should RnaG be closed down ?

an o rak

I think it should and the FM space sold to the highest bidder. As a replacement i suggest 5 or 6 hours per day of Irish language programs on lw 252.

Too Tough To Die

Nah, it's nice to hear the language on the radio.

stereomatic

A bizarre notion this station is nearly 42 years old and provides a vital service for Irish speakers and to get rid off a radio station does not mean a "good" radio station will replace it whether it is local. regional or national.

lertsnim

an o rak wrote: »

I think it should and the FM space sold to the highest bidder. As a replacement i suggest 5 or 6 hours per day of Irish language programs on lw 252.

Stupid idea.

hfallada

Isn't there another Irish spreading
Speaking radio station. Plus rte radio one also has news in Irish for some reason even through there is RnaG. There is no national radio station that any under the age of 25 would listen. 2fm isn't listened to by any young people.

A majority of Irish speakers speak English any way. It's not reasonable for them to listen to English speaking radio

Infoanon

It will never happen (and ultimately DAB or the internet will resolve the issue)

However to answer the question - the listenership figures for RnaG are extremely low and its talk format would be better suited to AM - so there is an arguement for the 4th FM network to be put to better use and RnaG moved to AM or DAB only - like it used to be back in the 80s.

lertsnim

hfallada wrote: »

Isn't there another Irish spreading
Speaking radio station. Plus rte radio one also has news in Irish for some reason even through there is RnaG. There is no national radio station that any under the age of 25 would listen. 2fm isn't listened to by any young people.

A majority of Irish speakers speak English any way. It's not reasonable for them to listen to English speaking radio

What is this other Irish language speaking station that you refer to? Checking the dial I only find one, unless you are on about a local station.

The last thing anybody needs is another pop music channel.

Elmo

Radio RiRa is available, kind of.

No RnaG should not be closed down. It doesn't have any effect on commercial services. It is unlikely that a new English language speaking service from a commercial provider would survive in the current market.

Yes Irish speakers also speak English. Is it unreasonable for them to get Irish language services?

2 National commercial Services (Today FM, NewsTalk)
1 Multi City commercial service (4fm)
3 Regional services (I-Radio, Beat FM and Spin FM)

IMO RnaG should not be part of RTÉ.

OldRio

hfallada wrote: »

Isn't there another Irish spreading
Speaking radio station. Plus rte radio one also has news in Irish for some reason even through there is RnaG. There is no national radio station that any under the age of 25 would listen. 2fm isn't listened to by any young people.

A majority of Irish speakers speak English any way. It's not reasonable for them to listen to English speaking radio

What on earth has that got to do with closing a radio station down?
Have you the data to back that claim?
Did you canvas everyone under 25?

lertsnim

Elmo wrote: »

Radio RiRa is available, kind of.

Where?

Elmo

lertsnim wrote: »

Where?

On Line > On Digital > On St. Paddy's Week it gets a temp licence! in Dublin!

hfallada

OldRio wrote: »

What on earth has that got to do with closing a radio station down?
Have you the data to back that claim?
Did you canvas everyone under 25?

http://www.bai.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/201310_PressRelease-October_PK.pdf

Page 4 of this PDF states that only 12% of 15-24 year olds listen to any RTE station. But 77% of people aged 15-24 listen to radio. That is embarrassing that only a eighth of young listen to the state broadcaster. I imagine the figure is signifcantly higher for the BBC.

There is also a second irish radio station in Dublin City

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raidi%C3%B3_Na_Life

Elmo

It is called choice. If the yuff of today want to listen to their local regional poptastic channel then that is what the yuff of today should do.

Or RTÉ could hire the head of yuff regional radio to be their new haed of RTÉ 2FM and have him hire his staff from his old yuff radio station, oh wait!

I'd forgotten Radio Na Life! It's kind of mixed and community based.

watty

Online (Internet) isn't Radio, it realistically needs a fixed broadband connection and Mobile Internet isn't scalable. So called "Internet Radio" (Media Streaming) only ever works on Mobile (3G or 4G) because actually the number of listeners is tiny compared to Broadcast (real) Radio. The only current viable truly national technology is AM with FM a close second (about 1% to 2% less coverage).

DAB or any other Digital Transmission is currently unsuitable for Portable Broadcast Radio. The power consumption, poor ergonomics (suited only to TV) and sudden drop out with no warning make Digital Radio a failure compared to FM or AM. DAB+, DRM and DRM+ are equally failures for Mobile/Portable. At home DAB is redundant as DVB-T can carry the stations and a DVB-T box with Digital channel number is 1/2 price of DAB radio. A DVB-T stick for Laptop under €10.

