take them to dog parks where people go to walk dogs and they mix with other dogs at a similar level so no one minds. But outside of there they are on the lead at all times.

Many people are afraid of dogs and while mine are super friendly even having them approach some people can cause them to get a fright. If I am walking outside they are on leads and under control. If I am walking in the dog park and someone who is afraid of dogs is walking in the park I have to question if they should be walking in the dog park.

Carlos Orange

andreac wrote: »

This can be said for any dog. Rotties are not known for aggression, far from it actually.

Rottweilers have been shown to have fairly high levels of stranger directed aggression. Low for owner directed aggression, great for you but kinda irrelevant for most of us.


http://140.122.143.143/yuyinghs/yuyinghsu/papers/DuffyHsuSerpell2008.pdf

andreac

psinno wrote: »

Rottweilers have been shown to have fairly high levels of stranger directed aggression. Low for owner directed aggression, great for you but kinda irrelevant for most of us.


http://140.122.143.143/yuyinghs/yuyinghsu/papers/DuffyHsuSerpell2008.pdf

You obviously havent been around many Rotties then. I have and i have experience with the breed so i know exactly what they are like.

Carlos Orange

andreac wrote: »

You obviously havent been around many Rotties then. I have and i have experience with the breed so i know exactly what they are like.

You seem to have misunderstood my post. I am not one of the authors of the scientific paper I referenced. Nor was I one of the dog owners surveyed.

Sadderday

sillysmiles wrote: »

Instead of starting it with a criticism, (which would make anyone disinclined to be accommodating), perhaps just try saying to him that it makes you feel uncomfortable.
The result is the same but without him feeling like you are giving out, he feels like he is helping you.

Didn't realise it sounded like a criticism but if it comes across that way I will amend it to sound more pleasant.

Sadderday

andreac wrote: »

You obviously havent been around many Rotties then. I have and i have experience with the breed so i know exactly what they are like.

You come across very defensive, the information of rotts is in general terms it doesn't mean that all rotts have the same surfaced mannerisms.
Obviously with dogs whatever instinct they have can be surpressed to a point by the environment they are in... which is why we have pleasant pets. No doubt you have had a good experience with your dog... surely you could adopt a labrador with a not so nice temperament even though they are meant to be family dogs... its just general information. I'm not even attacking the rotts, I believe they make wonderful guard dogs but when you see them act in a protective manner and they are aggresive and have foam coming from their mouths and are showing teeth it is intimadating because of their size. Had it been three jack russells I wouldn't have been so intimadated. When the owner is struggling to snap them out of this trance because he has too many dogs to control it would be easier to ensure they are muzzled so he can concentrate on getting all dogs together when a passer by arrives.

Sadderday

Grumpypants wrote: »

In the case above they don't appear to be under control as they are free to run up to this person barking and causing distress. So they should be on a lead. Dogs that can walk at heal would be considered under control. The thing is this is a very small % of dogs in Ireland. People think because they call their dog and it comes back that they are under control, they are not.

Mine are not under control off the lead, I have to call them other wise they are sniffing around, running with other dogs and playing. I would not consider them under control but I take them to dog parks where people go to walk dogs and they mix with other dogs at a similar level so no one minds. But outside of there they are on the lead at all times.

Many people are afraid of dogs and while mine are super friendly even having them approach some people can cause them to get a fright. If I am walking outside they are on leads and under control. If I am walking in the dog park and someone who is afraid of dogs is walking in the park I have to question if they should be walking in the dog park.

I know you can have more than one dog and they can be wonderful pets and going to dog parks etc is wonderful... in this case there are so many dogs we aren't even sure if he owns them all meaning he may not be 'master' and my have trouble controlling some of them.

the local park isn't necessarily a dog park, people jog, have picnics, teenagers hang out etc etc you just don't see many people in the dark evenings.

andreac

I do understand where you are coming from but i just hate people tarring breeds with names and reputations etc when nothing can be further from the truth.

I completely respect other people when out walking my dogs. I never have mine off lead in public and it can be very annoying when other dogs are off lead and come up to annoy mine.

If the dogs are genuinely being a nuisance to you then why don't you say something to him? But if they aren't doing anything like that or havent done anything then i think you may be overreacting a little.

Sadderday

andreac wrote: »

I do understand where you are coming from but i just hate people tarring breeds with names and reputations etc when nothing can be further from the truth.

