Car technology rant!

Stallingrad

Remember when good ergonomics was something that was aspired to in interior car design? Look now at the increasing number of cars that are doing away with buttons, replacing them with touch screens, touch pads, etc. In every case it requires you to take your eyes off the road, sometimes drill down through menus, even to cary out routine functions. Car manufacturers are pushing all their driving safety devices then designing in features that invite you to take you eye off the road. It all smacks of building in obsolescence, and pandering to current fads at the expense of what is practical, works well and is safe. But Joe car buyer will be wowed by a car with a big tablet bolted on the dash and will love to show it off, even if he ends upside down in a ditch.

In my car if I want to adjust the temp or where I want the air I don't have to look at the dash, can go from max cold to max heat in .5 of a second, try that the new Peugeot 308. And don't get me started on touch pads as found in Lexus/Opel and others. Add in increased internet connectivity and watch as collision stats go through the roof. Insanity.

I'm no luddite, I like my gadgets, but bad interior design is dangerous design.

Rant over!!

jimgoose

Yeah, I'm with Bill Adama on this one.

fryup

yep, its a distraction

Theanswers

Many of those cars also of voice control. Oh wait this is ROI - VRT prevents this!

Anan1

Theanswers wrote: »

Many of those cars also of voice control. Oh wait this is ROI - VRT prevents this!

You don't want voice control of any important system in a car. It's too slow, and still far too unreliable.

SleeperService

Anan1 wrote: »

You don't want voice control of any important system in a car. It's too slow, and still far too unreliable.

And it seems to want you to speak with an english accent at a female pitch, in my limited experience.

Could be worse, I hope whoever supplied the speech recognition for revenue's phone line never designs a car interface.
"Bluetooth"
"Did you say self destruct?"
"Nooo!"
"you said yes, sequence initiated"

keithclancy

Stallingrad wrote: »

Remember when good ergonomics was something that was aspired to in interior car design? Look now at the increasing number of cars that are doing away with buttons, replacing them with touch screens, touch pads, etc. In every case it requires you to take your eyes off the road, sometimes drill down through menus, even to cary out routine functions. Car manufacturers are pushing all their driving safety devices then designing in features that invite you to take you eye off the road. It all smacks of building in obsolescence, and pandering to current fads at the expense of what is practical, works well and is safe. But Joe car buyer will be wowed by a car with a big tablet bolted on the dash and will love to show it off, even if he ends upside down in a ditch.

In my car if I want to adjust the temp or where I want the air I don't have to look at the dash, can go from max cold to max heat in .5 of a second, try that the new Peugeot 308. And don't get me started on touch pads as found in Lexus/Opel and others. Add in increased internet connectivity and watch as collision stats go through the roof. Insanity.

I'm no luddite, I like my gadgets, but bad interior design is dangerous design.

Rant over!!

Reminds me of trying to deal with iDrive in German and then ending up with a cheapo Tomtom stuck to the Windscreen on an almost new 7 series.
Even changing the radio station was hassle.

Due to the Irish/English/German/Dutch multiculturalism of where I live, telling my phone to call my wife can end up with it dialing the emergency services in malta.

Theanswers

Anan1 wrote: »

You don't want voice control of any important system in a car. It's too slow, and still far too unreliable.

I agree, there completely useless - However the fact is that there not there.

Handiest thing I've seen that they can do is in Land Rovers.

*Press Button
*Speaks 'Record Note'
*Press Button

Now one can record notes and play them back. Handy.

Zubeneschamali

These fancy interfaces originally came in for cars like a BMW 7 series or Merc S-Class, where there would be literally 100 knobs and buttons on the dash to control all the gubbins fitted. Sticking a touch screen into a Peugeot 208 or a Clio is just a stupid fad - it doesn't have nearly enough gadgets to need one.

For anything I want to adjust on the move, a knob/switch in a known location that I don't have to look at is safer. A button on/near the wheel, better still.

I can operate the driving controls, adjust the air and temperature, demist the windows, and operate the stereo and phone without looking. Putting any of those in a menu that I have to look down and away from the road to view is just wrong.

_Kaiser_

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For anything I want to adjust on the move, a knob/switch in a known location that I don't have to look at is safer. A button on/near the wheel, better still.

I can operate the driving controls, adjust the air and temperature, demist the windows, and operate the stereo and phone without looking. Putting any of those in a menu that I have to look down and away from the road to view is just wrong.