The idea of having no national Irish Language station is bonkers. But it should have replaced 2FM on MW. Now 2RN (RTE NL) has trashed most of the MW AM aerials. It was ill conceived Book-keeping as the national AM networks are cheaper than a 99% Geographic Coverage DAB network. The DAB as configured should be 2x expensive per TX MUX as it has 1/2 the bit rate needed to come close to FM quality. Also it's got tiny coverage. So multiply DAB costs today by maybe x20 for a network with FM coverage and quality! Battery life even compared to 1929 valve radios of DAB is laughable. Roberts RT1 had TWO YEARS battery life. A 1955 Valve portable radio is about x3 power consumption of a 1980s Transistor radio and still is about 1/6th of running cost of the most recent DAB+ chip sets. DAB is over 12 years old. DAB+ only allows twice as many stations with all the same issues per MUX. Digital Radio isn't going to get better.

11 Million at peak times listen to BBC R4. Less than 16% of them on DAB. Subtract Deaf and children and people with no radio from UK population to see how amazing that figure is. From 1920s to 1960s there were programs on Radio for children. Pop etc is really for Teenagers and older. Almost nothing on Radio for pre school and primary kids. Mostly outside the major cities there is only 2FM for listeners of "pop" music.

RTE1 could be just as good as BBC R4.

It would be cultural vandalism to close TG4 or RnaG. BTW I never learnt any Irish at school (wasn't on offer) and don't know more than about a dozen words.

lertsnim

Dublin has a second Irish language channel? So what. What relevance has that for anybody not living in Dublin?

Elmo wrote: »

On Line > On Digital > On St. Paddy's Week it gets a temp licence! in Dublin!

Irrelevant to the majority of the country.

Elmo

Elmo wrote: »

On Line > On Digital > On St. Paddy's Week it gets a temp licence! in Dublin!

I am being facetious! I was piss taking the typical radio sting online > on digital etc etc

PeterDuggan

RnG is a relatively low cost sop to the vested interests of the Gomalia but TG4 has always been a hugely expensive white elephant. Then again it's quietly emerging from that limited role to become our fifth english (and european) language station with a programming sense to rival the BBC.

lertsnim

TG4 is a hugely expensive white elephant? How much is it compared to other Irish channels?

watty

lertsnim wrote: »

TG4 is a hugely expensive white elephant? How much is it compared to other Irish channels?

I think he is talking about TV3, certainly the Tax payer via NAMA etc bailed it out by about €60M+ recently? We'd miss it less than TG4.

PeterDuggan

lertsnim wrote: »

How much is it compared to other Irish channels?

A lot but that's the wrong question. How much is it per viewer?

PeterDuggan

watty wrote: »

We'd miss it less than TG4.

Agreed.

stereomatic

TG4 and RnG are both PSB and therefore the number of listeners and viewers is irrelevant
I fear this is becoming a debate about the language rather than a debate about the broadcasters

PeterDuggan

stereomatic wrote: »

The number of listeners and viewers is irrelevant.

Well I suspect you're probably right but not for the reasons you think.

Here's another thought. Far more people in Ireland speak for example Polish on a regular daily basis than Irish. And before some-one says that Irish is part of our "culture", we're now a multi-cultural society and that means respecting other peoples' religions, languages and customs equally. We're not doing that.

It's time to look forward not backward.

Sheldons Brain

Here's another thought. Far more people in Ireland speak for example Polish on a regular daily basis than Irish. And before some-one says that Irish is part of our "culture", we're now a multi-cultural society and that means respecting other peoples' religions, languages and customs equally. We're not doing that.

This isn't a society.

And Polish people who fought for so long to preserve their language against their bullying neighbours certainly did not come here with the intention of having their language supplant our own. It seems in Ireland that that the bullying neighbour will win in the name of "progress".,

SpaceTime

I would rather see more money go into genuinely useful things like RnaG, TG4, supporting Irish language publications, books, teaching classes etc than lashing huge amounts of money into translating endless state documents for no reason.

There's money there, it just needs to be prioritised and used better!

PeterDuggan

Like it or not we have to deal with the reality of multilingual Europe. And no-one's trying to supplant our language ...well except some of the old guard who are still trying to make us speak Irish.

TG4 are quietly changing their focus as I said. It's commendable to see them opening up to other languages.

Elmo

PeterDuggan wrote: »

Like it or not we have to deal with the reality of multilingual Europe. And no-one's trying to supplant our language ...well except some of the old guard who are still trying to make us speak Irish.

TG4 are quietly changing their focus as I said. It's commendable to see them opening up to other languages.

Largely most European countries speak English or teach English, many are even better at the language then most so called English speaking countries.

TG4's policy was always to aim for 2 to 3 hours of prime time original programming in irish a day. So there is no focus change, they have always provided access to English language programming particularly programmes that other broadcasts have no real interest in, and sports coverage that other broadcasters have no interest in.

IMO no irish tv channel should try to have a 100 % irish made programme schedule.

SpaceTime

Elmo wrote: »

Largely most European countries speak English or teach English, many are even better at the language then most so called English speaking countries.

I've lived in several European countries and I spend a good bit of time over and back on business and that simply is not the case outside of certain business communities and a few of the smaller countries that speak language that are extremely close to English to begin with.

Yes, it's a popular language to learn as a second language, but it is not really 'spoken' any more than Ireland speaks French in a lot of cases.

If you grow up in the Netherlands or one of the Scandinavian countries, English isn't particularly challenging to learn as you already speak a language that follows much of the same structure. Dutch isn't a huge leap from English really at all and the phonetics in the Scandinavian languages are quite compatible with English.

There are a few exceptional cases like Belgium where sometimes English gets used in the business community as a 'lingua franca' because of what amounts to inter-linguistic group conflicts in that country. The French speakers and the Dutch speakers do not get on. I have been in meetings where English was picked simply because it wasn't French or Dutch.
People actually often don't realise quite how bad that situation is! Other than they aren't attacking each other physically, there's a really bad relationship between the two parts of Belgium and Brussels is kind of stuck in the middle like a little bilingual citadel of common sense!

Brussels in particular also uses it a lot because you've so many international organisations with big presence there - EU, various other European bodies, NATO and aspects of the UN. So there are a lot of people speaking a lot of languages and it tends to provide a bridge. So does French sometimes though or German.

English has certainly become an international language for business, diplomacy and the internet, but it's far from replacing national languages anywhere really.

Also, the level of proficiency varies enormously from country to country. Try speaking English in France or Spain outside of a very narrow section of the business community and you really won't get far. It very much depends on how close your original language is to English (i.e. the phonetics and structure will be much easier if you're Dutch-speaking for example) and what size your language is.

If you speak Spanish for example, you've access to a vast array of media and online content as it's the 2nd widest spoken language in the world with close to 400 million native speakers. English is 4th by native speakers (295m) but it is widely used as a second language and actually 2nd language speakers now vastly outnumber native speakers.

Likewise, French has a huge media and rich online content so again, speakers of that language don't have to worry too much about learning another.

German oddly enough doesn't have as big a media presence as you'd expect relative to French, despite the size of the population of German speakers being quite large. However, it's pretty big nonetheless so you do get quite a lot of Germans who only speak German.

As you head further east in Europe German starts to become more widely spoken as a second language and then Russian as you get closer to there.

If you grow up speaking a small language like say Danish or Swedish, you'll obviously have a lot more of a need to learn a second language (or maybe even 3 or 4 depending no where you're located and who your neighbours are).

So, to say English is replacing European languages is really not factually accurate at all. It's just becoming a bridge language because it's a handy one to speak and because there's such a huge English-speaking (mostly American driven) media and online world.

In the context of European languages, I think Irish is very much in the same position as many other small languages and in Europe in general there's a lot of respect and understanding of the cultural significance of language.
So, really I don't know why people think it's 'under threat' all the time. It's far from it.

Elmo

Growing up my mam took in students, one of the Spanish guys thought it was strange that I would learn any language outside of English.

I was making a generalization that unfortunately many English speakers make.

We have gone off topic.

RTÉ could use it digital stations for better effect.

RTÉ Radio 1 Extra could be used purely for news
While the now defunct RTÉ Choice could have focused on arts, drama, culture and music
With RTÉ Gold used for archiving programming and repeats of the Golden Hour and Ronan Collins.

Though that leaves little for youth and doesn't put any of those services available to a wide audience.

Could FM carry an additional RTÉ channel outside of Dublin e.g. RTÉ Beyond the Pale?

Sheldons Brain

.

SpaceTime wrote:

So, really I don't know why people think it's 'under threat' all the time. It's far from it.

I agree with the general thrust of your post. Nevertheless, Boards have a large number of threads like this whose aim is the removal of Irish from Irish public life, with "multi-culturalism" used as an excuse to try and remove cultural diversity.