I completely respect other people when out walking my dogs. I never have mine off lead in public and it can be very annoying when other dogs are off lead and come up to annoy mine.

If the dogs are genuinely being a nuisance to you then why don't you say something to him? But if they aren't doing anything like that or havent done anything then i think you may be overreacting a little.

yeah cool, understandably if you have had nothing but a good experience with your dog you want to open up peoples eyes a bit, i know they happen to be rotts if they were st bernards having a real growl I think I would be equally as intimidated if they approached just due to size alone. So wasn't having a go.

Wasn't looking to have a moan here either - was asking if anyone knew what would happen if you reported to a garda

Don't want to get this guy into trouble but genuinely nervous that he won't like this being mentioned to him by us. Was looking for advice to envisage the best course of action before deciding to go with it.

Wasn't over-reacting just explaining what we've come across and identifying a possible problem for us or someone else.

My brother is walking the dog alone this evening, he said if he sees the car he will turn around and go home but if hes parked and walking and this guy turns up my brother is on his own and i'm worried about him not having a chance. it could be something so simple and innocent like one of the dogs smelling the treats in his pocket and having a jump, our dog getting protective and growling and a scuffle happening- someone or one of the dogs could get hurt.

Its the safety of everyone involved that concerns us and although it sounds reasonable to simply ask the guy to muzzle his dogs... if he has the same mentality as some people here that don't believe rotts are aggressive he wont take kindly to us. Plus he hasn't exactly adapted any common sense and muzzled his dogs or even had the few big ones on leads when he sees our car parked and knows he will pass us at some stage. so just to avoid any confrontation I was wondering what would happen if a garda got involved.

andreac

Where exactly is this place that hes walking the dogs? Is it a park, roadway, forest?

Reason i ask is, because certain breeds are supposed to be on lead/muzzled etc in public, he might be trying to find somewhere out of the way so he can give the dogs a good run off lead as its so hard to find places to let your dogs off without them bothering people.

borderlinemeath

Sadderday wrote: »

You come across very defensive, the information of rotts is in general terms it doesn't mean that all rotts have the same surfaced mannerisms.
Obviously with dogs whatever instinct they have can be surpressed to a point by the environment they are in... which is why we have pleasant pets. No doubt you have had a good experience with your dog... surely you could adopt a labrador with a not so nice temperament even though they are meant to be family dogs... its just general information. I'm not even attacking the rotts, I believe they make wonderful guard dogs but when you see them act in a protective manner and they are aggresive and have foam coming from their mouths and are showing teeth it is intimadating because of their size. Had it been three jack russells I wouldn't have been so intimadated. When the owner is struggling to snap them out of this trance because he has too many dogs to control it would be easier to ensure they are muzzled so he can concentrate on getting all dogs together when a passer by arrives.

Firstly, by your account, this person doesn't sound like he has effectual control of the dogs in his care.
Secondly, if they are in fact Rottweilers or crosses of rotties, they should be muzzled as per the Restricted Breed Legislation.
Thirdly, you need to make sure that the legislation applies to the particular park you're in. If you're in a park that has its own bye-laws as directed by the county council, he may be required to have all dogs leashed, or perhaps none if it's a designated dog area that doesn't have restrictions.

You may accuse owners of coming across defensive but you come across as somebody who has believed every bit of scaremongering rubbish that has been spread about certain dog breeds. The RB legislation was a snap decision based on the UK legislation and literally with the flourish of a pen on the legislation, breeds became demonised overnight. Not one bit of statistical gathering was done on dog bites/dog attacks to warrant the breeds that made the list. They were included on media hype and bias and the image that owning a certain breed generates.

While all breeds have some breed traits, the majority of their temperament is determined by their upbringing and socialisaton from an early age. There are lines of dogs within breeds that can be bred specifically for temperament, be that good or bad but if a specific guarding line is bred, they are highly unlikely to be hanging around a park with a dog walker (if that's what he is) You mention you wouldn't be as scared if it was 3 JRTs?? They can be the snappiest little feckers of dogs!! Terriers by their nature can be fast reacting, hot tempered little things that are far more likely to nip than some of the larger breeds.

Oh, and picking up your dog isn't the best idea, not only will it make dogs more inquisitive and approach you to see what you've got in your arms, but your dog will start to associate approaching dogs with caution and fear, particularly if you are stressing out on the other end of the lead.

