Estate agent wants copies of our passports - is this the norm?

syklops · 19-02-2014 1:59pm #1

I've been renting in Ireland and abroad for over a decade and this is a new one on me. Is it common now? We have already paid the deposit and the first months rent(we moved in last night), they have the details for my bank and we supplied as requested a reference from our previous landlord and a reference from work. I've nothing to hide but I feel a bit uncomfortable giving that information to someone else to store "on file".

I'd appreciate thoughts on the matter.

snubbleste · 19-02-2014 2:06pm

No.

syklops · 19-02-2014 2:06pm

snubbleste wrote: »

No.

So have I a right to feel uncomfortable?

djimi · 19-02-2014 2:09pm

I dont even have a passport. Its not the norm, and there isnt much that they can do about it if you say no.

miezekatze · 19-02-2014 2:22pm

We had to provide copies of our IDs in order to get our last apartment. The agent was going a bit OTT at the time with regards to references and all that though.

syklops · 19-02-2014 2:23pm

miezekatze wrote: »

We had to provide copies of our IDs in order to get our last apartment. The agent was going a bit OTT at the time with regards to references and all that though.

Ours was a bit OTT as well. Any chance its the same agent?

runawaybishop · 19-02-2014 2:26pm

Have you signed the lease?

miezekatze · 19-02-2014 2:27pm

syklops wrote: »

Ours was a bit OTT as well. Any chance its the same agent?

It was Hooke & Macdonald in my case, that was about 5 years ago though.

syklops · 19-02-2014 2:27pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Have you signed the lease?

Yes.

runawaybishop · 19-02-2014 2:28pm

syklops wrote: »

Yes.

Grand so, tell them to bugger off.

clumsyklutz · 19-02-2014 2:31pm

The last two places I have rented I have had to give some form of photo id, didn't matter what, just had to be something with my picture on it. I would have thought it was quite normal, I don't really see what the issue is.

Rasmus · 19-02-2014 2:51pm

Any official photo ID should suffice. I wouldn't give a copy of my passport, not because the agent would be untrustworthy, but once it is out there, it's out there.

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 2:54pm

I rent out some houses.
If someone didn't give me a copy of photo ID (passport or driving licence) I wouldn't sign them up and would look for someone else.

syklops · 19-02-2014 2:55pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I rent out some houses.
If someone didn't give me a copy of photo ID (passport or driving licence) I wouldn't sign them up and would look for someone else.

ok. Whats the purpose of keeping it on file? Where does it get filed? Is it destroyed at the end of their tenancy?

Victor · 19-02-2014 2:58pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I rent out some houses.
If someone didn't give me a copy of photo ID (passport or driving licence) I wouldn't sign them up and would look for someone else.

What would be wrong with simply seeing the ID, without taking a copy?

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 3:04pm

Victor wrote: »

What would be wrong with simply seeing the ID, without taking a copy?

I like to keep all the details in a file rather than in my memory.

Tenants are less likely to do a runner/misbehave if they think that the landlord can find them easily afterwards.

However, landlords have practically zero power to do anything even if rent is not paid. It's all a charade.

syklops · 19-02-2014 3:10pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Tenants are less likely to do a runner/misbehave if they think that the landlord can find them easily afterwards.

How does having my ID or passport details enable you to find me were I to do a runner? Considering as I said, they already have a work reference from my job and a reference from my previous landlord, and they have my bank account details. What does having the passport details add to it?

Calhoun · 19-02-2014 3:11pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I like to keep all the details in a file rather than in my memory.

Tenants are less likely to do a runner/misbehave if they think that the landlord can find them easily afterwards.

However, landlords have practically zero power to do anything even if rent is not paid. It's all a charade.

How are you protecting this sensitive data? Do you destroy these records once the tenant has moved on?

djimi · 19-02-2014 3:12pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I like to keep all the details in a file rather than in my memory.

Tenants are less likely to do a runner/misbehave if they think that the landlord can find them easily afterwards.

However, landlords have practically zero power to do anything even if rent is not paid. It's all a charade.

Would you agree to a tenant asking to keep a copy of your photo ID on file, for the same reason?

Rasmus · 19-02-2014 3:12pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I like to keep all the details in a file rather than in my memory.

Tenants are less likely to do a runner/misbehave if they think that the landlord can find them easily afterwards.

However, landlords have practically zero power to do anything even if rent is not paid. It's all a charade.

Do you furnish tenants with a copy of your ID?

runawaybishop · 19-02-2014 3:13pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I rent out some houses.
If someone didn't give me a copy of photo ID (passport or driving licence) I wouldn't sign them up and would look for someone else.

OP is signed up already though. I'd have serious concerns about data security.

djimi · 19-02-2014 3:15pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

OP is signed up already though. I'd have serious concerns about data security.

As would I. Whatever about giving that sort of information to financial institutions etc, I have no assurance that my information will be stored correctly when handing it over to a private individual (be it a letting agent or a private landlord).

