Got stoped by a Garda (MOD NOTE: post #275)

godtabh

Got stop in the bus lane along the N11 just at the petrol station after the Cherrywood exit heading into town.

He stopped me to ask me why I was cycling in the bus lane. The conversation start off with why I felt I had to right to delay buses in the bus lane.

Then it turned to why I wasnt using the cycle lane. He thought it was safer than the bus lane and advised me to use it.

I explained my reason for using the bus lane. Better surface. Better visibility. Less pedestrians. Less debris. et etc. He didnt agree so we had a difference of opinion.


This went on for about 15 mins.

Now he wasnt being a prick just giving me advice. I would hope to think I am a relatively safe cyclists. I am always lit up light a chirstmas tree. I have my helmet. Dont take unnecessary risks etc etc. He said he followed me for a while (I saw him on the other side of the road and do a U turn across the pedestrian crossing just before the garage) so would have thought it wasnt needed to pull me over.

Now if I was an ninja yeah fair enough. Just seemed like a weir experience.

Any one have something like that happen to them before?

wirelessdude01

Two word, a jobsworth and also a liar. Little to be doing.

Tenzor07

Meanwhile, actual crimes were being committed...

ragazzo

godtabh wrote: »

Got stop in the bus lane along the N11 just at the petrol station after the Cherrywood exit heading into town.

He stopped me to ask me why I was cycling in the bus lane. The conversation start off with why I felt I had to right to delay buses in the bus lane.

Then it turned to why I wasnt using the cycle lane. He thought it was safer than the bus lane and advised me to use it.

I explained my reason for using the bus lane. Better surface. Better visibility. Less pedestrians. Less debris. et etc. He didnt agree so we had a difference of opinion.


This went on for about 15 mins.

Now he wasnt being a prick just giving me advice. I would hope to think I am a relatively safe cyclists. I am always lit up light a chirstmas tree. I have my helmet. Dont take unnecessary risks etc etc. He said he followed me for a while (I saw him on the other side of the road and do a U turn across the pedestrian crossing just before the garage) so would have thought it wasnt needed to pull me over.

Now if I was an ninja yeah fair enough. Just seemed like a weir experience.

Any one have something like that happen to them before?

15 minutes of your life that you will never get back!
Stuff like that happens all the time and not just to cyclists.

crosstownk

godtabh wrote: »

He stopped me to ask me why I was cycling in the bus lane.

Fair enough I suppose.

godtabh wrote: »

........why I felt I had to right to delay buses in the bus lane.

Is this now an offence? Were you holding up a fleet of busses?

godtabh wrote: »

Then it turned to why I wasnt using the cycle lane. He thought it was safer than the bus lane and advised me to use it.

A hero. :rolleyes:

godtabh wrote: »

I explained my reason for using the bus lane. Better surface. Better visibility. Less pedestrians. Less debris. et etc. He didnt agree so we had a difference of opinion.

And that's all it is really. Why was he wasting time on this nonevent?

tampopo

Yes, meanwhile cars parked on a cycle track, during a Clearway, too close to a pedestrian crossing, on a double yellow line not load or unloading, two wheels on the footpath.

Strawberry Swan

Some guards have a personal vendetta against cyclists. He might not be one of them but it does seem fairly pedantic behaviour. And as far as I'm aware, it's not mandatory to use the cycle lane.

moonshadow

Really disappointed with the thread title......thought you were done for speeding lol !!

ragazzo

tampopo wrote: »

Yes, meanwhile cars parked on a cycle track, during a Clearway, too close to a pedestrian crossing, on a double yellow line not load or unloading, two wheels on the footpath.

Motorists who do any of the above, on more than a rare occasion, will pay the price. Do you really think that cyclists get more hassle than motorists?
The Traffic Corp keep themselves busy!

Drummerboy08

So avoiding pedestrians in the cycle lane is easier than avoiding buses/PSV's/Emergency services in the bus lane?

snubbleste

Joe Duffy 1850 715815

rollingscone

Just another person who has been educated to believe that cyclists are second class traffic.


It's hard to remember when those of us who started adult cycling relatively recently didn't have the benefit of experiencing commuting by bicycle as well as by car but once upon a time would we have disagreed with the ill Informed Garda whose opinions are doubtless formed from the same pool of motor bias and unfounded assumptions as every other non cyclist...and quite a few of the ever lethal Mr Safety types who whizz through red lights and undertake buses at junctions in their flapping hi vis vests and improperly fitted helmets while justifying their behaviour as being 'safer'.

