James Hart

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I finally got around to watching James Hart lineout for Grenoble last week. He's a really tasty player, good kicker, plays in a position we don't have much depth in and is plying his trade in the most physical league in rugby

He should really be brought to Argentina during the summer if they don't make the play-offs

Oh, and he can also play outhalf and at 22 has massive room for improvement

Neil3030

I'm presuming the French don't pronounce the 'H' or 'T' in his surname, i.e., James "Arr"

With a French lilt that would make him sound like a rather debonaire pirate.

BoarHunter

the T is pronounced so it would sound more like "Art".

Neil3030

Ah no. That's disappointing

pickarooney

On an unrelated note, most French commentators pronounce Cian and Sean the same way.

Sianili - sounds like a Fijian winger.

Neil3030

pickarooney wrote: »

On an unrelated note, most French commentators pronounce Cian and Sean the same way.

Sianili - sounds like a Fijian winger.

Built like one too :pac:

Heroditas

pickarooney wrote: »

On an unrelated note, most French commentators pronounce Cian and Sean the same way.

Sianili - sounds like a Fijian winger.

Bet they can't pronounce names as well as Ryle Nugent though.

Says I To Bridey

Unless he signs up to one of the provinces I'd rather not.

thomond2006

Says I To Bridey wrote: »

Unless he signs up to one of the provinces I'd rather not.

That doesn't make any sense. The bloke had to go abroad because he didn't make it at the provinces. He's signed up at Grenoble until 2017 but why should it be a deterrent to select him? Both Boss and Reddan will be 35 come the World Cup so they aren't long term options. Hart is a starting scrum-half and kicker for at worst a mid-table Top14 side in a competitive league.

Riskymove

thomond2006 wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense.

indeed, the guy is paying well in the Top14...what more do people want?

Says I To Bridey

Because unless your exceptional the last thing we want to do is encourage players to move abroad. Its bad enough the disruption we're getting with Sexton and he's only one player, more players going abroad will make things worse.

matthew8

McLeod and Michalak might take a lot of time off him next season. I'm impressed whenever I see him but you have to wonder how much the coaches rate him with those transfers (unless they play Michalak at 10.

wp_rathead

Says I To Bridey wrote: »

Because unless your exceptional the last thing we want to do is encourage players to move abroad. Its bad enough the disruption we're getting with Sexton and he's only one player, more players going abroad will make things worse.

That is up there with "Heaslip shouldn't be picked cuase of Dre Beats" as all time worst reasons to not pick a player

sydthebeat

Says I To Bridey wrote: »

Because unless your exceptional the last thing we want to do is encourage players to move abroad. Its bad enough the disruption we're getting with Sexton and he's only one player, more players going abroad will make things worse.

players going abroad when they are at the top of their game and best in their position like Sexton, ok it can be argued its bad (not fully though IMHO)


but a player starting his career woudl be severyly shackled if he could only choose one of three top clubs teams, or a development side.

moving abroad for a young player is a very good thing.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Says I To Bridey wrote: »

Because unless your exceptional the last thing we want to do is encourage players to move abroad. Its bad enough the disruption we're getting with Sexton and he's only one player, more players going abroad will make things worse.

ya he should have stayed in Ireland and played ammeter rugby!

thomond2006

matthew8 wrote: »

McLeod and Michalak might take a lot of time off him next season. I'm impressed whenever I see him but you have to wonder how much the coaches rate him with those transfers (unless they play Michalak at 10.

Michalak hasn't signed. He'll probably stay at Toulon with Kockott not coming.

Riskymove

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

ya he should have stayed in Ireland and played ammeter rugby!

this

there are only 4 provinces and only so many spots

Hagz

I don't see why we would pick him. We have enough depth at scrum-half and Murray and Reddan are two good options. On top of that, it's unlikely that he will be picked given that he is playing abroad. Same reason we are unlikely to see Sheridan get capped until he comes back over here.

Podge_irl

Says I To Bridey wrote: »

Because unless your exceptional the last thing we want to do is encourage players to move abroad. Its bad enough the disruption we're getting with Sexton and he's only one player, more players going abroad will make things worse.

Hart moved abroad for exactly the right reasons and in fact I would quite like to encourage other players to try the same thing.

thomond2006

Says I To Bridey wrote: »

Because unless your exceptional the last thing we want to do is encourage players to move abroad. Its bad enough the disruption we're getting with Sexton and he's only one player, more players going abroad will make things worse.