PeterDuggan

Irish has nothing to fear from multi-culturalism (or cultural diversity for that matter). It's not under threat as long as (and only in so far as) some people still want to speak it. It is and has always been under threat from those who also want to force others to do so. That's the wrong approach. It's coercion, it's fear-based, and it doesn't work.

Look at China. Shortly it'll be the largest English speaking country in the world - by choice and because their people want it. They have a thousand dialects of their own but they're not rooted in an insecurity that feels they need to force anyone to speak them. They don't see other cultures as a threat. They see them as an opportunity.

It's about time we looked out, not in - forward, not back.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

With RTÉ Gold used for archiving programming and repeats of the Golden Hour and Ronan Collins.

Could FM carry an additional RTÉ channel outside of Dublin e.g. RTÉ Beyond the Pale?

Back on topic:

Or put the other way could there be a different service in Dublin - Yes, 3 Rock and Kippure both give adequate service to Dublin, thus 3 Rock could easily carry different programmes (2FM has split services on FM before),

And Yes, moving eg Ronan Collins to RTE Gold would solve the perceived line up issue on Radio 1

Elmo

A subject in school is not forced, I was forced to learn English Literature, I don't think I have ever pick up a Shakespearian play since I left school. However it is an Education.

We always look out, To America and Britain, we could look further a field.

It would be wrong not to look back, it would be wrong not to be critical of ourselves and to look in. It would be wrong not to look forward and not to look towards others.

You could say the same about English it was forced on the Irish, Scottish, Welsh etc. Under British rule English was the language that was used as the official language of a so-called United Kingdom where several languages were spoken. The same can be said of the use of language in many European countries, France had many different languages.

Or put the other way could there be a different service in Dublin - Yes, 3 Rock and Kippure both give adequate service to Dublin, thus 3 Rock could easily carry different programmes (2FM has split services on FM before),

Too many local radio stations in Dublin.

PeterDuggan

Hmmm... Well let's just say I respect your right to do as you wish - but not to try to force me to do as you wish.

Elmo

PeterDuggan wrote: »

Hmmm... Well let's just say I respect your right to do as you wish - but not to try to force me to do as you wish.

No one is trying to force you to do anything. If anything the learning of irish gives you the choice to use it or not. It provides you with an education about the past and about culture. You may not see it that way but that is your opinion and view.

My worry is that the LC doesn't provide the choice of a lit exam in other euro languages.

But then none of this relates to the op's question should RnaG be closed?

PeterDuggan

As I said I respect your right to do as you wish - but not to try to force me to do as you wish.

And this is becoming tedious. I'm out.

lertsnim

Elmo wrote: »

It provides you with an education about the past and about culture

What? What kind of Irish lessons did you attend.

Elmo

Sorry that was another poster at some stage but yes it's a tedious argument.

The Irish course includes short stories and poetry. It is not good to see basic polish (any language) exams taken by fluent polish speakers.

icdg

We might just keep the debate here to broadcasting related issues only, the linguistic and political arguments can be taken elsewhere

Elmo

Would the FM space be worth much?

I think TG4 and RnaG should merge and be also given responsibility for the Irish Film Board Channel and Children's TV. Providing a comprehensive News Service in Irish, Funding Irish Film through the Licence Fee and providing Children's TV in both Irish and English (The econs of scale for Animation and Puppetry).

Should there be another national youth radio service?

Also RnaG did move away from its ban on English language music, it now carries a youth/alternative service at night called Anocht FM.

Turn the radio on

Elmo wrote: »

Would the FM space be worth much?

I think TG4 and RnaG should merge and be also given responsibility for the Irish Film Board Channel and Children's TV. Providing a comprehensive News Service in Irish, Funding Irish Film through the Licence Fee and providing Children's TV in both Irish and English (The econs of scale for Animation and Puppetry).

Should there be another national youth radio service?

Also RnaG did move away from its ban on English language music, it now carries a youth/alternative service at night called Anocht FM.

Anocht fm was axed last year due to lack of interest. Apparently when they would run a text competition, they would be lucky to get one entry.

OldRio

hfallada wrote: »

http://www.bai.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/201310_PressRelease-October_PK.pdf

Page 4 of this PDF states that only 12% of 15-24 year olds listen to any RTE station. But 77% of people aged 15-24 listen to radio. That is embarrassing that only a eighth of young listen to the state broadcaster. I imagine the figure is signifcantly higher for the BBC.

There is also a second irish radio station in Dublin City

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raidi%C3%B3_Na_Life

So you admit you were incorrect in saying
'There is no national radio station that any under the age of 25 would listen. 2fm isn't listened to by any young people. '