Sadderday

andreac wrote: »

Where exactly is this place that hes walking the dogs? Is it a park, roadway, forest?

Reason i ask is, because certain breeds are supposed to be on lead/muzzled etc in public, he might be trying to find somewhere out of the way so he can give the dogs a good run off lead as its so hard to find places to let your dogs off without them bothering people.

Absolutely true and understand it but if he sees a car parked at the gate he knows there is someone down there. he knows our car as we know his.

andreac

Look, if its bothering you that much then maybe mention it to him. But i cant honestly see the harm if the dogs havent and arent doing anything to actually harm you or your dog.

I walk my dogs everyday of the week and regularly meet on and off lead dogs and unless they are actually bothering my dogs then i dont bat an eyelid.

Sadderday

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Firstly, by your account, this person doesn't sound like he has effectual control of the dogs in his care.
Secondly, if they are in fact Rottweilers or crosses of rotties, they should be muzzled as per the Restricted Breed Legislation.
Thirdly, you need to make sure that the legislation applies to the particular park you're in. If you're in a park that has its own bye-laws as directed by the county council, he may be required to have all dogs leashed, or perhaps none if it's a designated dog area that doesn't have restrictions.

You may accuse owners of coming across defensive but you come across as somebody who has believed every bit of scaremongering rubbish that has been spread about certain dog breeds. The RB legislation was a snap decision based on the UK legislation and literally with the flourish of a pen on the legislation, breeds became demonised overnight. Not one bit of statistical gathering was done on dog bites/dog attacks to warrant the breeds that made the list. They were included on media hype and bias and the image that owning a certain breed generates.

While all breeds have some breed traits, the majority of their temperament is determined by their upbringing and socialisaton from an early age. There are lines of dogs within breeds that can be bred specifically for temperament, be that good or bad but if a specific guarding line is bred, they are highly unlikely to be hanging around a park with a dog walker (if that's what he is) You mention you wouldn't be as scared if it was 3 JRTs?? They can be the snappiest little feckers of dogs!! Terriers by their nature can be fast reacting, hot tempered little things that are far more likely to nip than some of the larger breeds.

Oh, and picking up your dog isn't the best idea, not only will it make dogs more inquisitive and approach you to see what you've got in your arms, but your dog will start to associate approaching dogs with caution and fear, particularly if you are stressing out on the other end of the lead.

Hi appreciate your response.

Disregarding anything I know or dont know about breeds... the situation is terrifying and I feel that I and others are in danger. large size of the dog absolutely makes you feel more uncomfortable in this situation.

Regardless of why any legislation exists - if it will contribute to the safety of the public in this instance I'm all for it. Mya not always be necessary and that must be frustrating for owners but in this case it is.

Also, we know that pulling our dog into our arms also makes other dogs assume he is superior and a possible threat but that was our reaction when they came running at us. In hindsight we realise we are putting ourselves in danger.

So although your response is informative its not exactly helpful to me I'm afraid. I'm not looking to be berated for a situation I've found myself in and don't want anyone else in. I've described it the best i can and if not mentioning the breed would have made it easier for some of you to put yourself in my situation I wouldn't have mentioned it.

hullaballoo

andreac wrote: »

Look, if its bothering you that much then maybe mention it to him. But i cant honestly see the harm if the dogs havent and arent doing anything to actually harm you or your dog.

I walk my dogs everyday of the week and regularly meet on and off lead dogs and unless they are actually bothering my dogs then i dont bat an eyelid.

I don't think this conversation can really go anywhere with your involvement: despite the fact that at least two people have identified the legal requirements around ownership of Rottweilers, you are refusing to accept this.

Please do not post in this thread again so that the OP is afforded the opportunity to obtain some non-partisan practical advice.

Sadderday

andreac wrote: »

Look, if its bothering you that much then maybe mention it to him. But i cant honestly see the harm if the dogs havent and arent doing anything to actually harm you or your dog.

I walk my dogs everyday of the week and regularly meet on and off lead dogs and unless they are actually bothering my dogs then i dont bat an eyelid.

I keep saying nothing has happened but there is a potential dangerous situation for somebody here including this guy himself in all honesty.

If you cannot see this situation for what it is you couldn't possibly be a responsible dog owner.

we love dogs, we all want ten dogs - and for them to roam free but you cannot risk putting anyone in danger for the love of your pet.

borderlinemeath

Sadderday wrote: »

Hi appreciate your response.