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 3:18pm

Rasmus wrote: »

Do you furnish tenants with a copy of your ID?

They've never asked

bumper234 · 19-02-2014 3:19pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

They've never asked

WOULD you furnish a tenant with a photocopy of your passport if asked?

Skatedude · 19-02-2014 3:22pm

No way i would give anyone a copy of my drivers licence or passport without knowing what security is in place to protect MY information. will it be secured or available to other without my knowledge? Will all the copies been destroyed later. are they scanned into a pc and if so what standard of encryption and data protection will you be using etc.

I'd have no problem showing a landlord my passport etc and confirming my details, but a copy can be used in so many dodgy ways.

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 3:24pm

bumper234 wrote: »

WOULD you furnish a tenant with a photocopy of your passport if asked?

No

bumper234 · 19-02-2014 3:27pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No

Bit hypocritical of you then

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I rent out some houses.
If someone didn't give me a copy of photo ID (passport or driving licence) I wouldn't sign them up and would look for someone else.

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 3:30pm

bumper234 wrote: »

Bit hypocritical of you then

If the prospective tenant doesn't like the terms then they are free to search elsewhere.

bumper234 · 19-02-2014 3:31pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If the prospective tenant doesn't like the terms then they are free to search elsewhere.

true, you also possibly lose out on good tenants due to that attitude. Heads up....if someone is going to do a runner they usually don't care what info you have on them.

Zillah · 19-02-2014 3:33pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No

Bit of a joke then, aren't ya?

OP: You've already moved in and signed a lease, they can't go making additional demands now, especially if they can't make assurances as to how the data will be protected. I would tell them you are not comfortable giving scans of any confidential ID, but that you'd be happy to show it to them.

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 3:34pm

bumper234 wrote: »

true, you also possibly lose out on good tenants due to that attitude. Heads up....if someone is going to do a runner they usually don't care what info you have on them.

I have never had anyone say that they would not give a copy of their ID.

Thank you for the heads up - it might come in useful some day.

foggy_lad · 19-02-2014 3:34pm

Insisting on such things as passport copies etc on top of references from past landlords and work is just a form of intimidation practised by some landlords and agents much like years ago when student bedsit slumlords were often guards and would arrive in uniform on rent days to bolster their authority over their lowly tenants.

Rasmus · 19-02-2014 3:34pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If the prospective tenant doesn't like the terms then they are free to search elsewhere.

And they will. After all you will have given them a happy escape from a dodgy situation.

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 3:37pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Insisting on such things as passport copies etc on top of references from past landlords and work is just a form of intimidation practised by some landlords and agents much like years ago when student bedsit slumlords were often guards and would arrive in uniform on rent days to bolster their authority over their lowly tenants.

I'm guessing that you are a tenant and not a landlord.
Could be wrong though!

The Spider · 19-02-2014 3:38pm

bumper234 wrote: »

true, you also possibly lose out on good tenants due to that attitude. Heads up....if someone is going to do a runner they usually don't care what info you have on them.

Shortage of rentals in Dublin, so tennants who didn't supply their id would be disregarded. I'd never ask to see it, but then again I'd only rent to a certain type of person.

Rental shortage landlords rules, rental oversupply tenants rules, simples!

djimi · 19-02-2014 4:04pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I have never had anyone say that they would not give a copy of their ID.

Thank you for the heads up - it might come in useful some day.

You still havent answered how you guarantee the security of such documents when given to you? Are you fully to speed on data protection laws? Do you know how to handle such information securely and legally?

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 4:10pm

djimi wrote: »

You still havent answered how you guarantee the security of such documents when given to you? Are you fully to speed on data protection laws? Do you know how to handle such information securely and legally?

If the tenants have a serious problem with me then they can get on to the PRTB and they'll be with them just as soon as they can...

If prospective tenants started asking for this/that before they even signed the lease I'd run them. End of.

bumper234 · 19-02-2014 4:13pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If the tenants have a serious problem with me then they can get on to the PRTB and they'll be with them just as soon as they can...

If prospective tenants started asking for this/that before they even signed the lease I'd run them. End of.

You sound charming, Thankfully there are not too many of you around with this unreasonable attitude.

djimi · 19-02-2014 4:28pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If the tenants have a serious problem with me then they can get on to the PRTB and they'll be with them just as soon as they can...

If prospective tenants started asking for this/that before they even signed the lease I'd run them. End of.

Im not sure that you appreciate how potentially serious an issue data protection is. If you run afoul of data protection laws its not a matter for the PRTB; youll find yourself facing some serious charges and not just a slap on the wrist from the PRTB.

If you dont know what you are doing with regards data protection and ensuring the security of the data which you request then you would be well advised to stop collecting such information.

Santa Cruz · 19-02-2014 4:30pm

djimi wrote: »

I dont even have a passport. Its not the norm, and there isnt much that they can do about it if you say no.