RE controls on the wheel.. it'd be much better if you could customise these I think.

EG: In my A6, the volume controls are on the right, but being left-handed it's usually easier for me to adjust it via the control on the MMI centre console. While I'm there I might as well change the station etc.
Result: attention divided and the steering wheel buttons become redundant. Also the display in-dash is a lot more cumbersome than the dedicated MMI screen.

But if I could reset/change the layout of the steering wheel buttons it'd be far more convenient.

djimi

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

RE controls on the wheel.. it'd be much better if you could customise these I think.

EG: In my A6, the volume controls are on the right, but being left-handed it's usually easier for me to adjust it via the control on the MMI centre console. While I'm there I might as well change the station etc.
Result: attention divided and the steering wheel buttons become redundant. Also the display in-dash is a lot more cumbersome than the dedicated MMI screen.

But if I could reset/change the layout of the steering wheel buttons it'd be far more convenient.

Surely its not that hard to get used to using the steering wheel controls with your "wrong" hand?

Voodoomelon

Theanswers wrote: »

I agree, there completely useless - However the fact is that there not there.

Handiest thing I've seen that they can do is in Land Rovers.

*Press Button
*Speaks 'Record Note'
*Press Button

Now one can record notes and play them back. Handy.

I was messing with this feature the other day (i dont have my car long) and when i said "playback notes", there was the previous owners voice saying in a dublin accent "no i dont wanna leave a fookin note".

SleeperService

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I was messing with this feature the other day (i dont have my car long) and when i said "playback notes", there was the previous owners voice saying in a dublin accent "no i dont wanna leave a fookin note".

Had an alarm system that would play back the installer/previous tenant saying "yup yup 7up".
Dats limerick citaay...

Cee-Jay-Cee

All this new technology while supposedly high tech and requiring a degree of intelligence creates idiot drivers who expect cars to do everything for them...like switching on the fcuking lights in poor weather/twilight.

HandsomeDan

? Climate control is set and forget. No need to go max heat/cold. It does that for you.

Hiding infrequently used controls using a touch screen nicely de-clutters the car IMO. As someone else said, think on the amount of buttons you'd need otherwise.

If you wanna make a virtue of being a Luddite, buy a fúcking Sandero or something!

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

The centre console on my Accord is fairly confusing. I've had the car 6 months and still don't know what half of the buttons do, I'd really want to sit in to it for half an hour and figure it out. Pretty hard to get your head around while driving anyway.


http://www.autoevolution.com/testdrive-hd-photo/honda-accord-test-drive-2012-720p-44

Noccy_Mondy

The voice control is waaay too slow!
*beep*
Me: climate
*device please*
Me: fan
*temperature*
Me: 25 degrees
*fan speed please*
At this point I just get pissed off and cancel the whole thing.
Takes about 5 seconds to do it manually, as about a minute with the voice control.
Useless and annoying altogether, and it won't pick up the bogger accent :P so I have to speak in an English, well spoken tone.

Triangla

Centre console in my Volvo S40 - easy peasy.

If you need an instruction manual the designers have done something wrong IMHO

H3llR4iser

An advantage of low-spec cars if want to call it that way (delusional mode on:D)!

My 159 has exactly three buttons on the central console (except for the radio, a basic Blaupunkt, and the manual climate control): lock doors, ASR/VDC and emergency lights. All the rest is managed through the onboard computer, that doesn't work if the car is moving

HandsomeDan

Triangla wrote: »

Centre console in my Volvo S40 - easy peasy.

If you need an instruction manual the designers have done something wrong IMHO

That's an awful queer lookin' centre stack

Triangla

HandsomeDan wrote: »

That's an awful queer lookin' centre stack

Queer like a fox!

BrensBenz

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

RE controls on the wheel.. it'd be much better if you could customise these I think.

EG: In my A6, the volume controls are on the right, but being left-handed it's usually easier for me to adjust it via the control on the MMI centre console. While I'm there I might as well change the station etc.
Result: attention divided and the steering wheel buttons become redundant. Also the display in-dash is a lot more cumbersome than the dedicated MMI screen.

But if I could reset/change the layout of the steering wheel buttons it'd be far more convenient.

Some might regard this as a first world problem! But here's a real world problem:
Due to my chronological advantage, SpecSavers have given up on me. My bi-focal glasses allow me to see traffic, road signs, pedestrians and (through the bifocal part) my watch, but I can't read anything on the dashboard. And varifocal lenses merely encourage me to nod a lot.