Disregarding anything I know or dont know about breeds... the situation is terrifying and I feel that I and others are in danger. large size of the dog absolutely makes you feel more uncomfortable in this situation.

Larger doesn't always = dangerous. One of the deadliest animals on the planet is a mosquito;)

Right now, I'm sitting in a room with 11 dogs. 3 of them are German Shepherds, the largest is one of the sheps, the smallest dog here today? A westie, who's the one who will rile up the bigger dogs, ankle nipping, making noises that some people may view as growling, but she's a little divil, she'll looking for a bit of craic out of the bigger dogs. Today they were all running around playing, barking, some of them playing tug with a rope toy, others rolling around playing with each other. It could terrify some people, but I'm used to it and I know what to expect, I read their body language, watch their interaction and step in if needs be to distract a dog from a situation.

Regardless of why any legislation exists - if it will contribute to the safety of the public in this instance I'm all for it. Mya not always be necessary and that must be frustrating for owners but in this case it is.

Actually if you look at the lists for BSL worldwide, the rottie is on very few lists. Sweden, which has an excellent reputation for promoting good pet ownership has repealed it's legislation as it saw no decrease in the numbers of reported dog bites, so in theory it wasn't the RBs biting so the legislation wasn't working.

Also, we know that pulling our dog into our arms also makes other dogs assume he is superior and a possible threat but that was our reaction when they came running at us. In hindsight we realise we are putting ourselves in danger.

Superior? No. Interesting, and something worth jumping up to smell, yes.

So although your response is informative its not exactly helpful to me I'm afraid. I'm not looking to be berated for a situation I've found myself in and don't want anyone else in. I've described it the best i can and if not mentioning the breed would have made it easier for some of you to put yourself in my situation I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Posters would have asked the breed anyway, to see whether it was on the RB list as your original query was to do with the law. Also it might be worthwhile having a look at a doggie body language chart, you assume because the dogs are in a large pack that they will attack, but it may well not be the case, dogs also drool for various reasons and foam around the mouth while out walking/running is quite common, it's not an indicator that they're going to attack.

You say the guy is holding them by the collars, does he not have enough leads for all of them? Even if he has them under effectual control without leads, he should always have enough leads to put them on if necessary.

If you know his van and are scared to approach him, why not leave a note on the windscreen? Saying that your dog is scared of the bigger dogs, any chance he could leash them if you're both there together? You don't have to make it about the law, make it about the welfare of your dog.

Gavin.

Grumpypants wrote: »

Dogs should be under control at all times so should be on a lead. But they will not attack because they are in a group. If anything they are less likely to feel threatened and are just being curious because they see you picking up a dog in a panic and want to see what is going on.

Rottweilers are not danergous. You are more likely to get bitten by your own dog than them.

How would you know that? Nonsense.

nuac

whippet wrote: »

this is something that I find interesting. My interpretation of control does not mean that the dog needs to be on a leash.

I would consider my dog to be under my control off leash in most conditions, he will respond to my commands and return to me on demand.

I can't see any reference to the requirement for a leash in the Control of Dogs Act 1996 and the subsequent 1992 amendment.

There are regulations made under these Acts in 1998.- Control of Dogs Regs

They do require than all dogs of a certain type, including Rottweilers, German Shepherds etc must always be muzzled and on a short leash while in any public place.

I know some dog ownes argue that this provision is wrong, that because a dog is large or a Rottweiler etc does not mean it is dangerous. However that is the law.

Even normally well behaved dogs can go out of control. Ask any sheep farmer.

I recall a case where a young lad met an alsation in an alley-way. All might have been well but the kid panicked and started to climb a wall to get away. The dog's instincts took over, jumped up and bit the kid in the groin. Nearly punctured the artery.

A dog found attacking people or livestock can be put down by court order.

The guy going out with ten dogs, some off the leash, is irresponsible.

nuac

Apologies to SoapMcTavish - had not seen your post before I put up mine

Sadderday

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Larger doesn't always = dangerous. One of the deadliest animals on the planet is a mosquito;)

Right now, I'm sitting in a room with 11 dogs. 3 of them are German Shepherds, the largest is one of the sheps, the smallest dog here today? A westie, who's the one who will rile up the bigger dogs, ankle nipping, making noises that some people may view as growling, but she's a little divil, she'll looking for a bit of craic out of the bigger dogs. Today they were all running around playing, barking, some of them playing tug with a rope toy, others rolling around playing with each other. It could terrify some people, but I'm used to it and I know what to expect, I read their body language, watch their interaction and step in if needs be to distract a dog from a situation.



Actually if you look at the lists for BSL worldwide, the rottie is on very few lists. Sweden, which has an excellent reputation for promoting good pet ownership has repealed it's legislation as it saw no decrease in the numbers of reported dog bites, so in theory it wasn't the RBs biting so the legislation wasn't working.



Superior? No. Interesting, and something worth jumping up to smell, yes.



Posters would have asked the breed anyway, to see whether it was on the RB list as your original query was to do with the law. Also it might be worthwhile having a look at a doggie body language chart, you assume because the dogs are in a large pack that they will attack, but it may well not be the case, dogs also drool for various reasons and foam around the mouth while out walking/running is quite common, it's not an indicator that they're going to attack.

You say the guy is holding them by the collars, does he not have enough leads for all of them? Even if he has them under effectual control without leads, he should always have enough leads to put them on if necessary.

If you know his van and are scared to approach him, why not leave a note on the windscreen? Saying that your dog is scared of the bigger dogs, any chance he could leash them if you're both there together? You don't have to make it about the law, make it about the welfare of your dog.

I never said larger always means dangerous... in this situation this is the case as I mentioned numerous times.

You feel that you can control your dogs which is great but none of this is any use to me... you are picking out words from my posts and twisting them. I love dogs, have grown up with big dogs etc etc I know they are not always dangerous but I've tried to describe to you the situation itself so you could have a better understanding.

In your post you said about your own dogs 'It could terrify some people'

Thats just what it is - and yes it could terrify some people... me, a dog lover and for a passer by that is already fearful.

I know these dogs may not have attack on thier minds and I know that they wont just attack because they are in a pack...

I keep saying it - it hasn't happened yet but it COULD happen... chances would be slimmer if they were muzzled thats all I'm saying and if one dog acts out they all will follow.

Your trying to contradict me because you are experienced with dogs, I'm not telling you they are preparing to attack me on my next encounter.. I'm telling you that its a potentially dangerous situation to be in if you are walking by because a dog could tick at any time and you don't always know the trigger... when you have ten its hard to control.

borderlinemeath

Sadderday wrote: »

I never said larger always means dangerous... in this situation this is the case as I mentioned numerous times.

But you did say this...

, i know they happen to be rotts if they were st bernards having a real growl I think I would be equally as intimidated if they approached just due to size alone.

You admit to being intimidated by size, although I'm not quite sure what a 'real growl' is, as opposed to a growl.

You feel that you can control your dogs which is great but none of this is any use to me... you are picking out words from my posts and twisting them. I love dogs, have grown up with big dogs etc etc I know they are not always dangerous but I've tried to describe to you the situation itself so you could have a better understanding.

They're not my dogs. They're other peoples that I mind. Just so you know I would never take more dogs than I can manage out on a walk, and I only let dogs off lead that I know have 100% recall. For what it's worth I wouldn't control 10 dogs in a public place, it's far too many.

In your post you said about your own dogs 'It could terrify some people'

Thats just what it is - and yes it could terrify some people... me, a dog lover and for a passer by that is already fearful.

I know these dogs may not have attack on thier minds and I know that they wont just attack because they are in a pack...

I keep saying it - it hasn't happened yet but it COULD happen... chances would be slimmer if they were muzzled thats all I'm saying and if one dog acts out they all will follow.

So do something about it? Report him to the dog warden if he's clearly flouting laws, or approach him and ask him nicely if he could leash the dogs while your dog is about.

Your trying to contradict me because you are experienced with dogs, I'm not telling you they are preparing to attack me on my next encounter.. I'm telling you that its a potentially dangerous situation to be in if you are walking by because a dog could tick at any time and you don't always know the trigger... when you have ten its hard to control.

I haven't tried to contradict you. I haven't once said your version of events is incorrect, but I do think you may be misinterpreting some body language signals by the dogs. You've shown in your previous posts that you do have some breed bias and make assumptions on what dogs will do based on reputation rather than knowledge of the individual dog. Only a fool would let 10 potentially dangerous dogs off the lead in public without knowing their temperaments first. Particularly if it's his livelyhood.

In any case, there's no point in continuing the discussion, you know the answers to your queries but you seem too afraid to approach this person to resolve the issue you have.