Yes there is. They needn't rent the property to you. I don't see what your problem is. The banks take a copy when you open an account. Isn't there as much risk with them as with a landlord

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 4:32pm

bumper234 wrote: »

You sound charming, Thankfully there are not too many of you around with this unreasonable attitude.

It's not show friends
It's called show business

syklops · 19-02-2014 4:38pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Yes there is. They needn't rent the property to you. I don't see what your problem is. The banks take a copy when you open an account. Isn't there as much risk with them as with a landlord

Banks have rigorous controls on personal information. A one-man estate agents outfit is not going to have anything like the controls in place. I just know my passport scan is going to lie unencrypted on her windows based work computer for god knows how long.

runawaybishop · 19-02-2014 4:38pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Yes there is. They needn't rent the property to you. I don't see what your problem is. The banks take a copy when you open an account. Isn't there as much risk with them as with a landlord

Banks adhere to data protection laws and regulations. Joe landlord probably doesn't and will dump a copy of your passport in his bin when he doesn't need it.

brownej · 19-02-2014 4:41pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Yes there is. They needn't rent the property to you. I don't see what your problem is. The banks take a copy when you open an account. Isn't there as much risk with them as with a landlord

Banks have data protection policies and a full department to ensure compliance. You agree to their data protection policiies explicitly when you interact with them. (It's that box you tick saying you read and agree to the terms and conditions)

As they request the information they become a "data controller" for the purposes of the data protection legislation.
I can't see how any landlord requesting this sort of information from prospective tenants would be treated any different. It is business afterall.

It is up to the landlord to understand all the implications of doing business in this way.

listermint · 19-02-2014 4:51pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If the tenants have a serious problem with me then they can get on to the PRTB and they'll be with them just as soon as they can...

If prospective tenants started asking for this/that before they even signed the lease I'd run them. End of.

Its abundantly clear you literally do not have a clue what you are doing. You are obviously in breach of data protection laws which have come to the fore in the last 3 years alone.

Realistically you need to go and educate yourself on this OR stop asking for copies of official documents when you do not have any legitimate case for them. Of course you are entitled to ask to see them. But you have no case for their storage, and id garner have no compliance in their storage either.

Its actually both amusing and scary in equal measure how blase you are coming across about individuals official documents.

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 4:58pm

listermint wrote: »

Its abundantly clear you literally do not have a clue what you are doing. You are obviously in breach of data protection laws which have come to the fore in the last 3 years alone.

Realistically you need to go and educate yourself on this OR stop asking for copies of official documents when you do not have any legitimate case for them. Of course you are entitled to ask to see them. But you have no case for their storage, and id garner have no compliance in their storage either.

Its actually both amusing and scary in equal measure how blase you are coming across about individuals official documents.

Thank you so much for your advice on this matter.
I'll file it in the appropriate section

djimi · 19-02-2014 5:00pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Yes there is. They needn't rent the property to you. I don't see what your problem is. The banks take a copy when you open an account. Isn't there as much risk with them as with a landlord

Not even remotely.

I trust that a financial institute or the likes will know what they are doing when I provide them with my personal information. I have no such assurances when it comes to dealing with Joe Soap who I have just met from an advert on Daft.

ZeroThreat · 19-02-2014 5:01pm

djimi wrote: »

Im not sure that you appreciate how potentially serious an issue data protection is. If you run afoul of data protection laws its not a matter for the PRTB; youll find yourself facing some serious charges and not just a slap on the wrist from the PRTB.

If you dont know what you are doing with regards data protection and ensuring the security of the data which you request then you would be well advised to stop collecting such information.

This thread just goes to show the sort of cowboys involved in the rental business in Ireland...

snubbleste · 19-02-2014 5:20pm

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I rent out some houses.
If someone didn't give me a copy of photo ID (passport or driving licence) I wouldn't sign them up and would look for someone else.

Can you clarify - do you provide them a copy of your ID and proof that you own the property?

Barely Hedged · 19-02-2014 5:28pm

listermint wrote: »

But you have no case for their storage, and id garner have no compliance in their storage either.

If a landlord took a copy of the passport there would have to be agreement from the passport holder therefore they can store it for future use if they need. The passport holder can only enquire periodically that the information is kept up to date and to tell the landlord not to offer the information to third parties.

Rasmus · 19-02-2014 5:30pm

snubbleste wrote: »

Can you clarify - do you provide them a copy of your ID and proof that you own the property?

So many people don't think of this issue when renting. It may seem far-fetched, but this actually happened to me when I was very young. One of the first flats I rented turned out to be owned by someone else. The real owner let himself in one day unexpectedly (he lived abroad or something) and almost had a heart-attack to see a few young ones living there. The guy that rented out his home to us was a caretaker.

Estate agent wants copies of our passports - is this the norm?

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