cow box is there any need for trailer licence

djmc

I don't mean to offend anyone doing this test just on about my own trailer use. I want to keep within the law and certainly want insurance cover in case of accident
My understanding is l can pull an unbraked trailer loaded under 750 KGS for example large single axel dog box 350 kgs plus four 50 kg suck calves would be OK total weight 550kgs

It is OK to pull heavier weight once the trailer is braked and total weight of trailer + jeep + load is under 3500 KGS example jeep 1600 kg 8x4 trailer 750 KGS and two 500kg cows total weight 3350 kg is OK on braked trailer

Also is there any weight limit putting a larger cattle box on a tractor on w license

I got my license in 1990 and have 24 years experience pulling trailers but with this law now being enforced I would like to keep within the law and not too bothered about doing lessons test etc.
Would be 3 miles from mart so tractor is no big deal

bbam

It's not about the actual load in te trailer it's about the designed loaded weight of the trailer. So if the max designed loaded weight of the trailer puts you over the 3500kg then your breaking the law.
I made lots of calls to the RSA and Garda station last year to clarify this for pulling a caravan. Many guards aren't clear at all on the rules so I keep a print out of the liscences limits in the jeep.

djmc

bbam wrote: »

It's not about the actual load in te trailer it's about the designed loaded weight of the trailer. So if the max designed loaded weight of the trailer puts you over the 3500kg then your breaking the law.
I made lots of calls to the RSA and Garda station last year to clarify this for pulling a caravan. Many guards aren't clear at all on the rules so I keep a print out of the liscences limits in the jeep.

Thanks for clearing that up
What about a homemade trailer the dog box I got for calves is 6x3.5wide and 4 foot high it is light enough that I can lift wheels of the ground but is looks a home made job

bbam

djmc wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up
What about a homemade trailer the dog box I got for calves is 6x3.5wide and 4 foot high it is light enough that I can lift wheels of the ground but is looks a home made job

This is where things get vague and grey.. If I make a 14*8 tri axle at home what's its designed capacity?? I could claim I'm designing it for 500kg load, but I could foresee a whole heap of pain if anything went wrong..

At a guess I'd say they would compare it to the same sized professionally manufactured trailer, but who knows how it would play out..

My caravan has a chassis stamp for the laden weight so it wasn't on my radar when talking to them..

Conmaicne Mara

Did I hear something about having to get home made trailers tested?

The whole thing is going to be an awful mess. Meeting I was at in Westport saw two traffic corps Gardai consulting with two RSA people when asked questions by the crowd.

If they haven't it straight how are we mean to?

TITANIUM.

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Did I hear something about having to get home made trailers tested?

The whole thing is going to be an awful mess. Meeting I was at in Westport saw two traffic corps Gardai consulting with two RSA people when asked questions by the crowd.

If they haven't it straight how are we mean to?

Soon enough we'll all have to have it on the licence. EB on the licence as it stands. Some mess alright.

arctictree

I have a Landcruiser and tow a 8x4 trailer with brakes. A few sheep in it sometimes. Am I legal?

djmc

arctictree wrote: »

I have a Landcruiser and tow a 8x4 trailer with brakes. A few sheep in it sometimes. Am I legal?

Weigh it with sheep in it if its under 750 KGS u are OK
Not sure if its over 750kgs it depends on total weight of Land cruiser + what trailer is rated to carry and total being under 3.5 ton I think.

Conmaicne Mara

arctictree wrote: »

I have a Landcruiser and tow a 8x4 trailer with brakes. A few sheep in it sometimes. Am I legal?

Do you have the EB license?

Dad has a Murphy Aerlite trailer, think it's 8x4 foot 7. I rang them up a while ago and the empty trailer alone was 680kg (their 8x5 is 722). So sod all can be put in it legally without the proper licence and veeeeeehikle.

Mickey H

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Did I hear something about having to get home made trailers tested?

The whole thing is going to be an awful mess. Meeting I was at in Westport saw two traffic corps Gardai consulting with two RSA people when asked questions by the crowd.

If they haven't it straight how are we mean to?

That sounds familiar CM. If it comes to pass, it will turn into a huge mess.

bbam

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Do you have the EB license?