That's effectively punishing a player for needing to go abroad to establish a career in professional rugby. England can have a strict policy because they have 12 top flight clubs that players can move to and from. Hart would probably still be playing AIL if he hadn't moved.

Says I To Bridey

wprathead wrote: »

That is up there with "Heaslip shouldn't be picked cuase of Dre Beats" as all time worst reasons to not pick a player

:rolleyes:

sydthebeat wrote: »

players going abroad when they are at the top of their game and best in their position like Sexton, ok it can be argued its bad (not fully though IMHO)


but a player starting his career woudl be severyly shackled if he could only choose one of three top clubs teams, or a development side.

moving abroad for a young player is a very good thing.

Yep, fair play to him making a name for himself abroad, takes serious guts and he's obviously a good player. Others should have done it/do it. But if they harbour ambitions for playing for Ireland, they should look at potentially coming home if they're good enough, like Copeland. And Connacht aren't a development side anymore.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

ya he should have stayed in Ireland and played ammeter rugby!

Yeah didn't say that, said he should come home.

thomond2006

If Leinster didn't offer him a deal then where could he go? He's be a bencher behind Murray and Pienaar. Is he really going to step down to a struggling Connacht when he is part of a developing Grenoble side who have gone from a ProD2 team to Top14 playoff contenders in three seasons?

There is no evidence to suggest that picking Irish players abroad will entice players to leave. O'Brien, Heaslip and Murray all stayed despite offers. It's not comparable to Wales where top players are on less money and playing for uncompetitive/poorly run teams.

matthew8

thomond2006 wrote: »

Michalak hasn't signed. He'll probably stay at Toulon with Kockott not coming.

Good news for Hart should see plenty of time then. Was Michalak a rumour or did I just make that up?

thomond2006

matthew8 wrote: »

Good news for Hart should see plenty of time then. Was Michalak a rumour or did I just make that up?

No it was a rumour. Landreau said Michalak wants to stay at Toulon to be guaranteed European rugby.

errlloyd

We need to cap him anyway. I'm a big fan of French style nines. Though I do wonder is their lack of aability to find a game controlling ten something to do with the fact that they seem to encourage the 9 to control.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I will admit that I've only seen Hart play twice, but I'd have Marmion ahead of him.

For the Summer tour I'd probably bring have Murray and Marmion as my top two scrum halves (Marmion ahead of Reddan/Boss for developmental reasons), Hart would probably be my third choice, but I don't know if he would feature.

stephen_n

Says I To Bridey wrote: »

Because unless your exceptional the last thing we want to do is encourage players to move abroad. Its bad enough the disruption we're getting with Sexton and he's only one player, more players going abroad will make things worse.

What disruption are you referring to?

Says I To Bridey wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Yep, fair play to him making a name for himself abroad, takes serious guts and he's obviously a good player. Others should have done it/do it. But if they harbour ambitions for playing for Ireland, they should look at potentially coming home if they're good enough, like Copeland. And Connacht aren't a development side anymore.



Yeah didn't say that, said he should come home.

So with no clubs here offering him either a starting place or a contract, he should turn down the three year contract on offer from the club giving plenty of first team start time, in arguably the toughest league in the world and come home, to further his Irish hopes, yep makes perfect sense alright. :rolleyes:

.ak

Hagz wrote: »

I don't see why we would pick him. We have enough depth at scrum-half and Murray and Reddan are two good options. On top of that, it's unlikely that he will be picked given that he is playing abroad. Same reason we are unlikely to see Sheridan get capped until he comes back over here.

After Murray we have two aging scrumhalves who probably have one season left in them. Then there's Marmion, who's unproven at any level over Pro12 really. We're very light in that area. Someone like Hart would be ideal, also he's potentially French qualified soon (or already?) so I'd rather he got an Irish cap than a French one.

ScissorPaperRock

Hagz wrote: »

I don't see why we would pick him. We have enough depth at scrum-half and Murray and Reddan are two good options. On top of that, it's unlikely that he will be picked given that he is playing abroad. Same reason we are unlikely to see Sheridan get capped until he comes back over here.

That's not really an argument, tbh. The likeliness of whether or not he will be picked has no bearing on whether or not he should be picked.


I think we should definitely have a look at him. We're a small country with a small player pool. We can't afford to be so picky when we spot some talent that is available to us.

