Unorthodox grip: Minor

nice_guy80

number one issue is hurley length and weight

replace all their hurleys with smaller ones

you can get 'mini hurleys' from Curran in Westmeath and do lots of bean bag work - ensure they are holding mini hurley with strong hand and catching with weaker hand.

glue a glove onto the stick for their strong hand - they have to put hand through the glove to hold hurley.

give all parents a leaflet explaining why this needs to be done, for the sake of the child.
make it a policy throughout the club that the first few weeks of the season are focussed on correct hurley grip and also hurley size. when children first come into the club, parents should buy the hurley off the club, not in a shop. They ALWAYS buy a bigger hurley and think the child will grow into it.

Martin567

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Can't imagine it's that odd.

I didn't play a huge amount of hurling and only at Junior B level but when I started playing when I was young it naturally felt more right as a right handed person to hold the hurl in my right hand, catch the ball in my left hand and the left hand would be on top when striking the ball.

Regardless of it being the correct technique it is surely odd to hold the hurl in your left hand if you happen to be right handed unless you are told otherwise.

I'm very confused as to what you're saying here.

Everything was correct in your first paragraph until you got to the bit about the left hand being on top. This would involve a switch of hands after throwing the ball up to hit it.

Your second paragraph makes no sense at all. A right handed person holding the hurl in their left hand is most definitely not the correct technique!

Dirty Dingus McGee

Martin567 wrote: »

I'm very confused as to what you're saying here.

Everything was correct in your first paragraph until you got to the bit about the left hand being on top. This would involve a switch of hands after throwing the ball up to hit it.

Your second paragraph makes no sense at all. A right handed person holding the hurl in their left hand is most definitely not the correct technique!

OK.The correct technique in hurling seems to be the equivalent of playing a back hand shot in tennis.That seems odd if you take into consideration other sports which involve using a stick/bat to hit a ball.




I catch the ball in my left hand hold the hurl in my right and when I strike the ball the left hand would be on top (closest to the handle of the hurl), the right hand is doing all the work in swinging the hurl.

I'll go home this evening and check if I described what I do correctly.

Martin567

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

OK.The correct technique in hurling seems to be the equivalent of playing a back hand shot in tennis.That seems odd if you take into consideration other sports which involve using a stick/bat to hit a ball.


I catch the ball in my left hand hold the hurl in my right and when I strike the ball the left hand would be on top (closest to the handle of the hurl), the right hand is doing all the work in swinging the hurl.

I'll go home this evening and check if I described what I do correctly.

One thing that makes hurling different to other sports involving a stick and a ball is the fact that, to play at a decent standard, players have to be able to hit from both sides. This is not the case in other sports. Also, hurlers will have the same hand on top when striking from the left or right.

I would consider striking from the right with your right hand on top to be the equivalent of a forehand in tennis. Striking from the left with your right hand on top is like a backhand.

Your method of switching hands when striking the ball is completely unorthodox. A few intercounty players do it, Walter Walsh being a good example but it is not to be recommended.

I find it interesting that you consider your right hand (the lower hand as you swing) to be the one doing all the work. I'm also right handed (with my right hand on top) and I consider that the top hand does all the work.

I play golf using left handed clubs (with my right hand on top). I see it as being left sided (or a right handed backhand) and not left handed in any way. My right hand (the top one) is the hand doing all the work.

nice_guy80

in tennis you don't have to run and strike the ball

the forearm muscles are ideally suited to the strong hand at end of hurley for grip and other hand guiding the swing
this grip gives the forearm muscles the spring like tension to be able to snap a much tighter and efficient swing

whereas when the hands are switched, the swing is much looser and the upper body is needed to generate more power

Dirty Dingus McGee

Martin567 wrote: »

One thing that makes hurling different to other sports involving a stick and a ball is the fact that, to play at a decent standard, players have to be able to hit from both sides. This is not the case in other sports. Also, hurlers will have the same hand on top when striking from the left or right.

I would consider striking from the right with your right hand on top to be the equivalent of a forehand in tennis. Striking from the left with your right hand on top is like a backhand.

Your method of switching hands when striking the ball is completely unorthodox. A few intercounty players do it, Walter Walsh being a good example but it is not to be recommended.

I find it interesting that you consider your right hand (the lower hand as you swing) to be the one doing all the work. I'm also right handed (with my right hand on top) and I consider that the top hand does all the work.