Funnily enough the last classic cut Mr Safety I saw was cycling along the cycle paths on the N11...on the wrong side.

zarquon

It is an offense for private vehicles to bus lanes therefore should not the same rule apply for bus lanes?

Beasty

zarquon wrote: »

It is an offense for private vehicles to bus lanes therefore should not the same rule apply for bus lanes?

Not sure what you meant to say, but cyclists are entitled (under the law) to cycle in virtually all bus lanes in Ireland

jober

I'd a similar experience few months back on the naas Rd between red cow and Newlands cross ,except the garda wasn't as pleasant when I showed him the state of the cycle lane and explained I wasn't gonna use it

browsing

zarquon wrote: »

It is an offense for private vehicles to bus lanes therefore should not the same rule apply for bus lanes?

busLane.gif

nak

Have heard of a few people being stops by Gardai and told they were doing something illegal when they weren't; one was told helmets were a legal requirement. My husband was stopped walking his bike on merrion row to the bike rack (a few metres) and told that walking with a bike on the pavement was illegal. Got a warning and was told that next time he would get arrested.

pablo128

Until the law was changed where you can cycle anywhere, the law stated that a bus lane was also a cycle lane, but if there was also a dedicated cycle lane, you must use it.
I'm gonna guess the guard was acting on this premise, and wasn't up to speed with the change in the law.

seamus

Had a similar run in with a Garda a few weeks back and posted it in the off topic thread. Was he a shickaloney or a patrol car?

Jawgap

godtabh wrote: »

Got stop in the bus lane along the N11 just at the petrol station after the Cherrywood exit heading into town.
.........
.......
Any one have something like that happen to them before?

Yeah, the Santry lads have stopped a few times to give me the 'party line' on road / cycle safety - not much of it based on the reality of cycling.

sdanseo

I don't understand why a cyclist would use a bus lane instead of a cycle lane where one is available.

OK, so the surface may be better. If the footpath/cycle area is combined and is wide enough you can avoid peds that stray into the marked area for bikes. If it's seperate, no peds.

Whereas by driving in the bus lane you:

-Increase your chances of an accident
-Delay everyone

To me cycling in a bus lane or on the road where an alternative is available is tantamount to deliberately giving motorists the two fingers. And of course if a motorist hits you they'll be automatically blamed

I think cyclists should suck up a slightly bumpy surface in order to stay safe and keep traffic moving for all. An unreasonable request?

Chips Lovell

Yes

feck sake lads

Beasty wrote: »

Not sure what you meant to say, but cyclists are entitled (under the law) to cycle in virtually all bus lanes in Ireland

yes i thought that as well did someone change the law:eek:

nak

sdeire wrote: »

I don't understand why a cyclist would use a bus lane instead of a cycle lane where one is available.

OK, so the surface may be better. If the footpath/cycle area is combined and is wide enough you can avoid peds that stray into the marked area for bikes. If it's seperate, no peds.

Whereas by driving in the bus lane you:

-Increase your chances of an accident
-Delay everyone

To me cycling in a bus lane or on the road where an alternative is available is tantamount to deliberately giving motorists the two fingers. And of course if a motorist hits you they'll be automatically blamed

I think cyclists should suck up a slightly bumpy surface in order to stay safe and keep traffic moving for all. An unreasonable request?

Cycle lanes generally aren't maintained well, would you cycle on a path covered in glass, (risking punctures) gravel, horse **** etc when you didn't have to?

pablo128

sdeire wrote: »

I think cyclists should suck up a slightly bumpy surface in order to stay safe and keep traffic moving for all. An unreasonable request?

Ah let them cycle where they like. But if the shoe was on the other foot and I threw the auld Avensis up onto the footpath because the road was bumpy and there was some litter and broken glass on it........

morana

sdeire wrote: »

-Delay everyone

. And of course if a motorist hits you they'll be automatically blamed

you are having a laugh.

Red Nissan

Probably working on complaints from the motoring public, including bus drivers. So said cop with twenty minutes to spare decided to investigate and you just happen to be there.

There is obviously some discussion of mandatory compliance with using 'cycle lanes' if provided, though nowhere near being so if ever.

sdanseo

morana wrote: »

you are having a laugh.

Not at all.

I do my share of cycling on the roads but on an MTB for the odd bit of exercise, and never for commuting.

It'd strike me as mad to deliberately avoid a cycle lane, especially one that's raised up off the level of the road. Less risk of being pancaked by a vehicle.

