Lets Talk Solar - opinions please!

ltdslipdiff

This crowd claim they can heat your home from Solar Tubes..... I'm sceptical, surely at some point the physical size of your house and/or the insulation quality is going to come in to play and render the system inadequate?

I am not affiliated in any way, just got stopped in Clonmel Shopping centre by a respectable enough man who proceeded to promise the moon on a stick with this system. I knew enough about solar systems to phase him a bit and he backed off on the bull**** ! I'm still very curious and will be getting a call from these guys I'm sure...

www.letstalksolar.ie

Gest

ltdslipdiff wrote: »

This crowd claim they can heat your home from Solar Tubes..... I'm sceptical, surely at some point the physical size of your house and/or the insulation quality is going to come in to play and render the system inadequate?

I am not affiliated in any way, just got stopped in Clonmel Shopping centre by a respectable enough man who proceeded to promise the moon on a stick with this system. I knew enough about solar systems to phase him a bit and he backed off on the bull**** ! I'm still very curious and will be getting a call from these guys I'm sure...

www.letstalksolar.ie

The case studies part of the website seems to be empty?? Couldn't find a price either??

ltdslipdiff

Yeah saw that,they have a good few fairly well edited installation videos with the traditional happy customers shaking hands and waving-off the well-dressed installers ! I'm curious to see what the average installation cost will be.....watch this space!

corkgsxr

Most hot water systems barely work in Ireland. Id love to see how this fairs

Billy Bunting

Here today gone tomorrow !

MOTM

corkgsxr wrote: »

Most hot water systems barely work in Ireland. Id love to see how this fairs

There's a sweeping statement. What do you mean by "hot water systems" and how have you quantified your assertion. Bear in mind that a well designed solar heating system in Ireland will heat 50-60% of your hot water for the year. Above that, its dimishing returns.

Regarding "lets talk solar" ask them to back it up with test figures based on european standards and DEAP/PHPP calculations before you buy.

corkgsxr

MOTM wrote: »

There's a sweeping statement. What do you mean by "hot water systems" and how have you quantified your assertion. Bear in mind that a well designed solar heating system in Ireland will heat 50-60% of your hot water for the year. Above that, its dimishing returns.

Regarding "lets talk solar" ask them to back it up with test figures based on european standards and DEAP/PHPP calculations before you buy.

Most solar hot water systems.

Yes they work if well designed. Most arent well designed or well installed. In my opinion from the amount iv seen.

Billy Bunting

Just how many days is the FAS "training coarse" for Solar these days ?

corkgsxr

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Just how many days is the FAS "training coarse" for Solar these days ?

Instructor told me you can skip the first evening or 2 if your a plumber as its spent showing how to make different types of fittings.

Most people dont realise alot of systems use the immersion or gas to top up the heat by a certain time if its not up to temperature.

Brilliant if you buy a house and its fitted but I wouldn't retrofit. Just never pays off.

MOTM

corkgsxr wrote: »

Most solar hot water systems.

Yes they work if well designed. Most arent well designed or well installed. In my opinion from the amount iv seen.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Idunno

I got it installed last March from LTS. Does great job heating the water.I expect to have constant hot water from mid Feb to mid Oct. After that need top up the water temp with gas boiler to bring it from warm to hot. No central heating...simply wouldn't be viable.

garyh3

Well calls the guys in from Lets Talk Solar.... I already have solar tubes for hot water so wanted to see what this can do.

Well after about an hr of blurb he came at me with a figure of 21,000 :eek: then with discount 16,000

So that what there costing for the unit and that is not a boiler upgrade. Just the System

Cheers

Xantia

I have seen ones made for a lot cheaper, so shop around

esox28

And how exactly are they proposing to generate central heating from solar thermal?

I haven't looked into this in much detail, but from the get go a costing of €21000 -16000 you'd be getting a roof full of solar tube combined with possibly 3/4 of a ton of central heating water of which will be placed on the first floor or attic (madness).
Looking at there web site no system details, ie cylinder spec or those this new magic central heating need a back heat source....i should hope not at 16k.

Questions as a home owner should ask...

What is the max load of solar thermal my truss roof will support?

What lift is generated to the roof bolts on 10*mtrs of solar tube @ wind speed of 100km/hr?

Will my 7"x2" floor joice support 750ltrs buffer tank?

Just something to think about!

garyh3

Hi There 300 cylinder is split into two areas one for the Central heating and one for the hot water. They way there guys was talking was that the boiler would be constantly topping up the temperature when it dropped below X degrees. I would only save 400 euros per year max with this system. Which would give a buy back of 20+ years. I like the system but the cost would be too much. Would much rather externally lag the house for that price.

They said 5 panels would be put up into the roof. I currently have 3.

Gary

air

Can we put this rubbish to bed.
Solar central heating is not viable in this country - or any other one really.

Sure you might get a bit of heat to take the chill off in early Autumn or late Spring but in the winter when you want heat, there is very little there to capture.
You can have flat plate, evacuated tubes, thermo dynamic or any other kind of buzz word panels, it just doesn't work. If the energy isn't there then it can't be captured - by any technology.

The only possible exception is if you install a seasonal store to capture heat in the summer and reuse it in the winter, this is not viable for 99% of users and I've never seen it offered here by any company anyway.

It would be a far better use of your money to go to the Canaries for 3 months every winter for as long as your "solar central heating" budget lasts.
Seriously though, if you want to spend the money, use it on insulation and then a heat pump perhaps if you still have some left.

fleet

Can you show they maths?

I have it installed (came with house) and will not have to heat hot water for showers for washing from March through October.

MOTM

fleet wrote: »

Can you show they maths?

I have it installed (came with house) and will not have to heat hot water for showers for washing from March through October.

Have you installed it for space heating or water heating only? Air is talking about space heating above.

SolarHome.ie

Can it be done? Yes. Can it give the returns claimed absolutely not! I have called to houses after these sales men had visited and what they were proposing was lunacy. It's all a sales pitch
They maintain to be Ireland's only installer of solar central heating systems not true either!
Solar central heating can be done in Ireland, you should expect 20/25% savings on the central heating costs exclusively from the solar panels and 70/75%on your hot water costs. The most cost effective way of installing these systems is in conjunction with a thermal store or combination cylinder. It is best installed in a home with a back boiler, but here is the important part... the backboiler stove should be located in the area of the house that is most commonly used during the day time of winter months. So when you get up in the morning you light your stove this heats this area of the house during the day the additional heat generated in the backboiler is sent to the therm store cylinder, this continues during the day and the temperature of the thermal store cylinder could reach 75c. This water is effectively stored in the cylinder until you need it. Later in the evening instead of turning on your oil boiler you turn on a circulating pump this takes the water from the thermal store and pumps it's into your radiators in the parts of the house that need to be heated later in the evening (TV room, hall and bedrooms. If set up properly you can eliminate usage of your oil boiler with the solar panels heating the thermal store cylinder from around mid march to mid October so your central heating and hot water will come from the solar panels. From mid October to mid march the solar panels will pre heat the water in the thermal store and the stove backboiler heats it the rest of the way. The oil boiler is also there as a back up but should really be required. You will stillgave a fuel bill (fuel for the stove) but it will be greatly reduced. My experience is that if your oil bill was €2000/ annum and immersion heater for hot water from April to September this should reduce to €600 for coal, timber or turf and no immersion or electric shower costs. The cost of these systems for a retro fit should be about €10 exc vat (which is tax deductable as part of the government home improvement scheme) and a grant of €800 from the renewable energy grant from SEAI

diegroblers

garyh3 wrote: »

I would only save 400 euros per year max with this system. Which would give a buy back of 20+ years. I like the system but the cost would be too much. Would much rather externally lag the house for that price.

They said 5 panels would be put up into the roof. I currently have 3.

Gary

Yes, it is way to much for the amount you'd be saving; at €400 a year, it would take you 40 years to offset €16 000.

air wrote: »

Can we put this rubbish to bed.
Solar central heating is not viable in this country - or any other one really.

Works in any country that doesn't have winter rainfall, with other words, the whole of the Southern Hemisphere.

SolarHome.ie

Hi Diegroblers
That is very possible. Typically a house 2000sq feet has an oil bill of €2000 and electric water heating bill for summer. This should reduce to a €600 solid fuel bill for both central heating and hot water, saving €1400/annum. When you take the vat rebate and grant into account a house of this size would have there money back in 7-8years if you can have a system installed for €10000+vat. Some of the facts and figures being mentioned to me when I was stopped at a show recently were crazy and when now I hear prices of €16000! I suppose some has to pay the salesmen their commission!

ccsolar

SolarHome.ie wrote: »

Hi Diegroblers
That is very possible. Typically a house 2000sq feet has an oil bill of €2000 and electric water heating bill for summer. This should reduce to a €600 solid fuel bill for both central heating and hot water, saving €1400/annum. When you take the vat rebate and grant into account a house of this size would have there money back in 7-8years if you can have a system installed for €10000+vat. Some of the facts and figures being mentioned to me when I was stopped at a show recently were crazy and when now I hear prices of €16000! I suppose some has to pay the salesmen their commission!

Hi
Just need some clarification on 1 or 2 points here
You say that ...
This should reduce to a €600 solid fuel bill for both central heating and hot water, saving €1400/annum. When you take the vat rebate and grant into account a house of this size would have there money back in 7-8years if you can have a system installed for €10000+vat.

I wasn't aware that you could combine the vat rebate and solar grant together as 1 , surely that means your getting a grant twice for this work which is not possible.

Also it's not feasible for people to install stoves in their homes unless they have a free supply of solid fuel (basically they need to have a bit of bog) as some of the larger stoves required to heat a house cost over €50 a week to run.
Despite what some people think, solid fuel is not free and the cost of harvesting, labour,transport, all need to be calculated into the equation
Would they not be better to spend their money on
1. Cavity insulation
2. Solar for domestic hot water
3. High efficiency oil boiler and heating control upgrade.
Cc
http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Better_energy_homes/Better_Energy_FAQ/Homeowner%20FAQ/

SallyJ12

I wouldn't say it's worth it to be frank. I'm a fan of solar lights, but that's as far as I would go. I order mine from spvlights.com a year ago and they're still going strong and it only cost £20. You don't need to be a maths genius to work out it's economically viable, but investing £16k and waiting 20 yrs+ for a return and that's not to say it will work for that long!

dathi

SolarHome.ie wrote: »

. So when you get up in the morning you light your stove this heats this area of the house during the day the additional heat generated in the backboiler is sent to the therm store cylinder, this continues during the day . . From mid October to mid march the solar panels will pre heat the water in the cylinder I

this is b ul**** how can the solar pre heat water that has already been heated by lighting the fire every morning

ccsolar

dathi wrote: »

this is b ul**** how can the solar pre heat water that has already been heated by lighting the fire every morning

Hi Daithi
The stove is connected to the middle coil in the tank which would then heat the top half of the tank.
Solar is connected to the bottom of the tank and any heat that is produced from the bottom of the tank rises.
It cannot be argued that the stove heats below it's coil as heat will only rise within the tank.
If the solar is pre-heating the tank then your stove will switch to the central heating quicker as it will take less time to heat the tank resulting in a saving on solid fuel.

Cc

dathi

ccsolar wrote: »

Hi Daithi
The stove is connected to the middle coil in the tank which would then heat the top half of the tank.
Solar is connected to the bottom of the tank and any heat that is produced from the bottom of the tank rises.
It cannot be argued that the stove heats below it's coil as heat will only rise within the tank.
If the solar is pre-heating the tank then your stove will switch to the central heating quicker as it will take less time to heat the tank resulting in a saving on solid fuel.

Cc

this tread was discussing lets talk solar , lets talk solar use a fusion elite thermal store, this has the solar coil at the bottom and as its a thermal store it heats all the water with the stove, not the top half. the post i was replying to was also advocating using a thermal store hence my reply . yours dathi

roger82

has anyone out there got the complete system installed?

thomasm

I know someone who has this and they are very happy with the system. They have constant hot water and the heating of the house is primarily covered by the system. They have gone from 2-3 tanks of Oil per year to under 1. Cost is high though. Think they also got nearly 2k back with grants bringing the cost down.

Slieve

Spoke to a guy who got it installed and he has cut his oil bill by €1550 per year. He claims it does what it is supposed to do, his house remains at a constant temperature and also hot water. I am meeting a Rep next week for a chat about it and am thinking strongly about getting it. I need to do something as oil is just too deer.

danmanw8

The basics here are that solar works great in Ireland when the sun shines.
Great for keeping water heating costs down in the Summer.

Problem with this whole system is, when you need the heat most is when the sun doesn't shine.

Don't waste your money!

Slieve

It does not work on sun light, it works on day light.....so it works even on a cloudy day. I can only go on what someone who has it installed has said...and he is very happy with the system.

Mannin

Has there been any new information on 'Lets Talk Solar' users in the past year?

Has anyone any updated information?

I am considering installing it altho hesitant because of the capital cost.

Slieve

I have paid the deposit and am due to get it in in 2 weeks. I'll post an update.

Mannin

Great, Thanks.
What has your experience dealing with them? Were u offered a discount to become a reference customer?
I have checked their website where it says Accreditations BUT when i check the relevant sites 'Lets Talk Solar ' is not listed on any of them as far as I can determine.
Ritter Solar Germany has the TUV Certs may be worth checking.

Slieve

They have been very good so far to deal with. I was offered a discount to become a reference customer. I sourced someone who got it in myself...not from them...and he is very happy with the system. His oil bill has dropped from €2000 a year to €450. They sent me various certificates from people they are accredited with..I just don't have them to hand.

Slieve

Was supposed to get it in last week but I had to postpone as I couldn't be there to let them in so i will be getting it at a date to be decided.

Raghallaigh

Slieve wrote: »

Was supposed to get it in last week but I had to postpone as I couldn't be there to let them in so i will be getting it at a date to be decided.

Just wondering if you've had the system installed and if you have any feedback. I had the sales guy out with me last week to walk me through the system. I was a little put off by the pricing and the lack of info on the system in the public domain.

Slieve

It will be in early January now before I will be getting it installed

mark_18tp

basically its solar connected to maxi pod thermal store.
cant see it taking off.

downside of thermal store is once you have a number of showers/baths the thermal store will cool down. solar won't heat it up that fast so therefore your oil and gas will need to back it up.

your solar will basically keep your thermal store at temperature until your demand of hot water / heating happens.

mark_18tp

another thing is, who is going to say once its installed at a cost of 10,000 are going to say its a waste of money, you will see them with a blue rope before the admit to that.

johnathan1975

So the CEO of lets talk solar has stated on radio when asked about the cost to install....

he says that the cost depends on the existing condition of the house, he is basically stating that if your house has a low energy rating the cost to install and run this system will be very expensive, he mentioned 24K. He has stated that it will take 8-10 years to see a return. I would likely say that you will never see a return until you improve your energy rating.

I ask the question, what is the point in installing this system if your hours has a low energy rating, the energy just goes out the door irrespective of what you do. This system still requires oil to back up the system, so if the house has a low energy rating are you not better off spending your money on improving your existing BER rating.

this may be a good system if you have an A rated house, to achieve an A rating you are looking to spend thousands. this system would work for a new build as a add on to achieving an A rated home, big commitment.

johnathan1975

on lets talk solar, they DISPLAY a number of logs on their web site, for example SEI, Sustainable Energy Ireland, however they don't actually state that lets talk solar is accredited by the authority?

Wearb

I was in an A (not too sure I agree with that claim, but it is close to it) rated house over Christmas. Owner told me he spent €10,000 over and above building reg requirements on insulation incl window upgrade. (He bought windows with increased glazing gap). There were 6 adults and a child and three dogs there. That group was enough to make the large room we were in too warm. So no heating required. It was about 3 or 4°C outside.

My point is, to be wary of heating claims. A couple if candles would heat a well insulated room. Get the balance right between insulation and cost of heating.

Don't spend €100,000 on insulation to save €50,000 on heating over your lifetime. Neither scrimp on €10,000 on insulation that will save you €20,000 over your lifetime. That is what I mean by getting the balance right.

Was looking at new Aldi brochure with two electric heaters. One 1500W the other 400W. To read the brochure, you would think that the 400W one would give out as much heat as the 1500 one. The 400 one looks great, but only gives out 25% of the other one, no matter how well you doll up its description.

johnathan1975

Hi Wearb

thanks for the post, this is exactly what I am talking about. If you listen to their CEO James Gorham on radio he does not commit to any cost for this system. How do the general public gauge cost and efficiency.

he states that they will do a survey on the house to determine the system and cost, what is this survey based on?

he also states that you will make a return on your investment within a maximum of 7-10 years. he states that the longest he has seen on return is 8 years? how is this possible? the company was only formed in 2011.

how can you make a statement like this if the system depends on the existing condition of the home. Why do they not give an actual cost, what is the cost based on and what is the efficient of the system based on for the specific home?

what recourse has the owner if they don't get the pay back in the time prescribed by the CEO?

if you use solar to heat your home, but the home has a B, C, D, E energy rating, you will require the oil back up to keep the heat in the home. This system may cost 10-24k plus the oil to back it up, where is the savings?

they are stating 80 percent savings, where exactly is the saving? maybe on water, but any solar will give you this, they claim 50 percent on heat, maybe if the home is A rated. So you spend thousands on getting an A rated and this company charges you an additional 10-24 k to reduce the energy requirement by 80 percent. does not make sense.

Wearb

Glad to see you understood my point. There are lots of houses out there that I could easily reduce their heating bills by 50% or more,,,, if I could get them to spend thousands of euro on insulation and heating upgrades. But you have to weigh up costs against benefits.
I am not knocking modern technology, but you have to be careful of claims that don't stack up. Especially systems that don't have independent certification and testing under different conditions.

garyh3

This system would not be feasible with our house at the moment unless we externally lagged the house first. Its 9" block cavity with an insulated slab on the Inside. Its as breezy as hell under the skirting. I would rather spend the money on insulation and then look at heating upgrades.

oldtt

Fur coat and no knickers if you do this on a poorly rated house. And in truth, a highly rated house does not need 16-20k spent on your heating system!

Steps to lower bills,

1. Insulation (walls, roof), and windows-doors upgrade
2. Boiler and Controls Upgrade
3. Solar thermal/Solar PV

Nowhere in this would I suggest Solar for heating. My parents went from 3 fills a year, to 1 by doing steps 2 and 3. (1 was already done). Step 3 was a 3 panel flat plate system simply for their hot water.

I'm pretty skeptical about LTS, and this fusion stuff. Sounds like alot of jargon to me. Most of your hot water from March to October is as good as Solar Thermal gets by all accounts. Solar works, as the results above prove, but 16k-20k? 10k would get you a serious standard of #2 and 3 mentioned.

NIMAN

I would never consider solar panels with our weather, but I have considered getting a thermodynamic panel for HW.

galwaytt

...well my 1000l buffer was heated completely by solar yesterday, and by 9am was scorching again today. For me, solar DHW works.

oldtt

NIMAN wrote: »

I would never consider solar panels with our weather, but I have considered getting a thermodynamic panel for HW.

You'd be surprised. My parents don't use their boiler for 7 months in the year, with only a random top up here and there on a bad run of days during those months of March through October.

Thermodynamic is a heat pump, seen them in the ideal show, it works indoors and at night. Not a bad peice of kit. But having that hum in my hotpress, and the cost of running the electric needed to generate hot water in the winter and night don't inspire me. The hot water gotten off thermal is free. And mostly topped up when the boiler is already running efficiently in the winter months.

Anything that reduces bills is a winner, everyone's preference after that.

beertons

You don't notice the hum after a few days.