I've tried explaining to the Gorthee that, while I "may" have been speeding, it doesn't count because my speedo is a blur. For some reason, they remain unimpressed with this explanation and refuse to take it up with the car designers.

When I asked the car makers to install bigger speedos, they asked "How big?" "Well, I can read Clerys clock." Still no response after that.

But yes. Customisable buttons would be good, especially if they're as big as HobNobs.
And "because we can" is no reason to install devices into cars that only geeks in labcoats can fathom. iDrive was a tremendous innovation that should never have been fitted to two tons of mobile metal, to be driven by non-geeks.

djimi

HandsomeDan wrote: »

That's an awful queer lookin' centre stack

I sat into an S40 that my father was considering buying and I have to say it took me a minute to get my head around what was going on with that console alright!

dr.fuzzenstein

CJC999 wrote: »

All this new technology while supposedly high tech and requiring a degree of intelligence creates idiot drivers who expect cars to do everything for them...like switching on the fcuking lights in poor weather/twilight.

Why, that's easy!
You just have to access the menu, go to car settings, lighting, exterior, select if you want full or dipped, click OK and you're good!
Isn't progress marvellous.

Chris_Heilong

jimgoose

As far as Paddy and Patricia Six-Pack are concerned, if they're going to pay some Bull Cullen-oid €35,000 for a 1.6 diesel hatchback they'd better by the living furk have plenty knobs and buttons and things that go BEEP, and I'm not talking about the hooter! Observe, on the other hand, how the other half live. This is the dash and console of a Rolls-Royce Phantom - a model of elegant simplicity:

HandsomeDan

jimgoose wrote: »

As far as Paddy and Patricia Six-Pack are concerned, if they're going to pay some Bull Cullen-oid €35,000 for a 1.6 diesel hatchback they'd better by the living furk have plenty knobs and buttons and things that go BEEP, and I'm not talking about the hooter! Observe, on the other hand, how the other half live. This is the dash and console of a Rolls-Royce Phantom - a model of elegant simplicity:

Get over yourself. That Rolls dash is a hideous disaster. Like something a 90YO would fancy.

ednwireland

had a golf rental with atouch screen radio that was bad enough, your right stalingrad erganomics has gone, just slap a big touch screen in the middle of the dash it'll be ok, its obviously cheaper than a load of well designed switches and knobs

dont get me started on car electronics honestly after a bit of traction control and abs (and never needed the first in my old primera) whats the point for normal driving. dont get me wrong i love all that stuff but i tend to run older cars and tbh i tend to look for as little as possible on them

jimgoose

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Get over yourself. That Rolls dash is a hideous disaster. Like something a 90YO would fancy.

Get over myself?? Shtall the furkan artic there chief - I like RR dashes, the 90 year-old thing is your opinion.

Mycroft H

Triangla wrote: »

Centre console in my Volvo S40 - easy peasy.

If you need an instruction manual the designers have done something wrong IMHO

That's very classy looking. Love it.

D_BEAR

I think Tesla win the award for crazy dash layout.

dr.fuzzenstein

jimgoose wrote: »

As far as Paddy and Patricia Six-Pack are concerned, if they're going to pay some Bull Cullen-oid €35,000 for a 1.6 diesel hatchback they'd better by the living furk have plenty knobs and buttons and things that go BEEP, and I'm not talking about the hooter! Observe, on the other hand, how the other half live. This is the dash and console of a Rolls-Royce Phantom - a model of elegant simplicity:

Now THAT is nice.
Taste and style just can't be bought.

HandsomeDan

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Now THAT is nice.
Taste and style just can't be bought.

Looks like a pimped faux-retro 00's BMW interior - which is what it is.



Utterly ghastly

No Pants

Theanswers wrote: »

I agree, there completely useless - However the fact is that there not there.

Handiest thing I've seen that they can do is in Land Rovers.

*Press Button
*Speaks 'Record Note'
*Press Button

Now one can record notes and play them back. Handy.

Is it not dangerous to take your hands off the wheel to play the note?

MuppetCheck

I hate touch screens. I've had 3 of them and each one takes way too much concentration to use, particularly on anything but smooth roads. At least with a button you can feel your way to it.

Stallingrad

The thing is sound ergonomics is not subjective, it is a science. You could argue the Rolls looks good or bad, but you can have a dash that looks terrible, but actually functions really well.