Hagz

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

That's not really an argument, tbh. The likeliness of whether or not he will be picked has no bearing on whether or not he should be picked.

I never said anything to the contrary.

AngeGal

.ak wrote: »

Then there's Marmion, who's unproven at any level over Pro12 really. We're very light in that area. Someone like Hart would be ideal, also he's potentially French qualified soon (or already?) so I'd rather he got an Irish cap than a French one.

Marmion has been Man of the Match against Sarries and away to Toulouse in the Heineken cup. Think he's well proved himself at that level and hasn't yet had the opportunity to prove himself at international level.

Not really a fan of giving someone a cap or two to ensure they are available, it's something the All Blacks do alot, there's a host of players who have one or two caps for them who would otherwise have had long international careers at other countries, making their sides more competitive and therefore improving the global standard of the game, playing at World cups, etc.,

If Schmidt sees him as a long term option, by all means bring him in but don't just give the kid one or two caps so France can't use. Although I suppose in all likelihood if he is good enough to win caps for France he will win as many with Ireland.

rrpc

AngeGal wrote: »

Not really a fan of giving someone a cap or two to ensure they are available, it's something the All Blacks do alot, there's a host of players who have one or two caps for them who would otherwise have had long international careers at other countries, making their sides more competitive and therefore improving the global standard of the game, playing at World cups, etc.,

That's more likely to happen with France than it is with Ireland tbh. France could give him a cap and he might never see another game with them. There's no shortage of good French scrumhalves, just PSA doesn't know who they are.

jacothelad

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

ya he should have stayed in Ireland and played ammeter rugby!

That's almost shocking.......

rrpc

jacothelad wrote: »

That's almost shocking.......

Powerful stuff from UMSE


But measured...

Yeah_Right

AngeGal wrote: »

Not really a fan of giving someone a cap or two to ensure they are available, it's something the All Blacks do alot, there's a host of players who have one or two caps for them who would otherwise have had long international careers at other countries, making their sides more competitive and therefore improving the global standard of the game, playing at World cups, etc.,

What are you talking?? That doesn't happen!!! Name one.

its_phil

.ak wrote: »

After Murray we have two aging scrumhalves who probably have one season left in them. Then there's Marmion, who's unproven at any level over Pro12 really. We're very light in that area. Someone like Hart would be ideal, also he's potentially French qualified soon (or already?) so I'd rather he got an Irish cap than a French one.

Seriously? you realise Marmion has been playing Heineken Cup for the past two years?

While Hart, a good player, hasn't played HC?

connemara man

Hart seems the type of Scrum Half that would work well with Madigan a Petit General inside him would work well with his style imo

freyners

.ak wrote: »

After Murray we have two aging scrumhalves who probably have one season left in them. Then there's Marmion, who's unproven at any level over Pro12 really. We're very light in that area. Someone like Hart would be ideal, also he's potentially French qualified soon (or already?) so I'd rather he got an Irish cap than a French one.

2 HC MOTM this season not proof that he is, at the very very least, a HC level

EDIT: didnt see phil's or AngeGal's comments, seems its been brought up, never mind

accidentprone1

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

ya he should have stayed in Ireland and played ammeter rugby!

He would have been in electric form, certainly.

Edit: Damn, late to the pun party.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

haha, that was a typo. I'm dim but not that dim!

.ak

its_phil wrote: »

Seriously? you realise Marmion has been playing Heineken Cup for the past two years?

While Hart, a good player, hasn't played HC?

I never said anything about Hart.

I was just outlining our other options.

Marmion plays in the HC by default, but I wouldn't class him as HC standard imo. He's a great player, but still quite unproven IMO.

.ak

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

haha, that was a typo. I'm dim but not that dim!

Jesus the puns keep coming.

freyners

.ak wrote: »

I never said anything about Hart.

I was just outlining our other options.

Marmion plays in the HC by default, but I wouldn't class him as HC standard imo. He's a great player, but still quite unproven IMO.

not quite following your logic here. Yes Connacht are playing their by default but I don't see how that matters? As said before, hes been judged the best player on the field against Sarries and Toulouse. Anytime hes gone against Reddan (dont think he has been head to head v Boss or Murray yet) he has decisively won the head to head. Unproven above Pro 12 is a very harsh term to be using. At international level yes, anything else no

siltirocker

.ak wrote: »

I never said anything about Hart.