Dad has a Murphy Aerlite trailer, think it's 8x4 foot 7. I rang them up a while ago and the empty trailer alone was 680kg (their 8x5 is 722). So sod all can be put in it legally without the proper licence and veeeeeehikle.

If the trailer is 680kg, say he's pulling it with 1800kg jeep, that leaves 1020kg payload, the combined loaded weight can be 3500kg and pull it on a regular B license.
see here under B.. http://www.ndls.ie/en/Driving-Licence/driving-licence-categories.html

The vehicle may tow a trailer (a) where the MAM of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg or (b) where the MAM of the trailer exceeds 750kg the combined MAM of the towing vehicle and the trailer is not greater than 3,500 kg.

djmc

bbam wrote: »

If the trailer is 680kg, say he's pulling it with 1800kg jeep, that leaves 1020kg payload, the combined loaded weight can be 3500kg and pull it on a regular B license.
see here under B.. http://www.ndls.ie/en/Driving-Licence/driving-licence-categories.html

The vehicle may tow a trailer (a) where the MAM of the trailer is not greater than 750 kg or (b) where the MAM of the trailer exceeds 750kg the combined MAM of the towing vehicle and the trailer is not greater than 3,500 kg.

That is what I thought reading the RSA website
Once total loaded weight of jeep is under 3500 KGS you could be fine with your b license
Bbam thinks it is what trailer is designed to carry +jeep weight that has to be under 3500
From reading RSA or ndls it seems your fine with braked trailer once total weight is under 3500kg and your towing vehicle is designed to pull trailer weight
Which in most cases a few calves sheep or cow would be fine in 8x4 trailer

bbam

djmc wrote: »

That is what I thought reading the RSA website
Once total loaded weight of jeep is under 3500 KGS you could be fine with your b license
Bbam thinks it is what trailer is designed to carry +jeep weight that has to be under 3500
From reading RSA or ndls it seems your fine with braked trailer once total weight is under 3500kg and your towing vehicle is designed to pull trailer weight
Which in most cases a few calves sheep or cow would be fine in 8x4 trailer

3500kg is the combined loaded weight of towing vehicle and trailer, not the loaded weight of the trailer alone.

flatout11

bbam wrote: »

3500kg is the combined loaded weight of towing vehicle and trailer, not the loaded weight of the trailer alone.

i thought it was the laden weight of the trailer......... even at that it was on the light side!!!

Conmaicne Mara

bbam wrote: »

3500kg is the combined loaded weight of towing vehicle and trailer, not the loaded weight of the trailer alone.

Towing vehicle, trailer, and load isn't it?

djmc

Bbam your spot on
There is a good site on it on Www.trailerknowledge.com

Under new trailer rules section
I think I can pull a trailer with a mam of 1600kg
With my KIA sportage but most twin axle trailers are more than that
Looking at specs on Westwood trailers there are single axle livestock trailers with mam or gross weight of up to 1400kg that would be a nice few calves or sheep

4odh4n

my take on it is that it was the plated weight the trailer could carry, combined with the weight of trailer and towing vehicle that determined the licence needed?

say a jeep at 1800kg plus a trailer at 680kg = 2480kg, if that trailer is plated to carry a max load of 1000kg then total max weight is 3480kg and B licence is fine?, but if the trailer is capable of carrying 1030kg or more!, EB licence is required.

Nearly any maunfactred double axle trailer must be plated for at least 1500kg+?, so will need a EB licence to pull it

djmc

This is going to be a hard one for garda to follow and enforce there are twin axle trailer out there with max gross weights of 750kgs
Www.Leronitrailers.ie
Also westwood trailers have a featherlight range

bbam

Even harder as many just don't know the regulation. I bring a print out of the liscence category in the jeep to show if I'm stopped.

Regarding testing of trailers. I don't see that happening. But it's illegal to sell a new trailer without a CE cert. but my understanding the cert just covers lights and hitch specifications, I don't believe it covers build quality nor laden capacity.