Take heater controls, some cars have them set very low, some very high, surely there is a right place for them and that is where they should be? No, stylist now dictate where things appear. Look at the new S-Class, people are raving about the interior but look at the huge percentage of the dash that is given over to the vents, where air comes out! It looks like something out of the 50's. This is where the vital controls should be.

HandsomeDan

Stallingrad wrote: »

The thing is sound ergonomics is not subjective, it is a science. You could argue the Rolls looks good or bad, but you can have a dash that looks terrible, but actually functions really well.

Take heater controls, some cars have them set very low, some very high, surely there is a right place for them and that is where they should be? No, stylist now dictate where things appear. Look at the new S-Class, people are raving about the interior but look at the huge percentage of the dash that is given over to the vents, where air comes out! It looks like something out of the 50's. This is where the vital controls should be.

Controls are just below the vents. More below the gear lever.

Climate control is set and forget - no need to constantly adjust.

S class interior is amazing.

mickdw

CJC999 wrote: »

All this new technology while supposedly high tech and requiring a degree of intelligence creates idiot drivers who expect cars to do everything for them...like switching on the fcuking lights in poor weather/twilight.

The car does it and does it flawlessly so what is the issue there. Dont knock it til you try it. Lights go on, lights go off. Lights self level, wipers do their thing pretty flawlessly also. Im seriously thinking of retro fitting the headlight assistant also that lets the car do the dipped beam also as thats a pain in the ass on a long cruise across the country at night.
Is it not better have cars that will always switch on the lights when needed than have an idiot driver (maybe 1 in 100) who drives without the lights.
Then you have the climate control pretty much looks after itself.
Why people think it is necessary to go fiddling in multi level menus while driving is beyond me.

ianobrien

I remember reading somewhere that Ford (I think) did a study into the push towards touchscreens/trackpads/etc in cars. The feedback was that it's much safer to have separate dials & buttons for the common items (volume, station, heating etc) as users can adjust these without taking their eyes off the road. They found that changing volume for example on a trackpad/touchscreen means taking the drivers eyes off the road to see what's on the touchscreen whereas if it's a dial muscle memory comes in and the driver could find the volume without taking his eyes off the road. The user could make small adjustments much easier with a dial over a touchscreen.

Some manufacturers have got it right with buttons/dials for common items either on the dash or steering wheel. Others have far too much buried in menus or the worst is loads of small buttons grouped together meaning that you could pick the wrong one. Others have systems that work fine in the lab or on smooth Autobahns. Have any of the manufacturers tried to use a touchscreen dash on a typical Irish backroad with both the car and driver getting shook to death?

dgt

No tech like low tech :cool:

RandomAccess

Touch screens in right hand drive cars with a majority right handed population (as much as 90%) are not going to work!

We are doooooooomed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handedness

Triangla

Cool back in the day but a bit impractical now.

You have to look out the side window to watch a DVD ffs

dr.fuzzenstein

^^^
Who cares, Turbo Boost!
And then land the car on it's nose with obvious chassis damage and bits flying off it, but in the next shot, it's perfectly fine.

jimgoose

Triangla wrote: »

Cool back in the day but a bit impractical now.

You have to look out the side window to watch a DVD ffs...

Amazing how what looked to cool and hi-tech in the 1980s now reminds you of a very old oscilloscope! :pac::pac::pac:

dr.fuzzenstein

jimgoose wrote: »

Amazing how what looked to cool and hi-tech in the 1980s now reminds you of a very old oscilloscope! :pac::pac::pac:

But still, you can talk into your watch if you own one!

Mycroft H

I am the Knight Industries Three Thousand. You may call me "K.I.T.T"

cruizer101

jimgoose wrote: »

Amazing how what looked to cool and hi-tech in the 1980s now reminds you of a very old oscilloscope! :pac::pac::pac:

I'm confused though, definitely looks 80's but DVD wasn't invented til 1995.

Edit: wait I realise now tis someones recreation of KITT and they added in DVD

jimgoose

cruizer101 wrote: »

I'm confused though, definitely looks 80's but DVD wasn't invented til 1995

I believe the photo above is a more moden replica of KITT's dash!

jimgoose

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

But still, you can talk into your watch if you own one!

Done that and blown up the T-shirt!

dr.fuzzenstein

jimgoose wrote: »

Done that and blown up the T-shirt!

The Hoff still talks into his watch...

jimgoose

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The Hoff still talks into his watch...

Aye. And seeing as it's The Hoff, the watch talks back. :cool: