Feminism and the emasculation of men

lufties

I'm all for gender equality, but as a man I'm honestly getting a bit confused about a man's role in western society. back in the old dark ages, a fella looked after his lady and children and had a more dominant role in society. It's great to see women are more independent, but sometimes I can't help wondering have men become more emasculated and submissive. In my experience when a man is sexualised it is a big laugh generally with an undertone of 'you go girl', when it's the opposite the man is a pathetic sleaze. Also, when a woman is being rude or aggressive, men are expected to be sensitive to this. Sometimes it feels we're being shamed for simply just being male.
These are just some of my thoughts I felt worthy of discussion.
Also to add, this is not a anti-women thread, as I personally cherish and appreciate women with the upmost respect.

suicide_circus

when I was a young lad, I played with toy swords and footballs. raised by fascists so I was.

Muise...

lufties wrote: »

I'm all for gender equality, but as a man I'm honestly getting a bit confused about a man's role in western society. back in the old dark ages, a fella looked after his lady and children and had a more dominant role in society. It's great to see women are more independent, but sometimes I can't help wondering have men become more emasculated and submissive. In my experience when a man is sexualised it is a big laugh generally with an undertone of 'you go girl', when it's the opposite the man is a pathetic sleaze. Also, when a woman is being rude or aggressive, men are expected to be sensitive to this. Sometimes it feels we're being shamed for simply just being male.
These are just some of my thoughts I felt worthy of discussion.
Also to add, this is not a anti-women thread, as I personally cherish and appreciate women with the upmost respect.

Whatchu talkin bout Willis?

The Backwards Man

Anyone for scones? Just baked them there now, get 'em while they're hot!

catallus

What indeed.

It seems the OP has a pretty jaundiced view of women!

lufties

Muise... wrote: »

Whatchu talkin bout Willis?

willis

catallus

lufties wrote: »

willis

YipeeKaiYeh, mofo

lufties

lufties wrote: »

In my experience when a man is sexualised it is a big laugh generally with an undertone of 'you go girl'

Okay...

Links234

lufties wrote: »

It's great to see women are more independent, but sometimes I can't help wondering have men become more emasculated and submissive.

Equality isn't a zero sum game, if women are more independent, it's not taking away men's independence is it? So in what way are men becoming more emasculated and submissive?

lufties

catallus wrote: »

What indeed.

It seems the OP has a pretty jaundiced view of women!

Ah let the sniping and self-righteous sneering begin

catallus

lufties wrote: »

Ah let the sniping and self-righteous sneering begin

Its not sniping, Lufties, to point out that you seem to have a skewed perception of the way people interact with each other.

darkpagandeath

Anyone for a Diet coke ?

Spunge

Links234 wrote: »

Equality isn't a zero sum game, if women are more independent, it's not taking away men's independence is it? So in what way are men becoming more emasculated and submissive?

Sex changes ?

i kid.

Menas

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Anyone for a Diet coke ?

Only if you clean the glass afterwards.

catallus

Interesting article that I read last week somewhere on Diet Coke and Coke Zero, the way they are sometimes thought to be the same product, but DietCoke is not really coke at all (totally different recipe) and cokezero is the original recipe with no sugar but with more effective sweeteners added; there was much debate about how Zero is marketed at men while diet is marketed at women.

Tiddlypeeps

If you feel shame because you can no longer occupy an historically typical male bread winner role then that is an issue with you and your self worth. It is not women or feminism fault.

A woman having independence does not mean that men are submissive to her. That's a crazy association to make. Is it not possible to live in a world where nobody needs to be submissive to their partner?

Links234

Also, when people complain about the "emasculation" of men, it always raises my eyebrow.

Really, when you look at it, men today have a lot more freedom than previous generations to do what they want and act how they want freely, instead of subscribing to the notion of what a man should be. Guys can be sensitive, and show more emotion, fathers can be nurturing to their kids. Rather than being "emasculated" you could say that a lot of men are more free to be themselves, not every man is or wants to be a staunch lumberjack or otherwise stereotypically masculine charicature you know.

kunst nugget

Links234 wrote: »

So in what way are men becoming more emasculated and submissive?

We have to change nappies now. Back in the good old days we brought home the money so that the womenfolk could pop out a dozen or so babies so that the menfolk had a good excuse for going to the pub for a bit of peace and quiet. Now we have to sit and listen to women talk about their feelings and sh¡t and hear them bang on about wanting jobs and equality - can't they not be happy being looked after like good little lassies? Tits out for the lads is what I say!

kunst nugget

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

If you feel shame because you can no longer occupy an historically typical male bread winner role then that is an issue with you and your self worth. It is not women or feminism fault.

A woman having independence does not mean that men are submissive to her. That's a crazy association to make. Is it not possible to live in a world where nobody needs to be submissive to their partner?

But look at all the nice guys that can't get women. It's not the nice guy's fault that no women find them attractive. It's the women's fault ergo it's feminism's fault. Down with women!

I am pie

I'm waiting to be assigned a role in society, in the meantime sometimes I cook the dinner, sometimes the wife does it.

lufties

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

If you feel shame because you can no longer occupy an historically typical male bread winner role then that is an issue with you and your self worth. It is not women or feminism fault.

A woman having independence does not mean that men are submissive to her. That's a crazy association to make. Is it not possible to live in a world where nobody needs to be submissive to their partner?

Of course it is possible, but honestly, men are expected to pander to every whim and take any ****e that women throw at them.If not, they're labelled a chauvanist. Perhaps that's more true to life in the likes of the U.S though in fairness. I find sometimes in day to day life, It is not really accepted for a man to correct a woman for being rude, but god help you if it's the other way around.

endacl

Aw maaaan...

I don't have a wife. I pay the bills, and I do my own cooking, cleaning and laundry. What's my role?!? So confused.

Wish I hadn't opened this thread...

ShiftStorm

According to Wikipedia, feminism is "a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women." There is actually nothing in the standard definition of feminism about the emasculation of men. Some feminists might be extremist, hate men and want to emasculate them, but I've never met them - who are they and why should they get to represent the whole movement? Within every ideology, there is a spectrum. Most feminists you meet deeply respect and value men. Maybe if we see equal rights as a pie with a certain number of slices to go around, then improving women's rights takes away some slices of the rights pie from men. But why does it have to be a pie? (mmm pie) For example, there has been vast improvement in the area of employment law for women regarding maternity leave but still some way to go. For men, there should also be provision made for paternity leave like in Scandinavia. Would an improvement in men and women's rights in that area cancel each other out? No. It would actually make things a lot fairer for both. Sexism hurts everyone. And on your point about sexualisation: objectification of another human is a bad thing no matter what and dismissing a guy who has felt sexually objectified as a big laugh is just plain wrong.

FTA69

You're saying that men are now accepted to tolerate rudeness from women due to feminism. That's simply not the case and to be honest, you've got nothing of substance to back that up.

Feminism for the most part recognises the fact that women are on a lower social and economic step on the ladder than men are, and that that shouldn't be the case. A system where women aren't discriminated against or pigeon-holed is something to aspire to.

suicide_circus

Links234 wrote: »

Also, when people complain about the "emasculation" of men, it always raises my eyebrow.

Really, when you look at it, men today have a lot more freedom than previous generations to do what they want and act how they want freely, instead of subscribing to the notion of what a man should be. Guys can be sensitive, and show more emotion, fathers can be nurturing to their kids. Rather than being "emasculated" you could say that a lot of men are more free to be themselves, not every man is or wants to be a staunch lumberjack or otherwise stereotypically masculine charicature you know.

agree. the problem is that the macho thing has been in place for quite a long time...100, 000 plus years. it is deeply ingrained in the psyche of many men and has been the template for peoples fathers, great great great grandfathers etc. and while it may have white washed over feelings and sensitivity, it provided a kind of certainty about ones place and role in the world which was comforting to a lot of men.

In the grad scheme of things, the transition has been pretty fast and I dont think its all about men having a moan now. there is a certain vacuum and very few support structures in place for men to backup and help them in the new world order.

we must also remember that much of this is the preserve of western liberal societies and is non existent in many parts of the world.

Sh1tbag OToole

Feminism is an awful load of shyte. Sure nobody is opressing women around here anymore. Rebels without a cause is what they are

lufties

suicide_circus wrote: »

agree. the problem is that the macho thing has been in place for quite a long time...100, 000 plus years. it is deeply ingrained in the psyche of many men and has been the template for peoples fathers, great great great grandfathers etc. and while it may have white washed over feelings and sensitivity, it provided a kind of certainty about ones place and role in the world which was comforting to a lot of men.

In the grad scheme of things, the transition has been pretty fast and I dont think its all about men having a moan now. there is a certain vacuum and very few support structures in place for men to backup and help them in the new world order.

we must also remember that much of this is the preserve of western liberal societies and is non existent in many parts of the world.

There is actually a conspiracy that feminism was spearheaded by zionists so that women could be taxed in society rather than for something more noble.

Tiddlypeeps

lufties wrote: »

Of course it is possible, but honestly, men are expected to pander to every whim and take any ****e that women throw at them.If not, they're labelled a chauvanist. Perhaps that's more true to life in the likes of the U.S though in fairness. I find sometimes in day to day life, It is not really accepted for a man to correct a woman for being rude, but god help you if it's the other way around.

If someone labelled you chauvinist for calling a woman out on being rude then that person is an ass, plain and simple. Not sure why you feel the need to lash out at an entire gender and accuse them of emasculating you just because of the actions of that one person.

Unless of course your idea of being rude is not making you dinner when told too

Eoin247

somebody left the toilet seat up

lufties

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

If someone labelled you chauvinist for calling a woman out on being rude then that person is an ass, plain and simple. Not sure why you feel the need to lash out at an entire gender and accuse them of emasculating you just because of the actions of that one person.

Unless of course your idea of being rude is not making you dinner when told too

Ok i never lashed out firstly :rolleyes:,
I'm just speaking from experience. I suppose perhaps in some sense 'getting the girl', is not as easy these days, as women don't need/rely on men as much anymore. As a previous poster pointed out feninism and women's equality has all happened so quickly, there is no support structures for men and their new roles. Also, back in the dark ages women were considered more feminine. I can't imagine they were down the pub lewing pints in the pub or pissing in the streets(I say that light-heartedly )

lufties

lufties wrote: »

Ok i never lashed out firstly :rolleyes:,
I'm just speaking from experience. I suppose perhaps in some sense 'getting the girl', is not as easy these days, as women don't need/rely on men as much anymore. As a previous poster pointed out feninism and women's equality has all happened so quickly, there is no support structures for men and their new roles. Also, back in the dark ages women were considered more feminine. I can't imagine they were down the pub lewing pints in the pub or pissing in the streets(I say that light-heartedly )

What is it you want to see happen then?

Legs.Eleven

lufties wrote: »

Ok i never lashed out firstly :rolleyes:,
I'm just speaking from experience. I suppose perhaps in some sense 'getting the girl', is not as easy these days, as women don't need/rely on men as much anymore. As a previous poster pointed out feninism and women's equality has all happened so quickly, there is no support structures for men and their new roles. Also, back in the dark ages women were considered more feminine. I can't imagine they were down the pub lewing pints in the pub or pissing in the streets(I say that light-heartedly )

Light-hearted me hole, Lufties. *Passive aggressive smile*

FTA69

lufties wrote: »

I suppose perhaps in some sense 'getting the girl', is not as easy these days, as women don't need/rely on men as much anymore.

Women aren't yours to "get" though, they're people who can make their own decisions on whoever they want to be with. The fact that women are less oppressed than they were in the past doesn't mean that men are now being screwed over.

There is actually a conspiracy that feminism was spearheaded by zionists so that women could be taxed in society rather than for something more noble

Jesus Christ almighty.

FTA69

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Feminism is an awful load of shyte. Sure nobody is opressing women around here anymore. Rebels without a cause is what they are

What percentage of the parliament are women? Why do women on average earn less than men for similar work? Why are women under-represented for promotion in the professions? Why is maternity constantly seen as a barrier for a woman's career? Why is domestic violence still prevalent?

lufties

Deleted User wrote: »

What is it you want to see happen then?

honestly I'm not really sure,Perhaps less crap from feminists and more respect and less disdain for men in society.

kunst nugget

lufties wrote: »

Ok i never lashed out firstly :rolleyes:,
I'm just speaking from experience. I suppose perhaps in some sense 'getting the girl', is not as easy these days, as women don't need/rely on men as much anymore. As a previous poster pointed out feninism and women's equality has all happened so quickly, there is no support structures for men and their new roles. Also, back in the dark ages women were considered more feminine. I can't imagine they were down the pub lewing pints in the pub or pissing in the streets(I say that light-heartedly )

Ah fádo, fádo back in the rare auld times when men were men and women were gentle creatures prone to fainting and tainting the ground with their menstrual blood and people wouldn't bat an eyelid if I put me pint of Guinness on the top of the coffin of my consumption-riddled child because we all showed each other a bit of respect. Grrreat days!

danniemcq

Links234 wrote: »

Also, when people complain about the "emasculation" of men, it always raises my eyebrow.

Really, when you look at it, men today have a lot more freedom than previous generations to do what they want and act how they want freely, instead of subscribing to the notion of what a man should be. Guys can be sensitive, and show more emotion, fathers can be nurturing to their kids. Rather than being "emasculated" you could say that a lot of men are more free to be themselves, not every man is or wants to be a staunch lumberjack or otherwise stereotypically masculine charicature you know.

i agree with most of your points but i'd like to point out things like ads or fashion trends, in much the same way women are constantly barraged with the supermodel figure that they all must have or whatnot guys too also are under pressure (at times)

Some examples would be manbags, mancara or the need to be cleanshaven and must require the most sensative after skin protection for when you shave for the 20th time today.

Now if you want to wear any of that then grand i'm not critising you but several times my ma has bought me clothes that are in and trendy, these include pink shirts, a manbag as big as a suitcase really oh and lets not forget the pink tshirt with yellow glitter on it. She didn't buy these cause she thought i'd like them but she wanted me to be fashionable and sure everyone is wearing them these days.

Again no issue with people wearing what they want its when they feel they have to wear something, although that arguement could be used for many different topics.

beano345

"The fact that women are less oppressed than they were in the past doesn't mean that men are now being screwed over."

In fairness divorce screws men over

Muise...

lufties wrote: »

honestly I'm not really sure,Perhaps less crap from feminists and more respect and less disdain for men in society.

Feminists want less crap from the likes of you and more respect and less disdain for women in society.

lufties

FTA69 wrote: »

What percentage of the parliament are women? Why do women on average earn less than men for similar work? Why are women under-represented for promotion in the professions? Why is maternity constantly seen as a barrier for a woman's career? Why is domestic violence still prevalent?

Domestic violence happens to men too in case you didn't know. Women in parliament? Mary harney, hanafin and coughlan..enough said.

lufties

lufties wrote: »

Domestic violence happens to men too in case you didn't know. Women in parliament? Mary harney, hanafin and coughlan..enough said.

Then go campaign against it instead of bitching about how women are everything that's wrong with your life

crockholm

Sweden seems to have a lot of women in Parliament.Tampons are cheap,alcohol is expensive. Damn Feminists

Links234

DannieHasABrazilian wrote: »

i agree with most of your points but i'd like to point out things like ads or fashion trends, in much the same way women are constantly barraged with the supermodel figure that they all must have or whatnot guys too also are under pressure (at times)

Some examples would be manbags, mancara or the need to be cleanshaven and must require the most sensative after skin protection for when you shave for the 20th time today.

Now if you want to wear any of that then grand i'm not critising you but several times my ma has bought me clothes that are in and trendy, these include pink shirts, a manbag as big as a suitcase really oh and lets not forget the pink tshirt with yellow glitter on it. She didn't buy these cause she thought i'd like them but she wanted me to be fashionable and sure everyone is wearing them these days.

Again no issue with people wearing what they want its when they feel they have to wear something, although that arguement could be used for many different topics.

No disagreement with there, I get enough of it from my mum that I should put more of an effort in, wear nice dresses and makeup, and gives out to me that I'm "ruining my face" with piercings. I'm far more comfortable in jeans, t-shirts and doc martens thanks!

lufties

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Light-hearted me hole, Lufties. *Passive aggressive smile*

That's your opinion legs.

lufties

lufties wrote: »

honestly I'm not really sure,Perhaps less crap from feminists and more respect and less disdain for men in society.

OK specifically - what crap from feminists? and where do men need more respect within society?

If you're going to start a thread like this then you're going to have to back it up.

lufties

bluewolf wrote: »

Then go campaign against it instead of bitching about how women are everything that's wrong with your life

when did I once say that?

kunst nugget

lufties wrote: »

Women in parliament? Mary harney, hanafin and coughlan..enough said.

Ah ffs, if you're going to pick just 3 politicians to prove your argument, you should pick three that actually presently have seats.

Muise...

FTA69 wrote: »

What percentage of the parliament are women? Why do women on average earn less than men for similar work? Why are women under-represented for promotion in the professions? Why is maternity constantly seen as a barrier for a woman's career? Why is domestic violence still prevalent?

Because it is. If you accept that, you'll find it answers your questions on average pay and promotion.

SEPT 23 1989

Men seem to be portrayed as total idiots in advertising today.if you were to reverse the roles in many of the ads you see and hear they would not be allowed on the air

the_monkey

The OP is spot on, the white heterosexual male aged 18-40 is the only member of society left the media can take the piss out of without a backlash.

Anyone else it's sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist ... etc..

-Back on topic, just some things I notice look at any TV show where there is a trivial competition between men and women - the women will ALWAYS win, again pressure by the BS feminist PC brigade.

Even kids shows can take the piss out of men and have everyone laughing at the idiot daddy cos he's such a muddled fool - imagine they did the same about mammy ?? UPROAR.

WTA (women's tennis association) moaning for years for equal pay in Wimbledon - finally they gave in under pressure and being bullied because they were being sexist pigs for not paying them the same money FOR LESS tennis - they play best of 3 sets, while men play best of 5.

They should have agreed but changed it to best of 5 set matches.

pablo128

FTA69 wrote: »

What percentage of the parliament are women? Why do women on average earn less than men for similar work? Why are women under-represented for promotion in the professions? Why is maternity constantly seen as a barrier for a woman's career? Why is domestic violence still prevalent?

How many women are plumbers, carpenters, electricians, builders? All good paying jobs.
Every time a job is advertised in our place, a warehouse, we get thousands of cv's emailed in. Guess how many are from women. None.
You can't have it both ways.