P_Cash

for me,

i did the legal thing and went in to my local drivers licence office, (newly openned, with people who know nothing about diving licences)

Wife went in and asked about the EB licence ..

can I ask about a licence for a trailer,
what do you want to know,
what do i have to do to get one,
mary, do you know what. . .NO. (so professional)
Im not to sure now is there someone here that knows.
I just want to be able to tow a 8x5 trailer.
I think you have to sit the test (i take it she meant theory), and then you can apply for learning permit, tell him log on and read about it on the internet. awhright love.

totally 100% useless.

so i then started reading

firstly, i didnt know i was legally towing my new 8X5 home last weekend. as it weighed 722 kgs. as i see the max is 750 kgs.

then i noticed, that if its over 750, but the trialer + weight in it + weight of jeep isnt over 3500kgs, then im also fine.

so with this information that i was given,

my xtrail, 1616kgs + 722kgs for trailer is 2338kgs
this leave me with 1,162kgs to put in it.

but the most ill ever have in it is 700 max 1000


im done with it, such a friggen mess.

this is nuts.

theory test
eye sight
medical
drivers test
i saw some where, where the trailer and the jeep for testing must be a specific weight/lenght, 14ft?. . . wft. .

anyway . .

armed with this info where all weight cant exceed 3500 ill tell that to the garda

P_Cash

look what it says on the NDLS website?.
so i can use my twin axel 8X5.
sneaky thing to put in at the bottom regarding as a general rule for horse box and cattle trailer,
maybe they never drove in the country and realised that we have single axel up to tri-axel.
4x7 up to what 14x5. . .


""""""""""""""""What trailers does my category B licence cover?

You can tow a trailer with a

MAM no greater than 750kg, and/or
Where the MAM of the trailer exceeds 750kg but where the MAM of the vehicle and trailer does not exceed 3500kg.

As a general rule your category B licence would not allow you to tow a horsebox or a livestock trailer for bringing animals to the local mart."""""""""""""""""

J.O. Farmer

P_Cash wrote: »

""""""""""""""""What trailers does my category B licence cover?

You can tow a trailer with a

MAM no greater than 750kg, and/or
Where the MAM of the trailer exceeds 750kg but where the MAM of the vehicle and trailer does not exceed 3500kg.

As a general rule your category B licence would not allow you to tow a horsebox or a livestock trailer for bringing animals to the local mart."""""""""""""""""

That general rule is very specific. What if you were going to the local meat factory or if I had half a tonne of fertiliser in the trailer do different rules apply.

Guard: "I see you have livestock in your trailer. Are you going to the local mart."
Farmer: " No I'm going to 1 30 mile further on. "
Guard: " Fair enough your B licence will cover you just so long as it's not the local mart."

djmc

The MAM maximum authorized mass of trailer
Means the max amount the trailer is allowed to carry it is stamped on a plate on new trailers
Its not the weight of the empty trailer or the weight you have in it.
It is listed as gross weight under trailer spec
On some of the websites I listed above .

arctictree

P_Cash wrote: »

for me,

i did the legal thing and went in to my local drivers licence office, (newly openned, with people who know nothing about diving licences)

Wife went in and asked about the EB licence ..

can I ask about a licence for a trailer,
what do you want to know,
what do i have to do to get one,
mary, do you know what. . .NO. (so professional)
Im not to sure now is there someone here that knows.
I just want to be able to tow a 8x5 trailer.
I think you have to sit the test (i take it she meant theory), and then you can apply for learning permit, tell him log on and read about it on the internet. awhright love.

totally 100% useless.

so i then started reading

firstly, i didnt know i was legally towing my new 8X5 home last weekend. as it weighed 722 kgs. as i see the max is 750 kgs.

then i noticed, that if its over 750, but the trialer + weight in it + weight of jeep isnt over 3500kgs, then im also fine.

so with this information that i was given,

my xtrail, 1616kgs + 722kgs for trailer is 2338kgs
this leave me with 1,162kgs to put in it.

but the most ill ever have in it is 700 max 1000


im done with it, such a friggen mess.

this is nuts.

theory test
eye sight
medical
drivers test
i saw some where, where the trailer and the jeep for testing must be a specific weight/lenght, 14ft?. . . wft. .

anyway . .

armed with this info where all weight cant exceed 3500 ill tell that to the garda

Similar thing happened to me. In the end I just gave up and hope that my B license will cover me to pull an 8x4 with a few sheep with my jeep.