As a motorist I'm held up by cyclists all the time and while I don't mind that where they've nowhere else to go, seeing them avoid cycle lanes is incredibly frustrating.

I'm not here to **** on cyclists' parade in their forum - it's a genuine question. I'm curious is all. Take the point about punctures and all but you make it sound like every cycle lane is like a smashed bottle minefield.

godtabh

seamus wrote: »

Had a similar run in with a Garda a few weeks back and posted it in the off topic thread. Was he a shickaloney or a patrol car?

On a bike. He reckons he is a cyclist himself and does the N11 daily and that the cycle lane is in good condition. Not sure if I believe that!

As I said he wasn't a being a prick. He was giving me advice. That advice may been better spent talking to the lad I passed about 10,mins later going the wrong way down the cycle lane.

Chips Lovell

Do you think it would be reasonable for a cyclist to ask a motorist not to drive on certain roads, because they hold them up?

Lmklad

Just looked up the rules of the road, hard copy so no link. Where a cycle lane is provided it must be used. A cycle lane/track is indicated by both lane markings and by posted signs.

wirelessdude01

My problem with cycling lanes in a lot of places is that they are there and then suddenly they either merge with the standard footpath, a bustop appears or they are merged back onto the road with hardly any notice. They are a disgrace with the way they are maintained.

Zyzz

Lmklad wrote: »

Just looked up the rules of the road, hard copy so no link. Where a cycle lane is provided it must be used. A cycle lane/track is indicated by both lane markings and by posted signs.

haha

Dotsie~tmp

sdeire wrote: »

I don't understand why a cyclist would use a bus lane instead of a cycle lane where one is available.

OK, so the surface may be better. If the footpath/cycle area is combined and is wide enough you can avoid peds that stray into the marked area for bikes. If it's seperate, no peds.

Whereas by driving in the bus lane you:

-Increase your chances of an accident
-Delay everyone

To me cycling in a bus lane or on the road where an alternative is available is tantamount to deliberately giving motorists the two fingers. And of course if a motorist hits you they'll be automatically blamed

I think cyclists should suck up a slightly bumpy surface in order to stay safe and keep traffic moving for all. An unreasonable request?

You must not cycle much. Some of the cycle lanes around here are lethal. Broken up, sudden rises and drops, ending at high kerb drops. One near me in north Finglas even turns from good path to 5 inch kerb onto hardcore! Drop down onto that at night doing 30kph and skinny tyres. Poles, bus shelters, rotten leaves, pedestrians (always have right of way remember). At night with the bad illumination you are taking a chance on most of them unless you know the layout. I'll take my chances in the bus lanes.

Note: I have noticed a SIGNIFICANT difference in quality of these between northside and southside Dublin. Guess which.

sdanseo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Do you think it would be reasonable for a cyclist to ask a motorist not to drive on certain roads, because they hold them up?

In some cases this happens. I can think of at least two junctions in Dublin where at rush hour, motorists manufacture a second lane where none is marked, taking up every inch of space on the road and blocking cyclists.

It's all about common sense and so on. If everyone can be kept moving at a happy pace without risk of an accident then to me that would be worth the risk of spending ten minutes fixing a puncture. They happen to cars too y'know.

Chips Lovell

It's more than some cases. Most cross-city journeys by bike are quicker when traffic is light. Cars and other motorist traffic will delay you. Do you think motorists are thus giving two fingers to cyclists?

sdanseo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It's more than some cases. Most cross-city journeys by bike are quicker when traffic is light. Cars and other motorist traffic will delay you. Do you think motorists are thus giving two fingers to cyclists?

Totally depends on whether they're using the roads in an appropriate manner.

If they're leaving enough room for cyclists to pass, as is their right - No.

If they're behaving like a large proportion of Dublin drivers do, and quite simply can't bloody drive - then Yes, very possibly.

I'm asking about the behaviour of cyclists though. You can keep passing the buck and counter-argue about how crap drivers are (and I recognise, freely,that many are totally undeserving of their license for reasons including their attitude to cyclists), but it doesn't address my original comment.

The road is shared. Not owned by one type of user or the other.

morana

sdeire wrote: »

Not at all.

I do my share of cycling on the roads but on an MTB for the odd bit of exercise, and never for commuting.

It'd strike me as mad to deliberately avoid a cycle lane, especially one that's raised up off the level of the road. Less risk of being pancaked by a vehicle.

As a motorist I'm held up by cyclists all the time and while I don't mind that where they've nowhere else to go, seeing them avoid cycle lanes is incredibly frustrating.

I'm not here to **** on cyclists' parade in their forum - it's a genuine question. I'm curious is all. Take the point about punctures and all but you make it sound like every cycle lane is like a smashed bottle minefield.

if a motorist hits a cyclist they are automatically blamed! should they get a badge of honour or a certificate.?

its the law we can use them get over it...

sdanseo

morana wrote: »

if a motorist hits a cyclist they are automatically blamed! should they get a badge of honour or a certificate.?

morana wrote: »

if a motorist hits a cyclist they are automatically blamed! should they get a badge of honour or a certificate.?

Course they shouldn't. But just because a motorist hits a cyclist doesn't mean they're at fault. If you overtake a truck on the inside on a bike while it's turning left you're a muppet. Just the same as if a car passenger opens their door into a cyclists' path without checking their mirror is an equal moron.

morana wrote: »

its the law we can use them get over it...

Actually, were there is a cycle lane provided, that's untrue. And that's unreasonable on cyclists, because often times the cycle lane is unusable. I'm talking about where it is perfectly usable.

Chips Lovell

Motorists are under no obligation to leave space for cyclists to pass.

And I'm not passing the buck. I'm pointing out that you're holding one type of road user to a standard that all others aren't held to.

The law states that you can cycle in a bus lane if you want to. It also states that you have no obligation to cycle in a cycle lane.

doozerie

sdeire wrote: »

It'd strike me as mad to deliberately avoid a cycle lane, especially one that's raised up off the level of the road. Less risk of being pancaked by a vehicle.

This is a topic that has been covered many times in the past on here, and elsewhere. Fundamentally, badly designed cycle lanes, as many of them are in this country, increase risk for the cyclists by, for one thing, taking them out of the view of motorists but merging them back in with motorists at every junction in a manner that makes junctions extremely dangerous to negotiate. As a cyclist, just like as a motorist, it is almost always safer to remain on the road, visible, and part of traffic.

sdeire wrote:

As a motorist I'm held up by cyclists all the time...

A common misconception. Cyclists don't hold up traffic, cyclists *are* traffic. Rational people wouldn't typically expect the likes of tractors, bin lorries, etc., to drive on a footpath simply because they often travel slower than trailing motorists would like, but it's a "solution" widely advised for cyclists, seemingly based on some sort of misguided assumption that cyclists have less right (than motorists) to be on the roads in the first place. It's a bit like joggers expecting pedestrians to step off the footpath and out of their way at the first sight of a jogger behind them.

Raam

sdeire wrote: »

seeing them avoid cycle lanes is incredibly frustrating.

No it's not. Get some perspective.

blobbie

Lmklad wrote: »

Just looked up the rules of the road, hard copy so no link. Where a cycle lane is provided it must be used. A cycle lane/track is indicated by both lane markings and by posted signs.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0332.html

and search for Cycle Track

In summary,

"Part 3 of the Regulations amend, from 1 October 2012, ....... new and amended requirements for use of cycle tracks (only use of contraflow cycle track and of any cycle track in pedestrianised area is mandatory); consolidation of regulation provisions of 1997-2011 for use of bus lanes (including change in law to permit pedal cyclists to use contra-flow bus lanes and bus-only streets) and consolidation of the regulatory rules of 1997-2011 for pedal cyclists."

Just saying.

niceonetom

Why do so many motorists think they're owed some kind of explanation for others using the road perfectly legally?

I HAVE A CAR! JUSTIFY YOURSELF TO ME!

Tar.Aldarion

sdeire wrote: »

I don't understand why a cyclist would use a bus lane instead of a cycle lane where one is available.

OK, so the surface may be better. If the footpath/cycle area is combined and is wide enough you can avoid peds that stray into the marked area for bikes. If it's seperate, no peds.

Whereas by driving in the bus lane you:

-Increase your chances of an accident
-Delay everyone

To me cycling in a bus lane or on the road where an alternative is available is tantamount to deliberately giving motorists the two fingers. And of course if a motorist hits you they'll be automatically blamed

I think cyclists should suck up a slightly bumpy surface in order to stay safe and keep traffic moving for all. An unreasonable request?

The problem with this is it is often very unsafe to use the cycle lane, it's that bad. Now if we had bike lanes like Amsterdam I'd be all over them and full of glee. If I am in the cycle lane I get punctures practically every week - this costs quite a lot and is very time consuming, and you can easily fly off your bike with all the crap. Often piles of leaves and other debris and you can't even see what you are cycling over. If they are kept well then we would use them. Not to say I don't, I do use them a lot, but I have to avoid it a lot of the time.

crosstownk

Lmklad wrote: »

Just looked up the rules of the road, hard copy so no link. Where a cycle lane is provided it must be used. A cycle lane/track is indicated by both lane markings and by posted signs.

Your hard copy is out of date. Although I'm not sure if there's been a reprint to reflect the changes that blobbie referred to.

Tenzor07

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The problem with this is it is often very unsafe to use the cycle lane, it's that bad. Now if we had bike lanes like Amsterdam I'd be all over them and full of glee.

I reckon Ireland is about 30 years behind our (continental)European neighbours in terms of cycle lanes, I'm sure if you took a Dutch or Danish person over to cycle around Dublin "Cycle lanes" for the day they'd sprint back to the airport in horror...

Raam

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I reckon Ireland is about 30 years behind our (continental)European neighbours in terms of cycle lanes, I'm sure if you took a Dutch or Danish person over to cycle around Dublin "Cycle lanes" for the day they'd sprint back to the airport in horror...

They would probably just use the road, like the rest of us.

morana

sdeire wrote: »

Actually, were there is a cycle lane provided, that's untrue. And that's unreasonable on cyclists, because often times the cycle lane is unusable. I'm talking about where it is perfectly usable.

no its not as you have been told here many times.

any vehicle turning left has to make sure there is nothing on their inside when turning, although I agree that for a cyclist its better to be out of that zone

morana

why dont we as a cycling group go over to the motorist threads and do a bit of trolling...it seems to be the fashion ffs

browsing

sdeire wrote: »

I don't understand why a cyclist would use a bus lane instead of a cycle lane where one is available.

OK, so the surface may be better. If the footpath/cycle area is combined and is wide enough you can avoid peds that stray into the marked area for bikes. If it's seperate, no peds.

Whereas by driving in the bus lane you:

-Increase your chances of an accident
-Delay everyone

To me cycling in a bus lane or on the road where an alternative is available is tantamount to deliberately giving motorists the two fingers. And of course if a motorist hits you they'll be automatically blamed

I think cyclists should suck up a slightly bumpy surface in order to stay safe and keep traffic moving for all. An unreasonable request?

Personally, I don't like them. There is one on the outskirts of Rathfarnham that is up on the path. At the junction at the top of the hill, a motorist started to drive straight across my path nearly knocking me down. She them started f'ing and blinding that I shouldn't have cycled across the juction even though I had a green light as I was 'on the path'. I now cycle on the road as I think it is too dangerous to risk being knocked down at this junction, never mind the traffic coming from my direction who might think I don't have the right to cross the junction either as I am on the path.

Another example I can think of is before that along the dodder where the lane is beside the pedestrian path as you describe as a point where cyclists should use a cycle lane mounted above the road. At different points, the pedestrian path (signposted) splits and goes down to the dodder and then comes back up beside the cycle path. Quite often, pedestrians instead decide to walk along the cycle path. This forces me to slow down shouting (trying my best not be aggressive) 'excuse me' so they'll move in to let me past without me coming to a complete stop. Also, at these points, I somtimes come across cyclists cycling slower than me and there is no room to overtake safely and on skinny tyres is too risky to jump down off the curb risking a punture. So I cycle on the road here too.

Coming down the N11 into Donnybrook towards town at that old church (can't remeber name) there is a cycle lane above the path which is also beside the pedestrian path. Along this stretch there are little entries into houses and some tiny estates?!? where there are big lips on the cycle lane as it meets the road, again risking punctures. Towards the lights, there is a bus stop which takes up the pedestrian part of the path. At this bus stop you again have to slow down as somebody could walk around the back of the bus stop and you risk knocking them down.

These are three examples I have personally experienced and there are others. I'm sure others posters here who cycle different routes can give you examples of others. So the next time you see me or another cyclist on the road when a cycling lane is provided on the path, please don't think 'he's "deliberately giving motorists the two fingers"', as it may well be for my/their safety.

I do sometimes use cycle lane on paths when they avoid these kind of problems. I must also commend the new type of ones being put in, for example in Churchtown where at all junctions they come down to road level at junctions making cyclist part of the traffic which feels much safer as I think motorists are more likely to respect their right of way.