I play golf using left handed clubs (with my right hand on top). I see it as being left sided (or a right handed backhand) and not left handed in any way. My right hand (the top one) is the hand doing all the work.

Just checked my strike again and as I described I hold the hurl in my right, hold the ball in my left and when I strike the ball the left had is always above the right hand and the right hand is doing almost all of the work.

Any other way seems extremely unnatural, nobody ever taught me how to strike the ball so that was the way I first picked up a hurl I did it that way and I'd say it's not that odd an occurrence in general as if I picked up any other type of object to swing I'd do the same thing.

Bonniedog

I once got into a huge row with a county board coach over this! I'm same - or rather was as retired now - and was could strike almost as well on both sides. I never bothered correcting young fellas if they gripped the stick with left hand on top, once they were comfortable with it. Main thing is to develop your weaker side and that is down to practise, not grip.

Coach by the way was fit to be tied! Everything has to be by the manual now :-(

Realt Dearg Sec

A lot of the posts on here remind me of babs Keating's comment, "if you asked him to shorten the hurl, he'd start from the wrong end".

Twiceasnice97

arctictree wrote: »

Just thought I'd bring up this old thread.

I've recently taken charge of a group of juveniles and its amazing how many have the wrong grip. I've shown them the right way but many of them just won't do it as 'it doesn't feel right'? Do ye think its a bit much to make them stand out if they wont do it?!

it`s not amazing at all.
It begins with children having hurleys that are too big for them so the hand starts to move down the hurley to control it.
the old measurement of hurley to the hip is far far too big for kids
secondly coachs are content if a child can hit the ball out of the hand and make a contribution in under 8 and 10 games with no sense of how that will affect their ability to play as an adult and also some people have no sense of whats going on other than where the ball is

the key question is that loads of children play the way you describe but only walter walsh does it at intercounty level. if it doesn`t affect you where do all of those players go in the journey from club under 10 to inter county minor and on

the only reason walsh can do it at all is because he is so physically powerful

Twiceasnice97

Martin567 wrote: »

One thing that makes hurling different to other sports involving a stick and a ball is the fact that, to play at a decent standard, players have to be able to hit from both sides. This is not the case in other sports. Also, hurlers will have the same hand on top when striking from the left or right.

I would consider striking from the right with your right hand on top to be the equivalent of a forehand in tennis. Striking from the left with your right hand on top is like a backhand.

Your method of switching hands when striking the ball is completely unorthodox. A few intercounty players do it, Walter Walsh being a good example but it is not to be recommended.

I find it interesting that you consider your right hand (the lower hand as you swing) to be the one doing all the work. I'm also right handed (with my right hand on top) and I consider that the top hand does all the work.

I play golf using left handed clubs (with my right hand on top). I see it as being left sided (or a right handed backhand) and not left handed in any way. My right hand (the top one) is the hand doing all the work.

can you name another one?

Walsh is in fact the only one

Twiceasnice97

Bonniedog wrote: »

I once got into a huge row with a county board coach over this! I'm same - or rather was as retired now - and was could strike almost as well on both sides. I never bothered correcting young fellas if they gripped the stick with left hand on top, once they were comfortable with it. Main thing is to develop your weaker side and that is down to practise, not grip.

Coach by the way was fit to be tied! Everything has to be by the manual now :-(

you are totally utterly and completely wrong and the coach is right.
Your attitude has prevented countless children reaching their full potential.

if you were correct intercounty hurling would be full of players hurling the way you walsh did but it`s not.

The children you coached who held the hurley the wrong way had all the same ambitions physical and mental abilitys and desires as the kids who did it correctly yet they were immediately prevented from reaching county level by your view unless they had some type of extraordinary physical attributes that bridged the gap.
The intercounty game which is the place that skills are most under pressure doesn`t even let players who simply turn the toe of the hurley in rather than out survive the margins are so tight yet you are blasé about a flaw as fundamental as the wrong catching hand. trying to portray it as some sort of lost tradition is ludicrous. The coach is trying to give players the chance to fulfil their potential while you are simply trying to validate your own career.

Twiceasnice97

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Just checked my strike again and as I described I hold the hurl in my right, hold the ball in my left and when I strike the ball the left had is always above the right hand and the right hand is doing almost all of the work.

Any other way seems extremely unnatural, nobody ever taught me how to strike the ball so that was the way I first picked up a hurl I did it that way and I'd say it's not that odd an occurrence in general as if I picked up any other type of object to swing I'd do the same thing.

most other sports don`t require you to have the ball in your hand before you strike it which is the fundamental difference

Realt Dearg Sec

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

can you name another one?

Walsh is in fact the only one

Taggy Fogarty had the ould Protestant grip as well.

nice_guy80

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Taggy Fogarty had the ould Protestant grip as well.

He didn't catch the ball with the other hand like Walter does

Realt Dearg Sec

nice_guy80 wrote: »

He didn't catch the ball with the other hand like Walter does

Yeah that's incredibly limiting, but I think what bonniedog is talking about just lads putting the wrong hand on top. I would still say that's a big problem and limits the ceiling on what a player can achieve, but catching the ball with the top hand is disastrously awkward and limiting, totally limits your ability to get a good fast strong swing under pressure.

arctictree

Thanks for the replies. So what to do with a kid that just refuses to change his grip?! Should he be made sit out?

nice_guy80

arctictree wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. So what to do with a kid that just refuses to change his grip?! Should he be made sit out?

I already suggested a few things

Bonniedog

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah that's incredibly limiting, but I think what bonniedog is talking about just lads putting the wrong hand on top. I would still say that's a big problem and limits the ceiling on what a player can achieve, but catching the ball with the top hand is disastrously awkward and limiting, totally limits your ability to get a good fast strong swing under pressure.

Lots of players hold the stick at top with their left and catch with right. Including as people have mentioned current and former greats.

Bit of Church of Scientology creeping into the game, if you ask me!

Bonniedog

arctictree wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. So what to do with a kid that just refuses to change his grip?! Should he be made sit out?

Banned for life if you listen to some people

Realt Dearg Sec

Bonniedog wrote: »

Lots of players hold the stick at top with their left and catch with right. Including as people have mentioned current and former greats.

Bit of Church of Scientology creeping into the game, if you ask me!

Not sure I follow you there chief.

Bonniedog

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Not sure I follow you there chief.

You hurl in Dublin. You can have all the coaching in the world. It is game of instinct and natural ability. And most of all playing at a decent level. We have coaching, we don't have the other stuff.

nice_guy80

Bonniedog wrote: »

You hurl in Dublin. You can have all the coaching in the world. It is game of instinct and natural ability. And most of all playing at a decent level. We have coaching, we don't have the other stuff.

the young Dubs picking up a hurley for the first time are still watching and copying what their fathers did wrong 20/30 years ago.
all the other counties have generations of good habits and that produces players with correct grip

Realt Dearg Sec

Bonniedog wrote: »

You hurl in Dublin. You can have all the coaching in the world. It is game of instinct and natural ability. And most of all playing at a decent level. We have coaching, we don't have the other stuff.

Dubs don't have instinct and natural ability? Isn't that basically the same as Donal Og's snipe about Dublin being a team of "manufactured hurlers" from a few years ago? There's nothing innate about the ability of Kilkenny or Tipp players, it's about the culture and focus on the sport.

But I'm still not following. Are you saying that not correcting someone's grip will give them better instincts and natural ability? My experience of learning to hurl in Kilkenny was that there was a lot of emphasis on technical aspects of the game, in particular your grip and your swing. I had the backward grip myself when I was hurling around age 8 with Dicksboro. Went down to a street league once and all of the hurlers holding the stick cackhanded were taken aside and taught how to hold the hurl properly before we were let play in the league.

There are some top hurlers who have that grip. Many of them are left handed, in which case it isn't backwards anyway. Among those who hold it awkwardly, they are absolutely in the minority, and I'm willing to bet that the proportion of players holding the hurl that way that make it to intercounty is much lower than among those with a conventional grip. Like I said, it's not completely disastrous, you can hurl away like that, and some players, like Taggy Fogarty, find a way to be excellent with it. But it's giving yourself an unnecessary hill to climb. If you were teaching someone to play golf and they held the club the wrong way round you would correct them immediately. There's no difference here except that the hands are switched. It's probably not as detrimental as in golf, but it's still an issue. It weakens your ability to snap the swing, because your wrists are crossed.

And on the separate point of someone who catches with the same hand that they put on top when striking, (although as I said I don't think you were talking about leaving a player do this, though someone accused you of it), that's extremely limiting, you can't get a quick swing, it's inviting being hooked or blocked.