I was just outlining our other options.

Marmion plays in the HC by default, but I wouldn't class him as HC standard imo. He's a great player, but still quite unproven IMO.

Really??? Again, he was MOTM against Sarries and Toulouse. And was pretty feckin' awesome in one or two of the other games.

He's also scored every fifth Connacht try this year. Which is a nice stat for a SH.

[Jackass]

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

haha, that was a typo. I'm dim but not that dim!

I do them all the time and HATE being called out for them!! :pac:

RE Hart, I'm absolutely gutted that he's signed on for 3 or 4 more years with Grenoble. Of course nobody should have any issue with him going abroad, he actually wasn't a special player at schools level and was pre-academy at Leinster and wasn't offered a development spot and had already spent time in France playing rugby (a year in Toulouse, not the Top14 side Toulouse though), so Jackman obviously got wind of him through Leinster and invited him over and the rest is history. (They were ProD2 back then).

The fact that he developed so quickly and so much is a testament to the work they've done with him at Grenoble a lot more than it is a case of a player "slipping through the net", as he was looked at closely and deemed not good enough.

If anything, it's another example of there being absolutely no substitute for game time and playing decent opposition, Conor Murray being another prime example of that. It's what frustrates when you see some extremely talented young players at provinces waiting so long to get opportunities.

From what I've seen of Hart, I definitely think he should tour in the summer along with Marmion and Cooney. We need to develop alternatives to Murray and those are three young fellas who've shown a lot of promise.

As for bringing him back to Ireland, sadly I've given up that prospect for many years at least.

its_phil

.ak wrote: »

I never said anything about Hart.

I was just outlining our other options.

Marmion plays in the HC by default, but I wouldn't class him as HC standard imo. He's a great player, but still quite unproven IMO.

What is HC standard if you are picking up MOTM vs Saracens and Toulouse and playing Yachvili off the park as a novice the year before?

Is Jordi Murphy not HC standard, seen as he has started one game?

.ak

its_phil wrote: »

What is HC standard if you are picking up MOTM vs Saracens and Toulouse and playing Yachvili off the park as a novice the year before?

Is Jordi Murphy not HC standard, seen as he has started one game?

I wouldn't say Jordi is HC standard.

One swallow etc., etc.

I would view it this way. Would Marmion make the 1st team on any of the teams in the quarters? Honestly? I think he's a great talent, but he's not there yet.

Riskymove

.ak wrote: »

I would view it this way. Would Marmion make the 1st team on any of the teams in the quarters? Honestly? I think he's a great talent, but he's not there yet.

is this the new standard then? It keeps moving? :pac:

There are players in the Ireland Squad who wouldn't displace their counterparts in the Quarterfinal teams so I am not sure how relevant this is

irishbucsfan

Riskymove wrote: »

is this the new standard then? It keeps moving? :pac:

There are players in the Ireland Squad who wouldn't displace their counterparts in the Quarterfinal teams so I am not sure how relevant this is

Most of the guys in the squad will be starting in the quarterfinals!

Says I To Bridey

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Leinster didn't offer him a deal then where could he go? He's be a bencher behind Murray and Pienaar. Is he really going to step down to a struggling Connacht when he is part of a developing Grenoble side who have gone from a ProD2 team to Top14 playoff contenders in three seasons?

There is no evidence to suggest that picking Irish players abroad will entice players to leave. O'Brien, Heaslip and Murray all stayed despite offers. It's not comparable to Wales where top players are on less money and playing for uncompetitive/poorly run teams.

If he's not good enough to get a game with one of the provinces he's surely not good enough for the national team.
While there's no evidence, I'm sure it'd be some disincentive if you were putting your international ambitions in jeapordy. Copeland specifically said he rang Joe Schmidt about moving back to Ireland and Schmidt advised him if he wants to maximise his chances of getting picked for the Irish team he should move back

stephen_n wrote: »

What disruption are you referring to?

Have you not been following Ireland this six nations at all?

stephen_n wrote: »

So with no clubs here offering him either a starting place or a contract, he should turn down the three year contract on offer from the club giving plenty of first team start time, in arguably the toughest league in the world and come home, to further his Irish hopes, yep makes perfect sense alright. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Riskymove

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Most of the guys in the squad will be starting in the quarterfinals!

as we currently have three teams there that isn't surprising....but that isn't exactly what I inferred