Funny thing about the reg's is that to get an EB licence you must pass a theory test for the pulling vehicle. What happens if you fail that test? Will your B licence be taken off you?!

bbam

Lads. Ye are missing the whole limit idea if are thinking that just because I'll only have 700kg in it I'll be fine. That's just not right, you will not be fine if stopped.

It's the designed max mass ofthe combined trailer and it's load and the towing vehicle that cannot exceed 3500kg.
So if the trailer has a mam of 2000kg the towing vehicle will be limited to 1500kg.
And you'll also need to be within the specified towing limit of the towing vehicle.

It's about the designed mam not how your going to use it.

flatout11

so would it be fair to say most younger farmers cant pull 10 ft up (over 750 kg) cattle trailer - hows this going to pan out if its enforced to the letter of the law... yikes!!!
also for any farmers hauling full loads in 12, 14 and even 16 ft trailers - sure they are all going to be over the weight limit:eek:

P_Cash

Sounds nuts,
Mam of my 8x5 trailer is 2600, how I'd get that weight in it using it for livestock is beyond me.

Max would fit is 4 300kg animals.

I'd love if the mam was half of what is, could I get it changed.

I can't understand why its based on what's the max it pulls or can take. . it should be simple as weight of trailer plus what you have in it.

Sher in that case my trailer 8x5 722kgs empty is over the limit for my 2.2 xtrail.
If going by mam that is.

Stupid rule. Mam is the max weight you should carry going by trailer specs, what's this got to do with setting a max weight for licencing/towing regulations is beyond me.

rancher

P_Cash wrote: »

Sounds nuts,
Mam of my 8x5 trailer is 2600, how I'd get that weight in it using it for livestock is beyond me.

Max would fit is 4 300kg animals.

I'd love if the mam was half of what is, could I get it changed.

I can't understand why its based on what's the max it pulls or can take. . it should be simple as weight of trailer plus what you have in it.

Sher in that case my trailer 8x5 722kgs empty is over the limit for my 2.2 xtrail.
If going by mam that is.

Stupid rule. Mam is the max weight you should carry going by trailer specs, what's this got to do with setting a max weight for licencing/towing regulations is beyond me.

The only concern I'd have would be insurance.....once your insurance company covers you, the worst that can happen is a summons

Conmaicne Mara

P_Cash wrote: »

Sounds nuts,
Mam of my 8x5 trailer is 2600, how I'd get that weight in it using it for livestock is beyond me.

Max would fit is 4 300kg animals.

I'd love if the mam was half of what is, could I get it changed.

I can't understand why its based on what's the max it pulls or can take. . it should be simple as weight of trailer plus what you have in it.

Sher in that case my trailer 8x5 722kgs empty is over the limit for my 2.2 xtrail.
If going by mam that is.

Stupid rule. Mam is the max weight you should carry going by trailer specs, what's this got to do with setting a max weight for licencing/towing regulations is beyond me.

I think the emphasis is more on stopping than towing TBH, which has merit of its own. But it needs simplification in it's explanation.

have2flushtwice

Just read the entire thread. .
Think im goint to go to my insurance broker and ask his advice, and ask for a letter
I use the jeep, terrano, and trailer occasionly, wouldnt be towing more than a ton of goods, so id be under 3500 kg. But to tow, i need a licence
Now if i had a nissan patrol, which i was told weigghs over 2.5 ton when fully fuelled, i wouldnt pull a weanling leagally, if i had a 750kg trailer.

finbarrk

What about a car pulling a horsebox or cowbox?

_Brian

have2flushtwice wrote: »

Just read the entire thread. .
Think im goint to go to my insurance broker and ask his advice, and ask for a letter
I use the jeep, terrano, and trailer occasionly, wouldnt be towing more than a ton of goods, so id be under 3500 kg. But to tow, i need a licence
Now if i had a nissan patrol, which i was told weigghs over 2.5 ton when fully fuelled, i wouldnt pull a weanling leagally, if i had a 750kg trailer.

Remember lads it's the design gross vehicle weight not the actual weight that needs to be under 3500kgs.

So the terrano is probably 1800kgs and designed to be ~2200kgs gross loaded
A builders trailer is probably 500kgs but designed to be ~2000kgs gross loaded
So your designed gross weight is about 4200kgs so your not covered.